No one is wrong or right yet - it's been one preseason game. I think we all just need to take a deep breath and let this play out. It was an exciting debut but that doesn't mean we should be booking our tickets to Canton in 20 years for his HOF enshrinement.pus wrote:I need to make a statement. I was a big critic when we moved up to draft the kid. I was wrong as hell - my apologies to Ryan Pace.
The "I've seen enough, start Trubisky" Thread
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So I believe he should still sit, and we have not seen enough to anoint him. Obviously I am super optimistic with what I have seen. He actually kind of moves and looks like Rodgers.
Analogy
Vasyl Lomachenko in my opinion will go down as the greatest boxer of this current generation and he has 8 wins and one loss. You tube him he is a freak.
Lomachenko had a lot of preseason work. 395 amateur wins. However in his second professional fight it was for a championship belt. He lost. Most boxers don't get the chance to recover from a loss. It will tarnish his record because he stepped up to a level to quickly and was not ready for a sly vet dog fight. He won a belt his next fight.
Analogy
Vasyl Lomachenko in my opinion will go down as the greatest boxer of this current generation and he has 8 wins and one loss. You tube him he is a freak.
Lomachenko had a lot of preseason work. 395 amateur wins. However in his second professional fight it was for a championship belt. He lost. Most boxers don't get the chance to recover from a loss. It will tarnish his record because he stepped up to a level to quickly and was not ready for a sly vet dog fight. He won a belt his next fight.
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I was bullshitting with someone and he brought up an interesting point... what do we gain from winning a game or two with Glennon? Isn't the best approach to put Trubisky out there, let him learn on the job (while hopefully winning some games)? We aren't a Super Bowl team... losses with Trubisky developing will hurt less (and get me a better draft pick, which is a highly debated subject).
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
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I'm thinking by week 6 he'll be playing unless Glennon turns it around. Which I'm just not thinking will happen
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The answer to this question should depend on the state of the offense. If the OL is playing like it played with Glennon in the first PS game, absolutely positively leave Trubisky on the bench. I'd say that playing Trubisky this year should depend on three factors in order of importance...G08 wrote:I was bullshitting with someone and he brought up an interesting point... what do we gain from winning a game or two with Glennon? Isn't the best approach to put Trubisky out there, let him learn on the job (while hopefully winning some games)? We aren't a Super Bowl team... losses with Trubisky developing will hurt less (and get me a better draft pick, which is a highly debated subject).
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
1. The OL needs to be playing reasonably well.
2. The running game needs to be decent and reliable.
3. He needs to have a go to receiver.
Sending him out there with a bad OL is a prescription for disaster. He'll develop bad habits and his confidence could be crushed. I'd much rather Mike Glennon get destroyed by a poor OL than Mitch Trubisky. Having #1 should yield #2. You can't send a rookie out there in an offense that has to pass an inordinant amount to have a chance of succeeding. Balance is HUGE for a rookie QB. And finally, it really helps if he had a reliable target. I'm thinking it would be Zach Miller and the TE group, because I don't see reliability in any of the other WRs vs. #1 and #2 CBs.
The above argument doesn't acknowledge that QBs are DESTROYED by throwing them out there too early. But it happens. Way too often.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
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My take is Sunday Trubisky had a small repertoire of plays and came in against a team with no tape of him as a pro. Teams are going to make adjustments and each week Trubisky's repertoire of plays and reads is going to grow. At a certain point, and I don't know long from now, Trubisky will have enough of the playbook and reads down to start. I don't think it will take more than a few games into the season if that for him to go into the fire and prove he has it.
One more thing I'd like to address, of those who bring up the example of Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Bret Farve and how that helped him. How do you know he would not have ended up just as good if he started as a rookie? He isn't sitting behind Brett Farve.
One more thing I'd like to address, of those who bring up the example of Aaron Rodgers sitting behind Bret Farve and how that helped him. How do you know he would not have ended up just as good if he started as a rookie? He isn't sitting behind Brett Farve.
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Yep!Mikefive wrote:The answer to this question should depend on the state of the offense. If the OL is playing like it played with Glennon in the first PS game, absolutely positively leave Trubisky on the bench. I'd say that playing Trubisky this year should depend on three factors in order of importance...G08 wrote:I was bullshitting with someone and he brought up an interesting point... what do we gain from winning a game or two with Glennon? Isn't the best approach to put Trubisky out there, let him learn on the job (while hopefully winning some games)? We aren't a Super Bowl team... losses with Trubisky developing will hurt less (and get me a better draft pick, which is a highly debated subject).
