Should Bates take over for Tice?

[mbrs!]

Now that was a gameplan by a seasoned OC, and a certified QB guru ... talking Harbaugh here, not Tice.

It might be time for Jeremy Bates to take over. He's apprenticed with Shanahan, so he knows how to build a gameplan, and the art of calling plays. He's also implemented a tried and true offense ... the same one the Texans and the Redskins use. The Bears don't run a stretch zone much, though, so it won't get as much movement from the defense on play-action.

The experiment of playing the OL out of their natural positions hasn't turned out well, but there might not be anything the Bears can do about it this season. Chris Williams is probably chuckling right now.

Initially, I was skeptical on Tice becoming an OC, as he didn't go through the usual WRs-QBs coach progression, but I bought into the logic of what he wanted to accomplish. Theory and practice are 2 different things, though, and we've seen the difference between a well coached offense and an unprepared offense.

Hindsight is cheating, but if Lovie searched for OC options instead of handing over the job to Tice, he might have had a chance to get Bruce Arians.

[Hiphopopotamos]

Is Jeremy Bates going to get to work with a different OL than Tice? If not, then it won't matter. Yes, Harbaugh had a nice gameplan (the fawning by Gruden was, as always, nauseating). Harbaugh also has a very nice offensive line that can and did push our defense around. This gave SF the freedom to do a hell of a lot more than we're capable of. We can't pass block, and we can't run block.

Until we can find five guys that can block - we're going to remain dependent on Jay Cutlers incredible ability to stay upright and find wr's.

Jason Campbell showed us what happens when a QB not named Cutler is put behind this line. I guess all those years behind that crap Vanderbilt line was good practice for Jay.

[mbrs!]

Fair point, but what's troubling to me is, even after Webb and Carimi were getting beaten easily, time and time again, Tice still kept calling 5 man protections.

[wab]

The only problem with Bates taking over is the running game. Bates already has a lot of input on the passing game, moving the pocket, stuff he did in Denver. But he's a zone blocking guy, and you can't just change that mid season. Plus the LT, LG, and RT are maulers (Tice's M.O.) and don't have the feet or athleticism to pull of Zone blocking.

[Hiphopopotamos]

Fair point, but what's troubling to me is, even after Webb and Carimi were getting beaten easily, time and time again, Tice still kept calling 5 man protections.

You can't max protect every down when the other team is up 3 scores on you. At some point you have to believe that the 5 men on the OL are going to do their job. Tice had plenty of help for the OL, RB's chipped, TE's stayed in - but the fact of the matter is that the OL offered no resistance to SF's DL.

Bill Walsh wouldn't have been able to game-plan around the abomination that was our OL last night.


The last play was a perfect microcosm of our OL play. Three rushers against 5 lineman and they get to Campbell before he eve completes his drop. Ridiculous.

[DaDitka]

The last play was a perfect microcosm of our OL play. Three rushers against 5 lineman and they get to Campbell before he eve completes his drop. Ridiculous.

Exactly.

But for some reason this fan base is almost programmed to blame the coaches instead of actually holding professional athletes accountable for their performance.

You want 'great' coaching....ask Joe Gibbs, Jimmie Johnson, Bill Parcels and Mike Shanahan what was the 'secret' to their great teams...it was the O-line.

Why was Gibbs able to win Superbowls with three different QBs and one with a no name rookie RB that was never heard from again.

Why was Jimmy so successful in Dallas and not so much in Miami.

Why has Shanahan struggled in Washington.

How did Parcels win a Superbowl with Jeff Hostetler?

We can keep firing OCs, looking for TEs, and complaining about our WRs.....but none of that will ever change until we change the personnel on the O-line.

Look...we bitch and bitch about not having a #1 WR and then we get one and bitch that they are trowing to him too much. Why? Because the line sucks. Jay doesn't have time to go through his progressions and we have to keep too many bodies in to block.

It all......ALL....comes down to the 5 men on the O-line.

