F**k John Fox

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Hematite
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G08 wrote:
Hematite wrote:I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
Ahh, another cynic. Welcome to the darkside, my friend :lol:
I understand that they want to protect their future QB by running the ball, but just like helicopter parenting, too much protection becomes harmful. You and others have already shown stats of distance to gain on many of his throws. It's maddening. Maybe we (some of us) are over reacting, I don't know. But like you, I'm scared that they are turning him into a complete game manager and reducing his skill set. Game managers don't seem to win Super Bowls anymore because of the rule changes and they hardly keep their teams at the top of their divisions year in and year out.

Give me a Stafford (gun slinger) any day over a game manager and I'll deal with the INT's here and there!

EDIT> To everybody that wants to throw the Cutler saga into this post, I understand. Personally, I loved Cutler and he was the best Bears QB that probably most on this board have witnessed in a Bears uniform. Cutler unfortunately didn't have a high enough TD/INT ratio (which can be blamed partly on lack of weapons for many years). But that ship has sailed. Question now becomes, would you be happy if Trubisky was turned into a game manager in the mold of a John Fox QB?
Last edited by Hematite on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Oh absolutely there's a level of over-reaction on my end. I just felt so confident about this fucking team going into last weeks game and we predictably shit the bed. I'm just fed up, I guess, of trying to pour everything I have into this shit franchise and literally have nothing to show for it.

Sure enough, I'll probably be glued to the TV every remaining game.
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Hematite wrote:I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
I don't think this staff is going to ruin him in any way shape or form. But, I don't think these are the guys to get everything possible out of him and maximize his talent.
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G08 wrote:Oh absolutely there's a level of over-reaction on my end. I just felt so confident about this fucking team going into last weeks game and we predictably shit the bed. I'm just fed up, I guess, of trying to pour everything I have into this shit franchise and literally have nothing to show for it.

Sure enough, I'll probably be glued to the TV every remaining game.
Yeah my own overconfidence evaporated on our first play from scrimmage when we run up the middle for minus 3 yards. That was when I felt pretty sure we were going to lose.
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Hematite wrote:
G08 wrote:
Hematite wrote:I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
Ahh, another cynic. Welcome to the darkside, my friend :lol:
I understand that they want to protect their future QB by running the ball, but just like helicopter parenting, too much protection becomes harmful. You and others have already shown stats of distance to gain on many of his throws. It's maddening. Maybe we (some of us) are over reacting, I don't know. But like you, I'm scared that they are turning him into a complete game manager and reducing his skill set. Game managers don't seem to win Super Bowls anymore because of the rule changes and they hardly keep their teams at the top of their divisions year in and year out.

Give me a Stafford (gun slinger) any day over a game manager and I'll deal with the INT's here and there!

EDIT> To everybody that wants to throw the Cutler saga into this post, I understand. Personally, I loved Cutler and he was the best Bears QB that probably most on this board have witnessed in a Bears uniform. Cutler unfortunately didn't have a high enough TD/INT ratio (which can be blamed partly on lack of weapons for many years). But that ship has sailed. Question now becomes, would you be happy if Trubisky was turned into a game manager in the mold of a John Fox QB?

First, I highly dislike the term "game manager". IMO, it's just an ignorant term overly used and viewed by most in football world as a negative. I'm going with Primetime on this one. It's like the term "cover corner", every single CB covers the receiver just like every single QB manages the game. A game manager to me is a QB with a high completion rating and low turnover line. He takes what the defense gives him and doesn't force the football where it doesn't belong. He understands that he can't put his team in a bad position. He knows when to hold em' and knows when to fold em'. Most of the time, these QBs are accompanied by a very good defense. If we have to use that term, I ultimately think of Alex Smith and would also put Russell Wilson in the bunch.

Now to answer your question. Would you be happy if Trubisky was turned into a game manager in the mold of a John Fox QB?

Absolutely not!

