Moderator: wab
Have to say that I am extremely excited to see more of him this year!"I feel like if I could kick the football, he'd also want me to kick the football, too," Cohen quipped. "It just goes to show how many places he has me at. I've been everywhere. I've been at every position. It's crazy."
I'm not dubious about it at all. If you're defending and there's a guy on the other side who can run right by you, that demands special attention. We saw it last year with Cohen getting taken away later in the year. Now you throw out a second guy who can fly and either you're going to back your safeties way off to stop the home run threats--which expands the open space for everything short and intermediate, or you jam those guys and roll the dice that you don't get burnt deep. Not a pleasant situation to defend.Moriarty wrote:It's definitely something to watch.
I'm really dubious about how effective sets with Cohen and Gabriel can be. Interested to see how that plays out.
He likely won't be a superstar at any one given thing -- but rather "good" and a big play threat in multiple different facets. Which is a very valuable commodity.skamanfrank wrote:Of course, the flip side to all this positivity could be that he doesn't actually fit in anywhere.... He seems like such a talented and athletic guy I'd be surprised if that's the case though?
agreed. this is all about getting the D to open up. Both of them on the field at the same time is just going to force a little more respect for the deep ball. Add to that the fact that neither of them are just speed guys (this is NOT Bernard Barrian here) either one of these two can run a wide receiver screen with the best of them (look up highlights of Gabriel's screens in their 2016 game against the Cards) and we all know what kind of moves Cohen has. AND you have Howard, Allen Rob, Burton, or maybe Mitch deciding to keep it...Mikefive wrote:I'm not dubious about it at all. If you're defending and there's a guy on the other side who can run right by you, that demands special attention. We saw it last year with Cohen getting taken away later in the year. Now you throw out a second guy who can fly and either you're going to back your safeties way off to stop the home run threats--which expands the open space for everything short and intermediate, or you jam those guys and roll the dice that you don't get burnt deep. Not a pleasant situation to defend.Moriarty wrote:It's definitely something to watch.
I'm really dubious about how effective sets with Cohen and Gabriel can be. Interested to see how that plays out.
Name one that didn't?Moriarty wrote:After you guys drain your glasses, what offenses can you name that regularly, successfully made use of a double smurf formation?
Just pointing out that while Burton isn't an in-line TE, he is definitely a major plus blocker on the outside compared to a normal WR. Having Burton and Robinson in the slot will also be advantageous for Howard in the run game.Atkins&Rebel wrote:You have Cohen and Gabriel on the outside, Burton at TE and Robinson in the slot, how do you defend that? Then you throw in the running threat of Howard from the passing set...defenses are going to go nuts. Then you hurry on 2 TE's and bring off the speedsters, and are we running or passing? The CB's just had to run their butts off trying to keep up with the little speedsters, now the big guys are coming in and are going to run them over.
Why don't we start by naming those who have tried it...Moriarty wrote:After you guys drain your glasses, what offenses can you name that regularly, successfully made use of a double smurf formation?
I’m right there with you. To add, I really like Cohen as a wrinkle, he can score anytime, he really has the heart to be a good player, his motor is high and he’s good for the team but I’m not really buying into the hype that he’s going to be a week in and week out game changer. What I am excited for is how the scheme will disguise him, we all knew where the ball was going when he was on the field last year.mmmc_35 wrote:I am a tad concerned with this everyone has special roles thing. It can work, especially if done correct, but when you have several players like that will it?
Not just about scoring...give me the break down of first downs (or even 4.0 average on his 140 offensive touches) vs. negative plays.Funkster wrote:He does have big play abilities, but he will have to be used properly not just a gimmick. IMO, this will be the intriguing part and maybe why they’re moving him all over, to see where he fits the best. Last season with 87 rushing attempts, 53 reception, 26 KO returns and 29 punt returns (195 total touches) he scored 4 times or once ever 49 touches or basically 2 points per game on average. The Bears will need more production out of him this season to justify keeping him on the field. He’s such a fun player to watch, I can’t wait for this season.
