The "I've seen enough, start Trubisky" Thread

For all things Chicago Bears

Moderator: wab

User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

malk wrote:I'm ambivalent as to whether he sits or starts but does anyone have a theory as to why sitting is a good thing rather than scant anecdotal evidence?
It's all going to be anecdotal. I will list a few of my reasons. The best argument in my opinion is the question, "does sitting hurt his chance at long term success?"

I think the most important reason to sit, is the ability to study/learn the game from a distance. Qb is the most mentally demanding spot on a roster. Hense Joe Montana out preformed Jeff George who has a much greater skill set. Taking a step back to learn the birds eye view I think would set him up for success.

Practicing good habits. I have heard coaches say 3,000 perfect reps to gain perfect muscle memory. While arbitrary in definition it holds some truth. Trubisky needs reps, more importantly good reps. Not face bashed in reps.

Leadership has multiple portions. Being a subject matter expert, as a qb, sure as heck is one.

I will trust the staff on this, unless it's painfully obvious they cave into pressures either way.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

malk wrote:I'm ambivalent as to whether he sits or starts but does anyone have a theory as to why sitting is a good thing rather than scant anecdotal evidence?
He just has *so* much to learn, IMO. If he was coming out of a Pro-style offense, I would be a little less concerned about throwing him to the wolves week 1.

I also have questions about the starting O-line at this point with Long still being dinged and Leno playing like shit last week.

For me, logically, I think having him sit at least 4-5 games gives him the chance to go through everything that an NFL starting QB has to do, except for getting all the reps in practice and playing in the game (two huge things, I get it). With how much the kid progressed in college by not playing (strength, conditioning, learning the playbook, etc) I think he knows how to develop without touching the field.

Best comp I would have is Aaron Rodgers, they tore him down and re-built him mechanically which I think is what helped make his career.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

G08 wrote:
malk wrote:I'm ambivalent as to whether he sits or starts but does anyone have a theory as to why sitting is a good thing rather than scant anecdotal evidence?
He just has *so* much to learn, IMO. If he was coming out of a Pro-style offense, I would be a little less concerned about throwing him to the wolves week 1.

I also have questions about the starting O-line at this point with Long still being dinged and Leno playing like shit last week.

For me, logically, I think having him sit at least 4-5 games gives him the chance to go through everything that an NFL starting QB has to do, except for getting all the reps in practice and playing in the game (two huge things, I get it). With how much the kid progressed in college by not playing (strength, conditioning, learning the playbook, etc) I think he knows how to develop without touching the field.

Best comp I would have is Aaron Rodgers, they tore him down and re-built him mechanically which I think is what helped make his career.
The Bears don't need to change Trubisky's throwing motion, and he doesn't have a HOF QB playing ahead of him.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

Adipost wrote:
G08 wrote:
malk wrote:I'm ambivalent as to whether he sits or starts but does anyone have a theory as to why sitting is a good thing rather than scant anecdotal evidence?
He just has *so* much to learn, IMO. If he was coming out of a Pro-style offense, I would be a little less concerned about throwing him to the wolves week 1.

I also have questions about the starting O-line at this point with Long still being dinged and Leno playing like shit last week.

For me, logically, I think having him sit at least 4-5 games gives him the chance to go through everything that an NFL starting QB has to do, except for getting all the reps in practice and playing in the game (two huge things, I get it). With how much the kid progressed in college by not playing (strength, conditioning, learning the playbook, etc) I think he knows how to develop without touching the field.

Best comp I would have is Aaron Rodgers, they tore him down and re-built him mechanically which I think is what helped make his career.
The Bears don't need to change Trubisky's throwing motion, and he doesn't have a HOF QB playing ahead of him.
True, but if you go back and watch the Denver game, you can see his footwork is still scattershot.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
Mikefive
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 278 times

G08 wrote:He just has *so* much to learn, IMO. If he was coming out of a Pro-style offense, I would be a little less concerned about throwing him to the wolves week 1.
The proof of this right there for all to see in the fact that they gave him almost ZERO full field reads--in a preseason game that doesn't count against a bunch of guys who mostly won't make NFL rosters! That they didn't feel comfortable enough with that (understandably so from what I saw in TC practice) is a clear demonstration of what he can't do right now. And that's quite a lot!
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
staleystarch
Assistant Coach
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:08 pm

mmmc_35 wrote:
malk wrote:I'm ambivalent as to whether he sits or starts but does anyone have a theory as to why sitting is a good thing rather than scant anecdotal evidence?
It's all going to be anecdotal. I will list a few of my reasons. The best argument in my opinion is the question, "does sitting hurt his chance at long term success?"

