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Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:09 am
by mshu7
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
G08 wrote:
Hiphopopotamos wrote:While Kubiak would definitely be an improvement - I'd prefer a little more 'vertical' offense for Trubisky. I'd also like a guy who has shown some ability to incorporate more of the 'college' schemes we're seeing in places like KC and Philly.
Ditto, I believe that's the way the game is going.

See the Rams yesterday? Jesus.
Who is their OC, LaFluer? I'd take im as a HC/OC.
Except LeFluer doesn't call the plays. He's just the OC in title. Sean McVay is the brains behind that operation.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:51 am
by malk
I find it really hard to grade Loggains this year. Between the abject lack of receivers, the inexperienced rookie QB, a defence that has been lights out and a conservative head coach.

I thought he did well with the QB shitshow last year which inclines me to give him a pass for now. Overall I suspect that his tenure is tied to Fox's for at least next year. With a new HC he's gone (perhaps unless that HC is Fangio which I don't expect). If Fox stays, so does he.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:13 am
by Bears Whiskey Nut
mshu7 wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
G08 wrote:
Hiphopopotamos wrote:While Kubiak would definitely be an improvement - I'd prefer a little more 'vertical' offense for Trubisky. I'd also like a guy who has shown some ability to incorporate more of the 'college' schemes we're seeing in places like KC and Philly.
Ditto, I believe that's the way the game is going.

See the Rams yesterday? Jesus.
Who is their OC, LaFluer? I'd take im as a HC/OC.
Except LeFluer doesn't call the plays. He's just the OC in title. Sean McVay is the brains behind that operation.
OK...good to know. I wasn't aware.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:43 am
by G08
mshu7 wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
G08 wrote:
Hiphopopotamos wrote:While Kubiak would definitely be an improvement - I'd prefer a little more 'vertical' offense for Trubisky. I'd also like a guy who has shown some ability to incorporate more of the 'college' schemes we're seeing in places like KC and Philly.
Ditto, I believe that's the way the game is going.

See the Rams yesterday? Jesus.
Who is their OC, LaFluer? I'd take im as a HC/OC.
Except LeFluer doesn't call the plays. He's just the OC in title. Sean McVay is the brains behind that operation.
Yeah, it's all McVay.

If Dowell Loggains is such a "Jedi master", why can't he incorporate some of what the Rams and Chiefs are doing? We have (some) of the personnel to run it effectively, damnit!

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:52 am
by G08
Fox said that the game plans have been the way they are because of protection and the matchups we have with our receivers and tight ends.

So... we can't protect the kid, and our receiving targets suck, basically. With Miller going down, he thinks that Shaheen will probably be utilized more.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:55 am
by Boris13c
the Bears WR's

Image

some sad shit right there ... Loggains needs to pull his head out and have his receivers do the same

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:06 pm
by malk
G08 wrote:
If Dowell Loggains is such a "Jedi master", why can't he incorporate some of what the Rams and Chiefs are doing? We have (some) of the personnel to run it effectively, damnit!
Bit harsh! When the bits that the some doesn't incorporate are QB and receivers it does make it pretty difficult. Sure Trubisky has some talent but we all knew he was going to be raw and it's clear that he's being protected from doing too much.

I really feel it'll be virtually impossible to grade Loggains' season with anything but an incomplete*.

*No pun intended but I'm quite happy with the outcome.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:49 pm
by BearBudMan
I know I'm in the minority here, but I'm all for keeping Loggains next year. I think the consistency of working with the same oc will greatly benefit Mitch. Loggains isn't a world beater, but I see potential and would like to see what he could do with a hc who lets him open things up. I saw this on the other day and thought it was informative and gave a little insight into the play calling. I'm not sure if it's been posted on here yet, if so my apologies.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, I'm not sure why he keeps mentioning C.J. Beathard on the video. Comparison maybe?

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:07 pm
by Boris13c
BearBudMan wrote:

Also, I'm not sure why he keeps mentioning C.J. Beathard on the video. Comparison maybe?
or maybe just an idiot doing his best to try to imitate professional talking heads and being bad at it? if you're going to waste the time to throw a video on youtube, the least you should be able to do is get the players and teams right

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:06 pm
by southdakbearfan
Face it, Loggains has been tasked with trying to make a gallon of chicken salad with a half a cup of chicken shit.

We literally have Zero WR's and blocking talent/unproven TE's playing with a rookie QB. He could call a flea flicker every play, have all 11 men on defense bite and our WR's would be running bubble screens, fall down, go out of bounds, trip running into a ref or drop the ball.