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
1. The OL needs to be playing reasonably well.
2. The running game needs to be decent and reliable.
3. He needs to have a go to receiver.
Sending him out there with a bad OL is a prescription for disaster. He'll develop bad habits and his confidence could be crushed. I'd much rather Mike Glennon get destroyed by a poor OL than Mitch Trubisky. Having #1 should yield #2. You can't send a rookie out there in an offense that has to pass an inordinant amount to have a chance of succeeding. Balance is HUGE for a rookie QB. And finally, it really helps if he had a reliable target. I'm thinking it would be Zach Miller and the TE group, because I don't see reliability in any of the other WRs vs. #1 and #2 CBs.
The above argument doesn't acknowledge that QBs are DESTROYED by throwing them out there too early. But it happens. Way too often.
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Actually I don't think Trubisky is the only part of the equation for him to start. If Glennon keeps coming out and putting up 2/8 with a turnover kind of numbers, might as well start Trubisky. I'm not leaving the kid on the bench just for the sake of him sitting if Glennon is going to be worse.
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You get nothing from Ws, but that isn't the point.G08 wrote:I was bullshitting with someone and he brought up an interesting point... what do we gain from winning a game or two with Glennon? Isn't the best approach to put Trubisky out there, let him learn on the job (while hopefully winning some games)? We aren't a Super Bowl team... losses with Trubisky developing will hurt less (and get me a better draft pick, which is a highly debated subject).
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
The point is the belief that he's not ready yet and. if played too much too soon, he'll start developing bad habits and progress worse than if he gets time to practice playing pro under center QB.
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Yep, what good could it do to have Trubisky sit behind Marquise Willi-
Erp.
Erp.
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Nice analysis done by adipost
I will say that scrambling QB's are far more likely to get injured than those that stay in the pocket but Trubisky looked thrilling to watch
I will say that scrambling QB's are far more likely to get injured than those that stay in the pocket but Trubisky looked thrilling to watch
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I agree with this ALL DAY LONG. You just drafted, who you think will be, the face of the franchise for the next 12 years. Your #1 goal right now is to set him up for success, and NOT to listen to meatheads like us. Mitch needs AT LEAST 8-12 games on the sidelines before you would ever think of putting him in. MikeFive is absolutely right. If the OL sucks this year, sit Trubisky until 2018.Mikefive wrote:The answer to this question should depend on the state of the offense. If the OL is playing like it played with Glennon in the first PS game, absolutely positively leave Trubisky on the bench. I'd say that playing Trubisky this year should depend on three factors in order of importance...G08 wrote:I was bullshitting with someone and he brought up an interesting point... what do we gain from winning a game or two with Glennon? Isn't the best approach to put Trubisky out there, let him learn on the job (while hopefully winning some games)? We aren't a Super Bowl team... losses with Trubisky developing will hurt less (and get me a better draft pick, which is a highly debated subject).
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
1. The OL needs to be playing reasonably well.
2. The running game needs to be decent and reliable.
3. He needs to have a go to receiver.
Sending him out there with a bad OL is a prescription for disaster. He'll develop bad habits and his confidence could be crushed. I'd much rather Mike Glennon get destroyed by a poor OL than Mitch Trubisky. Having #1 should yield #2. You can't send a rookie out there in an offense that has to pass an inordinant amount to have a chance of succeeding. Balance is HUGE for a rookie QB. And finally, it really helps if he had a reliable target. I'm thinking it would be Zach Miller and the TE group, because I don't see reliability in any of the other WRs vs. #1 and #2 CBs.
The above argument doesn't acknowledge that QBs are DESTROYED by throwing them out there too early. But it happens. Way too often.
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oh man, if we sit trubisky for the majority of his nfl career, think of how good he'll be when he joins atkins & rebel's rec league! i'm salivating!karhu wrote:Yep, what good could it do to have Trubisky sit behind Marquise Willi-
Erp.
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Rich Campbell@Rich_Campbell Aug 10
I think it's fair to say Trubisky was better tonight than he has been in any practice we've watched. Turns out dude's a gamer.
This is why I'm not worried about mitch starting this season. For every aarron rodgers who sat for awhile, there's a roethlisberger, wilson, matt ryan, stafford, prescott, carr, luck, manning etc who's been thrown in the fire and done very well.
1. The OL needs to be playing reasonably well.
2. The running game needs to be decent and reliable.
3. He needs to have a go to receiver.
Sending him out there with a bad OL is a prescription for disaster. [/quote]
Here's the thing; we do have an above average OL, and we do have an above average running game. we may not have a true #1 WR, but it's not the complete group of scrubs that people make it out to be. We have very good TE's as well.
Actually most importantly, we have an OC who is going to play to mitch's strengths instead of some mike martz motherfucker pushing a square peg into a round hole.
Mitch is a fuckin gamer. He needs reps against real NFL defenses, he doesnt need to be leading the scout team. Dowell will slowly bring him along each week adding new concepts as we go. Mike Glennon will cry himself to sleep every night on a large pile of money and maybe eke out a career as the next ryan fitzpatrick.