[mbrs!]

Fair point, but what's troubling to me is, even after Webb and Carimi were getting beaten easily, time and time again, Tice still kept calling 5 man protections.

You can't max protect every down when the other team is up 3 scores on you. At some point you have to believe that the 5 men on the OL are going to do their job. Tice had plenty of help for the OL, RB's chipped, TE's stayed in - but the fact of the matter is that the OL offered no resistance to SF's DL.

Bill Walsh wouldn't have been able to game-plan around the abomination that was our OL last night.


The last play was a perfect microcosm of our OL play. Three rushers against 5 lineman and they get to Campbell before he eve completes his drop. Ridiculous.

On the contrary, if both your tackles have continued to get beat time and time again, they aren't miraculously going to get better. If you can't replace them with better options, than you have to provide help blocking.

Gruden commented that neither Campbell, nor any other Chicago QB, should take this kind of beating. Tice should protect the QB first.

Bill Walsh would never have allowed this type of OL play in his team, but he would know how to make adjustments. His WCO was an adjustment to protect his QB and to have higher percentage of pass plays succeeding.

[mbrs!]

The last play was a perfect microcosm of our OL play. Three rushers against 5 lineman and they get to Campbell before he eve completes his drop. Ridiculous.

Exactly.

But for some reason this fan base is almost programmed to blame the coaches instead of actually holding professional athletes accountable for their performance.

You want 'great' coaching....ask Joe Gibbs, Jimmie Johnson, Bill Parcels and Mike Shanahan what was the 'secret' to their great teams...it was the O-line.

Why was Gibbs able to win Superbowls with three different QBs and one with a no name rookie RB that was never heard from again.

Why was Jimmy so successful in Dallas and not so much in Miami.

Why has Shanahan struggled in Washington.

How did Parcels win a Superbowl with Jeff Hostetler?

We can keep firing OCs, looking for TEs, and complaining about our WRs.....but none of that will ever change until we change the personnel on the O-line.

Look...we bitch and bitch about not having a #1 WR and then we get one and bitch that they are trowing to him too much. Why? Because the line sucks. Jay doesn't have time to go through his progressions and we have to keep too many bodies in to block.

It all......ALL....comes down to the 5 men on the O-line.

There's a flaw in your logic.

Sure, the OL has shown itself to be a weakness, but during a game, it's up to the OC to call the plays to manage that weakness, not put them in bigger trouble than they already were in.

In this game, it was obvious that Webb and Carimi simply could not block one on one. Calling plays where only 5 are left to pass block, at this point, is not making the right adjustments.

Furthermore, in preparation for this game, they could have installed a lot of quick passing, 1st read, short plays from shotgun that are becoming very common in the NFL. I've seen Locker do it, and we've also seen Kaepernick do it. It's very young QB friendly, in that it limits the amount of decisions they have to make in a short time. The Bears didn't have any of these plays, despite knowing what they had at OL, and knowing what the 49ers had in their DL.

Shanahan? Post Elway, and pre-2008, the Broncos did not have a good, pass protecting OL. They went around it with motion, using zone blocking, bootlegs and roll-outs. It effectively limited half the field, but it protected the QB, and allowed him to throw the ball away at any time.

The Texans don't have great pass protectors, but they use the same scheme to protect Schaub.

In most games besides this one and the Packers game, I didn't have much problem with the playcalling, although I think Tice was too focussed on trying to keep the run-pass ratio good. This game was an opportunity for Tice to make the proper adjustments, protection wise, but he failed to do it.

[wab]

When Tice is calling ONE MAN routes to keep literally 9 other guys back to protect the QB, what the hell else is he supposed to do?

The tackles can't...CAN NOT pass protect. Chilo Rachal is so f'kn lost half the time that they can't...CAN NOT run behind him. Garza and Louis are so busy trying to make up for the mistakes made by the guys on their left/right that they end up blowing their assignments.

When you have a line that is THIS dysfunctional, your hands are absolutely tied as a play caller.

