And the "controversy" begins...Rosenbloom

For all things Chicago Bears

Moderator: wab

Richie
MVP
Posts: 1912
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 17 times

Mikefive wrote:
PC Load Letter wrote:
Mikefive wrote:When is the last time the Bears actually developed a rookie QB into something good? Jim McMahon... check. Does Jim Harbaugh count? And those were how long ago?
This could perhaps be relevant if anyone on our current coaching staff or scouting department were involved in any of our past QBs. :)
That's fair. It just seems like something we just haven't been able to do for a long time. I blame Ted Phillips and the McCaskeys! :-P
Like PC said, it's just a rather irrelevant point to make, pertaining to this staff, scouting and Trubisky. The past failures of coaches and QB's who are no longer here, has no bearing on them. It's like using those H2H team statistics in the NFL, that go back multiple decades.

Pretty sure the Steelers haven't ever beaten the Bears at Soldier Field, or something along those lines. However, we'd all agree that since nobody from those teams is still here, it's pretty silly to suggest it will have an impact on our upcoming game at Soldier Field against them.

Not only that, I could sit here and bring up Fox developing Delhomme and going to a SB. Same goes for Pace, who was in New Orleans with Brees.
User avatar
kevperro
Practice Squad
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 11:30 am

Blah...blah....blah. The Monday morning QB syndrome at work.

I have no problem doing what is right to develop Tribs. Maybe he could have won the game... it is an unprovable assertion but I'm perfectly letting them develop him at a pace that gives him the best chance at long-term success. What if he goes out there and lays a turd in his first NFL game? You don't want to do that to the kid at this point unless we were a win now team where the risk is worth it. I'd much rather see him worked-in later in the season. We are not going to a SB with this rag-tag group of WRs anyway.
User avatar
DaSuperfan
Crafty Veteran
Posts: 996
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

I honestly think Trubisky can run the offense the way Glennon ran it. He needs the experience on the field to see the exotic blitzes, coverages etc in real live game action as opposed to just watching from the sidelines. I understand Trubisky had only 13 starts in college and needs time to get acclimated to a pro offense. But I think the best way for him to learn is by actually playing and getting said experience.

I'd much rather take lumps with Trubisky fucking up than wasting time watching Glennon (who isn't going to be on the Bears roster next year anyways). I think it makes sense for him to start the learning process early rather than later because we all know that Trubisky will be starting at some point this season anyways - why not just accelerate the inevitable?
Never Die Easy
User avatar
docc
Head Coach
Posts: 3811
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: Outpost of Reality S.E. Arizona
Has thanked: 935 times
Been thanked: 168 times

Rosenasshole sucks cock in hell//

Piece of malignant shit..
User avatar
botfly10
Player of the Month
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:59 pm

Rosenbloom writes this whole article from the perspective that somehow Glennon is playing because he is the better QB. Which is bullshit. Rosenbloom spends all those words trying to demonstrate that Glennon is a worse option. Which of course is true. However, rosie completely misses the point of the debate and it renders his whole article as complete clickbait bullshit.

Glennon is playing because the Bears coaches and FO believe that playing Trubs right now will hurt his development. Thats it. Simple.

The goal here is to mold Trubs into a star. That is the primary objective. Everything else, including wins during this season is secondary. People need to understand that already, cause this shit is getting tedious..

Now, whether or not you trust this FO and Staff to do that molding is a whole other conversation. Nevertheless, the fact remains. Waiting on Trubs has NOTHING to do with Glennon or his performance on Sundays.
Last edited by botfly10 on Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
botfly10
Player of the Month
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:59 pm

DaSuperfan wrote:I honestly think Trubisky can run the offense the way Glennon ran it. He needs the experience on the field to see the exotic blitzes, coverages etc in real live game action as opposed to just watching from the sidelines. I understand Trubisky had only 13 starts in college and needs time to get acclimated to a pro offense. But I think the best way for him to learn is by actually playing and getting said experience.

I'd much rather take lumps with Trubisky fucking up than wasting time watching Glennon (who isn't going to be on the Bears roster next year anyways). I think it makes sense for him to start the learning process early rather than later because we all know that Trubisky will be starting at some point this season anyways - why not just accelerate the inevitable?
The coaches and FO disagree with you on the most optimal way for Trubs to learn the position at this point in his development. What do you think of that?
User avatar
DaSuperfan
Crafty Veteran
Posts: 996
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:44 pm
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 9 times

botfly10 wrote:
DaSuperfan wrote:I honestly think Trubisky can run the offense the way Glennon ran it. He needs the experience on the field to see the exotic blitzes, coverages etc in real live game action as opposed to just watching from the sidelines. I understand Trubisky had only 13 starts in college and needs time to get acclimated to a pro offense. But I think the best way for him to learn is by actually playing and getting said experience.