I think the most important reason to sit, is the ability to study/learn the game from a distance. Qb is the most mentally demanding spot on a roster. Hense Joe Montana out preformed Jeff George who has a much greater skill set. Taking a step back to learn the birds eye view I think would set him up for success.

Practicing good habits. I have heard coaches say 3,000 perfect reps to gain perfect muscle memory. While arbitrary in definition it holds some truth. Trubisky needs reps, more importantly good reps. Not face bashed in reps.

Leadership has multiple portions. Being a subject matter expert, as a qb, sure as heck is one.

I will trust the staff on this, unless it's painfully obvious they cave into pressures either way.
It's all anecdotal no matter what side of the fence you sit on. I am kinda straddling it. I think I do have trust the staff, because lately no GM has called me asking my opinion. Here I can give an opinion :D One can give examples of those who waited and those who sat. To balance out the Montana example I could give Dan Marino who started the 6th game of his rookie year and stepped out there pretty much a fully formed Dan Marino. On the other hand Dan Fouts sucked for 3 years then enter Don Coryell and Fouts begins to play like a HOFer. Aikman looked horrible playing as a Rookie. John Elway went out onto the field, I don't remember if it was the play, and tried to take the snap from his guard. You don't want to send a guy out there clueless, but at a certain time a QB will have to learn under fire. Every player is different, some need to sit some don't, to be honest I am not qualified to say with Trubisky. I would like to see him this year but that is not up to me.
"We don’t know exactly what we’re doing” -- John Fox
User avatar
Otis Day
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8061
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:43 pm
Location: Armpit of IL.
Has thanked: 120 times
Been thanked: 306 times

My opinion, I have not seen enough out of either, Glennon or Trubs, to say one needs to start over the other. It was one pre-season game, Glennon, not so good in his time and Trubs, pretty damn good in his time. Still pre-season game #1, I make no judgements on anyone.

Give both some time, but no matter who we think should start, Glennon is going to and that is written in stone. Pace brought him here for it and I don't think it will change unless an injury sidelines him.
User avatar
staleystarch
Assistant Coach
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:08 pm

G08 wrote:
Adipost wrote:
G08 wrote:
malk wrote:I'm ambivalent as to whether he sits or starts but does anyone have a theory as to why sitting is a good thing rather than scant anecdotal evidence?
He just has *so* much to learn, IMO. If he was coming out of a Pro-style offense, I would be a little less concerned about throwing him to the wolves week 1.

I also have questions about the starting O-line at this point with Long still being dinged and Leno playing like shit last week.

For me, logically, I think having him sit at least 4-5 games gives him the chance to go through everything that an NFL starting QB has to do, except for getting all the reps in practice and playing in the game (two huge things, I get it). With how much the kid progressed in college by not playing (strength, conditioning, learning the playbook, etc) I think he knows how to develop without touching the field.

Best comp I would have is Aaron Rodgers, they tore him down and re-built him mechanically which I think is what helped make his career.
The Bears don't need to change Trubisky's throwing motion, and he doesn't have a HOF QB playing ahead of him.
True, but if you go back and watch the Denver game, you can see his footwork is still scattershot.
I remember another player that needed his footwork worked on. He finally had to be traded.
https://fs64sports.blogspot.com/2010/03 ... on-to.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Playing devil's advocate here
"We don’t know exactly what we’re doing” -- John Fox
User avatar
Mikefive
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 278 times

Otis Day wrote:My opinion, I have not seen enough out of either, Glennon or Trubs, to say one needs to start over the other.
That starting sentence tells me that you're looking at this in the wrong way, IMO.

Glennon is a one year placeholder. He plays and sucks and he's gone.

