Update: Bears don't match Meredith offer, joins Saints

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malk
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Mikefive wrote:I understand your point about tactical decision making and there's value in grading that.

Still, to say that it "isn't about whether Meredith will end up being good or healthy or whatever" kind of misses the point in my view. That's like saying "if you picked the player in a "value" spot, that's all that matters in judging a draft pick, not how well he plays". It's sorta like the Trubisky deal last year. If you think he didn't have to trade up and gave away draft picks needlessly, then is it automatically a bad pick, even if Biscuit turns out to be a Pro Bowl player? I'd say no to that, although if he turns out badly, trading the picks to move up only make it worse.

Back to Meredith, if Pace had decided that based on the medicals, Cam needed to go unless it was for a $1.9M pittance and then he signs elsewhere and does nothing else going forward, then how is that a bad move for Pace, if he didn't want to pay the $2.9M for the higher tender and didn't think teams would offer them anything to take him?
Fair point on the bolded part. I should rephrase to it isn't only about whether the player will end up good or not. I've used the McPhee example before. I still think it was a great signing, even though it didn't work out. The talent evaluation was correct as evidenced by his play when fit. The projection from him being a part time player to starter, along with the injury concerns, kept the overall price down and the deal didn't tie up too much cap space long term. As a contract it didn't have huge downside risk and had a good potential for upside. I personally think he wasn't that far off earning his money, he was paid as a top 20 edge rusher and performed at about that level. As an aside, I still think letting him go was a mistake. He's signed with Washington for $1.8m and we used $1.5m just to get rid of him ($1m dead cap and $500k min cost of replacement). A restructure with us would have worked out better for both sides*.

I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.
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Pace all but confirmed in the press conference today that the Mereditch decision was a medical decision. Said that they lean heavily on the training staff and docs and when asked about NO said that different teams can come to different assessments.
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malk wrote:I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.
It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.
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sturf wrote:
malk wrote:I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.
It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.
You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.
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In his pre-draft presser today, Pace further implied that the medical role had a big impact on the Meredith decision. Where Meredith was the subject of the first two questions asked.

"We lean on our doctors" - "We lean on our training staff"

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Rakshir wrote:
sturf wrote:
malk wrote:I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.
It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.
You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.
Good points. People were blowing off the Glennon contract saying that the Bears had to spend the money somewhere, and we had plenty of cap space. But now 1 million more for Meredith is being viewed as this daunting figure.
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Adipost wrote:
Rakshir wrote:
sturf wrote:
malk wrote:I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.
It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.
You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.
Good points. People were blowing off the Glennon contract saying that the Bears had to spend the money somewhere, and we had plenty of cap space. But now 1 million more for Meredith is being viewed as this daunting figure.
People keep citing the money and how inconsequential the 2nd round tender would have been. However, I no longer think that's the way to look at this. At least if you are trying to get an idea of what Pace/Bears were thinking. I honestly believe the Bears have huge doubts about his knee, the team doctors have expressed concerns and that they don't want to be leaning on him in any capacity this upcoming year. When they already decided to make a big investment in a guy coming off of a knee injury in Robinson. Which was a lesser injury, FWIW.
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Richie wrote:
Adipost wrote:
Rakshir wrote:
sturf wrote:
malk wrote:I don't agree with your last part on Meredith. I just don't see that there's a good risk model with the medicals that make $1.9m ok and $2.9m not, when that $2.9m gives you control.
It gives you control for exactly 1 year only then Meredith is a free agent. If the Bears believe the knee is questionable what good does 1 year of control do. You pay him a extra million more to rehab and then be an unrestricted free agent.
You can then sign him to a long term deal, especially when you have other question marks at WR this year that have to be worked out. Your really trying to say that 1 million dollars matters that much but pissing away 16 million on Glennon is totaly acceptable, and we're only 20'ish million under the cap at this point ?
What if Kevin White gets hurt again ? What if Robinson isn't fully healed ? If his knee is good and he kills it, you have the option to sign him long term BEFORE he becomes a free agent next year. But it's all water under the bridge at this point.
Good points. People were blowing off the Glennon contract saying that the Bears had to spend the money somewhere, and we had plenty of cap space. But now 1 million more for Meredith is being viewed as this daunting figure.
People keep citing the money and how inconsequential the 2nd round tender would have been. However, I no longer think that's the way to look at this. At least if you are trying to get an idea of what Pace/Bears were thinking. I honestly believe the Bears have huge doubts about his knee, the team doctors have expressed concerns and that they don't want to be leaning on him in any capacity this upcoming year. When they already decided to make a big investment in a guy coming off of a knee injury in Robinson. Which was a lesser injury, FWIW.
I'm working on the assumption that the intention was always to offer a multi year deal and the original round tender was used to be allowed to match. If they were that concerned about the knee, presumably they'd imagine other teams would be similarly concerned and wouldn't bother offering anything or something they'd be happy to match.

I guess they could also have wanted a cheap year to assess him and then resign as a free agent the following year. This once again plays into my main criticism of Pace, his being too risk averse. In that scenario Meredith either:

Is unfit/can't get back to form. In which case the $1.9m was wasted.
Plays well enough for an extension. In which case his price goes up significantly.