Seriously, our receivers are like watching a benny hill comedy re-run.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:30 pm
by Wounded Bear
southdakbearfan wrote:Face it, Loggains has been tasked with trying to make a gallon of chicken salad with a half a cup of chicken shit.

We literally have Zero WR's and blocking talent/unproven TE's playing with a rookie QB. He could call a flea flicker every play, have all 11 men on defense bite and our WR's would be running bubble screens, fall down, go out of bounds, trip running into a ref or drop the ball.

Seriously, our receivers are like watching a benny hill comedy re-run.
But that's the weird thing then because our wideouts have pretty decent speed. They're all in the 4.4 range which is plenty fast. Not the fastest, but fast enough. We just got rid of Deonte Thompson who runs a 4.23. He should've either gotten open or his presence should of allowed someone else to get open.

So are they running bad routes (which is coaching) or does the play design suck (coaching)? I keep thinking that if Bill Belichick had this crew of wideouts, his O.C. would devise clever schemes to compensate for their weaknesses.

I could be wrong, but I think Dowell could do better.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:14 pm
by southdakbearfan
Wounded Bear wrote:
southdakbearfan wrote:Face it, Loggains has been tasked with trying to make a gallon of chicken salad with a half a cup of chicken shit.

We literally have Zero WR's and blocking talent/unproven TE's playing with a rookie QB. He could call a flea flicker every play, have all 11 men on defense bite and our WR's would be running bubble screens, fall down, go out of bounds, trip running into a ref or drop the ball.

Seriously, our receivers are like watching a benny hill comedy re-run.
But that's the weird thing then because our wideouts have pretty decent speed. They're all in the 4.4 range which is plenty fast. Not the fastest, but fast enough. We just got rid of Deonte Thompson who runs a 4.23. He should've either gotten open or his presence should of allowed someone else to get open.

So are they running bad routes (which is coaching) or does the play design suck (coaching)? I keep thinking that if Bill Belichick had this crew of wideouts, his O.C. would devise clever schemes to compensate for their weaknesses.

I could be wrong, but I think Dowell could do better.
Established Veteran QB's and Good QB's make poor Wr's OK.

Rookie QB's make poor WR's look like what they are.

When I look at a WR speed is about 3rd on the priority list for me. I'll take good routes and hands over flat out speed any day of the week.

Coaching may have something to do with it, but look at these guys.

Bellamy, Joshua UDFA - Crap for Hands, good routes, special teams player only.

Gentry, Tanner UDFA - Unproven, bad routes, hands? jump ball specialist in college? Has anyone seen enough to know?

Inman, Dontrelle UDFA - showed potential last year, with a good QB throwing him the ball? Honed his craft in the CFL prior to NFL. Hasn't played yet.

McBride III, Tre 7th Rd, Cut by Titans - not enough tape to judge anything??

Wheaton, Markus 3rd Rd, Started less than half his games, let go by steelers, perpetually snake bit with nagging injuries. Probably WR3 or 4 on a good team.

Wright, Kendall 1st Rd, Hasn't had a decent season since 2014 - Eddie Royal Part II, good routes and hands but probably a WR3 on a decent team.

So, from that list which guy just oozes that we are not getting out of them what they potentially are? Which guy on that list is a guy that can get open more often than not?

So we have a WR3, WR3-4, Inman who is what? and 3 guys that would be special teams only or not on another NFL roster.

Personally, if they want to win games now and not work on development, as much as I hate to say it, Hands like feet Bellamy needs to play because he can get open and runs good routes.

Bill Bellecheck's no name guys, two 1st rounders, 4th rd, 5th rd, 7th rd, 3 UDFA.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:47 am
by Boris13c
southdakbearfan wrote:Face it, Loggains has been tasked with trying to make a gallon of chicken salad with a half a cup of chicken shit.
comes with the job

he needs to be able to come up with a gameplan that works with the players he has, not those he wishes he had ... and if he needs different players because he simply can't work with what he has, he needs to make that lound and clear to Fox and Pace for them to do something about

southdakbearfan wrote:We literally have Zero WR's and blocking talent/unproven TE's playing with a rookie QB. He could call a flea flicker every play, have all 11 men on defense bite and our WR's would be running bubble screens, fall down, go out of bounds, trip running into a ref or drop the ball.