You don't need to have 5 all-pro's across the line. You need one good tackle, one good guard, and a center that can make the line calls.

[mbrs!]

The only problem with Bates taking over is the running game. Bates already has a lot of input on the passing game, moving the pocket, stuff he did in Denver. But he's a zone blocking guy, and you can't just change that mid season. Plus the LT, LG, and RT are maulers (Tice's M.O.) and don't have the feet or athleticism to pull of Zone blocking.

I agree, no way can the Bears suddenly go from Tice's inside-zone to the more lateral zone stretch. Maybe if we still had Chris Williams .... kidding.

The thing is, teams aren't freezing at the Bears' play action. It might be due to defenders not needing to committ laterally, the way they would on lateral runs.

The Bears can somewhat mimick the effect of zone blocking the way they did last season, when they used Chris Williams as a pulling guard to attack the right side. Right now, the Bears just keep using the same delayed hand off.

There's an art to playcalling and getting an offense in rhythm, and I don't think Tice has mastered that yet. I'm thinking a lot of it is about knowing the plays like the back of your hand, and not just choosing plays in a play call sheet.

That run of plays to start the game by the 49ers seemed like they were scripted properly to force the defense to adjust.

The Bears play calls seem disjointed.

[mbrs!]

When Tice is calling ONE MAN routes to keep literally 9 other guys back to protect the QB, what the hell else is he supposed to do?

The tackles can't...CAN NOT pass protect. Chilo Rachal is so f'kn lost half the time that they can't...CAN NOT run behind him. Garza and Louis are so busy trying to make up for the mistakes made by the guys on their left/right that they end up blowing their assignments.

When you have a line that is THIS dysfunctional, your hands are absolutely tied as a play caller.

You don't need to have 5 all-pro's across the line. You need one good tackle, one good guard, and a center that can make the line calls.

I agree, but when Webb and Carimi keep getting beaten so easily, you can't call plays that end up with only the 5 linemen protecting Campbell, and that happened a lot during the game. For this OL against their DL, at least 2 to 3 extra blockers every play. That gives at least 2 to 3 targets, and if one of the blockers is a RB or FB, he can release late as a safety valve.

[Hiphopopotamos]

When Tice is calling ONE MAN routes to keep literally 9 other guys back to protect the QB, what the hell else is he supposed to do?

The tackles can't...CAN NOT pass protect. Chilo Rachal is so f'kn lost half the time that they can't...CAN NOT run behind him. Garza and Louis are so busy trying to make up for the mistakes made by the guys on their left/right that they end up blowing their assignments.

When you have a line that is THIS dysfunctional, your hands are absolutely tied as a play caller.

You don't need to have 5 all-pro's across the line. You need one good tackle, one good guard, and a center that can make the line calls.

I agree, but when Webb and Carimi keep getting beaten so easily, you can't call plays that end up with only the 5 linemen protecting Campbell, and that happened a lot during the game. For this OL against their DL, at least 2 to 3 extra blockers every play. That gives at least 2 to 3 targets, and if one of the blockers is a RB or FB, he can release late as a safety valve.

5 OL + 1 QB + 2 blockers leaves three people out on a route. Against 7 defenders. It doesn't matter how many extra you keep in if the OL offers no resistance. Gabe Carimi was literally not even getting a hand on DL rushing right past him. It doesn't matter if you keep two backs in to block if the DL is rushing unopposed into them. The pocket is collapsed and Campbell is done for.

Sending three receivers out means you need more time for routes to develop or for receivers to work open - even with max protect we had no time.

There was literally nothing Tice could have done to gameplan around the way the OL played last night.

[mbrs!]

I agree, but when Webb and Carimi keep getting beaten so easily, you can't call plays that end up with only the 5 linemen protecting Campbell, and that happened a lot during the game. For this OL against their DL, at least 2 to 3 extra blockers every play. That gives at least 2 to 3 targets, and if one of the blockers is a RB or FB, he can release late as a safety valve.

