He’s also been in the process of completely turning over the roster. There’s only a handful of players from the Emery era left. With that is going to come some short term free agency patches. They aren’t all supposed to work out. They have been low risk signings with minimal cap impact.
I get that we all want every free agent to explode with the Bears but that’s just not how it all works.
BLOG: They Can't All Be Winners
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I don't understand the consternation, I see a lot of young and talented players on this roster.
Franchise QB
Franchise WR
Franchise RB
Franchise DL
Franchise CB
Franchise OLB (ehhh, let's hold off on that for now because Floyd isn't that just yet)
All those players, save for the CB, have been acquired during Pace's regime over the course of 3.5 years. That's not bad at all.
Franchise QB
Franchise WR
Franchise RB
Franchise DL
Franchise CB
Franchise OLB (ehhh, let's hold off on that for now because Floyd isn't that just yet)
All those players, save for the CB, have been acquired during Pace's regime over the course of 3.5 years. That's not bad at all.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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I have an entire post set for all the positives I see in the roster and Pace's hits so far too, so don't fret. I too see the light at the end of the tunnel.G08 wrote:I don't understand the consternation, I see a lot of young and talented players on this roster.
Franchise QB
Franchise WR
Franchise RB
Franchise DL
Franchise CB
Franchise OLB (ehhh, let's hold off on that for now because Floyd isn't that just yet)
All those players, save for the CB, have been acquired during Pace's regime over the course of 3.5 years. That's not bad at all.
- The Marshall Plan
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I actually like Ryan Pace. You did a pretty thorough job documenting his missteps even though the team is moving forward overall. The only thing I'll add is not trading for Marcus Peters.
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I only have one gripe with Pace, and it’s Mike Glennon. Even though I understand all the angles of why he did it, I fucking hate Mike Glennon.
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I don't necessarily think he has done a bad job, but I don't think he has done a great job either. My confidence level in him is fairly neutral. Things are obviously very tied to Trubisky, and I hope he got that right. Yet in 3 years I can't say the roster is more talented. Sure there are reasons
It's not Meredith as one poster suggested. obviously like most I think that was a mistake. Like the blog detailed there have been a number of players who did not work out. A lot of players are still unknowns and or questions surround them.
It's not Meredith as one poster suggested. obviously like most I think that was a mistake. Like the blog detailed there have been a number of players who did not work out. A lot of players are still unknowns and or questions surround them.
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I suppose it depends on how you define a "Franchise" player... IMO, a 'franchise player' has to be top 10 in the league at his position.G08 wrote:I don't understand the consternation, I see a lot of young and talented players on this roster.
Franchise QB
Franchise WR
Franchise RB
Franchise DL
Franchise CB
Franchise OLB (ehhh, let's hold off on that for now because Floyd isn't that just yet)
All those players, save for the CB, have been acquired during Pace's regime over the course of 3.5 years. That's not bad at all.
I would argue that we don't have a franchise RB, CB, or DL. Possibly we have a Franchise QB. We have a potential Franchise WR coming off an injury.
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You can substitute franchise for "young, ascending talent in that case.
Promising rookie QB, 24 year old Pro Bowl WR, 23 year old Pro Bowl RB, etc.
Promising rookie QB, 24 year old Pro Bowl WR, 23 year old Pro Bowl RB, etc.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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So Franchise = Good, but not necessarily Pro Bowl? It's curious that you use that term, since in another context, "franchise" means "top 5" in the league, which doesn't apply to any Bear players, IMO. I'm thinking your definition is only your own and thus confusing. I suggest the term "Quality" instead.G08 wrote:I don't understand the consternation, I see a lot of young and talented players on this roster.
Franchise QB
Franchise WR
Franchise RB
Franchise DL
Franchise CB
Franchise OLB (ehhh, let's hold off on that for now because Floyd isn't that just yet)
All those players, save for the CB, have been acquired during Pace's regime over the course of 3.5 years. That's not bad at all.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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Man I've got the semantics crew on my ass today
Franchise in the instance I used it originated from looking at the depleted and old roster Pace inherited. In the 3.5 years he has been here, he has overhauled most of the dead weight and acquired young, ascending talent. I use 'franchise' in this instance as saying young players that have demonstrated value AND indicate no reason to think they will not get better.