Seriously, our receivers are like watching a benny hill comedy re-run.
except our receivers slapstick routine isn't particularly funny

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:50 am
by Boris13c
southdakbearfan wrote:
Wounded Bear wrote:
southdakbearfan wrote:Face it, Loggains has been tasked with trying to make a gallon of chicken salad with a half a cup of chicken shit.

We literally have Zero WR's and blocking talent/unproven TE's playing with a rookie QB. He could call a flea flicker every play, have all 11 men on defense bite and our WR's would be running bubble screens, fall down, go out of bounds, trip running into a ref or drop the ball.

Seriously, our receivers are like watching a benny hill comedy re-run.
But that's the weird thing then because our wideouts have pretty decent speed. They're all in the 4.4 range which is plenty fast. Not the fastest, but fast enough. We just got rid of Deonte Thompson who runs a 4.23. He should've either gotten open or his presence should of allowed someone else to get open.

So are they running bad routes (which is coaching) or does the play design suck (coaching)? I keep thinking that if Bill Belichick had this crew of wideouts, his O.C. would devise clever schemes to compensate for their weaknesses.

I could be wrong, but I think Dowell could do better.
Established Veteran QB's and Good QB's make poor Wr's OK.

Rookie QB's make poor WR's look like what they are.

When I look at a WR speed is about 3rd on the priority list for me. I'll take good routes and hands over flat out speed any day of the week.

Coaching may have something to do with it, but look at these guys.

Bellamy, Joshua UDFA - Crap for Hands, good routes, special teams player only.

Gentry, Tanner UDFA - Unproven, bad routes, hands? jump ball specialist in college? Has anyone seen enough to know?

Inman, Dontrelle UDFA - showed potential last year, with a good QB throwing him the ball? Honed his craft in the CFL prior to NFL. Hasn't played yet.

McBride III, Tre 7th Rd, Cut by Titans - not enough tape to judge anything??

Wheaton, Markus 3rd Rd, Started less than half his games, let go by steelers, perpetually snake bit with nagging injuries. Probably WR3 or 4 on a good team.

Wright, Kendall 1st Rd, Hasn't had a decent season since 2014 - Eddie Royal Part II, good routes and hands but probably a WR3 on a decent team.

So, from that list which guy just oozes that we are not getting out of them what they potentially are? Which guy on that list is a guy that can get open more often than not?

So we have a WR3, WR3-4, Inman who is what? and 3 guys that would be special teams only or not on another NFL roster.

Personally, if they want to win games now and not work on development, as much as I hate to say it, Hands like feet Bellamy needs to play because he can get open and runs good routes.

Bill Bellecheck's no name guys, two 1st rounders, 4th rd, 5th rd, 7th rd, 3 UDFA.


Wright and McBride seem to be the only 2 who can regularly contribute ... I'm hoping Inman can step in an become the guy ... maybe not a legit #1 on other teams, but the closest we have?

the rest should have been gone during the bye week and new candidates from the raided practice squads of better teams brought in as replacements

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:00 am
by G08
The more I watch Inman the more I like him... my only worry is that I haven't seen him jammed much so I don't know if it is something he can handle. Reminds me a shit-ton of Cameron Meredith, which is a good thing in my book.

Wheaton might be playing this week... curious if we line up like:

X - Inman
Z - Wheaton
F - Wright

McBride gets sprinkled in if our dudes are having issues getting off jams, etc.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:54 am
by Adipost
G08 wrote:The more I watch Inman the more I like him... my only worry is that I haven't seen him jammed much so I don't know if it is something he can handle. Reminds me a shit-ton of Cameron Meredith, which is a good thing in my book.

Wheaton might be playing this week... curious if we line up like:

X - Inman
Z - Wheaton
F - Wright

McBride gets sprinkled in if our dudes are having issues getting off jams, etc.
They are very similar players, both are tall wide receivers that do all their damage in the slot.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:49 pm
by Mikefive
Wounded Bear wrote:
southdakbearfan wrote:Face it, Loggains has been tasked with trying to make a gallon of chicken salad with a half a cup of chicken shit.

We literally have Zero WR's and blocking talent/unproven TE's playing with a rookie QB. He could call a flea flicker every play, have all 11 men on defense bite and our WR's would be running bubble screens, fall down, go out of bounds, trip running into a ref or drop the ball.

Seriously, our receivers are like watching a benny hill comedy re-run.
But that's the weird thing then because our wideouts have pretty decent speed. They're all in the 4.4 range which is plenty fast. Not the fastest, but fast enough. We just got rid of Deonte Thompson who runs a 4.23. He should've either gotten open or his presence should of allowed someone else to get open.