I'd much rather take lumps with Trubisky fucking up than wasting time watching Glennon (who isn't going to be on the Bears roster next year anyways). I think it makes sense for him to start the learning process early rather than later because we all know that Trubisky will be starting at some point this season anyways - why not just accelerate the inevitable?
The coaches and FO disagree with you on the most optimal way for Trubs to learn the position at this point in his development. What do you think of that?
I think it's fine to agree to disagree. It's just my opinion.
Never Die Easy
Mr.Irrelevant
Player of the Month
Posts: 377
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 5:46 pm
Been thanked: 11 times

botfly10 wrote:.

Glennon is playing because the Bears coaches and FO believe that playing Trubs right now will hurt his development. Thats it. Simple.

The goal here is to mold Trubs into a star. That is the primary objective. Everything else, including wins during this season is secondary. People need to understand that already, cause this shit is getting tedious..

.
I disagree with your premise, at least from the coaches perspective.

Their primary objective is to win enough games to keep their jobs. If they don't, then it doesn't matter to them what happens with Trubisky.

Therefore, Glennon is starting because they believe he gives them the best chance to win now. If that belief changes because of Glennon's failures or Trubisky's improvement then the starting QB will change as well.
User avatar
Boris13c
Hall of Famer
Posts: 15958
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
Location: The Bear Nebula
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 103 times

botfly10 wrote:Now, whether or not you trust this FO and Staff to do that molding is a whole other conversation. Nevertheless, the fact remains. Waiting on Trubs has NOTHING to do with Glennon or his performance on Sundays.

I'm going to have to disagree with you

when Trubisky plays is going to be determined, sooner or later, at least in part by how Glennon plays and how the team performs

and anyone watching tape of the Bears offense against Atlanta will know some very simple ways to shut it down, which will equate to losses ... and if the team keeps losing, this coaching staff won't have job security ... and as was pointed out by someone else, they will hitch their wagon to whoever can save their jobs

if the Glennon era offense produces more results akin to what it produced in the opening game, the Trubisky era will start much sooner than you think
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
User avatar
botfly10
Player of the Month
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:59 pm

Mr.Irrelevant wrote:
botfly10 wrote:.

Glennon is playing because the Bears coaches and FO believe that playing Trubs right now will hurt his development. Thats it. Simple.

The goal here is to mold Trubs into a star. That is the primary objective. Everything else, including wins during this season is secondary. People need to understand that already, cause this shit is getting tedious..

.
I disagree with your premise, at least from the coaches perspective.

Their primary objective is to win enough games to keep their jobs. If they don't, then it doesn't matter to them what happens with Trubisky.

Therefore, Glennon is starting because they believe he gives them the best chance to win now. If that belief changes because of Glennon's failures or Trubisky's improvement then the starting QB will change as well.
Nope. Pace is not going to allow Trubs's development to be affected by Fox's concern about his job. That whole premise is silly. Just not happening.

The minute that Pace et al. deem Trubs's development will be optimized by starting, he will be on the field. Not before (without injuries). Fox be damned.
User avatar
Wounded Bear
MVP
Posts: 1032
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:13 pm
Has thanked: 12 times
Been thanked: 13 times

botfly10 wrote:Rosenbloom writes this whole article from the perspective that somehow Glennon is playing because he is the better QB. Which is bullshit. Rosenbloom spends all those words trying to demonstrate that Glennon is a worse option. Which of course is true. However, rosie completely misses the point of the debate and it renders his whole article as complete clickbait bullshit.

Glennon is playing because the Bears coaches and FO believe that playing Trubs right now will hurt his development. Thats it. Simple.

The goal here is to mold Trubs into a star. That is the primary objective. Everything else, including wins during this season is secondary. People need to understand that already, cause this shit is getting tedious..