Trubisky is a long term investment. Play him right away, he sucks and we're stuck with him for 4 years, potentially ruining his career in the process and waste the 2nd pick in the draft unnecessarily.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
46Blitz
Assistant Coach
Posts: 545
Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:40 pm

Mikefive wrote:Good article by Adam Hoge... Hoge’s 10 Bears Things: The Easy Way To Determine When Trubisky Should Start

An excerpt...
To me, the answer isn’t all that complicated. Trubisky should start when the answer to both of the following questions is unequivocally “YES”:

Does Trubisky understand the offensive system enough to execute at a high-level in regular season games?
Does Trubisky give the Bears the best chance to win on Sundays?

If the answer to either of those questions is “no” then he shouldn’t start.
Clearly, I agree with him on this and it gets to a point that has been made before here and in the media that the best possible scenario for the Bears is that Glennon plays well and keeps Trubisky on the bench, which is exactly right.
One yes and one no, so guess he needs time...
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Mikefive wrote:The proof of this right there for all to see in the fact that they gave him almost ZERO full field reads--in a preseason game that doesn't count against a bunch of guys who mostly won't make NFL rosters! That they didn't feel comfortable enough with that (understandably so from what I saw in TC practice) is a clear demonstration of what he can't do right now. And that's quite a lot!
I completely agree. Let's let the egg hatch.
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

Sounds like he's QB3 again this week. Not sure how the breakdown will be...

Glennon maybe a quarter and a half?

Sanchez a half?

Trubisky at minimum should have the entire 2nd half
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
RING4CHI
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5235
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:45 pm
Location: Ames, IA

Honestly, what we saw from Trubisky in the first preseason game is what should have been expected.

Teams generally don't game plan the first two preseason games. It's basic offense against base defense. Little to no blitzing is done. Seeing Trubisky perform the way he did is actually a relief. It'd be concerning if he had struggled against a base defense full of guys who probably won't make Denver's rosters.
"Every team needs badasses." - Dan Hampton
BR0D1E86
MVP
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:50 am

RING4CHI wrote:Honestly, what we saw from Trubisky in the first preseason game is what should have been expected.

Teams generally don't game plan the first two preseason games. It's basic offense against base defense. Little to no blitzing is done. Seeing Trubisky perform the way he did is actually a relief. It'd be concerning if he had struggled against a base defense full of guys who probably won't make Denver's rosters.
The most meaningful thing, I thought, was that two minute drill. It wasn't total scrub time yet and he was on point. The rest of the game showed the physical and arm talent we knew existed but not much else, given the lack of defensive scheming he faced.

It was still fun to watch.
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

mmmc_35 wrote:
Mikefive wrote:The proof of this right there for all to see in the fact that they gave him almost ZERO full field reads--in a preseason game that doesn't count against a bunch of guys who mostly won't make NFL rosters! That they didn't feel comfortable enough with that (understandably so from what I saw in TC practice) is a clear demonstration of what he can't do right now. And that's quite a lot!
I completely agree. Let's let the egg hatch.
Pretty common for young QB's to only be given half field reads for large portions of their rookie seasons, even when they are the starter as it eliminates potential mistakes and simplifies the offense. Kaepernick, even when starting and going to NFC title games and superbowls was pretty much in a half field, one to two read offense.

When they lock in and get all that down then they get more thrown at them. I wouldn't put it as a measure of whether he is going to start or not.
User avatar
bearsfaninaz
Head Coach
Posts: 2303
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:33 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times

If Trubisky gets hurt because fox playing to his pride and QB positioning he should get fired immediately. Get him some dam protection and people who can get open outside Gentry
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

bearsfaninaz wrote:If Trubisky gets hurt because fox playing to his pride and QB positioning he should get fired immediately. Get him some dam protection and people who can get open outside Gentry
Oh so close to an ACL injury.
Richie
MVP
Posts: 1912
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 17 times

Yeah... Mitch is not our week 1 starter.

This fan-base is going to have to spend the next few weeks coming to terms with that. It ain't happening.
User avatar
UOK
Site Admin
Posts: 25147
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:07 am
Location: Champaign, IL
Has thanked: 108 times
Been thanked: 926 times

Eh. I'm not too worried about Trubisky. AZ's got a title-worthy defense and special teams, and their depth is as good as the Bears' is bad. I think Loggains also put him in early positions to fail, working away from his strengths of rollouts and shotgun, but admittedly this is the time of year to take him out of his comfort zone.

