POST GAME // BRADY JAILHOUSE RAPES BEARS IN 51-23 MASSACRE

G08 · Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:27 pm

I can't point to a 95+ rated QB, top 5 or 6 in touchdowns, and assign blame when our defense is 29th in the league in points allowed.

That's just me though...

Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:01 pm

DaDitka wrote:Sick.....

Pete Damilatis ‏@PFF_Pete 1m1 minute ago
Tom Brady was pressured on TWO of 35 drop backs vs CHI. Patriots O-line deserves a ton of credit.

CUTLER MUST GO! HE'S A BUM. A TURNOVER MACHINE!

Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:04 pm

BlackEngineer wrote:All I continue to hear is all this close minded thinking. If the Defense is bad, then the Defensive Coordinator sucks. If the Defense is good, then the Defensive Coordinator is a guru. Last year Offense finishes 2nd in scoring, Trestman is a genius mastermind. Trestman is an Offensive "guru". This year Offense struggles, Trestman sucks, Trestman doesn't know Offense, Trestman can't coach.

The Offensive Line is struggling, must mean Aaron Kromer is terrible. Need to fire that guy too!
The Cornerbacks and Linebackers are struggling. Fire Jon Hoke and Reggie Herring right along with Tucker! They can't coach AT ALL! JUST Terrible. 30-40+ years of coaching experience. WHO CARES, THEY CAN"T COACH!

This is nothing but the typical Fan mindset.

The Falcons are going through the exact same thing. Their bad Defense must mean Mike Nolan is a terrible Defensive coach. Who cares that he coached successful Defenses in his previous stints. Bad Defense = Bad Coach.

All I'm trying to do is make everyone realize that football is not so black and white. There is never one reason why a particular unit is bad or good. That is why there are some years where a particular Defensive Coordinator can coach a top ranked Defense and there are other years that the SAME Coordinator can field a bottom ranked Defense.

Instead of attributing success or failure on a given Defense because of simple Coaching ineptitude, how about we look DEEPER into WHY a unit isn't performing at a high level. It's not making excuses, it's just identifying the problem.
Blaming Mel Tucker for the Defense isn't identifying the problem; It's creating a scapegoat. A sacrificial lamb that can make a problem seem simpler by believing that he is the cause of it all. Same with Cutler. Has he made his mistakes. Yes he has. But to place him as the prime reason the Offense is under-performing is again, not identifying the true problem.

If that's what fans want. So be it. Creating scapegoats is nothing new. I'm just not going to sit hear and turn a blind eye to obvious factors of poor performance and instead blame coaching because it's the easy thing to do.

thats all well and good, but Tucker's BEST defense was ranked in the low teens. And he's never been out of the bottom 10 in sacks. He's never had a successful defense like Nolan has. You can only blame personnel for so long.

DaDitka · Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:08 pm

wab wrote:
DaDitka wrote:Sick.....

CUTLER MUST GO! HE'S A BUM. A TURNOVER MACHINE!

Yeah...I love all the people on the radio today talking about the 'two turnovers again'....did you watch the fucking game?

The play should have been blown dead on the fumble and the INT was a Hail Mary.

He did have a pick overturned by a flag and he does need to be more careful with the ball, but his play isn't this teams biggest problem right now.

If you expected him to put this team on his back and carry them....shame on you. Unfortunately, that kind of the way this team is built and that's simply not going to work.

Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:15 pm

In fairness the team is built on the passing game...not necessarily Cutler himself. It's built on him, Forte, AJ, Marsh, and TBU collectively.

But I do agree in part with Trestman that there are things that are fucking up the offensive imbalance. Penalties are one. The defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down is another. But so is Trestman's reluctance to change his playcalling until it's too late. He sticks to his guns hoping the defense will fucking do something...and then when it doesn't...it's too late.

It's almost like Trestman comes out firing because he's trying to build a lead to protect the defense from imploding.

DaDitka · Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:25 pm

wab wrote:In fairness the team is built on the passing game...not necessarily Cutler himself. It's built on him, Forte, AJ, Marsh, and TBU collectively.

Yes, but it's Jay's responsibility to get them the balls. When he's 'off' there is nothing they can do. If one of them is 'off' he can just go to someone else.

By 'building this team on Jay' I was referencing the team as a whole..not just their offensive identity. Jay is the face of the franchise, they talk up his leadership, they lean heavily on the passing game, and they expect the offense to carry the team.

I've defended Jay plenty...but he's a guy you win with...not because of. He'll have his moments no doubt, but he can't be the 'identity' of your team.