5 OL + 1 QB + 2 blockers leaves three people out on a route. Against 7 defenders. It doesn't matter how many extra you keep in if the OL offers no resistance. Gabe Carimi was literally not even getting a hand on DL rushing right past him. It doesn't matter if you keep two backs in to block if the DL is rushing unopposed into them. The pocket is collapsed and Campbell is done for.

Sending three receivers out means you need more time for routes to develop or for receivers to work open - even with max protect we had no time.

There was literally nothing Tice could have done to gameplan around the way the OL played last night.

Not necessarily. There are ways to free up targets quickly ... bunch formations, (legal) picks.

The extra blockers (TE) and even the RB can release, as long as they are confident enough that the pass protection would be adequate.

I'm not saying that the Bears had a chance to win this game; I'm saying that a more seasoned OC would be able to try in-game adjustments faster, because they know their pass plays like the backs of their hands. A more seasoned OC probably would've gameplanned better for the DL of the 49ers.

[G08]

I'd like to see Mike Tice demoted and told to focus 100% on HIS terrible offensive line and let Jeremy Bates call plays. I'm sure he understands how to call runs that are not zone-based.

[Funkster]

You can't max protect every down when the other team is up 3 scores on you. At some point you have to believe that the 5 men on the OL are going to do their job. Tice had plenty of help for the OL, RB's chipped, TE's stayed in - but the fact of the matter is that the OL offered no resistance to SF's DL.

Bill Walsh wouldn't have been able to game-plan around the abomination that was our OL last night.


The last play was a perfect microcosm of our OL play. Three rushers against 5 lineman and they get to Campbell before he eve completes his drop. Ridiculous.

On the contrary, if both your tackles have continued to get beat time and time again, they aren't miraculously going to get better. If you can't replace them with better options, than you have to provide help blocking.

Gruden commented that neither Campbell, nor any other Chicago QB, should take this kind of beating. Tice should protect the QB first.

Bill Walsh would never have allowed this type of OL play in his team, but he would know how to make adjustments. His WCO was an adjustment to protect his QB and to have higher percentage of pass plays succeeding.

I Agree 100% with this statement.


To have any chance of making the playoffs from here on out, something has to change. I cannot watch another season of 7 plus wins to the halfway point just to loose out and miss the playoffs. If the change is giving Bates a shot, I am all for it.

This team needs a statement from Emery that he is not going to let that happen. Nobody should be safe this week.

[mbrs!]

The other thing troubling me with Tice is that he looks at how a player build-wise looks, and he ties it to what position he could potentially dominate at ... if Webb had decent ability, his physical size could make him a dominant LT; Kellen Davis has the size to be a dominant TE. He falls in love with projects.

Take that old Chiefs center who later played for the Broncos for a year or two, Casey Wiegmann. He isnt bigger, stronger, or faster than anyone, but he did actually know how to play the position, and his ran his OLs at a high level.

Tice has assembled an OL with some big bodies, yet they can't pass protect, they can't execute screens, and their run blocking ability is limited. Many times, they don't even move as a unit. They may look the part, but they can't play the part.

Part of an OC's job is to evaluate the actual talent and ability, and not just try to build up projects into supermen. Webb, Carimi, and Davis shouldn't be starters, while Hester shouldn't be thought of as a weapon, until he actually is a weapon.

[G08]

Casey Wiegmann, former Bear as well!

[LandStander]

What killed me was the back side blocking on our run plays, meaning where was it? That boils down to execution. Our oline cannot execute period. They are lost, they don't know their assignments, there for we can't run the ball. I get so pissed when a hole opens up for Forte but he gets tackled from behind at the LOS. It boils down to the oline and coaching. Our oline is terrible but if they could do the basic things we might of had a chance. You see Garza trying to be that leader on the line, pointing out schemes and on the bench he talks to the guys but it doesn't get through their skulls.

