F**k John Fox

[botfly10]

Fuck this guy. He should have been gone after the Green Bay game. Fangio should be interim coach right now.

I'm not sure if people remember that game well enough, but it was a disaster along with the rest of the early season. Same Fox, same results as the previous two years. Should have been enough evidence to can this guy.

And now we have Fox with his overly conservative style that is damaging the rookie QB. He has this kid looking hesitant, scared to throw, and happy feet starting to show up.

Fuck, this was the first game Trubs had the opportunity to actually get into a rhythm. And even then, it wasn't until deep into the second half. This may as well have been Trubs first game of the year since it was the first time they actually gave him a chance to be successful. And yeah, the results were up and down, but at least there was opportunity to learn and grow. Something to build on besides getting sacked on third and long. First time all year there is actually tape for Trubs to look at.

But I am sure the bears will revert to only throwing the ball on third and long, again setting Trubisky up to fail.

Most of us recognized that this was not a good team before the season started. A lot of us recognized that success this year will not be measured in wins, but rather progress and growth from young players. But Fox is destroying that potential.

The goal is supposed to be growth and development. But Fox is robbing this offense of that opportunity. His "live to lose another game" approach is designed to give the bears a chance at winning late in the 4th. But it is robbing the O of the opportunity to grow. Fox is playing for wins to save his job and it is hurting the team.

I don't care if I get blasted for this post, it's how I feel.

[botfly10]

TL;DR

The goal this year is supposed to be to fucking grow and learn and develop
But fucking Fox is robbing the team of that opportunity with his play not to lose (his job) style

[wab]

Cool

[botfly10]

Cool

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

The point is that when Fox takes away Trubs opportunity to make rookie mistakes, he takes away his opportunity to learn and grow.

Fox is still playing for wins instead of playing for growth. And for what? The bears will not sniff the playoffs. Anyone who was not deluded understood that going into the season. This is the year to make mistakes and correct them. But Fox is throwing that away to try and save his job with his QB averaging 7 throws a game coming into today.

Shit, this is the first game where there is even tape of the passing game for Trubs to go over.

[wab]

I mean. The goal is to win football games. He’d lose the locker room if he said “hey guys, this season is about Mitch...wins are secondary. Now, go get em!”

[botfly10]

I mean. The goal is to win football games. He’d lose the locker room if he said “hey guys, this season is about Mitch...wins are secondary. Now, go get em!”

Is that what you got out of my posts?

That the coach should tell the players “hey guys, this season is about Mitch...wins are secondary. Now, go get em”?

Oh no, wait. You are just making some shit up to argue against. See, you aren't actually disagreeing with me. You are inventing something that was never said to disagree with.

I would be interested in your take on what I actually said. Do you agree that Fox's approach is damaging to the development of the young guys on O? Or do you disagree? Please explain.

[wab]

Fox is still playing for wins instead of playing for growth. And for what? The bears will not sniff the playoffs.

Those are your words. I’m not making anything up. Those words suggest that you think is some sort of crazy notion that the Bears should actually play for wins.

And no, I don’t think that Fox or the Bears are damaging the development of anyone. They have one consistently productive offensive player in Howard, and one explosive rookie who gets leaned on too much because they have no one else. They have a roster full of WRs that probably won’t even be in the NFL next year. They have a championship level defense that allows them to keep games close.

The fact that the Bears are even in these games is a credit to the staff. Yeah, I have some complaints with the play calling at times, but overall I don’t have a problem with what going on. The Bears need more offensive talent on the outside. That’s the biggest difference between wins and losses right now.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

I mean. The goal is to win football games. He’d lose the locker room if he said “hey guys, this season is about Mitch...wins are secondary. Now, go get em!”

Is that what you got out of my posts?

That the coach should tell the players “hey guys, this season is about Mitch...wins are secondary. Now, go get em”?

Oh no, wait. You are just making some shit up to argue against. See, you aren't actually disagreeing with me. You are inventing something that was never said to disagree with.

I would be interested in your take on what I actually said. Do you agree that Fox's approach is damaging to the development of the young guys on O? Or do you disagree? Please explain.

What young guys on O, other than Howard and Trubs? Fox is trying to win a game. He is on one of the hottest seats in the NFL.

[botfly10]

Fox is still playing for wins instead of playing for growth. And for what? The bears will not sniff the playoffs.

Those are your words. I’m not making anything up. Those words suggest that you think is some sort of crazy notion that the Bears should actually play for wins.

And no, I don’t think that Fox or the Bears are damaging the development of anyone. They have one consistently productive offensive player in Howard, and one explosive rookie who gets leaned on too much because they have no one else. They have a roster full of WRs that probably won’t even be in the NFL next year. They have a championship level defense that allows them to keep games close.

The fact that the Bears are even in these games is a credit to the staff. Yeah, I have some complaints with the play calling at times, but overall I don’t have a problem with what going on. The Bears need more offensive talent on the outside. That’s the biggest difference between wins and losses right now.

If you don't have a problem with what is going on with this team, then I don't think we are going to find common ground here.