Run the ball more/better, and play better defense and Jay just being Jay will be good enough.

wab wrote:But I do agree in part with Trestman that there are things that are fucking up the offensive imbalance. Penalties are one. The defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down is another. But so is Trestman's reluctance to change his playcalling until it's too late. He sticks to his guns hoping the defense will fucking do something...and then when it doesn't...it's too late.

It's almost like Trestman comes out firing because he's trying to build a lead to protect the defense from imploding.

Yeah...we lead the league in passing playcalls on first down and we're not converting them..it's putting us behind the chains, limiting your ability to run the ball, and in the end leading to less snaps and loosing the time of possession battle.

Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:27 pm

I believe I heard that we also lead the league in penalties negating first downs but I could have heard that wrong

DaDitka · Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:32 pm

In darts, I have a term I call the 'pacifier effect'. What that means is when you take a weaker player and pair them with the best player as their teammate (give them a pacifier) they feel far less pressure to play well and have far more confidence in their win probability, and you know what else happens....they play much - much better.

That's Jay IMO

When you lean on him too much...he tends to press and get's frustrated. When he's just out there 'playing' he can turn in incredible performances. Put the ball in 22's gut and play a little D and you'll see good Jay far more often then not.

BlackEngineer · Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:53 pm

DaDitka wrote:In darts, I have a term I call the 'pacifier effect'. What that means is when you take a weaker player and pair them with the best player as their teammate (give them a pacifier) they feel far less pressure to play well and have far more confidence in their win probability, and you know what else happens....they play much - much better.

That's Jay IMO

When you lean on him too much...he tends to press and get's frustrated. When he's just out there 'playing' he can turn in incredible performances. Put the ball in 22's gut and play a little D and you'll see good Jay far more often then not.

Now tell me how many Quarterbacks does this NOT apply to. I'll bet that all the Quarterbacks you name are all future HOFers.

Boris13c · Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:11 pm

wab wrote:In fairness the team is built on the passing game...not necessarily Cutler himself. It's built on him, Forte, AJ, Marsh, and TBU collectively.

But I do agree in part with Trestman that there are things that are fucking up the offensive imbalance. Penalties are one. The defense's inability to get off the field on 3rd down is another. But so is Trestman's reluctance to change his playcalling until it's too late. He sticks to his guns hoping the defense will fucking do something...and then when it doesn't...it's too late.

It's almost like Trestman comes out firing because he's trying to build a lead to protect the defense from imploding.

yeah, the offense is built for pass first, then run ... which isn't a bad philosophy especially when you look at the weapons on offense

but that philosophy, or any other, is just talk if the execution isn't there to back things up ... and it is the entire offense that is (or seems to be) quite generic and predictable ... Bears opponents have come right out and said they were pretty confident where the Bears were going with the ball based on their formations ... the game results seem to indicate those opponents were telling the truth

I simply remain baffled how this offense is not more productive ... but if they are telegraphing their intent to defenses, then at least that is now less of a mystery

as for the defense, they have shown what they are, and seem to be as easy to read by opposing QB's as a beginning grade school reader is to someone with a PhD in literature

generic in philosophy, underachieving with results ... doesn't spell winning football to me

DaDitka · Mon Oct 27, 2014 3:13 pm

BlackEngineer wrote:
DaDitka wrote:In darts, I have a term I call the 'pacifier effect'. What that means is when you take a weaker player and pair them with the best player as their teammate (give them a pacifier) they feel far less pressure to play well and have far more confidence in their win probability, and you know what else happens....they play much - much better.

That's Jay IMO

When you lean on him too much...he tends to press and get's frustrated. When he's just out there 'playing' he can turn in incredible performances. Put the ball in 22's gut and play a little D and you'll see good Jay far more often then not.
Now tell me how many Quarterbacks does this NOT apply to. I'll bet that all the Quarterbacks you name are all future HOFers.

Totally agree and have said as much a million times over the last three or four weeks. There are the top 6 or 7 (Manning, Brady, Rodgers, Luck, Brees, Wilson and probably Rivers for now) and then the next 10 or so are all pretty interchangeable (Romo, Big Ben, Dalton, Ryan, Flacco, Foles, Eli, Kap, Jay). You want to call Jay #8 or #17 I really can't argue either way. Personally, I'd have Romo 8th and then we can discuss Jay or Ryan....some my have Ben and Eli with their 'rings' higher.......either way....the point is that there are very few QBs that can carry their team, pissing and moaning about Jay not being one will get us no where. Most team have to operate without such a QB and many teams even manage to win it all without one.

Funkster · Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:54 pm

I am a big Cutler fan, he has everything you want in a QB. His stats this year can be misleading but some of his lack in performance is play calling and some of it is him. I'am starting to question Cutler as the Bears QB but that question leads me to another question, is there a better available QB? I say no. Cutler's replacement will have to come via the draft. I say love him or hate him,Cutler will be our QB for atleast 2 more seasons.

