His contract situation shows that he's under contract for the next 2 years at $6M per and it costs us $667K to cut him. On 3/16/18, $4M of his salary is guaranteed. (Free agency starts on 3/14.) He's young though at 26. He played 59% of the snaps, was targeted 29x with 15 receptions for 180 yards and 1 TD.
To me, this is a no brainer cut. Or at least keep him heading into FA, sign a replacement and turn him loose on 3/15. He's not earning $6M and we need to give Shaheen more PT. We still need a 3rd TE. But I'd pick up another on the market for half the price or less or draft one. If he'd renegotiate his contract down to $2M (and I'm not sure why he would do that), I'd consider bringing him back.
Am I missing something?
Dion Sims - Keep or Cut?
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I say keep. He got flak for not being great, but he is a solid blocker, and isn't a liability in the receiving game. TE who can block get overlooked. Not a great player but on a weak roster you don't get rid of him.
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I would cut him only if we are able to land Tre Burton in FA.
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I think we keep him.
However, I would not mind if we cut him. I like Brown enough (if we can bring him back) and we can probably find a solid blocker who is cheaper.
IMO, someone is going to overpay for Burton to be their starter. Plus, he may have that inflated "free agent coming off a Super Bowl" price tag.
However, I would not mind if we cut him. I like Brown enough (if we can bring him back) and we can probably find a solid blocker who is cheaper.
IMO, someone is going to overpay for Burton to be their starter. Plus, he may have that inflated "free agent coming off a Super Bowl" price tag.
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Honestly, there are a bunch of intriguing TE prospects in this years draft. If Pace stays true to form and addresses every need in FA then a few of these guys could be 4th round targets. Also if he does overspend to grad a couple of the top guys then Sims could be one of the many released to make room.
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This was an atrocious call from the get-go.
http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/vi ... ms#p167574" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
At least he didn't let it stop him from drafting one. But it was a big waste of money then and becomes a worse value the more you intend to increase Shaheen's workload.
You want a serviceable blocking TE, fine. They grow on trees and shouldn't cost half what you paid.
Last edited by Moriarty on Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Keep him. The Bears have guys at TE that can stretch the field. Sims will be good in all the 2 TE sets the Bears will be using.
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Keep him but we still need an upgrade down the line. He is not one of the holes on the roster though. The key here is Shaheen needs to step up to being at least a strong starter quality in 2018. Last episode he was still potential and improving
Edit: I still say keep him, but I am not sure Sims still fits the system.
Edit: I still say keep him, but I am not sure Sims still fits the system.
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A lot of people shit on Sims for his contract, but depth past Shaheen is quite poor. I think Sims is okay, and while his contract isn't great for his scoring numbers, you could do infinitely worse. If Shaheen blossoms, Sims is still useful for his blocking and as a secondary target.
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I just don't see the need to create an extra hole when there are others needed to be filled.
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Yup, as long as he's on the field with shaheen, and not instead of, i definitely want him around. historically 1st year TE's never do much because they dont get to focus on just one thing, so i dont think it's really that egregious that shaheen didnt get used as much as we'd all like... and if we bring in a project TE to replace Sim's we're back at square one.
I expect the production of Sims to closer match his contract next year, simply because Trubisky will be a better QB in year 2. As others have said as well, the depth at TE is shaky at best and there is no reason to create another hole in the roster when so many exist already.
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51.7% catch rate and 3 drops on only 29 targets. I understand the sentiment behind not creating another hole but Sims is already a hole, just an expensive one.
Cut please!
Cut please!
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But he's not supposed to be the receiver. That was Miller. Then Miller went down and Sims had to fill a hole he was never supposed to fill because Shaheen wasn't ready (I guess).malk wrote:51.7% catch rate and 3 drops on only 29 targets. I understand the sentiment behind not creating another hole but Sims is already a hole, just an expensive one.
Cut please!