IMO, that's why Fox will be gone after this season. Fox is conservative to a fault and plays not to loose more than he plays to win. If my mother can call out what the Bears are doing on offense and what they should be doing, Pace sure and the hell can see it also. I don't believe Pace will go down with the Fox ship. Fox was brought to the Bears for 1 reason and he has, for the most part, accomplished that. Fox is a foundation layer not a finish carpenter. It's time to bring in the right coach that will put the finishing touches on this team. For the most part, the defense is poised, now they need to solidify their franchise QB and Fox dictatorship style just isn't going to cut it in today's NFL.
Last edited by Funkster on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Protect this fucking house, go all out, leave that shit out on the field, let’s have some fun, makes some plays baby ” Mitch Trubisky #believethesleeve
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#Bears are 0-3 vs. NFC North teams in 2017.

They are 3-12 against the division in the last three years.
Foxxyyyyy
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Trubisky needs his McVay type of offensive coach to work with him and bring things along. It's not like Goff has a slew of weapons, but we're all seeing what's been transpiring down there.

I don't hate Fox, but much like Jeff Fisher... the game just passed him by at some point. IMO
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Richie wrote:Trubisky needs his McVay type of offensive coach to work with him and bring things along. It's not like Goff has a slew of weapons, but we're all seeing what's been transpiring down there.

I don't hate Fox, but much like Jeff Fisher... the game just passed him by at some point. IMO
Agreed. Get that young, innovative offensive mind in here and time him to Trubisky. Goff has better weapons than we currently do; those need to be upgraded by Pace both in FA and the draft.
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BR0D1E86
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This article is absolutely scathing...

http://wgnradio.com/2017/11/15/hoges-10 ... fense/amp/


Edit: just saw it in the OC thread too. Good article
Last edited by BR0D1E86 on Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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BR0D1E86 wrote:This article is absolutely scathing...

http://wgnradio.com/2017/11/15/hoges-10 ... fense/amp/

i was just about to post that. there's alot of great points laid out, too much to copy/paste. well worth a read.
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Posted it in another thread... he really rips Loggains and Fox apart... and he's right.

What alarms me the most is how after each game Mitchell and/or Dowell have said that they weren't prepared for the defenses they faced. Sure, it was unscouted looks, but every fucking week? What exactly are we doing in preparation?
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It blows my mind that the excuse for him not being on the field is that teams are doubling him to take him away. If they're doubling Cohen, does it not open things up for other guys? It's insane.

He also said without saying it that they're letting defenses dictate his substitutions by how they're playing. You're the offense. They're supposed to substitute based on your personnel groupings, not the other way around. That's why they make the offense wait to snap the ball to give the defense time to match up after substituting rather than the other way around.

It's also insane that they appear to be complaining that defenses are playing coverages they didn't expect, so they couldn't possibly be expected to be productive. This is the f-ing NFL. Of course teams are scheming against you. That's their job. It's your job, Loggains, to counter that in some way other than giving up by running Howard head first into 10 man fronts.

His comments this week are basically him talking around the explicit statement that he's completely outmatched by his counterparts every week and doesn't know how to create a scheme that makes his players better unless the defense does exactly what he expects them to do.


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another worthy read about the failings of Fox and Loggains (also posted in the OC thread) :

Bears stupidity holds Tarik Cohen hostage, and that’s why we can’t have nice things
The Bears, see, apparently don’t have anything in their playbook to get their scariest offensive player open if, heaven forbid, an opponent double-teams Cohen. That’s what the Packers did Sunday, and that was it. The Bears surrendered their best weapon at the door. Cohen was on the field for just 13 snaps. He ran the ball once for one yard. He caught one pass for 10. You get tired just counting all of it, don't you?

By the way, that one catch matched Cohen’s single-game high since Mitch Trubisky became the starter. One. One catch for the player the offensive coordinator a month ago called “the best playmaker we have.’’ Not many teams develop game plans aimed at making a potential franchise quarterback worse, but ladies and gentlemen, John Fox’s Bears are right here for you with that.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

And so, a team in desperate need of offense apparently is in desperate need of someone with a whiff of offensive creativity.

Fox said sometimes “the defense dictates who gets the ball."

This is a weak approach, even for one of Fox’s Bears teams. Feel free to curl up into a fetal position.

Bears offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains said they have “to find different ways to get him the ball.’’