DD, no way is Wilson a top 10 QB. Only reason he's got a ring is a historical defense, period.

DaDitka · Tue Oct 28, 2014 2:57 pm

Funkster wrote: DD, no way is Wilson a top 10 QB. Only reason he's got a ring is a historical defense, period.

Clearly you haven't watched him play this year? You're right...he's not top ten, he's easily top 7.

I agree with you about last year, but dude is straight balling this year. Hell, he had 300 yards passing and 100 yards rushing in the same game three weeks ago.

DaDitka · Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:02 pm

Russell is completing 65.2 % of his passes and has thrown 11 TDs against just 3 ints.

They may not ask him to spin it as often as a lot of other QBs, but when they do...he's doing it as good....er.....better then just about everyone else. Throw in his 362 yards rushing and 3 TDs on the ground and he's flat out a match-up nightmare.

Funkster · Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:08 pm

I live in Seattle, I get to see him play every Sunday. His TD to int ratio just like Cutler stats is alittle misleading. He has gotten VERY lucky on atleast 6 "should be" interceptions. If I had a choice, I would take a Dalton or Tannehill over Wilson but that's me.

DaDitka · Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:11 pm

Funkster wrote:I live in Seattle, I get to see him play every Sunday. His TD to int ratio just like Cutler stats is alittle misleading. He has gotten VERY lucky on atleast 6 "should be" interceptions. If I had a choice, I would take a Dalton or Tannehill over Wilson but that's me.

Yeah I love Jay and B is my favorite Bear, but I'd give both of them and my left nut for Wilson...but as you said, that's just me.

Funkster · Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:23 pm

I guess call me old school but look at the top QBs year after year, they're drop back, in the pocket passer. Fads come and go but at the end of the day, the Brady's,Aikmens and Montana's of the NFL are going to win you multiple championships, not the Cunningham's or Vick's. This is historically proven and this has nothing to do with race.

DaDitka · Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:29 pm

Funkster wrote:I guess call me old school but look at the top QBs year after year, they're drop back, in the pocket passer. Fads come and go but at the end of the day, the Brady's,Aikmens and Montana's of the NFL are going to win you multiple championships, not the Cunningham's or Vick's. This is historically proven and this has nothing to do with race.

Dude, I totally agree. But I think Wilson is a pocket QB with wheels. He reminds me a ton of Steve Young.

Funkster · Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:35 pm

Wilson is one of the best when he's rolling outside of the pocket but Wilson is at his weakest inside the pocket. IMO, Luck is the best of both worlds.

Otis Day · Tue Oct 28, 2014 3:52 pm

I like Wilson as well. I think his int % is much lower than Luck's. Don't get me wrong I like Luck as well, but there is just something about Wilson. I am shocked as hell he has been as impressive as he has been. never would have thought coming out of Wisconsin.

Boris13c · Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:00 pm

Otis Day wrote:I like Wilson as well. I think his int % is much lower than Luck's. Don't get me wrong I like Luck as well, but there is just something about Wilson. I am shocked as hell he has been as impressive as he has been. never would have thought coming out of Wisconsin.

Russell Wilson is my hero ... here is a guy about the same size I am succeeding at one of the most challenging positions in the NFL ... plus, he came to his first training camp prepared to do everything possible and his work ethic won him that job, not his draft status or contract size

and I certainly don't consider him a fad ... he is intelligent, mobile, and with a quality throwing arm and is one of the top tier guys in spite of his lack of prototype physical size

Tue Oct 28, 2014 4:04 pm

DaDitka wrote:
Funkster wrote:I guess call me old school but look at the top QBs year after year, they're drop back, in the pocket passer. Fads come and go but at the end of the day, the Brady's,Aikmens and Montana's of the NFL are going to win you multiple championships, not the Cunningham's or Vick's. This is historically proven and this has nothing to do with race.
Dude, I totally agree. But I think Wilson is a pocket QB with wheels. He reminds me a ton of Steve Young.

This.

Pure pocket passers are a thing of the past. Guys with the skillset of Wilson are the future. Hell, even Cutler has a similar skillset, but his arm is just as much of a curse as it is a blessing. If he didn't have a cannon, he wouldn't feel compelled to make throws that 90% of the QB's in this league wouldn't dream of trying.

There is a reason guys like Tannehill go high (and for the record, I think Tannehill is a good QB). Every QB that has gone in the 1st 3 rounds in the last...oh...3 years, is a guy who has the ability to make throws from the pocket as well as on the run, and also can pull the ball down and run with it.