It's basically rex vs orton all over again and it's time to unleash the dragon.
I think it's fair to say Trubisky was better tonight than he has been in any practice we've watched. Turns out dude's a gamer.
This is why I'm not worried about mitch starting this season. For every aarron rodgers who sat for awhile, there's a roethlisberger, wilson, matt ryan, stafford, prescott, carr, luck, manning etc who's been thrown in the fire and done very well.
The answer to this question should depend on the state of the offense. If the OL is playing like it played with Glennon in the first PS game, absolutely positively leave Trubisky on the bench. I'd say that playing Trubisky this year should depend on three factors in order of importance...Mikefive wrote:
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
1. The OL needs to be playing reasonably well.
2. The running game needs to be decent and reliable.
3. He needs to have a go to receiver.
Sending him out there with a bad OL is a prescription for disaster. [/quote]
Here's the thing; we do have an above average OL, and we do have an above average running game. we may not have a true #1 WR, but it's not the complete group of scrubs that people make it out to be. We have very good TE's as well.
Actually most importantly, we have an OC who is going to play to mitch's strengths instead of some mike martz motherfucker pushing a square peg into a round hole.
Mitch is a fuckin gamer. He needs reps against real NFL defenses, he doesnt need to be leading the scout team. Dowell will slowly bring him along each week adding new concepts as we go. Mike Glennon will cry himself to sleep every night on a large pile of money and maybe eke out a career as the next ryan fitzpatrick.
It's basically rex vs orton all over again and it's time to unleash the dragon.
I agree, however I don't see Trubisky as a scrambler. He wants to throw first, he keeps his eyes down field. They methodical moved the pocket to create space. He has the ability to run but from what I've seen, he uses his legs as a last resort and I'm 100fine with that.ramentaschen wrote:Nice analysis done by adipost
I will say that scrambling QB's are far more likely to get injured than those that stay in the pocket but Trubisky looked thrilling to watch
“Protect this fucking house, go all out, leave that shit out on the field, let’s have some fun, makes some plays baby ” Mitch Trubisky #believethesleeve
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RustyTrubisky wrote:oh man, if we sit trubisky for the majority of his nfl career, think of how good he'll be when he joins atkins & rebel's rec league! i'm salivating!karhu wrote:Yep, what good could it do to have Trubisky sit behind Marquise Willi-
Erp.
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in all honesty, I would rather Glennon play well and have a good situation on our hands.
If Glennon can't get the offense going in preseason, and shits the bed in first few games of season... I think that's the way it will play out if we see Trub in there (provided he continues to progress well). The kid is a gamer and it shows, mentally and physically he has the tools. As much as I would like to see him in there, I have no problems with him sitting for the right time to go in. We waited this long as fans, we can handle waiting halfway through the season when it's crystal clear that Glennon sucks. Then there are absolutely no doubts and Trub will be there in for good.
If Glennon can't get the offense going in preseason, and shits the bed in first few games of season... I think that's the way it will play out if we see Trub in there (provided he continues to progress well). The kid is a gamer and it shows, mentally and physically he has the tools. As much as I would like to see him in there, I have no problems with him sitting for the right time to go in. We waited this long as fans, we can handle waiting halfway through the season when it's crystal clear that Glennon sucks. Then there are absolutely no doubts and Trub will be there in for good.
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I disagree with the contention that Trubisky should be started immediately because he plays better "for real" than "in camp." He played better in his first preseason game because Loggains designed plays to make him look good, including lots of shotgun snaps, rollouts, and at least one play that he ran in college; and not plays that could survive a season's worth of scrutiny. By contrast, in camp, he's being taught concepts that Loggains believes will work all season.
I'm not suggesting that Wentz has been set back in the least by starting last year. It's impossible to know because there are no reset/undo buttons for a QB's development. But he rated 104 in his first 4 games when there was little tape on him (and the playbook was probably reduced and tailored for his strengths), and only 72 in his last 12 games when he was better known. [And I realize he was playing against mostly inferior competition (including the Bears) in those first 4 games , but his best game of the year was in there against the Steelers.]
I'm not suggesting that Wentz has been set back in the least by starting last year. It's impossible to know because there are no reset/undo buttons for a QB's development. But he rated 104 in his first 4 games when there was little tape on him (and the playbook was probably reduced and tailored for his strengths), and only 72 in his last 12 games when he was better known. [And I realize he was playing against mostly inferior competition (including the Bears) in those first 4 games , but his best game of the year was in there against the Steelers.]
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RustyTrubisky wrote: Rich Campbell@Rich_Campbell Aug 10
I think it's fair to say Trubisky was better tonight than he has been in any practice we've watched. Turns out dude's a gamer.