Now, whether or not you trust this FO and Staff to do that molding is a whole other conversation. Nevertheless, the fact remains. Waiting on Trubs has NOTHING to do with Glennon or his performance on Sundays.
I pretty much agree with all of this. Now how long he stays on the sidelines is a whole other question, but I do think that everyone involved (FO/Coaches) feels that he's the better QB, albeit rough around the edges. I think they figure this team ain't exactly Super Bowl bound this year, so why go into a "win-now/panic mode" and risk possible detrimental effects on a long-term investment.
Image
The universe is under no obligation to make any sense to you...
Neil deGrasse Tyson
User avatar
botfly10
Player of the Month
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:59 pm

Wounded Bear wrote:
botfly10 wrote:Rosenbloom writes this whole article from the perspective that somehow Glennon is playing because he is the better QB. Which is bullshit. Rosenbloom spends all those words trying to demonstrate that Glennon is a worse option. Which of course is true. However, rosie completely misses the point of the debate and it renders his whole article as complete clickbait bullshit.

Glennon is playing because the Bears coaches and FO believe that playing Trubs right now will hurt his development. Thats it. Simple.

The goal here is to mold Trubs into a star. That is the primary objective. Everything else, including wins during this season is secondary. People need to understand that already, cause this shit is getting tedious..

Now, whether or not you trust this FO and Staff to do that molding is a whole other conversation. Nevertheless, the fact remains. Waiting on Trubs has NOTHING to do with Glennon or his performance on Sundays.
I pretty much agree with all of this. Now how long he stays on the sidelines is a whole other question, but I do think that everyone involved (FO/Coaches) feels that he's the better QB, albeit rough around the edges. I think they figure this team ain't exactly Super Bowl bound this year, so why go into a "win-now/panic mode" and risk possible detrimental effects on a long-term investment.
I think that we see Trubs maybe sooner than later. Before the preseason, I was thinking maybe in the week 8-10 range. But now I think maybe earlier.

Except for one caveat - the WR situation. If the WRs are terrible going forward, I could see it leading to a delay.
User avatar
botfly10
Player of the Month
Posts: 337
Joined: Sat Jul 22, 2017 10:59 pm

Boris13c wrote:
botfly10 wrote:Now, whether or not you trust this FO and Staff to do that molding is a whole other conversation. Nevertheless, the fact remains. Waiting on Trubs has NOTHING to do with Glennon or his performance on Sundays.

I'm going to have to disagree with you

when Trubisky plays is going to be determined, sooner or later, at least in part by how Glennon plays and how the team performs

and anyone watching tape of the Bears offense against Atlanta will know some very simple ways to shut it down, which will equate to losses ... and if the team keeps losing, this coaching staff won't have job security ... and as was pointed out by someone else, they will hitch their wagon to whoever can save their jobs

if the Glennon era offense produces more results akin to what it produced in the opening game, the Trubisky era will start much sooner than you think
Meh. They aren't going to play Trubs until they feel it will be a benefit to his development.

No way will they throw him to the wolves in some attempt to salvage a lost season. Thats not to say that I think they are going to wait all that long. Just that the development of Trubs is the first consideration - well before the performance of Glennon.

And again - no fuckin way is Pace going to allow Fox to use Trubs as a play in some attempt to save his job. Thats ridiculous.
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

botfly10 wrote:
Wounded Bear wrote:
botfly10 wrote:Rosenbloom writes this whole article from the perspective that somehow Glennon is playing because he is the better QB. Which is bullshit. Rosenbloom spends all those words trying to demonstrate that Glennon is a worse option. Which of course is true. However, rosie completely misses the point of the debate and it renders his whole article as complete clickbait bullshit.

Glennon is playing because the Bears coaches and FO believe that playing Trubs right now will hurt his development. Thats it. Simple.

The goal here is to mold Trubs into a star. That is the primary objective. Everything else, including wins during this season is secondary. People need to understand that already, cause this shit is getting tedious..

Now, whether or not you trust this FO and Staff to do that molding is a whole other conversation. Nevertheless, the fact remains. Waiting on Trubs has NOTHING to do with Glennon or his performance on Sundays.
I pretty much agree with all of this. Now how long he stays on the sidelines is a whole other question, but I do think that everyone involved (FO/Coaches) feels that he's the better QB, albeit rough around the edges. I think they figure this team ain't exactly Super Bowl bound this year, so why go into a "win-now/panic mode" and risk possible detrimental effects on a long-term investment.
I think that we see Trubs maybe sooner than later. Before the preseason, I was thinking maybe in the week 8-10 range. But now I think maybe earlier.

