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Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:44 pm
by 46Blitz
For awhile I have been comparing Trubisky to Wilson. I just see a lot of similarities in the two and how Trubisky should be developed with the same blueprint. Though I view Trubisky developing into a slightly better pocket passer, they both have a skill set and style that is very close. When Wilson started his career as a rookie week one, not much was asked of him. They had a good defense and relied on the run game. Much like the Bears now. Over time as Wilson gained experience they asked more of him each year. In fact, each year his number steadily increased. I encourage you to look at his numbers.

Anyhow, through both of their first 5 games as rookies I just looked at their stats. They are very close. The only major differences (or not so major) are completions who Wilson has 20 more, but Wilson also has 4 more interceptions. Wilson also has 2 more TDs, however we all know Trubisky could easily had 2 more if you have been watching. Either way, both comparisons are very close. Here is the breakdown...

Wilson - Trubisky

ATT ------125/115
COMP ----79/59
YARDS---815/809
TD-----------5/3
INT----------6/2
RUSH-------25/15
RYARD---92/110
*Sacks-----10/16
*FumL-------1/2

*Updated

Although each player and situation is different, I find this to be more telling than comparing other QBs to Mitch. I am sure more can be dug up on these two. Like pressures, sacks, etc. But this is just general stuff and supports my thoughts of the two.

So every time I see someone flipping their lid after a loss and saying how Trubisky "isn't that good" I have to stay confident in him as a fan and realize he just played his 5th stinking game. Also, with each sack taken or missed WR.... I just know it could be soooo much worse and he can get so much better in time.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:50 pm
by docc
^^ Agreed..
Also look at the coach differences between what Wilson had and HAS and what Trubisky has had..and the experience difference coming from college,,

Trubs has the tools to be the GOODS..

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:30 am
by mmmc_35
docc wrote:^^ Agreed..
Also look at the coach differences between what Wilson had and HAS and what Trubisky has had..and the experience difference coming from college,,

Trubs has the tools to be the GOODS..
Trubs has more tools them Wilson. Wilson had those tools honed much more in college and a NFL gamelan to help him. Trubs hasn't had either.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:40 am
by Hematite
mmmc_35 wrote:
docc wrote:^^ Agreed..
Also look at the coach differences between what Wilson had and HAS and what Trubisky has had..and the experience difference coming from college,,

Trubs has the tools to be the GOODS..
Trubs has more tools them Wilson. Wilson had those tools honed much more in college and a NFL gamelan to help him. Trubs hasn't had either.
Add to the fact the weapons Wilson has had. It's far to early one way or the other in determining Trub's future greatness/bust.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:53 pm
by 46Blitz
Hematite wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:
docc wrote:^^ Agreed..
Also look at the coach differences between what Wilson had and HAS and what Trubisky has had..and the experience difference coming from college,,

Trubs has the tools to be the GOODS..
Trubs has more tools them Wilson. Wilson had those tools honed much more in college and a NFL gamelan to help him. Trubs hasn't had either.
Add to the fact the weapons Wilson has had. It's far to early one way or the other in determining Trub's future greatness/bust.
Good point on WRs, however at the time Wilson didn't exactly have world beaters. Think they had Tate? I don't remember who else. Certainly better than ours regardless.

Think this all is fun to watch. Bears never really had a QB that I truly felt that would turn into anything. I do now. Obviously time will tell but my gut says so. I am yet to see anything that was "bad" from him thus far. A few minor mistakes, but haven't seen any WTF moments. Hope that continues.

Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:58 pm
by BR0D1E86
46Blitz wrote:
Hematite wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:
docc wrote:^^ Agreed..
Also look at the coach differences between what Wilson had and HAS and what Trubisky has had..and the experience difference coming from college,,

Trubs has the tools to be the GOODS..
Trubs has more tools them Wilson. Wilson had those tools honed much more in college and a NFL gamelan to help him. Trubs hasn't had either.
Add to the fact the weapons Wilson has had. It's far to early one way or the other in determining Trub's future greatness/bust.
Good point on WRs, however at the time Wilson didn't exactly have world beaters. Think they had Tate? I don't remember who else. Certainly better than ours regardless.

Think this all is fun to watch. Bears never really had a QB that I truly felt that would turn into anything. I do now. Obviously time will tell but my gut says so. I am yet to see anything that was "bad" from him thus far. A few minor mistakes, but haven't seen any WTF moments. Hope that continues.
Their leaders in targets were Sidney Rice, Golden Tate, Zach Miller (sadface), and Doug Baldwin.