That said, if this results in him getting hurt because he's playing behind the 3rd and 4th offensive linemen, that's squarely on Fox and co.
Image
User avatar
beardownbilly
Journeyman
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:04 pm

Yea, Mitch definitely needs more time to progress before he's our starter, but that doesn't worry me to much.

What does worry me is Glennon consistently staring down his receivers, making it so obvious where the ball is going the advantage is clearly with the db. Secondly, when pressure breaks through he seems to try and force the ball and at one point last night into triple coverage instead of throwing it away.

I'm really worried he doesn't have the skill and we are going to play conservative football resulting in to many three and outs. I'm really interested to see how we play against Cleveland.

At least the running game looked ok.
User avatar
staleystarch
Assistant Coach
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:08 pm

Dan Hampton made an interesting observation post-game. He said he Bears offense looks to be designed for Trubisky and they are running that offense even when Glennon is under center.
"We don’t know exactly what we’re doing” -- John Fox
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

In this system if we truly are going to be running inside/outside zone, you can make a killing on play action boots/waggles. Glennon has to do it even though Mitch Trubisky is 10 times the athlete Glennon is.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

staleystarch wrote:Dan Hampton made an interesting observation post-game. He said he Bears offense looks to be designed for Trubisky and they are running that offense even when Glennon is under center.
If its designed for Trubisky, but Glennon is running it, we are fucked on Offense. Glennon may be one of the most immobile QB's I've ever seen.
Image
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
staleystarch wrote:Dan Hampton made an interesting observation post-game. He said he Bears offense looks to be designed for Trubisky and they are running that offense even when Glennon is under center.
If its designed for Trubisky, but Glennon is running it, we are fucked on Offense. Glennon may be one of the most immobile QB's I've ever seen.
It was amazing to watch how physically uncomfortable he was during those rollouts.
User avatar
Boris13c
Hall of Famer
Posts: 15958
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
Location: The Bear Nebula
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
staleystarch wrote:Dan Hampton made an interesting observation post-game. He said he Bears offense looks to be designed for Trubisky and they are running that offense even when Glennon is under center.
If its designed for Trubisky, but Glennon is running it, we are fucked on Offense. Glennon may be one of the most immobile QB's I've ever seen.


Glennon's mobility factor can be compared with Joe Namath's final year with the Rams ... difference being Glennon has not had the multiple knee surgeries making him a statue ... his statue like movements come naturally
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
User avatar
staleystarch
Assistant Coach
Posts: 506
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:08 pm

Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
staleystarch wrote:Dan Hampton made an interesting observation post-game. He said he Bears offense looks to be designed for Trubisky and they are running that offense even when Glennon is under center.
If its designed for Trubisky, but Glennon is running it, we are fucked on Offense. Glennon may be one of the most immobile QB's I've ever seen.


Glennon's mobility factor can be compared with Joe Namath's final year with the Rams ... difference being Glennon has not had the multiple knee surgeries making him a statue ... his statue like movements come naturally
Glennon reminds me of a tall Slow-Mo Bob
"We don’t know exactly what we’re doing” -- John Fox
User avatar
Gaytoe
Journeyman
Posts: 138
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:11 pm

John Fox on giving Trubisky reps with the 1s against the Titans:

"We haven't talked about that. Obviously we're very, very early (in the week). We're not even into preparation for the Titans yet. So we'll meet on that, we'll talk and we'll keep you guys posted."

He didn't rule it out at least..
User avatar
Rusty Trombagent
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7336
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Maine!
Has thanked: 555 times
Been thanked: 967 times

like hell you havent talked about it
Image
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

Image
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
BamaBear09
Assistant Coach
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 am

wab wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
staleystarch wrote:Dan Hampton made an interesting observation post-game. He said he Bears offense looks to be designed for Trubisky and they are running that offense even when Glennon is under center.
If its designed for Trubisky, but Glennon is running it, we are fucked on Offense. Glennon may be one of the most immobile QB's I've ever seen.
It was amazing to watch how physically uncomfortable he was during those rollouts.
I cringe every time he tries to turn and reset his feet to throw... and dear lord when a DE is coming clean... chuck and duck... seems to be apt at throwing into quadruple coverage...late at that... he kinda moves like a sloth...
Post Reply