So are they running bad routes (which is coaching) or does the play design suck (coaching)? I keep thinking that if Bill Belichick had this crew of wideouts, his O.C. would devise clever schemes to compensate for their weaknesses.

I could be wrong, but I think Dowell could do better.
I think this is a really harsh view. First of all, just because a guy has really good straight line speed doesn't mean he can run NFL pass routes. So to basically say they're fast enough, so the coach must be the problem is a wild oversimplification. Guys have to be able to escape the jam for starters. Then they have to be able to make 90 degree cuts or stop from full speed with swift deceleration and reacceleration. And they have to be able to add a little subtle deception, to throw off their defenders a bit. That's a REALLY difficult art against starting NFL CBs, which is why there's only a few dozen guys who can do it well.

Sure, there may be some things Dowell could do better. But you can't reasonably just throw him under the bus because our non-starter quality WRs can't get open. I'll grant you that Loggains isn't Belichick. But who else is?

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:07 pm
by G08
Speed isn't the end-all/be-all when it comes to route-running. Kevin White is a 4.35 guy and runs routes like a 4.60 guy.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:34 pm
by Wounded Bear
Mikefive wrote:
Wounded Bear wrote:
southdakbearfan wrote:Face it, Loggains has been tasked with trying to make a gallon of chicken salad with a half a cup of chicken shit.

We literally have Zero WR's and blocking talent/unproven TE's playing with a rookie QB. He could call a flea flicker every play, have all 11 men on defense bite and our WR's would be running bubble screens, fall down, go out of bounds, trip running into a ref or drop the ball.

Seriously, our receivers are like watching a benny hill comedy re-run.
But that's the weird thing then because our wideouts have pretty decent speed. They're all in the 4.4 range which is plenty fast. Not the fastest, but fast enough. We just got rid of Deonte Thompson who runs a 4.23. He should've either gotten open or his presence should of allowed someone else to get open.

So are they running bad routes (which is coaching) or does the play design suck (coaching)? I keep thinking that if Bill Belichick had this crew of wideouts, his O.C. would devise clever schemes to compensate for their weaknesses.

I could be wrong, but I think Dowell could do better.
I think this is a really harsh view. First of all, just because a guy has really good straight line speed doesn't mean he can run NFL pass routes.
Yeah, dude, that's why I mentioned route design and route running in my initial post...
Mikefive wrote:So to basically say they're fast enough, so the coach must be the problem is a wild oversimplification.

Except for the fact that route running can be taught and speed cannot...
Mikefive wrote:[Guys have to be able to escape the jam for starters. Then they have to be able to make 90 degree cuts or stop from full speed with swift deceleration and reacceleration. And they have to be able to add a little subtle deception, to throw off their defenders a bit. That's a REALLY difficult art against starting NFL CBs, which is why there's only a few dozen guys who can do it well.
Yes, thank you for explaining route running, a factor that I mentioned in my initial post. A skill that can be taught.
Mikefive wrote:[Sure, there may be some things Dowell could do better. But you can't reasonably just throw him under the bus because our non-starter quality WRs can't get open. I'll grant you that Loggains isn't Belichick. But who else is?
Yes I can, since it is a skill that is taught or coached and that is a problem with coaching.

Deonte Thompson, another shitty Bears receiver who can't get open, compiles a paltry 125 yards in 4 games for the Bears as a wideout, but shuffles off to Buffalo and puts together 188 yards in 2 games.

It comes down to what draft pundits, former coaches, scouts, and former players say every draft (you know, guys who have experience at the highest level of the game), route running is a skill that can be taught, speed is something that either you have or you don't. Our wideouts have decent speed. Your move Bears coaching staff.

I guess what really gets me is seeing talent around the NFL where teams have coached up talent that we have jettisoned, but our fan base accustomed to mediocrity makes excuses for this loser mentality. It's what makes me think that this team, especially our fan base, deserves the likes of John Fox and Dowell Loggains.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:05 am
by Richie
G08 wrote:Reminds me a shit-ton of Cameron Meredith, which is a good thing in my book..
I was thinking the exact same thing this week. Very similar look out there.

Read a lot of Chargers fans on other forums saying that we got a steal, to be honest. He's well liked out there.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:10 am
by G08
Richie wrote:
G08 wrote:Reminds me a shit-ton of Cameron Meredith, which is a good thing in my book..
I was thinking the exact same thing this week. Very similar look out there.