Those were at least three competent NFL wide receivers. I legitimately think we have one that would make another NFL roster and receive and playing time at all, and we've had him for one game.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:58 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
Why the sadface for Zach Miller? He enjoyed a decent 8 year career, won a Super Bowl ring and got most of the £34m from the contract he signed with Seattle before injuring his ankle. Up until his final season he didn't miss many games either.

You're not confusing him with our Zach Miller are you? ;)

Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:23 pm
by BR0D1E86
HisRoyalSweetness wrote:Why the sadface for Zach Miller? He enjoyed a decent 8 year career, won a Super Bowl ring and got most of the £34m from the contract he signed with Seattle before injuring his ankle. Up until his final season he didn't miss many games either.

You're not confusing him with our Zach Miller are you? ;)
There were two Zach Millers? In that case disregard he sad face. F that guy. :)

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:29 pm
by Rusty Trombagent
and they're both tight ends! it's one of life's greatest mysteries.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:43 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
The other Zach Miller also wore 86 while playing for Seattle, both are similar size (6'5, 255lb vs 6'5 245lb) and they were born in consecutive years just to confuse people further!

Even their twitter accounts are similar: @ZachMiller86 and @ZMiller86. Loads of people on twitter mix them up too so don't feel too bad BR0D1E86.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:45 pm
by PapaDongo
This is actually pretty encouraging OP. Glad I read this one. Mods need to move the Zach Miller nonsense though.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:06 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
46Blitz wrote:For awhile I have been comparing Trubisky to Wilson. I just see a lot of similarities in the two and how Trubisky should be developed with the same blueprint. Though I view Trubisky developing into a slightly better pocket passer, they both have a skill set and style that is very close. When Wilson started his career as a rookie week one, not much was asked of him. They had a good defense and relied on the run game. Much like the Bears now. Over time as Wilson gained experience they asked more of him each year. In fact, each year his number steadily increased. I encourage you to look at his numbers.

Anyhow, through both of their first 5 games as rookies I just looked at their stats. They are very close. The only major differences (or not so major) are completions who Wilson has 20 more, but Wilson also has 4 more interceptions. Wilson also has 2 more TDs, however we all know Trubisky could easily had 2 more if you have been watching. Either way, both comparisons are very close. Here is the breakdown...

Wilson - Trubisky

ATT ------125/115
COMP ----79/59
YARDS---815/809
TD-----------5/3
INT----------6/2
RUSH-------25/15
RYARD---92/110
*Sacks-----10/16
*FumL-------1/2

*Updated

Although each player and situation is different, I find this to be more telling than comparing other QBs to Mitch. I am sure more can be dug up on these two. Like pressures, sacks, etc. But this is just general stuff and supports my thoughts of the two.

So every time I see someone flipping their lid after a loss and saying how Trubisky "isn't that good" I have to stay confident in him as a fan and realize he just played his 5th stinking game. Also, with each sack taken or missed WR.... I just know it could be soooo much worse and he can get so much better in time.
Appreciate your effort in putting together Wilson's stats 46Blitz.

One factor that often seems to be overlooked when comparing Trubisky with other QBs is their team's record the previous year. Also the number of points they scored is worth considering.

Obviously in the NFL teams can change significantly from one year to the next, however their performance the season before they draft a QB does provide an indicator of how good or bad the team he's joining is.

The season before the Seahawks drafted Wilson they had finished 7-9 (21st best record in the league) and they averaged 20.1 points per game. That's significantly better than the Bears record last year of 3-13 (30th in the league) and an average of 17.4 points per game.

Wilson finished his rookie season with a 100.0 passer rating. After 5 starts Trubisky's rating is currently 75.6 and trending up.

Similarly if you look at the Eagles, they finished 7-9 (20th in the league) and they averaged 23.6 points per game in 2015 before they traded up from 13 to select Wentz 2nd overall. Wentz finished his first season with a 79.3 rating and 7 wins in 16 starts.

The Rams also finished 7-9 (18th in the league) that year although they only averaged 17.5 points per game. They traded up from 15 to first overall to select Goff who finished with a rating of 63.6 and zero wins in 7 starts.

Last year the Texans had a 9-7 record (8th in the league) and won their division although, like the Bears, they only averaged 17.4 points per game with their success owing much to their top ranked defense. They traded up from 25 to 12 to get Watson. He compiled a 103.0 rating before his injury and a 3-3 record as a starter. (He also threw 23 times as a Week 1 replacement in a game the Texans lost.)

So, both Wilson and Wentz joined higher scoring teams with a markedly better record than Trubisky. Goff and Watson also both joined teams with much better records than Trubisky did although they were not scoring any more points than the Bears. Nevertheless, it's reasonable to assert that all four began their careers in notably better situations than Trubisky has.