[Bad Flanders]

SanFran's line has had some VERY crappy games against good pass rushers this year too, the difference is that they've learned and tried new things to keep the defense on it's heals, which was obvious last night.

To all you out there saying it's not the coaches fault, honestly answer this question (be honest for real), you take the Bears offense and the Niners offense and switch them so that all those players are being coached by the other O-Coord. Are you telling me that you seriously think that the Niners O has that kind of success with Tice coaching them? And that the Bears O still has ALL these problems (remember that the Niners line has been pretty questionable this year also!) with that game plan? Because you are kidding yourselves if you believe that.

The Bears were outcoached last night on both sides of the ball, now I'm not bashing on Lovie or the D here, they have done their job very consistently this year and it wasn't their night. But the O hasn't done their job, they haven't gotten it done all year, they haven't gotten it done consistently for more than a quarter here and there. One (maybe two) games is a players fault (fool me once type of deal) but more than that is on the coach.

[wab]

I'd like to see Mike Tice demoted and told to focus 100% on HIS terrible offensive line and let Jeremy Bates call plays. I'm sure he understands how to call runs that are not zone-based.

I gotta disagree pal. It didn't work too well out in Seattle where Carroll asked him to do just that because he didn't have the linemen to execute the stretch zone scheme he ran in Denver/USC.

[G08]

I'm not necessarily looking for a scheme overhaul; I think he can still call the run plays that we have installed since training camp.

[DaDitka]

I'd like to see Mike Tice demoted and told to focus 100% on HIS terrible offensive line and let Jeremy Bates call plays. I'm sure he understands how to call runs that are not zone-based.

I gotta disagree pal. It didn't work too well out in Seattle where Carroll asked him to do just that because he didn't have the linemen to execute the stretch zone scheme he ran in Denver/USC.

Yeah, everyone is quick to forget how horrible things went in Seattle....let's just say the Carroll and Bates won't be exchanging Christmas cards any time soon.

[mbrs!]

I gotta disagree pal. It didn't work too well out in Seattle where Carroll asked him to do just that because he didn't have the linemen to execute the stretch zone scheme he ran in Denver/USC.

Yeah, everyone is quick to forget how horrible things went in Seattle....let's just say the Carroll and Bates won't be exchanging Christmas cards any time soon.

Actually, he did quite well in his only year in Seattle in 2010. His offense outscored the Bears in their 1st meeting (coupled with a great defensive plan by Caroll), then in the playoffs, his offense scored 41 points to knock out the defending Super Bowl champion Saints, before eventually losing to the Bears.

He was let go, because of a "difference in philosophy", as in Hasselbeck didn't see eye to eye with him on the offense. I've read an article before the Bears hired him with Caroll saying nice things about him.

[mbrs!]

SanFran's line has had some VERY crappy games against good pass rushers this year too, the difference is that they've learned and tried new things to keep the defense on it's heals, which was obvious last night.

To all you out there saying it's not the coaches fault, honestly answer this question (be honest for real), you take the Bears offense and the Niners offense and switch them so that all those players are being coached by the other O-Coord. Are you telling me that you seriously think that the Niners O has that kind of success with Tice coaching them? And that the Bears O still has ALL these problems (remember that the Niners line has been pretty questionable this year also!) with that game plan? Because you are kidding yourselves if you believe that.

The Bears were outcoached last night on both sides of the ball, now I'm not bashing on Lovie or the D here, they have done their job very consistently this year and it wasn't their night. But the O hasn't done their job, they haven't gotten it done all year, they haven't gotten it done consistently for more than a quarter here and there. One (maybe two) games is a players fault (fool me once type of deal) but more than that is on the coach.

I do agree with you about the coaching; that OL executed a ton of different pass and run blocks for such varied plays, that got the defense reeling, and kept Kaepernick untouched. Marinelli prepared the Bears for a running QB, and Harbaugh used quick, safe, one read pass plays to turn an inexperienced Kaepernick into Steve Young. His gameplan utterlyu confused and bullied the defense.