Except for one caveat - the WR situation. If the WRs are terrible going forward, I could see it leading to a delay.
I see it the other way around. If the WR's are awful, Glennon becomes a sitting duck in the pocket. If these guys don't get open immediately, the scarecrow is going down. They will have no choice but to put Trubisky in to give the WR's some time to actually get open.
User avatar
malk
Head Coach
Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 204 times

I don't think poor receivers are the type of offensive deficiency that ruins a young QB. It isn't ideal but Trubisky has enough mobility and the line is good enough that he shouldn't eat too many sacks. If he has to throw the ball away a lot because receivers aren't open it at least teaches him to read the field.

Of course if he throws loads of interceptions then that would be a problem but that would be more on him for not taking what the defence gives. It's a risk but not a massive one.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

Noted Brain Genius Malk, Summer 2018.

(2020 update, wait, was I right...)
User avatar
PlumBear
Rookie
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2017 6:58 pm

It wouldn't bother me if he did come in and throw loads of interceptions as a rook. By no means am I comparing him to Peyton Manning, but.
Manning had 26 TD and 28 Int as a rookie. 2nd year (what I'm more interested in) Manning had 26/15, 3rd 33/15.
I could care less about this year as long as he's learning what he can and can't do.
If year 2 ect.... show's what he's learned in year 1, I'd be so happy you could dip me in shit and call me chocolate covered.
If there ain't any, I'll even add the peanuts!
User avatar
docc
Head Coach
Posts: 3811
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: Outpost of Reality S.E. Arizona
Has thanked: 935 times
Been thanked: 168 times

Welp,,since you put it that way,,6 games in,,Trubs get in shows what we hope...

Roll me on honey and throw me to the Lesbians..
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6806
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 384 times
Been thanked: 688 times

docc wrote:Welp,,since you put it that way,,6 games in,,Trubs get in shows what we hope...

Roll me on honey and throw me to the Lesbians..
You wouldn't be so comfortable with that plan if I showed you pics of the only lesbians I know.
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
User avatar
karhu
Head Coach
Posts: 2049
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2016 10:20 pm
Has thanked: 294 times
Been thanked: 373 times

Trubisky's the more talented QB. He'd better be.

And if he spent the preseason working on some basic stuff, at least he did well. Maybe he's mastered those things. Maybe after being given limited read responsibilities he's ready to go through an entire field's worth of progressions. He'd better be ready at some point, and that point might be now.

He did all that good work against backups and future free agents. Sure, his receivers were backups, too, but let's face it: the gap between the average team's backup defenders and its starters is a whole lot bigger than the one between the Bears' backup receivers and its...well, the guys who take the field at the beginning of the game. Teams weren't game-planning for him or throwing much at him. Maybe he's ready for what he'll face in the regular season. Again, he'd better be ready at some point, and maybe he's been able to read his limited game experience profitably into a whole lot of film study.

But even if all of that good stuff is true, a couple of other factors loom pretty huge.

One, look at our playcalling in the preseason and what we threw against Atlanta. We turtled. That's Fox up and down and twice on Sundays. Loggains might've called plays that included plenty of downfield routes (which he did, though the only guys getting open early were running underneath routes), but the game plan's a different thing, substantially Fox's thing, and the offense had to execute the game plan. That's not going to change with Trubisky in the game.

Two, and most importantly IMSO, once you start Trubisky, that's it. There's no turning back. If after barely a dozen college starts and some excellent preseason play against second- and third-stringers it turns out that he's got a problem, say, reading more than half the field, or managing the clock, or making adjustments at the line, too bad. He's going to learn those things in the worst possible way while the team suffers in proportion to the coaches' ability to cover things up, or fail altogether to learn them, and...well, that's not exactly what anyone had in mind here.

Just because Fox is too conservative doesn't mean that the team's wrong to wait on starting Trubisky. He'll never prove himself completely in film sessions or in practice; there'll always be a gap between what he's shown the coaches and what they need from him that'll be filled in with faith. One regular-season game into his career it stands to reason that he's learning and proving himself at such a clip off the field that that gap is being closed more steadily and surely than it would be if he started against Tampa. Or at any time before the bye. Or at any time this season, even. It's not unreasonable to allow that the coaching staff wants to make the necessary leap of faith as short as possible.
So much road and so few places, so much friendliness and so little intimacy, so much flavour and so little taste.

Friendship is better than fighting, but fighting is more useful.
Post Reply