This is why I'm not worried about mitch starting this season. For every aarron rodgers who sat for awhile, there's a roethlisberger, wilson, matt ryan, stafford, prescott, carr, luck, manning etc who's been thrown in the fire and done very well.
The answer to this question should depend on the state of the offense. If the OL is playing like it played with Glennon in the first PS game, absolutely positively leave Trubisky on the bench. I'd say that playing Trubisky this year should depend on three factors in order of importance...Mikefive wrote:
I was completely on the "sit Trubisky until week 11" train but shit man... if he's looking good and Glennon shits the bed early on in the season, I might start him week 6 (@Ravens, vs Panthers, @Saints, BYE WEEK, vs Packers).
1. The OL needs to be playing reasonably well.
2. The running game needs to be decent and reliable.
3. He needs to have a go to receiver.
Sending him out there with a bad OL is a prescription for disaster.
Here's the thing; we do have an above average OL, and we do have an above average running game. we may not have a true #1 WR, but it's not the complete group of scrubs that people make it out to be. We have very good TE's as well.
Actually most importantly, we have an OC who is going to play to mitch's strengths instead of some mike martz motherfucker pushing a square peg into a round hole.
Mitch is a fuckin gamer. He needs reps against real NFL defenses, he doesnt need to be leading the scout team. Dowell will slowly bring him along each week adding new concepts as we go. Mike Glennon will cry himself to sleep every night on a large pile of money and maybe eke out a career as the next ryan fitzpatrick.
It's basically rex vs orton all over again and it's time to unleash the dragon.[/quote]
I beg to differ on your first point. There are many more QBs who have been destroyed by throwing them out there right away. One of them named Carr, ironically. And let's remember what EVERYONE said about this draft... That there's no Peyton Mannings or Andrew Lucks. So those on your "started right away and did fine" list who came out with resumes like those guys, you should eliminate from your list as it's not a fair comparison.
In your second point, you say our running game and OL are good. Really? Is that what you saw when Mike Glennon was playing? I sure didn't. Last year was last year. Now is now. We need to assess based on what's happening today, not some other time. Now maybe they'll get it together and that stuff will come around when Kyle Long returns. That would be great. But we need to see it before we decide that's what we have.
Here's the thing... There's a point where Trubisky's degree of development in concert with the quality of the team around him makes it a winning proposition to play him. If you play him before that time, you will retard his development or damage him to the point of destroying his career. But if you play him after he's already been ready for some time, then you haven't lost anything long term, just development time. Do you think the Packers are kicking themselves for not playing Rodgers sooner? For me, I err on the side of caution and playing Biscuit when I feel comfortable that I'm not damaging him. He's a long term investment. And I'm looking through that lens when I'm deciding when to play him.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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but our bears guys were saying when he was drafted that if he had been playing for 3 years he'd most definitely have been the number one pick. it was fox or pace or someone high up.mmmc_35 wrote:Trubisky did improve sitting on the sidelines at North Carolina to the degree his only college season made him a top draft pick.
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Has Bears rookie Mitch Trubisky arrived earlier than expected?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
i thought this was good
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
i thought this was good
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mmmc_35 wrote:Mitch had a poor day at practice yesterday gents.
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That's a hypothetical... a guess. But even if it's true, the fact is that he DIDN'T start for 3 years. He started 13 games. And that matters a lot when it comes to judging how ready he is to start at the NFL level.RustyTrubisky wrote:but our bears guys were saying when he was drafted that if he had been playing for 3 years he'd most definitely have been the number one pick. it was fox or pace or someone high up.mmmc_35 wrote:Trubisky did improve sitting on the sidelines at North Carolina to the degree his only college season made him a top draft pick.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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yeah, but you cant say he "improved on the bench" but then turn around and say he isnt good enough to start now because he sat on the bench. amirite.Mikefive wrote:That's a hypothetical... a guess. But even if it's true, the fact is that he DIDN'T start for 3 years. He started 13 games. And that matters a lot when it comes to judging how ready he is to start at the NFL level.RustyTrubisky wrote:but our bears guys were saying when he was drafted that if he had been playing for 3 years he'd most definitely have been the number one pick. it was fox or pace or someone high up.mmmc_35 wrote:Trubisky did improve sitting on the sidelines at North Carolina to the degree his only college season made him a top draft pick.
Good stuff.RustyTrubisky wrote:Has Bears rookie Mitch Trubisky arrived earlier than expected?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
i thought this was good
Your signature has me laughing uncontrollably.RustyTrubisky wrote:oh man, if we sit trubisky for the majority of his nfl career, think of how good he'll be when he joins atkins & rebel's rec league! i'm salivating!karhu wrote:Yep, what good could it do to have Trubisky sit behind Marquise Willi-
Erp.