Read a lot of Chargers fans on other forums saying that we got a steal, to be honest. He's well liked out there.
Please share!

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:10 am
by Adipost
Are Fox and company capable of doing something like this for Trubisky?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l2QEiF8r7mGB7umhG/giphy.gif

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 9:26 am
by alexwilkins
Adipost wrote:Are Fox and company capable of doing something like this for Trubisky?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l2QEiF8r7mGB7umhG/giphy.gif
This isn’t an all-that complex play, but Foxy is a DC, so no. Dowell, maybe.

I will note, that’s a look at Watson’s ability to go through progression, or find his #1. That’s a TD if it’s thrown on time.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:56 am
by G08
Adipost wrote:Are Fox and company capable of doing something like this for Trubisky?

https://media.giphy.com/media/l2QEiF8r7mGB7umhG/giphy.gif
Nope.

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:11 am
by G08
Some damning stuff on Loggains and Fox...

http://wgnradio.com/2017/11/15/hoges-10 ... s-offense/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:18 am
by Boris13c
G08 wrote:Some damning stuff on Loggains and Fox...

http://wgnradio.com/2017/11/15/hoges-10 ... s-offense/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
as if we actually needed more evidence

Fox making his idiot statements after the Goon Bay game really surprised me - "well, we can't play our most effective offensive player because we know the defense is trying to take him away"

wtf kind of statement was that from a head coach?

is their plan to be so passive on offense so they don't upset the opposing defense?

more evidence of the stupid :

Bears stupidity holds Tarik Cohen hostage, and that’s why we can’t have nice things
Anybody have a pick route the Bears can borrow?

How about a crossing route? Does someone have a spare the Bears can use to get Tarik Cohen open?

The Bears, see, apparently don’t have anything in their playbook to get their scariest offensive player open if, heaven forbid, an opponent double-teams Cohen. That’s what the Packers did Sunday, and that was it. The Bears surrendered their best weapon at the door. Cohen was on the field for just 13 snaps. He ran the ball once for one yard. He caught one pass for 10. You get tired just counting all of it, don't you?

By the way, that one catch matched Cohen’s single-game high since Mitch Trubisky became the starter. One. One catch for the player the offensive coordinator a month ago called “the best playmaker we have.’’ Not many teams develop game plans aimed at making a potential franchise quarterback worse, but ladies and gentlemen, John Fox’s Bears are right here for you with that.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.
:angry:

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:19 pm
by bearsfaninaz
I'd say I'm shocked about these comments from Fox and Loggains just that I'm not anymore

Re: If we have an OC opening next year...

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 6:42 pm
by Wounded Bear
Boris13c wrote:
G08 wrote:Some damning stuff on Loggains and Fox...

http://wgnradio.com/2017/11/15/hoges-10 ... s-offense/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
as if we actually needed more evidence

Fox making his idiot statements after the Goon Bay game really surprised me - "well, we can't play our most effective offensive player because we know the defense is trying to take him away"

wtf kind of statement was that from a head coach?

is their plan to be so passive on offense so they don't upset the opposing defense?

more evidence of the stupid :

Bears stupidity holds Tarik Cohen hostage, and that’s why we can’t have nice things
Anybody have a pick route the Bears can borrow?

How about a crossing route? Does someone have a spare the Bears can use to get Tarik Cohen open?

The Bears, see, apparently don’t have anything in their playbook to get their scariest offensive player open if, heaven forbid, an opponent double-teams Cohen. That’s what the Packers did Sunday, and that was it. The Bears surrendered their best weapon at the door. Cohen was on the field for just 13 snaps. He ran the ball once for one yard. He caught one pass for 10. You get tired just counting all of it, don't you?

By the way, that one catch matched Cohen’s single-game high since Mitch Trubisky became the starter. One. One catch for the player the offensive coordinator a month ago called “the best playmaker we have.’’ Not many teams develop game plans aimed at making a potential franchise quarterback worse, but ladies and gentlemen, John Fox’s Bears are right here for you with that.

The Bears can’t figure out how to spring a fast guy and can’t figure out how to use him enough as a decoy to make other players better. The Stupid-O-Meter needs a new motherboard. And that's why we can't have nice things.
:angry:
Part of the problem is that we have a young QB who is flat out missing the open receivers. I saw a ton of open receivers last Sunday against Green Bay.

It was too soon to start this kid and now we're seeing why.