Mitch Trubisky
Jordan Howard
Tarik Cohen
Allen Robinson
Charles Leno (no he didn't draft him but he did re-sign him)
Cody Whitehair
Akiem Hicks
Eddie Goldman
Danny Trevathan
Leonard Floyd (this is debatable at the moment since I want a 10 sack season under his belt yesterday)
Kyle Fuller
Eddie Jackson
Adrian Amos (also debatable)
I'm sure I'm missing some players, but that's a damned good 13 on the whole, if you ask me.
Franchise in the instance I used it originated from looking at the depleted and old roster Pace inherited. In the 3.5 years he has been here, he has overhauled most of the dead weight and acquired young, ascending talent. I use 'franchise' in this instance as saying young players that have demonstrated value AND indicate no reason to think they will not get better.
Mitch Trubisky
Jordan Howard
Tarik Cohen
Allen Robinson
Charles Leno (no he didn't draft him but he did re-sign him)
Cody Whitehair
Akiem Hicks
Eddie Goldman
Danny Trevathan
Leonard Floyd (this is debatable at the moment since I want a 10 sack season under his belt yesterday)
Kyle Fuller
Eddie Jackson
Adrian Amos (also debatable)
I'm sure I'm missing some players, but that's a damned good 13 on the whole, if you ask me.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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Is this the point where I chide you for using the dreaded double negative?G08 wrote:Man I've got the semantics crew on my ass today
Franchise in the instance I used it originated from looking at the depleted and old roster Pace inherited. In the 3.5 years he has been here, he has overhauled most of the dead weight and acquired young, ascending talent. I use 'franchise' in this instance as saying young players that have demonstrated value AND indicate no reason to think they will not get better.
Mitch Trubisky
Jordan Howard
Tarik Cohen
Allen Robinson
Charles Leno (no he didn't draft him but he did re-sign him)
Cody Whitehair
Akiem Hicks
Eddie Goldman
Danny Trevathan
Leonard Floyd (this is debatable at the moment since I want a 10 sack season under his belt yesterday)
Kyle Fuller
Eddie Jackson
Adrian Amos (also debatable)
I'm sure I'm missing some players, but that's a damned good 13 on the whole, if you ask me.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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no because I don't believe they HAVE indicated reasons to think they WILL get better. It's safer to say that I have not seen anything that leads me to believe they will NOT improve rather than presume they WILL get better.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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I also think things are getting better, I just think it's been damn slow and painful.
"he had to turn the team over"
The team turned over pretty soon after he arrived. He didn't have long brutal contracts and loads of dead money to deal with really. He had a few bad locker room guys and bad coaches. He dealt with BMarsh decisively, and he brought in good assistant coaches - I give him credit for those moves conveying a vision for the team. But then he proceeded to churn the entire roster like 2 times in the following three years. That was his process? Burn multiple seasons while we add good draft picks one or two at a time? He couldn't bring in guys who could stick around. The players and coaches he was replacing this year were his players. So I guess I should "trust this guy's process" of getting it right on the 3rd try? That seems like a pretty low bar for a guy who was supposed to be a whiz kid talent evaluator.
"he had to turn the team over"
The team turned over pretty soon after he arrived. He didn't have long brutal contracts and loads of dead money to deal with really. He had a few bad locker room guys and bad coaches. He dealt with BMarsh decisively, and he brought in good assistant coaches - I give him credit for those moves conveying a vision for the team. But then he proceeded to churn the entire roster like 2 times in the following three years. That was his process? Burn multiple seasons while we add good draft picks one or two at a time? He couldn't bring in guys who could stick around. The players and coaches he was replacing this year were his players. So I guess I should "trust this guy's process" of getting it right on the 3rd try? That seems like a pretty low bar for a guy who was supposed to be a whiz kid talent evaluator.
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I think he took minimal risks in some of his FA signings with the intention of always wanting to build through the draft. He could tell us this is going to be a 4-5 year process, because our cupboard was fucking barren, man. He unfortunately was the one that had ALL those failed drafts from the Angelo era (and subsequently the Emery era) fall on his head.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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I guess I'm impressed by your patience? I look at the 2016 and 2017 seasons and see plenty of bad choices that slowed this thing down. It didn't have to take 4-5 years. It could have been faster if he'd identified a free agent pass rusher sooner. Or a wide receiver sooner. He could have gotten RB right on the first try. He could have hit on more olinemen picks. He could have anticipated Fuller's ascension and thus saved some money this year. There was a PED issue and a domestic violence issue. Etc etc. I'm even giving him a pass on QB because nobody does that well... but a great GM could have turned this around sooner IMO.