I totally agree. I don’t want to sound like I don’t like the kid because I really do. I’m just saying we keep talking about (I’m guilty too) how he can score whenever he touches the ball and that isn’t really th case. He will be good in this offense if he can get to green which I believe Nagy’s system will allow. I’m also saying there are only so many offensive snaps and his opportunities may go down this season with all the new skilled players and Howard.Atkins&Rebel wrote:Not just about scoring...give me the break down of first downs (or even 4.0 average on his 140 offensive touches) vs. negative plays.Funkster wrote:He does have big play abilities, but he will have to be used properly not just a gimmick. IMO, this will be the intriguing part and maybe why they’re moving him all over, to see where he fits the best. Last season with 87 rushing attempts, 53 reception, 26 KO returns and 29 punt returns (195 total touches) he scored 4 times or once ever 49 touches or basically 2 points per game on average. The Bears will need more production out of him this season to justify keeping him on the field. He’s such a fun player to watch, I can’t wait for this season.
Nor do I think he would be. I'm pretty certain Cunningham would shoulder the 1st/2nd down load.BlueAndOrangeDog wrote:Another benefit is that despite his size, he doesn't get injured, even popping up emphitcaly after a tough hit.
However, I would not like to see him as the primary back if Howard were to go down.
Moriarty wrote:After you guys drain your glasses, what offenses can you name that regularly, successfully made use of a double smurf formation?
Not that this affects my perspective on this discussion, but my oldest son was born about 4 hours after Denver drafted Ricky Nattiel. I lived in Denver at the time and my wife told me it was time to go to the hospital as Denver was on the clock on 4/28/87.Otis Day wrote:The Three Amigos from the Broncos: Vance Johnson, Ricky Nattiel and Mark Jackson. Mid to late 1980s with Elway.
Where's the 'like' button?UOK wrote:Skill recognizes skill.
Of course. Receivers are tall, guards are fat and LB's are 245 lbs. I think that there is an 'ideal size' stigma for every position, and we doubt the players that don't fit that mold. Aaron Donald is another great example. You're not supposed to be 6' 280, and be able to do what he does. But he does.southdakbearfan wrote:This conversation brings up another thought. Are we, and a large percentage of the NFL, guilty of overlooking good to great football players because they don't fit a certain mold?
Barry was a shrimp, Steve Smith was a shrimp, the best WR in the NFL right now is 5'10" if you stretch him.
My point would be, if you can play football well, who gives a crap what the height is?
Absolutely. The problem is that we'll never know the extent of it because how many people could've been great but because they were too much this or too little that they never saw enough of the field to develop.southdakbearfan wrote:This conversation brings up another thought. Are we, and a large percentage of the NFL, guilty of overlooking good to great football players because they don't fit a certain mold?
Barry was a shrimp, Steve Smith was a shrimp, the best WR in the NFL right now is 5'10" if you stretch him.
My point would be, if you can play football well, who gives a crap what the height is?
I'm a Gators fanatic, have been since I was a little kid. The problem with Tebow was two things, maddening inconsistencies and a ravenous fanbase.The Marshall Plan wrote:Absolutely. The problem is that we'll never know the extent of it because how many people could've been great but because they were too much this or too little that they never saw enough of the field to develop.southdakbearfan wrote:This conversation brings up another thought. Are we, and a large percentage of the NFL, guilty of overlooking good to great football players because they don't fit a certain mold?
Barry was a shrimp, Steve Smith was a shrimp, the best WR in the NFL right now is 5'10" if you stretch him.
My point would be, if you can play football well, who gives a crap what the height is?
This is not intended as a political comment, but I feel that Tim Tebow was criticized way too much as a football player for the reality of the situation.
He was a Florida Player Of The Year in high school.
He had an excellent college career including a Heisman.
In 2011, his second year in the league, he had twice as many TDs as INTs on an 8-8 Broncos team including a playoff victory against the Steelers.
But his throwing motion and mechanics didn't fit the prototypical style. If that was the posture in baseball we'd never have the sidearmer, submariner or knuckleballer.
Why not develop the guy when he's shown a natural ability to win? Get a QB coach to help him out. Who knows how many WRs, RBs, LBs, DLs, etc etc etc would've turned out great had it not been for development?
