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Think of how Howard will run when they spread the defense out and make teams fear the pass game.

Mikefive wrote:Think of how Howard will run when they spread the defense out and make teams fear the pass game.

I was thinking this exact same thing. Instead of facing 8+ in the box every play we go spread or *gasp* bunch formation then run Howard weak side. I'm picturing big things for him next year as long as we get some weapons at WR

But...but...think of what the defense will dictate...How will Nagy be able to scheme against what the defense dictates???

Mikefive wrote:Think of how Howard will run when they spread the defense out and make teams fear the pass game.

Bingo!

Atkins&Rebel wrote:But...but...think of what the defense will dictate...How will Nagy be able to scheme against what the defense dictates???

So sad hearing those excuses. I must say that the young offensive players development that did occur last year was in spite of coaching.

I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I'm hoping for as well. I think parts of the Chip Kelly offense make a lot of sense. But I hope and expect Nagy to hold true to the WCO.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I expect as well.

Mikefive wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I expect as well.

We won't see the Chip Kelly offense here. It keeps the defense on the field too long because of those failed hurry up drives for the sake of having a hurried up drive.

You'll see those plays I'm sure, but I'm guessing the tempo will be more normal.

The Marshall Plan wrote:

Mikefive wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I'm not sure that we will see the Chip Kelly offense. I would expect to see the KC offense, with a lot of Kelly concepts thrown in. I do expect see more of a spread offense, something that Long and Grasu should be very familiar with. I expect there to be a lot of short under clear-out routes. I see more TE involvement (If Shaheen is who we all hope he is, this could very, very good for him). It's going to be really exciting to see what they put together.

That's what I expect as well.

We won't see the Chip Kelly offense here. It keeps the defense on the field too long because of those failed hurry up drives for the sake of having a hurried up drive.

You'll see those plays I'm sure, but I'm guessing the tempo will be more normal.

At the same time, being able to change the pace of the game is just another tool that can be used to attack a defense. It's something we rarely saw with the Fox, sometimes even when circumstances dictated a fast pace.

That's why I hope Nagy has some kind of plan where he thinks he can incorporate parts of the Kelly offense into his own while eliminating the major flaws of it.

Can you imagine the Bears routinely scoring over 20 points a game? Trubisky better be as happy as a pig in slop right now!

Hematite wrote:
Can you imagine the Bears routinely scoring over 20 points a game? Trubisky better be as happy as a pig in slop right now!

Had the bears scored 24 points per game this year, or roughly the league average, we would have been 12-4.

Of course there are a lot of variables that affect that, but still.....

Next person that says 'Kelly Offense' gets a rolled-up newspaper across the nose.

Hiphopopotamos wrote:Next person that says 'Kelly Offense' gets a rolled-up newspaper across the nose.

Fine. All I'm saying is that we should expect to see SOME of the Oregon concepts, under Chip Kelly, integrated into this offense. It is Nagy's offense. It will most likely be the KC offense. But with the hiring of Mark Helfrich, and given the potent Oregon offense in 2009-2012, you have to assume that Helfrich will bring a little of that to the table as they install it.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:

Hiphopopotamos wrote:Next person that says 'Kelly Offense' gets a rolled-up newspaper across the nose.

Fine. All I'm saying is that we should expect to see SOME of the Oregon concepts, under Chip Kelly, integrated into this offense. It is Nagy's offense. It will most likely be the KC offense. But with the hiring of Mark Helfrich, and given the potent Oregon offense in 2009-2012, you have to assume that Helfrich will bring a little of that to the table as they install it.

And I hope they do install concepts of the "Kelly Offense". Of course it will be Nagy's offense and as I made clear in the opening post, I expect the meat of his offense to be WCO based, but as BWN posted above, the hiring of Helfrich has to mean Nagy is interested in something there.

That's why I originally asked if Nagy has some conceptual idea that can integrate the "Kelly Offense" into his system without sacrificing TOP.

Mr.Irrelevant wrote:

Hematite wrote:
Can you imagine the Bears routinely scoring over 20 points a game? Trubisky better be as happy as a pig in slop right now!

Had the bears scored 24 points per game this year, or roughly the league average, we would have been 12-4.

Of course there are a lot of variables that affect that, but still.....

Wow is that depressing...

...or encouraging depending on how you look at it.

interesting article

https://windycitychronicle.com/2018/01/ ... e-dynamic/

Hematite wrote:interesting article

https://windycitychronicle.com/2018/01/ ... e-dynamic/

WOW! Great article. They bring up Mouse Davis. Which goes back to my childhood. I grew up in Portland, Oregon. My Dad used to take me to Portland State University football games when Mouse Davis was the coach and Neil Lomax was under center. Those games were a BLAST to watch. There were receivers running EVERYWHERE. PSU used to absolutely destroy teams. It was a lot of fun.

I want it to be Nagy's offense. Period. His.

It's said, "There's nothing new under the sun," implying true invention is impossible, but "We all stand on the shoulders of giants," implies we can transform what already exists into something better.

I want Nagy to be transforming. Not necessarily with a new play, but with a new synthesis. And fluid, because new ideas will appear elsewhere, old ideas will be refuted, players will change, players' abilities will change.

I want the Bears to become the envy of football, not just because they are winning, but also because they are doing it in innovative style. They did it 98 years ago, and 33 years ago on defense. I want more.

Middleguard wrote:I want it to be Nagy's offense. Period. His.

It's said, "There's nothing new under the sun," implying true invention is impossible, but "We all stand on the shoulders of giants," implies we can transform what already exists into something better.

I want Nagy to be transforming. Not necessarily with a new play, but with a new synthesis. And fluid, because new ideas will appear elsewhere, old ideas will be refuted, players will change, players' abilities will change.