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I'm not typically a patient person, but I witnessed Phil Emery try a quick-fix with this team and it just made things worse. I don't believe in kicking the proverbial can down the road until you finally run out of road. I also think seeing the Cubs be patient and build through the draft (yeah I know, different sport) really gave me an appreciation for stepping back and seeing the big picture of sports and how to build a roster/team.crueltyabc wrote:I guess I'm impressed by your patience? I look at the 2016 and 2017 seasons and see plenty of bad choices that slowed this thing down. It didn't have to take 4-5 years. It could have been faster if he'd identified a free agent pass rusher sooner. Or a wide receiver sooner. He could have gotten RB right on the first try. He could have hit on more olinemen picks. He could have anticipated Fuller's ascension and thus saved some money this year. There was a PED issue and a domestic violence issue. Etc etc. I'm even giving him a pass on QB because nobody does that well... but a great GM could have turned this around sooner IMO.
Looking at our 53 right now compared to 3 years ago, I'm pretty happy -- and we still have a top 8 and top 39 pick to add to this roster.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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Pace inherited a total shitshow and a coach that he most likely had little to no say in hiring.
The fact that we are even where we are is a testament to his potential as a GM.
OK fine, he's screwed up some draft picks and FAs. Name a GM that hasn't.
The overall direction of the organization is upwards and I personally haven't been this excited in years. Probably since we signed Julius Peppers.
The fact that we are even where we are is a testament to his potential as a GM.
OK fine, he's screwed up some draft picks and FAs. Name a GM that hasn't.
The overall direction of the organization is upwards and I personally haven't been this excited in years. Probably since we signed Julius Peppers.
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what did the title, "they all can't be winners" pertain to? the blog? because if you expect any GM to hit on 100% of his draft choices, that's just silliness.
i'll give you Kevin White and Hroniss Grasu, but when you start trolling in the Deon Bush and Deiondre Hall, those will ALWAYS be long shots. desperate for material you pick on adam shaheen and i don't know of many people who expect a guy from Ashland University to kill it in his freshman campaign. Jordan Morgan in the 5th round? we would have been super fortunate to have very many 5th rounders pan out. some do, most don't. so if that's a big dig on Pace, can't see it.
oh wait a minute, since there are some unwritten rules in this forum (you know, kill the ring type stuff), what i meant to say is this blog was the greatest blog i may have ever read. i literally creamed myself.
i'll give you Kevin White and Hroniss Grasu, but when you start trolling in the Deon Bush and Deiondre Hall, those will ALWAYS be long shots. desperate for material you pick on adam shaheen and i don't know of many people who expect a guy from Ashland University to kill it in his freshman campaign. Jordan Morgan in the 5th round? we would have been super fortunate to have very many 5th rounders pan out. some do, most don't. so if that's a big dig on Pace, can't see it.
oh wait a minute, since there are some unwritten rules in this forum (you know, kill the ring type stuff), what i meant to say is this blog was the greatest blog i may have ever read. i literally creamed myself.
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Dude, what a waste. I've stayed out of this up to this point. But you're too bright to simply dedicate yourself to bashing someone at a place where you're the newbie. You take a title which if anything, implies that his expectation is that 100% is impossible to achieve and somehow spin that to mean exactly the opposite? Why don't you go find a place where you can play nice with others and use your clearly capable brain for something more productive? Or at least make some effort to get along?MrPrettyBoyFancyLad wrote:what did the title, "they all can't be winners" pertain to? the blog? because if you expect any GM to hit on 100% of his draft choices, that's just silliness.
i'll give you Kevin White and Hroniss Grasu, but when you start trolling in the Deon Bush and Deiondre Hall, those will ALWAYS be long shots. desperate for material you pick on adam shaheen and i don't know of many people who expect a guy from Ashland University to kill it in his freshman campaign. Jordan Morgan in the 5th round? we would have been super fortunate to have very many 5th rounders pan out. some do, most don't. so if that's a big dig on Pace, can't see it.
oh wait a minute, since there are some unwritten rules in this forum (you know, kill the ring type stuff), what i meant to say is this blog was the greatest blog i may have ever read. i literally creamed myself.