In the end Meredith's price went up anyway but if we gave the 2nd round tender, I'm absolutely sure no one offers him a contract and then it's a different calculation for Meredith. Do I take $2.9m and test myself and the market or do I take whatever multi year deal the Bears offer, bank more guaranteed now and go for a big deal as a 28 year old in 3 years time.

If I'm Pace I give the 2nd round tag then offer the 3 years $10m I said way back (or $12m or whatever is reasonable, I'm guessing as I obviously don't know the real market at all) and make it plain that the guarantees give him two years on the roster, two years to show he's fit rather than one. I'd also try to sell an assurance that if he plays well enough, we'd look to extend after two years and pay him better.

Maybe Meredith doesn't buy any of that but I fail to see how that tactic could be much worse than what Pace did. Essentially you could lose whatever the guaranteed money on Meredith's contract is if he can't get back at all. Frankly, Pace is willing to lose that and more each year on punts for players like Cooper or Wheaton.

I think he's really poor strategically but will continue to give him the benefit of the doubt as it may be due to not previously having a good idea of what he's building. I'd hoped that being set with Trubisky and Nagy meant he'd be in a better place this off season but Nagy will need time to fit so Pace gets another pass from me.

I should point out that getting a pass doesn't mean I'll be calling for his head any time soon, he's got Nagy's contract to prove himself. Rather that he has until next year to start making better strategic decisions before I fully denigrate him for not doing so. Heck, they're not even essential to winning, they just make it easier.

All this said, there's absolutely no way Pace changes so I'm typing into the void!
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docc wrote:The past is like last yesterday's dinner..and you know what that looks like ?

:clap:

there are some past moments that are golden of course ... but yeah, many things are as you reference
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hey - you think this thread about a decent but not great receiver no longer being a member of the Bears can hit 50 pages ?
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wanna try?
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proof the off season is boring to football starved Bears faithful
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We're going to be talking about the Cam Meredith debacle for years to come.
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I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread :lol:
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G08 wrote:I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread :lol:

really?

but why?

don't you find the discussion scintillating?

:jump:
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The first two touchdown game he has, Bears fans are gonna freak the hell out.
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UOK wrote:We're going to be talking about the Cam Meredith debacle for years to come.
Not if he's done. But if he isn't..........
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Mikefive wrote:
UOK wrote:We're going to be talking about the Cam Meredith debacle for years to come.
Not if he's done. But if he isn't..........
If he isn't, Pace gambled and lost the bet.

It's really just that simple.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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G08 wrote:I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread :lol:
Groan like this?

https://twitter.com/AnthonyHopkins/stat ... 1938742273
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malk wrote:
G08 wrote:I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread :lol:
Groan like this?

https://twitter.com/AnthonyHopkins/stat ... 1938742273

or maybe more like this :

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G08 wrote:I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread :lol:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SaintsNOW/status/999729244401012737
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It would be so Bearsish for Cam to have a 12 TD 1200 years season, and Robinson and Gabriel to have a combined 8 TD and 1000 yard season.
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mmmc_35 wrote:It would be so Bearsish for Cam to have a 12 TD 1200 years season, and Robinson and Gabriel to have a combined 8 TD and 1000 yard season.
I agree, though much of the likelihood of that happening comes down to the difference between Brees and Trubisky.
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Saints receiver Cameron Meredith 'way ahead of schedule' in return from knee injury
New Orleans Saints receiver Cameron Meredith is ahead of schedule in his return from a knee injury that kept him off the field for the entire 2017 season, coach Sean Payton said Thursday (May 24).

The 6-foot-3, 207-pound receiver who the Saints signed as a free agent this offseason did not participate in team drills during Thursday's OTA practice but Payton said his participation was encouraging.

"I made a comment to (Saints' director of sports medicine) Beau (Lowery) two days ago during the walk through," Payton said. "Just watching him move around and, you guys saw him, he's way ahead of schedule. And certainly where our doctor our doctors had hoped and even better.

"So, he's going to factor in this year. He's a player that we've got a real clear vision for."

The Saints landed the 25-year-old receiver as a restricted free agent after the Chicago Bears declined to match New Orleans' offer. He sustained a knee injury in the 2017 preseason but was coming off of a 2016 campaign that saw him catch 66 passes for 888 yards and four touchdowns.

Meredith said soon after the Saints acquired him he expected to be ready for the start of the season.
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[video][/video]
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Adipost wrote:
G08 wrote:I groan every time I see there's been another post in this thread :lol:
https://mobile.twitter.com/SaintsNOW/status/999729244401012737
God damn it.
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If keeping Meredith means that we never drafted Miller, even though I have no idea if he'll work out or not, then I'm glad we let Meredith go. Miller's potential is far greater than Meredith's ceiling especially post injury and we have AR15, Gabriel and Burton which more than offset not have Meredith.
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The Marshall Plan wrote:If keeping Meredith means that we never drafted Miller, even though I have no idea if he'll work out or not, then I'm glad we let Meredith go. Miller's potential is far greater than Meredith's ceiling especially post injury and we have AR15, Gabriel and Burton which more than offset not have Meredith.
I disagree. Miller could be great but Cam has just as high of a ceiling in my opinion, and his floor is known and better.
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