Perhaps better comparisons for Trubisky are Winston and Mariotta who both joined teams that had gone 2-14 in 2014, with the Buccaneers averaging 17.3 points per game and the Titans just 15.9 points per game. They finished their rookie seasons with ratings of 84.2 and 91.5 respectively. Their win/loss records as starters were 6-10 and 3-9. So far Trubisky's record is 2-3.

It's still early days, Trubisky hasn't even started half the games he will this year as long as he remains healthy, but so far his win/loss record as a starter compares favourably with all except Russell Wilson (11-5) and his passer rating is currently not all that far off Wentz and significantly better than where Goff finished. Both of those players are having outstanding second seasons leading their teams to the best two records in the league with passer ratings of 104.1 and 101.5 respectively. Winston and Mariotta's ratings are currently 87.3 and 83.1. If he can lead his team to a few more wins with the likes of the Browns and 49ers still to come and his passer rating continues to edge up then come season's end Trubisky will not look out of place amongst any of these highly touted young QBs as a rookie with much promise to come.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:37 pm
by Bears Whiskey Nut
No offense. But I find it completely useless to compare one QB to another through 'X' amount of games. There are 1000's of variables that go into the first five games. Not to mention that Wilson and Trubisky are COMPLETELY different people. They don't learn at the same rate, they are not the same height, weight, experience in college, opponents on college, the list goes on and on. There is absolutely NOTHING you can predict looking at the stats of a QB the first 9 games of his career, and then comparing them against another.

Sorry to pop the balloon.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:36 pm
by Richie
I think there's more problems with Trub than a lot of people want to acknowledge.

I don't think they're fatal issues, but he does look overwhelmed out there sometimes. This merry go-round with the blame game, where we stop everywhere BESIDES the QB himself. It's getting a tad silly.

Perhaps I'm just trying too hard not to get my hopes so far up for the kid. The ease with which I was sold on Rex, Kyle and Jay... it's kind of embarrassing looking back. lol. Hell, I remember being a bit excited to see what Hanie could do in 2011 following Cutler's injury.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:42 pm
by Richie
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:No offense. But I find it completely useless to compare one QB to another through 'X' amount of games. There are 1000's of variables that go into the first five games. Not to mention that Wilson and Trubisky are COMPLETELY different people. They don't learn at the same rate, they are not the same height, weight, experience in college, opponents on college, the list goes on and on. There is absolutely NOTHING you can predict looking at the stats of a QB the first 9 games of his career, and then comparing them against another.

Sorry to pop the balloon.
Agreed.

No matter what a QB's numbers are during/after his first year, you can always find a comparison that serves as anecdotal evidence towards whatever your notions are about said QB.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:11 pm
by Otis Day
As a Bears fan I have been conditioned to not get excited about a QB or a safety. I tend to just let shit play out over time and go from there. I get excited about LBs and RBs and that is about it with this team.

Hell, I don't even get excited for the games on Sunday anymore. It is just an expectation that I watch some or all of the game. I resorted to just the radio for 3 games this year and didn't feel bad about it.

It is going to take a lot for me to get excited about Bears football again. I am almost dreading going to the Bears vs 9er game on 12/3.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:59 pm
by PapaDongo
Richie wrote:I think there's more problems with Trub than a lot of people want to acknowledge.

I don't think they're fatal issues, but he does look overwhelmed out there sometimes. This merry go-round with the blame game, where we stop everywhere BESIDES the QB himself. It's getting a tad silly.

Perhaps I'm just trying too hard not to get my hopes so far up for the kid. The ease with which I was sold on Rex, Kyle and Jay... it's kind of embarrassing looking back. lol. Hell, I remember being a bit excited to see what Hanie could do in 2011 following Cutler's injury.

Careful getting too critical or pessimistic about Tru, you'll get your CHIT pushed in by some of these guys lol.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:25 pm
by Richie
PapaDongo wrote:
Richie wrote:I think there's more problems with Trub than a lot of people want to acknowledge.

I don't think they're fatal issues, but he does look overwhelmed out there sometimes. This merry go-round with the blame game, where we stop everywhere BESIDES the QB himself. It's getting a tad silly.

Perhaps I'm just trying too hard not to get my hopes so far up for the kid. The ease with which I was sold on Rex, Kyle and Jay... it's kind of embarrassing looking back. lol. Hell, I remember being a bit excited to see what Hanie could do in 2011 following Cutler's injury.

Careful getting too critical or pessimistic about Tru, you'll get your CHIT pushed in by some of these guys lol.
Papa, I think your posts get met with more push-back, because of the confrontational manner with which you approach these topics. I think if you toned that down, you'd get along with everyone here a lot better.