That's it. I'm done.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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You have anything else?MrPrettyBoyFancyLad wrote:what did the title, "they all can't be winners" pertain to? the blog? because if you expect any GM to hit on 100% of his draft choices, that's just silliness.
i'll give you Kevin White and Hroniss Grasu, but when you start trolling in the Deon Bush and Deiondre Hall, those will ALWAYS be long shots. desperate for material you pick on adam shaheen and i don't know of many people who expect a guy from Ashland University to kill it in his freshman campaign. Jordan Morgan in the 5th round? we would have been super fortunate to have very many 5th rounders pan out. some do, most don't. so if that's a big dig on Pace, can't see it.
oh wait a minute, since there are some unwritten rules in this forum (you know, kill the ring type stuff), what i meant to say is this blog was the greatest blog i may have ever read. i literally creamed myself.
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what? why? what are you talking about? oh shit, i wrote another post, didn't i? oh boy, let me read it.UOK wrote:You have anything else?MrPrettyBoyFancyLad wrote:what did the title, "they all can't be winners" pertain to? the blog? because if you expect any GM to hit on 100% of his draft choices, that's just silliness.
i'll give you Kevin White and Hroniss Grasu, but when you start trolling in the Deon Bush and Deiondre Hall, those will ALWAYS be long shots. desperate for material you pick on adam shaheen and i don't know of many people who expect a guy from Ashland University to kill it in his freshman campaign. Jordan Morgan in the 5th round? we would have been super fortunate to have very many 5th rounders pan out. some do, most don't. so if that's a big dig on Pace, can't see it.
oh wait a minute, since there are some unwritten rules in this forum (you know, kill the ring type stuff), what i meant to say is this blog was the greatest blog i may have ever read. i literally creamed myself.
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wow! i really don't know what to say. that was just mean, wasn't it? i know everyone is too polite to say it, but what a dick, right?
listen, i am deeply embarrassed. i'm going to have to go to church tomorrow for that one. now, if i only knew where a church was and what a church was.
listen, i am deeply embarrassed. i'm going to have to go to church tomorrow for that one. now, if i only knew where a church was and what a church was.
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hmm, you've really given me a lot to think about with this one. what you've done here, sir, is held up a mirror and i will tell you right now, i did not like what i saw.Mikefive wrote:Dude, what a waste. I've stayed out of this up to this point. But you're too bright to simply dedicate yourself to bashing someone at a place where you're the newbie. You take a title which if anything, implies that his expectation is that 100% is impossible to achieve and somehow spin that to mean exactly the opposite? Why don't you go find a place where you can play nice with others and use your clearly capable brain for something more productive? Or at least make some effort to get along?MrPrettyBoyFancyLad wrote:what did the title, "they all can't be winners" pertain to? the blog? because if you expect any GM to hit on 100% of his draft choices, that's just silliness.
i'll give you Kevin White and Hroniss Grasu, but when you start trolling in the Deon Bush and Deiondre Hall, those will ALWAYS be long shots. desperate for material you pick on adam shaheen and i don't know of many people who expect a guy from Ashland University to kill it in his freshman campaign. Jordan Morgan in the 5th round? we would have been super fortunate to have very many 5th rounders pan out. some do, most don't. so if that's a big dig on Pace, can't see it.
oh wait a minute, since there are some unwritten rules in this forum (you know, kill the ring type stuff), what i meant to say is this blog was the greatest blog i may have ever read. i literally creamed myself.
That's it. I'm done.
i thank you for your sage counsel.
now if you'll excuse me, i need to get balls deep into a bag of pork rinds and a box set of dowton abbey post fucking haste.
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I don’t care at all if people are critical of how I run the board, how I write, my show, etc. I try to be fair, not take it all terribly seriously, and listen to my members when they air grievances. Sometimes that results in having to make unpopular decisions, but I don’t feel like I’ve ever let anybody here down too badly in the 10 years I’ve been here. I don’t expect anyone to kiss my ass, and I certainly don’t want to create an atmosphere where you agree with me...or else.
It may seem like there’s a lot of my content, what with the blog posts and the new podcast, but I have always reached out to the community for their essays or original content. I crave that stuff. Not everybody’s cup of tea, however.
Fancy, you’re clearly an awesome writer. You’ve got style, you’re well-spoken, and I dig it. I want that around here, and I think most see the same and agree. I get it if you don’t like my thoughts or feel my content isn’t up to snuff, but you came out swinging with responses that were 8s and 9s in a context where logical criticism at most would be a 6.
It came off to me, anyway, overblown to the sense of being absurd, but more to the point it kind of gave off an uncomfortable vibe. If I overreacted in return, I apologize. And to the community, if you feel like you’re hearing my voice too much, or feel as if I’ve cultivated an atmosphere of “kiss the ring,” communicate that to me via PM.
