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G08 wrote:
wab wrote:I think your suffering from a little bit of confirmation bias here. He missed a throw. It happens. Lots of QB's with much more experience miss open guys.
It's the hesitation that's killing me. Confirmation bias is probably accurate, I'm terrified this coaching staff is raping the playmaking out of him and these examples are sounding alarms in my head. Look at his huge 4th quarter miss to Bellamy... why did he pause before the throw? Why did he sink his base, pause AGAIN, and then not step into his throw and airmail the ball? He's hesitating... just let it rip kid, believe in what you see.
wab wrote: He's being careful with the ball because he has barely any experience. The last time he tried to throw a guy open, it was a pick 6 and it cost the Bears the game. In fact, being careful with the ball is something we rarely see with a Bears quarterback. It's not going to ruin his killer instinct. NFL defenses are different than anything he's faced in college. And as painful as it is to admit, he really probably just doesn't know where to go with the ball most of the time, or what in the general fuck he's doing out there. When he has time and the offense is clicking, he can be brilliant. But things are breaking down around him way too fast right now, he doesn't have a receiver he can trust, and the playcalling has been inconsistent because of mistakes resulting in bad down and distance situations.
Yeah... that makes a ton of sense to me but it's the Bears, wab. There HAS to be a part of you that is thinking "oh for fuck's sake, here we go again". I know it is for me and that's going to be impacting how I see this kid develop, fair or not. Deshaun Watson at Clemson was in an offense that only read half the field, granted he played in more games and he had better weapons in the NFL than Mitch Trubisky does here, but what's the harm in opening it up for him and letting him play with his gunslinger (his words) style? It just irks me... I get that our roster is shit, but the kid is going to have to learn at some point.
wab wrote: In a list of things that are a problem with this team - boneheaded coaching mistakes, missing 5 of the top receiving targets, injuries to a pro bowl pair of guards, the apparent regression of the star center, constant shuffling of the OL, WR's that can't consistently get open or catch, an inconsistent pass rush, and lack of takeaways...Mitch Trubisky is pretty far down the list.
No matter what this organization does... switches GMs, head coaches, offensive coordinators, quarterbacks, during my lifetime, it always ends up either being not good enough or it goes down in flames. I'm fucking sick of it and I really don't trust anyone in this organization to change anything. I'm sure I'm being more cynical/melodramatic this week than usual, but I'm starting to hit that boiling point of "why the fuck do I keep rooting this team on and expecting the best when they consistently fail?"

For my mindset, it also doesn't help that I'm slowly turning into that crusty old Bears fan that hates ownership. Why? Because I can point to the Cubs, 108 fucking years of futility, and all it took was new ownership's vision and approach to break that curse. I don't see that happening here, ever. And I fucking hate it.
That's irrelevant as all hell, and you know that.

The Cubs not winning a WS for over a century has nothing to do with the Bears. Neither do QB's or HC's who we had decades ago. lol. The Dick Jauron/Rex Grossman/Lovie Smith's of the world have literally nothing to do with the modern-day Chicago Bears.

It's been a rough few years, but Jesus... I don't get this doom/gloom stuff, as if we're the Browns. Prior to 2014, we were pretty much competitive on a yearly basis for nearly a full decade. We went to two NFC Title games and a Super Bowl. You're getting pretty greedy if you're griping about that not lasting forever.
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Not every team can be as consistently good as the Packers or the Pats. Hell, I'd be happy to be the Bengals at this point.

It's great as a fan to want the organization to strive for that, but those two teams are the exception rather than the rule.
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Richie wrote: It's been a rough few years, but Jesus... I don't get this doom/gloom stuff, as if we're the Browns. Prior to 2014, we were pretty much competitive on a yearly basis for nearly a full decade. We went to two NFC Title games and a Super Bowl. You're getting pretty greedy if you're griping about that not lasting forever.
After winning the SB in 1985 (32 years):

3 NFC Championship game appearances, lost 2 of them.
1 Super Bowl appearance (Loss)

248 wins, 253 losses.

That's good enough for you? It's not for me.
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wab wrote:Not every team can be as consistently good as the Packers or the Pats. Hell, I'd be happy to be the Bengals at this point.