With the development of Shaheen, and to a lesser extent Brown, Sims can go back to what he does well.
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I would like to see him in an offense that actually values the TE position as a weapon, before I decide to cut him. He is supposed to be an athletic pass catcher, he just hasn't been in the right scheme. He's only 26.
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Certainly there is another free agent TE that could better his production even if you take into account our less than stellar QB play. I would really like to see Mitch to get comfortable and utilize his Tight Ends. The fact that he didn't proves to me that he isn't exactly comfortable with him.
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That characterization shocks me. Sims was sold as a TE who could both block and catch, but didn't get much opportunity in the pass game. As it turns out, he can block, but not do very much in the pass game even with more opportunity.sturf wrote:It's hard to find a Y TE with any athleticism and receiving ability, which is how Sims got that contract to begin with. They got Gilbride the new TE coach so let him work with Sims and Shaheen.
When you talk about a TE with athleticism and receiving ability, you're talking about Daniel Brown. Of course, he's not much of a blocker. And he was also the 4th TE most of the year, so his opportunities were limited. If you're looking for a guy who should really benefit from a more aggressive scheme, it's Brown the former WR. I'm not saying he'll be the 2nd coming of anything. But he's an inexpensive guy I'd like to see with the new offense.
I just don't see why it makes sense to pay $6M for a blocking TE. You should be able to find those for sub starter money.
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In fairness to Sims, he was supposed to play more of an H-Back role. But things didn't really go as planned.Mikefive wrote:That characterization shocks me. Sims was sold as a TE who could both block and catch, but didn't get much opportunity in the pass game. As it turns out, he can block, but not do very much in the pass game even with more opportunity.sturf wrote:It's hard to find a Y TE with any athleticism and receiving ability, which is how Sims got that contract to begin with. They got Gilbride the new TE coach so let him work with Sims and Shaheen.
When you talk about a TE with athleticism and receiving ability, you're talking about Daniel Brown. Of course, he's not much of a blocker. And he was also the 4th TE most of the year, so his opportunities were limited. If you're looking for a guy who should really benefit from a more aggressive scheme, it's Brown the former WR. I'm not saying he'll be the 2nd coming of anything. But he's an inexpensive guy I'd like to see with the new offense.
I just don't see why it makes sense to pay $6M for a blocking TE. You should be able to find those for sub starter money.
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Not that I want the Bears to draft him, but I love me some Dallas Goedert from South Dakota St U. 6'4" 260 had over 1100 yds last 2 yrs. Yes he is from an FCS school, but the dude has skills.
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I remember his strength being in pass blocking, but the more I watched him the more I felt he should be used in the passing game. If you look at his metrics, he's not exactly a slouch:wab wrote:In fairness to Sims, he was supposed to play more of an H-Back role. But things didn't really go as planned.Mikefive wrote:That characterization shocks me. Sims was sold as a TE who could both block and catch, but didn't get much opportunity in the pass game. As it turns out, he can block, but not do very much in the pass game even with more opportunity.sturf wrote:It's hard to find a Y TE with any athleticism and receiving ability, which is how Sims got that contract to begin with. They got Gilbride the new TE coach so let him work with Sims and Shaheen.
When you talk about a TE with athleticism and receiving ability, you're talking about Daniel Brown. Of course, he's not much of a blocker. And he was also the 4th TE most of the year, so his opportunities were limited. If you're looking for a guy who should really benefit from a more aggressive scheme, it's Brown the former WR. I'm not saying he'll be the 2nd coming of anything. But he's an inexpensive guy I'd like to see with the new offense.
I just don't see why it makes sense to pay $6M for a blocking TE. You should be able to find those for sub starter money.
6047
262
1.62/2.75/4.75
7.16 cone
Compare that to Travis Kelce (No, I'm not saying he's Travis Kelce):
6047
255 lbs
1.61/2.72/4.61
7.09 cone
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He's one of the guys I like also. It'll be interesting to see some actual 40 times at the combine. A lot of these TE's have ideal size. Hope some of them break out and show some speed.Otis Day wrote:Not that I want the Bears to draft him, but I love me some Dallas Goedert from South Dakota St U. 6'4" 260 had over 1100 yds last 2 yrs. Yes he is from an FCS school, but the dude has skills.
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Hands. Of. Stone.G08 wrote:I remember his strength being in pass blocking, but the more I watched him the more I felt he should be used in the passing game. If you look at his metrics, he's not exactly a slouch:wab wrote:In fairness to Sims, he was supposed to play more of an H-Back role. But things didn't really go as planned.Mikefive wrote:That characterization shocks me. Sims was sold as a TE who could both block and catch, but didn't get much opportunity in the pass game. As it turns out, he can block, but not do very much in the pass game even with more opportunity.sturf wrote:It's hard to find a Y TE with any athleticism and receiving ability, which is how Sims got that contract to begin with. They got Gilbride the new TE coach so let him work with Sims and Shaheen.
When you talk about a TE with athleticism and receiving ability, you're talking about Daniel Brown. Of course, he's not much of a blocker. And he was also the 4th TE most of the year, so his opportunities were limited. If you're looking for a guy who should really benefit from a more aggressive scheme, it's Brown the former WR. I'm not saying he'll be the 2nd coming of anything. But he's an inexpensive guy I'd like to see with the new offense.
I just don't see why it makes sense to pay $6M for a blocking TE. You should be able to find those for sub starter money.
6047
262
1.62/2.75/4.75
7.16 cone
Compare that to Travis Kelce (No, I'm not saying he's Travis Kelce):
6047
255 lbs
1.61/2.72/4.61
7.09 cone
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Look. Sims is not supposed to be our pass catching TE. That's Shaheen. With Sims' size and blocking ability, in 12 personnel, its like having another OL out on the field. I think we keep him and see what he can do.malk wrote:Hands. Of. Stone.G08 wrote:I remember his strength being in pass blocking, but the more I watched him the more I felt he should be used in the passing game. If you look at his metrics, he's not exactly a slouch:wab wrote:In fairness to Sims, he was supposed to play more of an H-Back role. But things didn't really go as planned.Mikefive wrote:That characterization shocks me. Sims was sold as a TE who could both block and catch, but didn't get much opportunity in the pass game. As it turns out, he can block, but not do very much in the pass game even with more opportunity.sturf wrote:It's hard to find a Y TE with any athleticism and receiving ability, which is how Sims got that contract to begin with. They got Gilbride the new TE coach so let him work with Sims and Shaheen.
When you talk about a TE with athleticism and receiving ability, you're talking about Daniel Brown. Of course, he's not much of a blocker. And he was also the 4th TE most of the year, so his opportunities were limited. If you're looking for a guy who should really benefit from a more aggressive scheme, it's Brown the former WR. I'm not saying he'll be the 2nd coming of anything. But he's an inexpensive guy I'd like to see with the new offense.
I just don't see why it makes sense to pay $6M for a blocking TE. You should be able to find those for sub starter money.
6047
262
1.62/2.75/4.75
7.16 cone
Compare that to Travis Kelce (No, I'm not saying he's Travis Kelce):
6047
255 lbs
1.61/2.72/4.61
7.09 cone
I have a problem with keeping anyone who is just about good enough to keep coverage honest for our main guy to find open space.
Id rather have more than 1 legitimate threat in all positions. Shaheen is a better catcher, with bigger size for blocking capabilities. Sign another one. Settling for mediocrity in any position or phase can not be an option. Pace has to, and I believe he eventually will, strengthen this teams depth to provide that at all positions.
Id rather have more than 1 legitimate threat in all positions. Shaheen is a better catcher, with bigger size for blocking capabilities. Sign another one. Settling for mediocrity in any position or phase can not be an option. Pace has to, and I believe he eventually will, strengthen this teams depth to provide that at all positions.
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I could not agree more. Cut him and sign a blocking TE. Shaheen is the receiving TE. The Biscuit to Shaheen chemistry needs to get started like yesterday.Mikefive wrote:His contract situation shows that he's under contract for the next 2 years at $6M per and it costs us $667K to cut him. On 3/16/18, $4M of his salary is guaranteed. (Free agency starts on 3/14.) He's young though at 26. He played 59% of the snaps, was targeted 29x with 15 receptions for 180 yards and 1 TD.
To me, this is a no brainer cut. Or at least keep him heading into FA, sign a replacement and turn him loose on 3/15. He's not earning $6M and we need to give Shaheen more PT. We still need a 3rd TE. But I'd pick up another on the market for half the price or less or draft one. If he'd renegotiate his contract down to $2M (and I'm not sure why he would do that), I'd consider bringing him back.
Am I missing something?
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I understand he was meant to be a blocking TE with some upside in the passing game, and that's what his contract reflected. I also think his contract, with a small amount of dead money even after the first year, demonstrated a certain lack of confidence from Pace in his ability to fulfil that role, the games have borne that out.Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:Look. Sims is not supposed to be our pass catching TE. That's Shaheen. With Sims' size and blocking ability, in 12 personnel, its like having another OL out on the field. I think we keep him and see what he can do.malk wrote:Hands. Of. Stone.G08 wrote:I remember his strength being in pass blocking, but the more I watched him the more I felt he should be used in the passing game. If you look at his metrics, he's not exactly a slouch:wab wrote:In fairness to Sims, he was supposed to play more of an H-Back role. But things didn't really go as planned.Mikefive wrote:That characterization shocks me. Sims was sold as a TE who could both block and catch, but didn't get much opportunity in the pass game. As it turns out, he can block, but not do very much in the pass game even with more opportunity.sturf wrote:It's hard to find a Y TE with any athleticism and receiving ability, which is how Sims got that contract to begin with. They got Gilbride the new TE coach so let him work with Sims and Shaheen.
When you talk about a TE with athleticism and receiving ability, you're talking about Daniel Brown. Of course, he's not much of a blocker. And he was also the 4th TE most of the year, so his opportunities were limited. If you're looking for a guy who should really benefit from a more aggressive scheme, it's Brown the former WR. I'm not saying he'll be the 2nd coming of anything. But he's an inexpensive guy I'd like to see with the new offense.
I just don't see why it makes sense to pay $6M for a blocking TE. You should be able to find those for sub starter money.
6047
262
1.62/2.75/4.75
7.16 cone
Compare that to Travis Kelce (No, I'm not saying he's Travis Kelce):
6047
255 lbs
1.61/2.72/4.61
7.09 cone
$6m per is too much for a blocking TE so he should be cut and replaced with a blocking TE for the right money or cut and replaced for the same money with someone who can hopefully do the job he was intended to.
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You know it's the offseason for Bears fans when there is a 3 page post about a 2nd string blocking TE.
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This is essentially the same argument I have for the get rid of Sitton theory.
The Bears have the 12th most cap room. They likely won't be bringing in 7 new 7 million dollar players. So the cap savings likely will be a moot point.
The free agent class is either, old, injured, or both. In a league where keeping your QB standing is a priority cutting Sims seems to hurt that priority. Especially when your back ups are not proven or can't replace him in that roll.
The Bears have the 12th most cap room. They likely won't be bringing in 7 new 7 million dollar players. So the cap savings likely will be a moot point.
The free agent class is either, old, injured, or both. In a league where keeping your QB standing is a priority cutting Sims seems to hurt that priority. Especially when your back ups are not proven or can't replace him in that roll.
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Indeed.wab wrote:You know it's the offseason for Bears fans when there is a 3 page post about a 2nd string blocking TE.
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