If you really think the Bears are one good WR away from being a very good team, then I see how my premise wouldn't make sense. I guess we are just going to disagree.

[wab]

If you think not having an NFL level WR on the team isn’t handcuffing the offense then I would be inclined to agree that we aren’t going to see eye to eye on this one.

All indications are that Fox pretty much stays out of the way and lets his coordinators coordinate. Loggains isn’t my favorite but he doesn’t have guys that can execute an NFL level passing game. He got roasted here last week for leaning too much on the run. I thought he did a better job calling plays today.

[botfly10]

If you think not having an NFL level WR on the team isn’t handcuffing the offense then I would be inclined to agree that we aren’t going to see eye to eye on this one.

All indications are that Fox pretty much stays out of the way and lets his coordinators coordinate. Loggains isn’t my favorite but he doesn’t have guys that can execute an NFL level passing game. He got roasted here last week for leaning too much on the run. I thought he did a better job calling plays today.

Yeah, WRs are a problem. Imo, there are more than that tho. Too many problems for the bears to sniff the playoffs.

And playcalling was the same until the second half. Same only throwing on 3rd down. And I bet that comes from Fox more than Loggains. Its speculation, but its been true of every Fox team regardless of OC or roster. Fox teams have always approached offense the same way. That is an indication that Fox very much dictates the approach.

[KOP_Snake]

There were maybe 2 plays where they ran on first down into a loaded box. The playcalling was not so bad this game IMO. From strictly numbers, the ratio was 37 pass / 28 runs called. Trub scrambled on a few called passes and took 2 sacks.

The problem lies in the personnel and execution. And, erm, refs robbing long TD passes.

I'm not even a Fox guy, but I really cant see how you put this one squarely on him playcalling wise. I'd be more worried about his players knowing how not to line up offsides...

[botfly10]

First half and second half were night and day playcalling.

Agree overall in the second half, I liked the playcalling more, as I already posted. I am scared the bears revert back to only throwing on 3rd and long next week tho.

And I am not screaming about Fox based on this game, but rather seeing no difference over the last 2 and a half years. And now, there is the development of a rookie QB at stake.

The number 1 priority for the bears is to develop Trubiski into a star. And imo, Fox is hindering that effort. That is my problem with him. Yes there are other problems with the bears. But again, imo, Fox is making it worse rather than better.

[Wounded Bear]

It's not just the receivers. Trubs is having rookie problems as expected. He seems a bit overwhelmed...probably because we got him out there a little too early, but that's an argument for another time. But I've seen on several occasions that Trubisky is late in hitting the receivers in the small window when they're open (typically right after they make the break in their route). He isn't nearly as accurate as I had thought, but again, it's been 4 games, so I fully expected that.

But to address the premise of the thread - yes, either John Fox or Dowell Loggains is doing their very best to fuck this kid right out of the gate. Running on run-predictable downs and passing on pass-predictable downs is setting up a young QB to fail. And that does very little for a young QB's confidence and/or production.

One more thing, these guys want to win, but they're smart individuals that are able to assess what this team needs to succeed in the long term. So of course they understand that this team desperately needs Mitchell Trubisky to grow so that they aren't so one-dimensional. If the OC has to sacrifice a few games to get Mitch up and running, I think these guys are smart enough to understand that. The sooner they can become a real team instead of one that's running around with a "Student Driver" sign hanging over them, the better.

[botfly10]

It's not just the receivers. Trubs is having rookie problems as expected. He seems a bit overwhelmed...probably because we got him out there a little too early, but that's an argument for another time. But I've seen on several occasions that Trubisky is late in hitting the receivers in the small window when they're open (typically right after they make the break in their route). He isn't nearly as accurate as I had thought, but again, it's been 4 games, so I fully expected that.

But to address the premise of the thread, yes, either John Fox or Dowell Loggains is doing their very best to fuck this kid right out of the gate. Running on run-predictable downs and passing on pass-predictable downs is setting up a young QB to fail. And that does very little for a young QB's confidence and/or production.

One more thing, these guys want to win, but they're smart individuals that are able to assess what this team needs to succeed in the long term. So of course they understand that this team desperately needs Mitchell Trubisky to grow so that they aren't so one-dimensional. If the OC has to sacrifice a few games to get Mitch up and running, I think these guys are smart enough to understand that. The sooner they can become a real team instead of one that's running around with a "Student Driver" sign hanging over them, the better.

Yeah, agree with this. You said it better than me.

Like you said, Trubs has been showing rookie problems. And its important that he does that NOW so he can work that shit out. When Fox takes away Trubs opportunity to make mistakes, he takes away his opportunity to learn.

[Wounded Bear]

And yes, the second half was better play-calling compared to the first, but I think New Orleans fully expected us to loosen up and start passing because we had a lot of ground to make up. The idea is to keep the defense guessing throughout the entire game.

Just needed to acknowledge that the play-calling was better in the 2nd half.

[BR0D1E86]

I'm mildly concerned that Fox will be retained. If it means the defensive staff is back, it will help it hurt a little less.