Anyways, I look forward to reading your thoughts on more actual Bears-related stuff in the future, and hopefully less sledgehammer criticism of my non-expert toilet reading/listening material.
It may seem like there’s a lot of my content, what with the blog posts and the new podcast, but I have always reached out to the community for their essays or original content. I crave that stuff. Not everybody’s cup of tea, however.
Fancy, you’re clearly an awesome writer. You’ve got style, you’re well-spoken, and I dig it. I want that around here, and I think most see the same and agree. I get it if you don’t like my thoughts or feel my content isn’t up to snuff, but you came out swinging with responses that were 8s and 9s in a context where logical criticism at most would be a 6.
It came off to me, anyway, overblown to the sense of being absurd, but more to the point it kind of gave off an uncomfortable vibe. If I overreacted in return, I apologize. And to the community, if you feel like you’re hearing my voice too much, or feel as if I’ve cultivated an atmosphere of “kiss the ring,” communicate that to me via PM.
Anyways, I look forward to reading your thoughts on more actual Bears-related stuff in the future, and hopefully less sledgehammer criticism of my non-expert toilet reading/listening material.
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Not that anybody cares what I think, but here's my perspective...
When you choose to join a group with mutual interest--a club, if you will--then the social presumption is that you have to make some effort to get along, since you are the newbie after all. You are expected to grant leadership some benefit of the doubt that they have earned some credibility on the basis of the group actually having membership. If the leadership was so awful, then everyone would leave and the community would cease to exist, right? If you as the new member are so opposed to the leadership that you must immediately and loudly oppose them, then why would you not just depart for another club? Instead, you would rather get into pissing matches and choose not to make some effort to blend in, then clearly that's who you are, someone who would rather fight with authority than to just engage in civil debate.
Unfortunately, this isn't an old fashioned club. It's an internet message board. Some people are wired to be natural antagonists and the internet provides plenty of places like this, which can attract such folks.
I see FancyLad as a person of high intelligence who can demonstrably write very well, and thus, could be an excellent add to this community. However, he also is clearly more interested in poking the bear than being a community member who accepts the differences among us. That's unfortunate in this context.
Fortunately for me but unfortunately overall, I've turned off seeing posts by this user. Time to move on.
When you choose to join a group with mutual interest--a club, if you will--then the social presumption is that you have to make some effort to get along, since you are the newbie after all. You are expected to grant leadership some benefit of the doubt that they have earned some credibility on the basis of the group actually having membership. If the leadership was so awful, then everyone would leave and the community would cease to exist, right? If you as the new member are so opposed to the leadership that you must immediately and loudly oppose them, then why would you not just depart for another club? Instead, you would rather get into pissing matches and choose not to make some effort to blend in, then clearly that's who you are, someone who would rather fight with authority than to just engage in civil debate.
Unfortunately, this isn't an old fashioned club. It's an internet message board. Some people are wired to be natural antagonists and the internet provides plenty of places like this, which can attract such folks.
I see FancyLad as a person of high intelligence who can demonstrably write very well, and thus, could be an excellent add to this community. However, he also is clearly more interested in poking the bear than being a community member who accepts the differences among us. That's unfortunate in this context.
Fortunately for me but unfortunately overall, I've turned off seeing posts by this user. Time to move on.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
- Bears Whiskey Nut
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Let. It. Go.wab wrote:I only have one gripe with Pace, and it’s Mike Glennon. Even though I understand all the angles of why he did it, I fucking hate Mike Glennon.
Glennon is gone.
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Oh. I’m sorry, I thought we were in a thread talking about Pace’s missteps - Glennon being the biggest. As noted in the blog piece.Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:Let. It. Go.wab wrote:I only have one gripe with Pace, and it’s Mike Glennon. Even though I understand all the angles of why he did it, I fucking hate Mike Glennon.
Glennon is gone.
What a mistake I’ve made.
- Bears Whiskey Nut
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Glennon is the obvious choice for Pace miscues. The giraffe couldn't even take a snap from center successfully. But you always seem to have a slightly irrational level of hatred for Glennon. That's all I'm saying.wab wrote:Oh. I’m sorry, I thought we were in a thread talking about Pace’s missteps - Glennon being the biggest. As noted in the blog piece.Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:Let. It. Go.wab wrote:I only have one gripe with Pace, and it’s Mike Glennon. Even though I understand all the angles of why he did it, I fucking hate Mike Glennon.
Glennon is gone.
What a mistake I’ve made.