Not that I'm a long-time poster here, but some things are just obvious. I don't mean any disrespect either.

Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:32 pm
by BR0D1E86
PapaDongo wrote:
Richie wrote:I think there's more problems with Trub than a lot of people want to acknowledge.

I don't think they're fatal issues, but he does look overwhelmed out there sometimes. This merry go-round with the blame game, where we stop everywhere BESIDES the QB himself. It's getting a tad silly.

Perhaps I'm just trying too hard not to get my hopes so far up for the kid. The ease with which I was sold on Rex, Kyle and Jay... it's kind of embarrassing looking back. lol. Hell, I remember being a bit excited to see what Hanie could do in 2011 following Cutler's injury.

Careful getting too critical or pessimistic about Tru, you'll get your CHIT pushed in by some of these guys lol.
Being critical of Trubisky is not why you're getting "your CHIT pushed in." It's due to all time classy statements like "get your CHIT pushed in."

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:28 pm
by southdakbearfan
BR0D1E86 wrote:
PapaDongo wrote:
Richie wrote:I think there's more problems with Trub than a lot of people want to acknowledge.

I don't think they're fatal issues, but he does look overwhelmed out there sometimes. This merry go-round with the blame game, where we stop everywhere BESIDES the QB himself. It's getting a tad silly.

Perhaps I'm just trying too hard not to get my hopes so far up for the kid. The ease with which I was sold on Rex, Kyle and Jay... it's kind of embarrassing looking back. lol. Hell, I remember being a bit excited to see what Hanie could do in 2011 following Cutler's injury.

Careful getting too critical or pessimistic about Tru, you'll get your CHIT pushed in by some of these guys lol.
Being critical of Trubisky is not why you're getting "your CHIT pushed in." It's due to all time classy statements like "get your CHIT pushed in."
Winner!

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:00 pm
by Adipost
PapaDongo wrote:This is actually pretty encouraging OP. Glad I read this one. Mods need to move the Zach Miller nonsense though.
Don’t let these dudes get you down, man. They automatically hated me as well when I first came here.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:03 pm
by G08
Adipost wrote:
PapaDongo wrote:This is actually pretty encouraging OP. Glad I read this one. Mods need to move the Zach Miller nonsense though.
Don’t let these dudes get you down, man. They automatically hated me as well when I first came here.
We still do, Adi ;)

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:31 pm
by UOK
Adipost wrote:
PapaDongo wrote:This is actually pretty encouraging OP. Glad I read this one. Mods need to move the Zach Miller nonsense though.
Don’t let these dudes get you down, man. They automatically hated me as well when I first came here.
That's kind of been our default ever since a truckload of internet diarrhea got dumped into our laps when the Bears official message board went down and CCS sent over a dozen or so mind-numblingly stupid members to spread the gospel of near-illiteracy.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:40 pm
by G08
It's like anything in life, you get respect when you earn it.

Adi brings value to the board, has great breakdowns, and clearly understands the game; that's a W in my book. :toast:

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:06 am
by Adipost
G08 wrote:
Adipost wrote:
PapaDongo wrote:This is actually pretty encouraging OP. Glad I read this one. Mods need to move the Zach Miller nonsense though.
Don’t let these dudes get you down, man. They automatically hated me as well when I first came here.
We still do, Adi ;)
Image

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:01 am
by wab
G08 wrote:It's like anything in life, you get respect when you earn it.

Adi brings value to the board, has great breakdowns, and clearly understands the game; that's a W in my book. :toast:
He also doesn't use the word cuck in every post. Double win.

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:10 am
by malk
wab wrote:
G08 wrote:It's like anything in life, you get respect when you earn it.

Adi brings value to the board, has great breakdowns, and clearly understands the game; that's a W in my book. :toast:
He also doesn't use the word cuck in every post. Double win.
Can someone write a script that automates a ban for that?

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:38 pm
by HisRoyalSweetness
G08 wrote:It's like anything in life, you get respect when you earn it.
Personally speaking, rather than require people to earn my respect I find it’s better to give people my respect unless and until they do something to lose it.

(So you have my respect G08... for now. :-P)

Re: Trubisky Vs. Wilson

Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:19 am
by G08
HisRoyalSweetness wrote:
G08 wrote:It's like anything in life, you get respect when you earn it.
Personally speaking, rather than require people to earn my respect I find it’s better to give people my respect unless and until they do something to lose it.

(So you have my respect G08... for now. :-P)
Where's the fun in that, HRS?? :wink: :lol: