Update: Bears don't match Meredith offer, joins Saints

[cblaz11]

I'm normally a Pace defender, but this move has me a little baffled.

If healthy, we had the opportunity of adding a guy who can be a very good number 2 WR for 5 million a year. If you compare that dollar amount to number 2 WRs, it's a bargain.

Now, we did dish out money to Robinson, Gabriel, And Burton...Pace is probably envisioning those 3 along with Shaheen and Cohen as the guys our passing game is going to revolve around for the next 5 years. In an effort to balance our cap he's probably wanting to plug the holes around them with young/cheap players.

I'm hoping Pace has plans of drafting a couple mid round WRs to compete with the guys on the bottom half of our depth chart while potentially giving us some young guys to add to the core.

[Atkins&Rebel]

If you think long term for the team though...We start getting something going, Meredith puts up 1000+ yards and 9 TD's in 2019 as a WR 2 and his contract is up.

I'm betting dollars to donuts, that Pace wanted Meredith. But with a small tender he would either get a 1 year deal when he's recovering from injury and so we could get a more friendly team deal, or if he gets contract offers, they would be 3-5 years or 1 year prove it deals. So we get to keep him longer.

It was a nice attempt, but now drafting a rookie that can grow with Mitch makes more sense long term, especially after throwing money at 2 FA WR's.

[Mikefive]

If you think long term for the team though...We start getting something going, Meredith puts up 1000+ yards and 9 TD's in 2019 as a WR 2 and his contract is up.

I'm betting dollars to donuts, that Pace wanted Meredith. But with a small tender he would either get a 1 year deal when he's recovering from injury and so we could get a more friendly team deal, or if he gets contract offers, they would be 3-5 years or 1 year prove it deals. So we get to keep him longer.

It was a nice attempt, but now drafting a rookie that can grow with Mitch makes more sense long term, especially after throwing money at 2 FA WR's.

To me, the only way this makes sense is if Kevin White stays healthy, blossoms and re-signs--which throws the salary cap imbalance argument for a loop, or if you draft a guy and he turns out to be Stefan Diggs. Or if Meredith can't do it any more.

[malk]

Ugh, I'm not gonna bang the drum on this but it's yet another confirmation that Pace is bad at free agency. It could be worse, he hasn't committed a war crime, but he's bafflingly inept at it when he seems pretty damn good at everything else.

Still, this is playoff basketball season and as a Rockets fan, this is an exciting time.

Wishing the very best luck to Meredith, hope he kills it, even including against the Bears... as long as the Saints don't win.

[UOK]

What Nagy had to say about Meredith:

QUESTION: What role did you play into the Cam Meredith decision?
ANSWER: Ryan and I made that decision together, as well as coaches, personnel, staff, we got all different opinions of where we were at. Those are the tough decisions in this business, and we had a good talk with him. We told him things happen for a reason, and he's got a great opportunity to go to another great team, and to take this and use it as a positive. There's no hard feelings. Go get better, do your thing, we'll do our thing, and we'll move on.


QUESTION: Could he have been your Z?
ANSWER: Not necessarily. He could've been our X, too.

QUESTION: Was it a matter of fitting in the offense?
ANSWER: I wouldn't say he wasn't a fit. There's so many different things that go into this decision. The biggest question mark is obviously his knee, his injury. That's the number one thing. Then you have to look at the fit, where he's at...I'm not going to go into our details, but I will say this: When we left our meeting with him, both sides understood where we were going and we wish him the best of luck.

[cblaz11]

Ugh, I'm not gonna bang the drum on this but it's yet another confirmation that Pace is bad at free agency. It could be worse, he hasn't committed a war crime, but he's bafflingly inept at it when he seems pretty damn good at everything else.

Still, this is playoff basketball season and as a Rockets fan, this is an exciting time.

Wishing the very best luck to Meredith, hope he kills it, even including against the Bears... as long as the Saints don't win.

Massie, Burton, Allen Robinson, Hicks, Trevaithan, Prince...

He hasn't been great but he also hasn't negatively effected our long term cap flexibility. A lot of his so called misses were short term deals that were easy to get out of.

[Mikefive]

Ugh, I'm not gonna bang the drum on this but it's yet another confirmation that Pace is bad at free agency. It could be worse, he hasn't committed a war crime, but he's bafflingly inept at it when he seems pretty damn good at everything else.

Still, this is playoff basketball season and as a Rockets fan, this is an exciting time.

Wishing the very best luck to Meredith, hope he kills it, even including against the Bears... as long as the Saints don't win.

I HATE that we let Meredith go and have posted at length on that. Still, this isn't a confirmation of anything yet. If Meredith is broken down from here on out, does that confirm that Pace is bad at FA? It's a wait and see.

[malk]

Ugh, I'm not gonna bang the drum on this but it's yet another confirmation that Pace is bad at free agency. It could be worse, he hasn't committed a war crime, but he's bafflingly inept at it when he seems pretty damn good at everything else.

Still, this is playoff basketball season and as a Rockets fan, this is an exciting time.

Wishing the very best luck to Meredith, hope he kills it, even including against the Bears... as long as the Saints don't win.

Massie, Burton, Allen Robinson, Hicks, Trevaithan, Prince...

He hasn't been great but he also hasn't negatively effected our long term cap flexibility. A lot of his so called misses were short term deals that were easy to get out of.

Do you not find it a little damning that two of the 6 players you've listed haven't played a snap for the Bears yet?

Sure there are others you haven't listed but I see a pattern of mistakes from Pace in free agency that significantly reduces our chances of winning. 2017 free agency alone wasted between $30+ in cap space from Glennon, Sims, Wheaton and Cooper. Yes it didn't hurt our flexibility going forward but that misses the opportunity cost. That $30m should have made the roster better and it absolutely didn't. Perhaps Sims or Cooper help this season but I'm not holding my breath.

I HATE that we let Meredith go and have posted at length on that. Still, this isn't a confirmation of anything yet. If Meredith is broken down from here on out, does that confirm that Pace is bad at FA? It's a wait and see.

I really try and stay away from basing my views on hindsight. Meredith's injury isn't what bothers me about this situation, its the tender. My view is that Pace gambled Meredith getting a better offer to save $1m, and that was a bad bet. If he issues a 2nd round tender then we're pretty much guaranteed Meredith in 2018, no one is giving up that pick for him. Once we have him locked in, Pace can negotiate a team friendly deal that offers Meredith more security for a lower overall cost to the team. Instead, with the original round tender, Pace just lets the market set the deal and has lost out.

So this isn't about whether Meredith will end up being good or healthy or whatever, it's about Pace making poor tactical decisions in how he addresses free agency. His appraisal of risk/reward seems very poor to me.

[Mikefive]

Ugh, I'm not gonna bang the drum on this but it's yet another confirmation that Pace is bad at free agency. It could be worse, he hasn't committed a war crime, but he's bafflingly inept at it when he seems pretty damn good at everything else.

Still, this is playoff basketball season and as a Rockets fan, this is an exciting time.

Wishing the very best luck to Meredith, hope he kills it, even including against the Bears... as long as the Saints don't win.

Massie, Burton, Allen Robinson, Hicks, Trevaithan, Prince...

He hasn't been great but he also hasn't negatively effected our long term cap flexibility. A lot of his so called misses were short term deals that were easy to get out of.

Do you not find it a little damning that two of the 6 players you've listed haven't played a snap for the Bears yet?

Sure there are others you haven't listed but I see a pattern of mistakes from Pace in free agency that significantly reduces our chances of winning. 2017 free agency alone wasted between $30+ in cap space from Glennon, Sims, Wheaton and Cooper. Yes it didn't hurt our flexibility going forward but that misses the opportunity cost. That $30m should have made the roster better and it absolutely didn't. Perhaps Sims or Cooper help this season but I'm not holding my breath.

I HATE that we let Meredith go and have posted at length on that. Still, this isn't a confirmation of anything yet. If Meredith is broken down from here on out, does that confirm that Pace is bad at FA? It's a wait and see.

I really try and stay away from basing my views on hindsight. Meredith's injury isn't what bothers me about this situation, its the tender. My view is that Pace gambled Meredith getting a better offer to save $1m, and that was a bad bet. If he issues a 2nd round tender then we're pretty much guaranteed Meredith in 2018, no one is giving up that pick for him. Once we have him locked in, Pace can negotiate a team friendly deal that offers Meredith more security for a lower overall cost to the team. Instead, with the original round tender, Pace just lets the market set the deal and has lost out.

So this isn't about whether Meredith will end up being good or healthy or whatever, it's about Pace making poor tactical decisions in how he addresses free agency. His appraisal of risk/reward seems very poor to me.

I understand your point about tactical decision making and there's value in grading that.

Still, to say that it "isn't about whether Meredith will end up being good or healthy or whatever" kind of misses the point in my view. That's like saying "if you picked the player in a "value" spot, that's all that matters in judging a draft pick, not how well he plays". It's sorta like the Trubisky deal last year. If you think he didn't have to trade up and gave away draft picks needlessly, then is it automatically a bad pick, even if Biscuit turns out to be a Pro Bowl player? I'd say no to that, although if he turns out badly, trading the picks to move up only make it worse.

Back to Meredith, if Pace had decided that based on the medicals, Cam needed to go unless it was for a $1.9M pittance and then he signs elsewere and does nothing else going forward, then how is that a bad move for Pace, if he didn't want to pay the $2.9M for the higher tender and didn't think teams would offer them anything to take him?

[crueltyabc]

There will not be a better player available at the $3m price after the draft and we will probably still need a receiver...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[malk]

I understand your point about tactical decision making and there's value in grading that.

Still, to say that it "isn't about whether Meredith will end up being good or healthy or whatever" kind of misses the point in my view. That's like saying "if you picked the player in a "value" spot, that's all that matters in judging a draft pick, not how well he plays". It's sorta like the Trubisky deal last year. If you think he didn't have to trade up and gave away draft picks needlessly, then is it automatically a bad pick, even if Biscuit turns out to be a Pro Bowl player? I'd say no to that, although if he turns out badly, trading the picks to move up only make it worse.

Back to Meredith, if Pace had decided that based on the medicals, Cam needed to go unless it was for a $1.9M pittance and then he signs elsewhere and does nothing else going forward, then how is that a bad move for Pace, if he didn't want to pay the $2.9M for the higher tender and didn't think teams would offer them anything to take him?

Fair point on the bolded part. I should rephrase to it isn't only about whether the player will end up good or not. I've used the McPhee example before. I still think it was a great signing, even though it didn't work out. The talent evaluation was correct as evidenced by his play when fit. The projection from him being a part time player to starter, along with the injury concerns, kept the overall price down and the deal didn't tie up too much cap space long term. As a contract it didn't have huge downside risk and had a good potential for upside. I personally think he wasn't that far off earning his money, he was paid as a top 20 edge rusher and performed at about that level. As an aside, I still think letting him go was a mistake. He's signed with Washington for $1.8m and we used $1.5m just to get rid of him ($1m dead cap and $500k min cost of replacement). A restructure with us would have worked out better for both sides*.

I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.

[Hiphopopotamos]

Pace all but confirmed in the press conference today that the Mereditch decision was a medical decision. Said that they lean heavily on the training staff and docs and when asked about NO said that different teams can come to different assessments.

[sturf]

I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.

It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.

[Rakshir]

I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.

It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.

You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.

[Richie]

In his pre-draft presser today, Pace further implied that the medical role had a big impact on the Meredith decision. Where Meredith was the subject of the first two questions asked.

"We lean on our doctors" - "We lean on our training staff"

[video][/video]

[Adipost]

I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.

It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.

You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.

Good points. People were blowing off the Glennon contract saying that the Bears had to spend the money somewhere, and we had plenty of cap space. But now 1 million more for Meredith is being viewed as this daunting figure.

[Richie]

I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.

It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.

You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.

Good points. People were blowing off the Glennon contract saying that the Bears had to spend the money somewhere, and we had plenty of cap space. But now 1 million more for Meredith is being viewed as this daunting figure.

People keep citing the money and how inconsequential the 2nd round tender would have been. However, I no longer think that's the way to look at this. At least if you are trying to get an idea of what Pace/Bears were thinking. I honestly believe the Bears have huge doubts about his knee, the team doctors have expressed concerns and that they don't want to be leaning on him in any capacity this upcoming year. When they already decided to make a big investment in a guy coming off of a knee injury in Robinson. Which was a lesser injury, FWIW.

[docc]

The past is like last yesterday's dinner..and you know what that looks like ?

[malk]

I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.

It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.

You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.

Good points. People were blowing off the Glennon contract saying that the Bears had to spend the money somewhere, and we had plenty of cap space. But now 1 million more for Meredith is being viewed as this daunting figure.

People keep citing the money and how inconsequential the 2nd round tender would have been. However, I no longer think that's the way to look at this. At least if you are trying to get an idea of what Pace/Bears were thinking. I honestly believe the Bears have huge doubts about his knee, the team doctors have expressed concerns and that they don't want to be leaning on him in any capacity this upcoming year. When they already decided to make a big investment in a guy coming off of a knee injury in Robinson. Which was a lesser injury, FWIW.

I'm working on the assumption that the intention was always to offer a multi year deal and the original round tender was used to be allowed to match. If they were that concerned about the knee, presumably they'd imagine other teams would be similarly concerned and wouldn't bother offering anything or something they'd be happy to match.

I guess they could also have wanted a cheap year to assess him and then resign as a free agent the following year. This once again plays into my main criticism of Pace, his being too risk averse. In that scenario Meredith either:

Is unfit/can't get back to form. In which case the $1.9m was wasted.
Plays well enough for an extension. In which case his price goes up significantly.

In the end Meredith's price went up anyway but if we gave the 2nd round tender, I'm absolutely sure no one offers him a contract and then it's a different calculation for Meredith. Do I take $2.9m and test myself and the market or do I take whatever multi year deal the Bears offer, bank more guaranteed now and go for a big deal as a 28 year old in 3 years time.

If I'm Pace I give the 2nd round tag then offer the 3 years $10m I said way back (or $12m or whatever is reasonable, I'm guessing as I obviously don't know the real market at all) and make it plain that the guarantees give him two years on the roster, two years to show he's fit rather than one. I'd also try to sell an assurance that if he plays well enough, we'd look to extend after two years and pay him better.

Maybe Meredith doesn't buy any of that but I fail to see how that tactic could be much worse than what Pace did. Essentially you could lose whatever the guaranteed money on Meredith's contract is if he can't get back at all. Frankly, Pace is willing to lose that and more each year on punts for players like Cooper or Wheaton.

I think he's really poor strategically but will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt as it may be due to not previously having a good idea of what he's building. I'd hoped that being set with Trubisky and Nagy meant he'd be in a better place this off season but Nagy will need time to fit so Pace gets another pass from me.

I should point out that getting a pass doesn't mean I'll be calling for his head any time soon, he's got Nagy's contract to prove himself. Rather that he has until next year to start making better strategic decisions before I fully denigrate him for not doing so. Heck, they're not even essential to winning, they just make it easier.

All this said, there's absolutely no way Pace changes so I'm typing into the void!

[Boris13c]

The past is like last yesterday's dinner..and you know what that looks like ?

there are some past moments that are golden of course ... but yeah, many things are as you reference

[Boris13c]

hey - you think this thread about a decent but not great receiver no longer being a member of the Bears can hit 50 pages ?

[Boris13c]

wanna try?

[Boris13c]

proof the off season is boring to football starved Bears faithful

[UOK]

We're going to be talking about the Cam Meredith debacle for years to come.

[G08]

I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread

[Boris13c]

I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread

really?

but why?

don't you find the discussion scintillating?

[Otis Day]

[wab]

The first two touchdown game he has, Bears fans are gonna freak the hell out.

[Mikefive]

We're going to be talking about the Cam Meredith debacle for years to come.

Not if he's done. But if he isn't..........

[thunderspirit]

We're going to be talking about the Cam Meredith debacle for years to come.

Not if he's done. But if he isn't..........

If he isn't, Pace gambled and lost the bet.

It's really just that simple.