Yes. Well. Ahem. Who’s in charge of that?

Like Fox, Loggains said personnel packages are dictated by opposing defensive schemes.

Email the Lions this week and see what plays they’ll approve.
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Boris13c wrote:another worthy read about the failings of Fox and Loggains (also posted in the OC thread) :

Bears stupidity holds Tarik Cohen hostage, and that’s why we can’t have nice things
The Bears, see, apparently don’t have anything in their playbook to get their scariest offensive player open if, heaven forbid, an opponent double-teams Cohen. That’s what the Packers did Sunday, and that was it. The Bears surrendered their best weapon at the door. Cohen was on the field for just 13 snaps. He ran the ball once for one yard. He caught one pass for 10. You get tired just counting all of it, don't you?

By the way, that one catch matched Cohen’s single-game high since Mitch Trubisky became the starter. One. One catch for the player the offensive coordinator a month ago called “the best playmaker we have.’’ Not many teams develop game plans aimed at making a potential franchise quarterback worse, but ladies and gentlemen, John Fox’s Bears are right here for you with that.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

And so, a team in desperate need of offense apparently is in desperate need of someone with a whiff of offensive creativity.

Fox said sometimes “the defense dictates who gets the ball."

This is a weak approach, even for one of Fox’s Bears teams. Feel free to curl up into a fetal position.

Bears offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains said they have “to find different ways to get him the ball.’’

Yes. Well. Ahem. Who’s in charge of that?

Like Fox, Loggains said personnel packages are dictated by opposing defensive schemes.

Email the Lions this week and see what plays they’ll approve.
Ever hear Belichick say this? Reid? Payton?

This is why I want an innovative, aggressive offensive mind paired up with Trubisky.
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G08 wrote:Ever hear Belichick say this? Reid? Payton?

This is why I want an innovative, aggressive offensive mind paired up with Trubisky.
as has been stated more than once, the NFL has simply passed John Fox by ... he is out of touch with how the sport has progressed, and if he truly feels he simply has to remove one of his best players from the game because the defense is scheming against him, then perhaps he is also suffering from early onset Alzheimers
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id also be happy to see some new strength and conditioning coaches come in on a regime change - whoever is filling that role now may as well not come to work.
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I will say it again. The longer that Ryan Pace allows this shit show to go on, the less and less credibility that he will have. Now its possible that the McCaskey's are pulling the 'don't fire John Fox yet' strings. But if that's the case, then we are right back where we were with ownership meddling in things that ought not to be meddled in. I hate this team right now.
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GSH wrote:id also be happy to see some new strength and conditioning coaches come in on a regime change - whoever is filling that role now may as well not come to work.

YES! No one ever thinks about this. The S & C coach is a guy that Fox brought with him from denver. I firmly believe his system is to blame for all the injurie problems since Fox has been here.

Hopefully when Pace boots Fox, he will send that guy packing as well.
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G08 wrote:Posted it in another thread... he really rips Loggains and Fox apart... and he's right.

What alarms me the most is how after each game Mitchell and/or Dowell have said that they weren't prepared for the defenses they faced. Sure, it was unscouted looks, but every fucking week? What exactly are we doing in preparation?
It’s funny how they explain that they have to keep Bellamy on the field because he’s the only WR on the roster who can stretch the field, yet they just cut their fastest WR in Deonte Thompson. What a clown show this is!!! And they bench Tarik Cohen, who is the first Bears player in the past 3 seasons to command a double team, because they are afraid Trubisky will misread the coverages. LMAO!
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Adipost wrote:
G08 wrote:Posted it in another thread... he really rips Loggains and Fox apart... and he's right.

What alarms me the most is how after each game Mitchell and/or Dowell have said that they weren't prepared for the defenses they faced. Sure, it was unscouted looks, but every fucking week? What exactly are we doing in preparation?
It’s funny how they explain that they have to keep Bellamy on the field because he’s the only WR on the roster who can stretch the field, yet they just cut their fastest WR in Deonte Thompson. What a clown show this is!!! And they bench Tarik Cohen, who is the first Bears player in the past 3 seasons to command a double team, because they are afraid Trubisky will misread the coverages. LMAO!
Exactly. And Markus Wheaton isn't exactly a snail, either.