I want the Bears to become the envy of football, not just because they are winning, but also because they are doing it in innovative style. They did it 98 years ago, and 33 years ago on defense. I want more.

It will be his offense. All this hand wringing on kelly's/helfrich/reid's/whomever's offense is tiresome.

Nagy knows what he wants and he is a listen and learn guy too. He is gonna take from his experience and everyone's experience around him to form his offense. If something works it works and is kept, if something doesn't it will be discarded.

Anyone that thinks this won’t be Nagy’s offense is crazy. It might take bits and pieces from that Oregon system, but it will be the seasoning, not the steak.


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Anyone who cares too much who's offense this is needs a hobby.

'As long as it works' is the motto!

Here is a great article that was embedded in one that someone posted. This is the Four Verticals concept, and a fascinating read. I would expect to see quite a bit of this next year.

Four Verticals Concept

Where did all the straw men come from? Seems to be happening a lot recently.

I haven't seen anyone suggest it won't be Nagy's offence. I have seen some nice reads and discussion on what concepts and previous coaches might inform the makeup of his offence.

UH,,

If Trubisky takes that leap next year like all good QB's usually do in their 2nd year, with the new offense coming in (and new/healthy weapons on the outside), I can see him putting up a monster year (3500+ yds, 20+ TD's). Goff had 3800 and 28 td's this year for comparison.

A lot of faith obviously goes into coaching him up, but Nagy's success with Smith sure provides confidence in that happening. I'm starting to feel the effects of the kool aid!

It should be some creative minds coming together and creating an offense that will best suit Mitch and our weapons. It's a nice departure from the Mike Martzs and Dowell Loggains of the world (i.e. this is my system and this is the only way I will function).

Of every addition Nagy made, Helfrich is by far the most polarizing to me. Especially since he's going to help design the offense Nagy will be implementing for Trubisky and company.
On one hand, the spread concepts he undertook at Oregon with Marcus Mariota and a variety of other quarterbacks for a prolific Ducks offense is intriguing in a mesh of Nagy's version of the West Coast offense. With these two brainstorming Chicago's attack, expect high tempo fireworks that feature a bevy of pro and college concepts to keep defenses on their heels. The ideal would be another NFL offensive innovation not limited to the buzzword run-pass options of 2017. A West Coast spread option hybrid offense the league isn't prepared to handle..
On the other hand, Helfrich has never coached at the NFL level, a fact that he alluded to as much that could be a concern for his transition to the professional game last week. Coaching amateurs in a simplistic offense is drastically different from dealing with paid grown men of which most are physical freakishly sized and fast specimens. His adjustment in this niche will be key to how the Bears' offense as a whole adapts over time.
It's a good thing Helfrich is intelligent enough to be prepared for this once he gets comfortable, because the core tenets of football are the same at any level, regardless of the level of competition. He'll undoubtedly remind himself of this constantly at first.
Luckily enough, Nagy will be handling the play-calling as the head orchestral maestro, so Helfrich's primary role will be assisting in the development of Trubisky and in the designs of an extensive, but advantageous playbook. The 44-year-old will receive a lot of credit should he help the Bears' offense flourish. Or, if the plan fails, crash and burn out of the league. As boom or bust in an out-of-the-box hire as it gets.

https://www.windycitygridiron.com/2018/ ... s-nfl-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Lets hope for the good of this franchise, Helfrich is getting tons of credit as Trubisky flourishes!!

Some more interesting tidbits...

"He can do it all in his head. He doesn't have to draw the pictures on the board," Koetter said. "Not many people can do that."
"He sees the game through the quarterback's eyes. We all have ideas, but if your quarterback can't execute those ideas, they are lines on a paper. Mark is as smart a football guy as I know."

Koetter took Helfrich with him from Oregon to Boise State and then Arizona State. Record-setting quarterbacks followed.

"Since he got with Chip, Mark won't give me all their spread secrets," Koetter said. "They definitely know what they are looking for in how defenses adjust to their spread."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2193 ... hare=other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I really think Nagy hit a home run with the hiring of Helfrich as OC. Nagy had his hand in the spread concepts implemented in Kansas City and went out and hired somebody with a far greater understanding of this type of offense. The ability to blend the WCO and the Spread offense with 2 coaches deeply rooted in their respective offenses is exciting to say the least.

I can't wait!

On the other hand, Helfrich has never coached at the NFL level, a fact that he alluded to as much that could be a concern for his transition to the professional game last week. Coaching amateurs in a simplistic offense is drastically different from dealing with paid grown men of which most are physical freakishly sized and fast specimens. His adjustment in this niche will be key to how the Bears' offense as a whole adapts over time.

I find this a bit strange. Helfrich's presser mentioned quite a bit about the transition from college to pros but the difference was about how little practise time they get in the NFL compared to college. Unless I read it completely wrong.

malk wrote:

On the other hand, Helfrich has never coached at the NFL level, a fact that he alluded to as much that could be a concern for his transition to the professional game last week. Coaching amateurs in a simplistic offense is drastically different from dealing with paid grown men of which most are physical freakishly sized and fast specimens. His adjustment in this niche will be key to how the Bears' offense as a whole adapts over time.

I find this a bit strange. Helfrich's presser mentioned quite a bit about the transition from college to pros but the difference was about how little practise time they get in the NFL compared to college. Unless I read it completely wrong.

IMO, the transition difference is in what the QB and the WR read pre snap, the verbiage associated with calling plays, and giving WR's option routes. After that it's just football. Finding soft spots in zones, beating press, setting up players in man coverage for when you're the first read on a play...catching the ball.