It's great as a fan to want the organization to strive for that, but those two teams are the exception rather than the rule.
My point is this team has been less than mediocre (sub .500) the past 32 years. That doesn't sit well with me and it's honestly starting to get old. It certainly doesn't help that the Packers have been kicking my fucking ass the majority of my life.
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Richie wrote: That's irrelevant as all hell, and you know that.

The Cubs not winning a WS for over a century has nothing to do with the Bears. Neither do QB's or HC's who we had decades ago. lol. The Dick Jauron/Rex Grossman/Lovie Smith's of the world have literally nothing to do with the modern-day Chicago Bears.

It's been a rough few years, but Jesus... I don't get this doom/gloom stuff, as if we're the Browns. Prior to 2014, we were pretty much competitive on a yearly basis for nearly a full decade. We went to two NFC Title games and a Super Bowl. You're getting pretty greedy if you're griping about that not lasting forever.
My point is: if you keep failing to reach excellence, at what point do you realize ownership is the problem? Why is Ted Phillips sitting above Ryan Pace (was listening to this on the radio the other day.)? Michael Lombardi said he is involved in decisions inside football operations... why?

Do you know what a joke the Cubs' scouting staff and structure was prior to the Ricketts coming in and hiring Theo Epstein? It's staggering... maybe the McCaskeys simply don't know what they are doing. I don't think that it is a stretch or outrageous to at least entertain the thought. Chris Ballard told ownership he wanted to change the structure of the organization when he interviewed for the GM position, they told him to hit the bricks.
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G08 wrote:
Richie wrote: It's been a rough few years, but Jesus... I don't get this doom/gloom stuff, as if we're the Browns. Prior to 2014, we were pretty much competitive on a yearly basis for nearly a full decade. We went to two NFC Title games and a Super Bowl. You're getting pretty greedy if you're griping about that not lasting forever.
After winning the SB in 1985 (32 years):

3 NFC Championship game appearances, lost 2 of them.
1 Super Bowl appearance (Loss)

248 wins, 253 losses.

That's good enough for you? It's not for me.
people question us old farts about why we keep living in 1985 ... that pretty much explains it

it would be nice if the Bears could become the Patriots and begin a 2 decade run of damn good to excellent ... but I realize that is not a realistic wish given the organization as a whole

what is realistic is for one of the founding franchises of the NFL to get their fucking act together and be a consistently competitive team the city and the fans can be proud of, win lose or draw ... the Bears have done nothing much to be proud of since 1985, with the exception being a sporadic few years here and there
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Boris13c wrote:
G08 wrote:
Richie wrote: It's been a rough few years, but Jesus... I don't get this doom/gloom stuff, as if we're the Browns. Prior to 2014, we were pretty much competitive on a yearly basis for nearly a full decade. We went to two NFC Title games and a Super Bowl. You're getting pretty greedy if you're griping about that not lasting forever.
After winning the SB in 1985 (32 years):

3 NFC Championship game appearances, lost 2 of them.
1 Super Bowl appearance (Loss)

248 wins, 253 losses.

That's good enough for you? It's not for me.
people question us old farts about why we keep living in 1985 ... that pretty much explains it

it would be nice if the Bears could become the Patriots and begin a 2 decade run of damn good to excellent ... but I realize that is not a realistic wish given the organization as a whole

what is realistic is for one of the founding franchises of the NFL to get their fucking act together and be a consistently competitive team the city and the fans can be proud of, win lose or draw ... the Bears have done nothing much to be proud of since 1985, with the exception being a sporadic few years here and there
EXACTLY! This isn't the fucking Jacksonville Jaguars, we are the FOUNDING FRANCHISE of this GOD DAMNED league, and we're a bunch of fucking hacks. That is depressing in my football world.
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The Bears were consistently competitive nearly the entire time Lovie Smith was here. Being a fan of a team in the same division as the Packers/Pats puts your team's margin for error at almost zero. It's not like the NFC South, NFC East, NFC West, AFC South, AFC North, or the AFC West where pretty much any team in that division can win it in any given year.

I think that exacerbates the frustrations of Bears fans.
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I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
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Hematite wrote:I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
Ahh, another cynic. Welcome to the darkside, my friend :lol:
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G08 wrote:
Hematite wrote:I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
Ahh, another cynic. Welcome to the darkside, my friend :lol:
I understand that they want to protect their future QB by running the ball, but just like helicopter parenting, too much protection becomes harmful. You and others have already shown stats of distance to gain on many of his throws. It's maddening. Maybe we (some of us) are over reacting, I don't know. But like you, I'm scared that they are turning him into a complete game manager and reducing his skill set. Game managers don't seem to win Super Bowls anymore because of the rule changes and they hardly keep their teams at the top of their divisions year in and year out.

Give me a Stafford (gun slinger) any day over a game manager and I'll deal with the INT's here and there!

EDIT> To everybody that wants to throw the Cutler saga into this post, I understand. Personally, I loved Cutler and he was the best Bears QB that probably most on this board have witnessed in a Bears uniform. Cutler unfortunately didn't have a high enough TD/INT ratio (which can be blamed partly on lack of weapons for many years). But that ship has sailed. Question now becomes, would you be happy if Trubisky was turned into a game manager in the mold of a John Fox QB?
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Oh absolutely there's a level of over-reaction on my end. I just felt so confident about this fucking team going into last weeks game and we predictably shit the bed. I'm just fed up, I guess, of trying to pour everything I have into this shit franchise and literally have nothing to show for it.

Sure enough, I'll probably be glued to the TV every remaining game.
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Hematite wrote:I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
I don't think this staff is going to ruin him in any way shape or form. But, I don't think these are the guys to get everything possible out of him and maximize his talent.
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G08 wrote:Oh absolutely there's a level of over-reaction on my end. I just felt so confident about this fucking team going into last weeks game and we predictably shit the bed. I'm just fed up, I guess, of trying to pour everything I have into this shit franchise and literally have nothing to show for it.

Sure enough, I'll probably be glued to the TV every remaining game.
Yeah my own overconfidence evaporated on our first play from scrimmage when we run up the middle for minus 3 yards. That was when I felt pretty sure we were going to lose.
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Hematite wrote:
G08 wrote:
Hematite wrote:I still agree with G08 that this coaching staff will do more harm than good for the future of Trubisky's growth.
Ahh, another cynic. Welcome to the darkside, my friend :lol:
I understand that they want to protect their future QB by running the ball, but just like helicopter parenting, too much protection becomes harmful. You and others have already shown stats of distance to gain on many of his throws. It's maddening. Maybe we (some of us) are over reacting, I don't know. But like you, I'm scared that they are turning him into a complete game manager and reducing his skill set. Game managers don't seem to win Super Bowls anymore because of the rule changes and they hardly keep their teams at the top of their divisions year in and year out.

Give me a Stafford (gun slinger) any day over a game manager and I'll deal with the INT's here and there!

EDIT> To everybody that wants to throw the Cutler saga into this post, I understand. Personally, I loved Cutler and he was the best Bears QB that probably most on this board have witnessed in a Bears uniform. Cutler unfortunately didn't have a high enough TD/INT ratio (which can be blamed partly on lack of weapons for many years). But that ship has sailed. Question now becomes, would you be happy if Trubisky was turned into a game manager in the mold of a John Fox QB?

First, I highly dislike the term "game manager". IMO, it's just an ignorant term overly used and viewed by most in football world as a negative. I'm going with Primetime on this one. It's like the term "cover corner", every single CB covers the receiver just like every single QB manages the game. A game manager to me is a QB with a high completion rating and low turnover line. He takes what the defense gives him and doesn't force the football where it doesn't belong. He understands that he can't put his team in a bad position. He knows when to hold em' and knows when to fold em'. Most of the time, these QBs are accompanied by a very good defense. If we have to use that term, I ultimately think of Alex Smith and would also put Russell Wilson in the bunch.

Now to answer your question. Would you be happy if Trubisky was turned into a game manager in the mold of a John Fox QB?

Absolutely not!

IMO, that's why Fox will be gone after this season. Fox is conservative to a fault and plays not to loose more than he plays to win. If my mother can call out what the Bears are doing on offense and what they should be doing, Pace sure and the hell can see it also. I don't believe Pace will go down with the Fox ship. Fox was brought to the Bears for 1 reason and he has, for the most part, accomplished that. Fox is a foundation layer not a finish carpenter. It's time to bring in the right coach that will put the finishing touches on this team. For the most part, the defense is poised, now they need to solidify their franchise QB and Fox dictatorship style just isn't going to cut it in today's NFL.
Last edited by Funkster on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#Bears are 0-3 vs. NFC North teams in 2017.

They are 3-12 against the division in the last three years.
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Trubisky needs his McVay type of offensive coach to work with him and bring things along. It's not like Goff has a slew of weapons, but we're all seeing what's been transpiring down there.

I don't hate Fox, but much like Jeff Fisher... the game just passed him by at some point. IMO
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Richie wrote:Trubisky needs his McVay type of offensive coach to work with him and bring things along. It's not like Goff has a slew of weapons, but we're all seeing what's been transpiring down there.

I don't hate Fox, but much like Jeff Fisher... the game just passed him by at some point. IMO
Agreed. Get that young, innovative offensive mind in here and time him to Trubisky. Goff has better weapons than we currently do; those need to be upgraded by Pace both in FA and the draft.
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This article is absolutely scathing...

http://wgnradio.com/2017/11/15/hoges-10 ... fense/amp/


Edit: just saw it in the OC thread too. Good article
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BR0D1E86 wrote:This article is absolutely scathing...

http://wgnradio.com/2017/11/15/hoges-10 ... fense/amp/

i was just about to post that. there's alot of great points laid out, too much to copy/paste. well worth a read.
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Posted it in another thread... he really rips Loggains and Fox apart... and he's right.

What alarms me the most is how after each game Mitchell and/or Dowell have said that they weren't prepared for the defenses they faced. Sure, it was unscouted looks, but every fucking week? What exactly are we doing in preparation?
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It blows my mind that the excuse for him not being on the field is that teams are doubling him to take him away. If they're doubling Cohen, does it not open things up for other guys? It's insane.

He also said without saying it that they're letting defenses dictate his substitutions by how they're playing. You're the offense. They're supposed to substitute based on your personnel groupings, not the other way around. That's why they make the offense wait to snap the ball to give the defense time to match up after substituting rather than the other way around.

It's also insane that they appear to be complaining that defenses are playing coverages they didn't expect, so they couldn't possibly be expected to be productive. This is the f-ing NFL. Of course teams are scheming against you. That's their job. It's your job, Loggains, to counter that in some way other than giving up by running Howard head first into 10 man fronts.

His comments this week are basically him talking around the explicit statement that he's completely outmatched by his counterparts every week and doesn't know how to create a scheme that makes his players better unless the defense does exactly what he expects them to do.


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another worthy read about the failings of Fox and Loggains (also posted in the OC thread) :

Bears stupidity holds Tarik Cohen hostage, and that’s why we can’t have nice things
The Bears, see, apparently don’t have anything in their playbook to get their scariest offensive player open if, heaven forbid, an opponent double-teams Cohen. That’s what the Packers did Sunday, and that was it. The Bears surrendered their best weapon at the door. Cohen was on the field for just 13 snaps. He ran the ball once for one yard. He caught one pass for 10. You get tired just counting all of it, don't you?

By the way, that one catch matched Cohen’s single-game high since Mitch Trubisky became the starter. One. One catch for the player the offensive coordinator a month ago called “the best playmaker we have.’’ Not many teams develop game plans aimed at making a potential franchise quarterback worse, but ladies and gentlemen, John Fox’s Bears are right here for you with that.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

And so, a team in desperate need of offense apparently is in desperate need of someone with a whiff of offensive creativity.

Fox said sometimes “the defense dictates who gets the ball."

This is a weak approach, even for one of Fox’s Bears teams. Feel free to curl up into a fetal position.

Bears offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains said they have “to find different ways to get him the ball.’’

Yes. Well. Ahem. Who’s in charge of that?

Like Fox, Loggains said personnel packages are dictated by opposing defensive schemes.

Email the Lions this week and see what plays they’ll approve.
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Boris13c wrote:another worthy read about the failings of Fox and Loggains (also posted in the OC thread) :

Bears stupidity holds Tarik Cohen hostage, and that’s why we can’t have nice things
The Bears, see, apparently don’t have anything in their playbook to get their scariest offensive player open if, heaven forbid, an opponent double-teams Cohen. That’s what the Packers did Sunday, and that was it. The Bears surrendered their best weapon at the door. Cohen was on the field for just 13 snaps. He ran the ball once for one yard. He caught one pass for 10. You get tired just counting all of it, don't you?

By the way, that one catch matched Cohen’s single-game high since Mitch Trubisky became the starter. One. One catch for the player the offensive coordinator a month ago called “the best playmaker we have.’’ Not many teams develop game plans aimed at making a potential franchise quarterback worse, but ladies and gentlemen, John Fox’s Bears are right here for you with that.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.

And so, a team in desperate need of offense apparently is in desperate need of someone with a whiff of offensive creativity.

Fox said sometimes “the defense dictates who gets the ball."

This is a weak approach, even for one of Fox’s Bears teams. Feel free to curl up into a fetal position.

Bears offensive coordinator Dowell Loggains said they have “to find different ways to get him the ball.’’

Yes. Well. Ahem. Who’s in charge of that?

Like Fox, Loggains said personnel packages are dictated by opposing defensive schemes.

Email the Lions this week and see what plays they’ll approve.
Ever hear Belichick say this? Reid? Payton?

This is why I want an innovative, aggressive offensive mind paired up with Trubisky.
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G08 wrote:Ever hear Belichick say this? Reid? Payton?

This is why I want an innovative, aggressive offensive mind paired up with Trubisky.
as has been stated more than once, the NFL has simply passed John Fox by ... he is out of touch with how the sport has progressed, and if he truly feels he simply has to remove one of his best players from the game because the defense is scheming against him, then perhaps he is also suffering from early onset Alzheimers
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id also be happy to see some new strength and conditioning coaches come in on a regime change - whoever is filling that role now may as well not come to work.
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I will say it again. The longer that Ryan Pace allows this shit show to go on, the less and less credibility that he will have. Now its possible that the McCaskey's are pulling the 'don't fire John Fox yet' strings. But if that's the case, then we are right back where we were with ownership meddling in things that ought not to be meddled in. I hate this team right now.
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GSH wrote:id also be happy to see some new strength and conditioning coaches come in on a regime change - whoever is filling that role now may as well not come to work.

YES! No one ever thinks about this. The S & C coach is a guy that Fox brought with him from denver. I firmly believe his system is to blame for all the injurie problems since Fox has been here.

Hopefully when Pace boots Fox, he will send that guy packing as well.
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G08 wrote:Posted it in another thread... he really rips Loggains and Fox apart... and he's right.

What alarms me the most is how after each game Mitchell and/or Dowell have said that they weren't prepared for the defenses they faced. Sure, it was unscouted looks, but every fucking week? What exactly are we doing in preparation?
It’s funny how they explain that they have to keep Bellamy on the field because he’s the only WR on the roster who can stretch the field, yet they just cut their fastest WR in Deonte Thompson. What a clown show this is!!! And they bench Tarik Cohen, who is the first Bears player in the past 3 seasons to command a double team, because they are afraid Trubisky will misread the coverages. LMAO!
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Adipost wrote:
G08 wrote:Posted it in another thread... he really rips Loggains and Fox apart... and he's right.

What alarms me the most is how after each game Mitchell and/or Dowell have said that they weren't prepared for the defenses they faced. Sure, it was unscouted looks, but every fucking week? What exactly are we doing in preparation?
It’s funny how they explain that they have to keep Bellamy on the field because he’s the only WR on the roster who can stretch the field, yet they just cut their fastest WR in Deonte Thompson. What a clown show this is!!! And they bench Tarik Cohen, who is the first Bears player in the past 3 seasons to command a double team, because they are afraid Trubisky will misread the coverages. LMAO!
Exactly. And Markus Wheaton isn't exactly a snail, either.

Just dumb.
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