These guys are different than players like Cunningham, Vick, and McNabb from the past. Those guys were runners first and passers second. Only when they lost their wheels did they learn how to maneuver the pocket and make throws in it.

Guys like Luck and even Griffin (when healthy) look to throw first and run second.

Funkster · Tue Oct 28, 2014 10:41 pm

Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson is a very good young up and coming QB, but I think he has a long way to go before he can be inside the top 10, he just doesn't have the body of work or great statiscal numbers. You have 5 out of the top 20 all time passing yard leaders still active and playing well. You have 5 out of the top 20 career TD leaders still active and playing well,you have 10 active QBs out of the top 20 for career completion percentage,you have 5 out of the top 20 for game winning drives and 6 active QBs out of top the 20 for career comebacks and not one of the QBs name is Russell Wilson.

IMO as long as guys named
Brady
Manning
Brees
Big Ben
Rodgers
E.Manning
Rivers
Romo
Palmer
Cutler
Are still playing, these young QBS have some work to do. This is not to say that they can't be on this list, it's just to say that there is still work to be done and most of these QBs are in their 3rd or 4th season.

Boris13c · Wed Oct 29, 2014 8:10 am

Funkster wrote:Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson is a very good young up and coming QB, but I think he has a long way to go before he can be inside the top 10

didn't realize this was a career comparison game you're playing ... so no, Wilson's career at this point cannot match up against the guys with 10+ years

so ok, I'll qualify my response - in 2013/2014, Russell Wilson is a top tier QB (he's 5 on my list) ... he has the potential to remain so as his career progresses

IE · Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:12 pm

Funkster wrote:Don't get me wrong, I think Wilson is a very good young up and coming QB, but I think he has a long way to go before he can be inside the top 10, he just doesn't have the body of work or great statiscal numbers. You have 5 out of the top 20 all time passing yard leaders still active and playing well. You have 5 out of the top 20 career TD leaders still active and playing well,you have 10 active QBs out of the top 20 for career completion percentage,you have 5 out of the top 20 for game winning drives and 6 active QBs out of top the 20 for career comebacks and not one of the QBs name is Russell Wilson.

IMO as long as guys named
Brady
Manning
Brees
Big Ben
Rodgers
E.Manning
Rivers
Romo
Palmer
Cutler
Are still playing, these young QBS have some work to do. This is not to say that they can't be on this list, it's just to say that there is still work to be done and most of these QBs are in their 3rd or 4th season.

Jay Cutler has done nothing - absolutely nothing - to be on this list. Let's please be real, and stop including him on any list of top QBs.

Embarassing.

G08 · Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:16 pm

The hatred for a 95.9 rated QB here is staggering.

IE · Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:43 pm

I don't hate him. I actually kinda like Jay as a person from what I can tell. I don't have any issues with his demeanor or anything like that. I think the people complaining about his body language and jerk face are just stupid.

At the same time, I've concluded and now strongly believe that he really isn't a good NFL QB. He's completely inconsistent, and can't be trusted. He makes bad decisions, and is too careless with the ball for my taste. I'm not sure how that can be measured, but I can see it with my own eyes.

Maybe the stat is, "how many tears fall into my beers when the Bears are playing the Packers". lol

The ratings stats and big arm crap... is now meaningless to me. Checkdown Charlie can go sit on the bench for all I care. The only thing that matters is friggin win something big FAR more regularly, and stop being a dumbass. Can a 31 year old stop being a complete dumbass? I personally think "no".

G08 · Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:12 pm

Checkdown Ch.... I can't even.

KOP_Snake · Fri Oct 31, 2014 8:19 pm

The thing that pisses me off most about Cutler is that he hijacked my team and made them ravage our defense and give him all the weapons and coaching he could ever ask for and is proceeding to shit the bed with it.

Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:28 pm

IE wrote:I don't hate him. I actually kinda like Jay as a person from what I can tell. I don't have any issues with his demeanor or anything like that. I think the people complaining about his body language and jerk face are just stupid.

At the same time, I've concluded and now strongly believe that he really isn't a good NFL QB. He's completely inconsistent, and can't be trusted. He makes bad decisions, and is too careless with the ball for my taste. I'm not sure how that can be measured, but I can see it with my own eyes.

Maybe the stat is, "how many tears fall into my beers when the Bears are playing the Packers". lol

The ratings stats and big arm crap... is now meaningless to me. Checkdown Charlie can go sit on the bench for all I care. The only thing that matters is friggin win something big FAR more regularly, and stop being a dumbass. Can a 31 year old stop being a complete dumbass? I personally think "no".

You're better than this bruh.