Just dumb.
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Regarding Cohen, I think Loggains knows that when Cohen is on the field, the defense also knows the ball will be going to him. Let's be honest, the pitches outside worked very early in the season but they stopped about the 3rd or 4th game. News flash, this kid can run inside zone too! He is very effective off tackle. Plus, I also feel the biggest issue that isn't being addressed here is the lack of play building. This offense simply doesn't build off of what they set up. Against the pukers, Loggains used Cohen as a decoy, he had some confusion going but then failed to actually give him the ball to show the defense he's not just a bluff. Also they've pounded the rock with Howard but how often do we see play action built off of all those hand offs? How about naked boots? Now I understand that when you get behind the sticks, down and distance becomes a factor limiting which plays are called. Which leads us to the next problem, gaining plus yardage on 1st down. I feel this is where Cohen could be most effective. Lining him up outside on a bubble will create a mismatch, this type of play is safe and is two fold. It shows the defense we will throw on first down and it allows the offense a good opportunity for plus yardage on first down. Once the offense systematically loosens the box, the real MVP (Howard) of this offense can then take over. Remember the games he used to break at least two 20 plus yarders a game?? This kid is also good in space!
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docc wrote:Image
Nice shot there docc. Got yourself a Fox
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6 more weeks of this. I think I can last.
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I am starting to suspect the Fox is really doing Andy Kaufman type performance art. Conner Barth was in on it. Fox's challenge flag is in on it too.
"We don’t know exactly what we’re doing” -- John Fox
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I'm starting to think McDaniels is the best man for the job... sounds like his failures have humbled him, but nobody can deny his play-calling and in-game adjustments as a coordinator. Pairing him with McCoy would give him a familiar voice and someone else with head coaching experience. Curious what he would want to do defensively... but if you want to follow that New Orleans blueprint with Sean Payton... McDaniels IMO is the best fit.

What other choices does he have if he wants a gig this year?

Cleveland is a shit-show and I'm not convinced Jackson is gone.
San Francisco is committed to Shanahan.
NY Giants perhaps if McAdoo is whacked... still they have no QB (Eli is old)
Denver seems committed to Vance, and Elway isn't giving up any control
Indy could be a fit, but would Ballard want to give up final say?

etc.
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I would be ecstatic for McDaniels.
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G08 wrote:I'm starting to think McDaniels is the best man for the job... sounds like his failures have humbled him, but nobody can deny his play-calling and in-game adjustments as a coordinator. Pairing him with McCoy would give him a familiar voice and someone else with head coaching experience. Curious what he would want to do defensively... but if you want to follow that New Orleans blueprint with Sean Payton... McDaniels IMO is the best fit.

What other choices does he have if he wants a gig this year?

Cleveland is a shit-show and I'm not convinced Jackson is gone.
San Francisco is committed to Shanahan.
NY Giants perhaps if McAdoo is whacked... still they have no QB (Eli is old)
Denver seems committed to Vance, and Elway isn't giving up any control
Indy could be a fit, but would Ballard want to give up final say?

etc.
I think McDaniels is a great coordinator. I also think he has an inherent personality flaw that makes him a poor head coaching candidate. He can say he’s a new man and all, but from what I’ve read aboot him in Denver, the shit he pulled was just him being him.
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What are you talking aboot?
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Well, in Denver he supposedly did the following.

Screwing with players, berating them before he had seen them play/practice. (Cutler and others)

Not listening to coordinators, at all.

Wanting too much control then blaming others for personnel failures.

Then he went to St. Louis - as OC, and their offense stunk. Like 12 PPG stunk.

So, for those interested in McDaniels tell me why? Has he ever done anything without a HOF, possibly GOAT, at QB with consistency? Not that he has had a lot of chance but what OC has looked bad with Tom Brady running the show?

What coordinator of Bellicheats has done well in the NFL? Al Groh, Romeo Crenel, Jim Schwartz, Bill O'Brien, Charlie Weiss, Eric Mangini nor McDaniels himself proved worth a crap when they got their own gigs in the NFL.
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