I don't want Loggains back though. I think the approach has largely been dictated by Fox. But even given that, the play calling stinks. He needs to go.


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[mmmc_35]

If the thought process is "to retain the dc" why not promote the dc.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Guys. Fangio is old. Ryan Pace is like 45. I want a younger HC. One of the more inventive young coaches in the league. I want him to come in and see eye to eye with Pace on the direction of the football team. A younger coach will be able to relate to Biscuits better. Keep Pace, clean house on the HC and OC. Keep Fangio if we can.

[southdakbearfan]

I want Fox fired.

That being said, WR's are screwing this entire offense over. The windows are so freaking tiny and there isn't such a thing as separation, even the announcers were all over it.

How the heck is a OC suppose to call a game against an NFL caliber defense when basically they got a bunch of guys that between the entire group might get open 6 times a game as a whole? You can only call so many naked boots, screens and simple short crap before the defense just bunches you all up.

[KOP_Snake]

Pace is actually 40.

[Adipost]

John Fox needs to go yesterday before this turns into Goff/Fisher part 2. It’s really looking like Trubisky is having his natural instincts coached out of him.

[Adipost]

There were maybe 2 plays where they ran on first down into a loaded box. The playcalling was not so bad this game IMO. From strictly numbers, the ratio was 37 pass / 28 runs called. Trub scrambled on a few called passes and took 2 sacks.

The problem lies in the personnel and execution. And, erm, refs robbing long TD passes.

I'm not even a Fox guy, but I really cant see how you put this one squarely on him playcalling wise. I'd be more worried about his players knowing how not to line up offsides...

The play calling was atrocious...ageyn.

[G08]

Guys. Fangio is old. Ryan Pace is like 45. I want a younger HC. One of the more inventive young coaches in the league. I want him to come in and see eye to eye with Pace on the direction of the football team. A younger coach will be able to relate to Biscuits better. Keep Pace, clean house on the HC and OC. Keep Fangio if we can.

Bring in Josh McDaniels, Pete Carmichael Jr, or Matt Nagy.

I don't care who at this point.

Fangio likely is going to walk, do what you can to keep Ed Donatell.

[G08]

Dan Wiederer‏ @danwiederer 4m4 minutes ago
More
Bears offense had 46 full possessions in October. Only five TD drives and 50 points. That has to get better.

#winning

[mmmc_35]

John Fox needs to go yesterday before this turns into Goff/Fisher part 2. It’s really looking like Trubisky is having his natural instincts coached out of him.

I am worried about this. His eye level might be dropping and the game is looking a bit faster. These are my opinions from last game. The bye week came at the right time.

[Funkster]

Guys. Fangio is old. Ryan Pace is like 45. I want a younger HC. One of the more inventive young coaches in the league. I want him to come in and see eye to eye with Pace on the direction of the football team. A younger coach will be able to relate to Biscuits better. Keep Pace, clean house on the HC and OC. Keep Fangio if we can.

Bring in Josh McDaniels, Pete Carmichael Jr, or Matt Nagy.

I don't care who at this point.

Fangio likely is going to walk, do what you can to keep Ed Donatell.

I think the Bears are much closer to being very good on defense than even average on offense. I like your suggestions of McDaniels or Carmichael but not at the expense of Fangio. This is a conundrum because it seems like we can't have both.

[G08]

Pace's job is on the line; he can get rid of Fox but who will Fangio bring in on offense to groom our rookie QB? I agree with how our defense is starting to hit its stride... it's why I'm so God damned annoyed with this franchise. We finally get something good going and we may have to blow it up because John Fox is conservative to a fault?

Are we going to Jay-Cutler him and ruin another QB?

[Funkster]

Pace's job is on the line; he can get rid of Fox but who will Fangio bring in on offense to groom our rookie QB? I agree with how our defense is starting to hit its stride... it's why I'm so God damned annoyed with this franchise. We finally get something good going and we may have to blow it up because John Fox is conservative to a fault?

Are we going to Jay-Cutler him and ruin another QB?

History says yes

Not only that, most likely the Pats and Saints would block a lateral move for theirs OC's. I'm not 100% sold on McDaniels as a HC but would love him as our OC. As a HC, maybe he learned his lesson from his time in Denver, maybe not? Sitting under Bill should at least give him major insight how to run a team?

[Hiphopopotamos]

Guys. Fangio is old. Ryan Pace is like 45. I want a younger HC. One of the more inventive young coaches in the league. I want him to come in and see eye to eye with Pace on the direction of the football team. A younger coach will be able to relate to Biscuits better. Keep Pace, clean house on the HC and OC. Keep Fangio if we can.

Bring in Josh McDaniels, Pete Carmichael Jr, or Matt Nagy.

I don't care who at this point.

Fangio likely is going to walk, do what you can to keep Ed Donatell.

This. Honestly all I'm hoping for at this point is that they don't do too much damage to Trubisky that it can't be corrected by the next coaching staff.

Hell - I'd even take McDaniels at this point and I hate that fucking guy.