Their LT, RT, and LG, though, are all 49er 1st round picks, and they worked out. I believe Staley handled Peppers really well, one on one. The OL and offensive coaching by the 49ers is superior, but the talent for the 49ers is there ... mostly from being really bad for consecutive years. They've invested heavily in the OL, and their picks hit. Harbaugh also doesn't start projects who shouldn't start in the NFL.

[chet8503]

Tice talks tough but he produces very little . However as much as I am begining to hate Tice both as an offensive coordinator and as a line coach , we could have had all the brilliant offfensive minds in the history of the game such as Paul Brown ,Tom Landry , Don Shula , Bill Walsh , Sid Gillman ,Don Coryell , and Mike Shanahan coaching us on offense , and it would have made little difference with the blocking we had on Monday night !

[Bad Flanders]

That's where your wrong, if we had a good coach the blocking WOULD have been BETTER! That's what good coaches do. That's the point. It's the chicken or the egg argument and we could do this until our faces are blue but there is one truth here, a good player can make a poor coach look better and a good coach can make a poor player look better. Right now it's obvious that the line has some poor players and the this coach ain't making them look better, there are times where they've started to look okay but this is THREE years into Tice being here, it's too damn long and his excuses are over.

We all know that his ego lost this team a pretty good guard in Williams that they just cut for no damn reason. His pet projects blow, one of which is a first round pick just like the Niners line has (which is apparently why they are better than us?!?!) who TICE insisted on picking.

He's got probowl receivers, he's got a probowl running back, he's got a probowl qb and center combo, he's got HIS first round pick at RT, he's got three years in that line and it's his O now for over half a season (meaning he can't blame anything on the previous guys). And he can't do jack with that!?!?! But it the players faults!?!?!

The other guys didn't just win, they beat the crap out of a number 1 defense with a rookie qb, a washed up receiving corps, a line full of (yes number one picks but) sporadic players at best, and a great running game. Well, this defense just took on the best running game in the Texans and pretty much stopped them, so what did a good coach do? He actually used a passing game, a complicated one and dismantled the Bears d with that rook qb.

My whole point is that if you think Tice could've done that to the Bears if he were running that O in SanFran then you are kidding yourself, and if you are willing to admit that he couldn't have done that then why the HELL are you defending him? He's not good enough and he IS the weak link. The guys running the show in SanFran are not the only one who can do what they are doing, we need to find guys like that to run this O.

Do I want Tice fired, last week I would've said no, just for him to wake up, now I would say yes, I don't think it can get worse than this, there is still a window with this D for this year and they should make drastic changes to make sure this gets even a little better now. I don't know that Bates is the right the guy but they should try him out just for giggle at this point to see how it works.

[DaDitka]

He was let go, because of a "difference in philosophy", as in Hasselbeck didn't see eye to eye with him on the offense. I've read an article before the Bears hired him with Caroll saying nice things about him.

Yes.....Caroll is a nice guy...

But he stripped Bates of play calling halfway through the season and and Jeremy even quit the team for a day and didn't show up. The way Kirwin tells it, Jeremy realized he'd never get another gig if he walked out and Pete agreed to let him come back to the team and stay on the staff for the rest of the year.

Since Kirwin and Caroll are best friends I hear way too much shit about the SeaHags.

Hell Pete even offered the (GM) job to Pat when he took over but Pat wanted to be home.

[greenl]

Remember the episode of The Simpsons when Homer goes to visit a Financial Planner. Her advice was as follows: "Mr. Simpson- you need more money." In a similar vein, the Bears need more talent. Their offense is a tight end, and three bodies on the o-line away from being good. We can hang Tice and Martz and Bates and whomever else takes his turn running this offense. But to expect better results without upgrading the talent is lunacy. Replace the o-coordinator- expect different results- isn't that the definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over again.

[IE]

Remember the episode of The Simpsons when Homer goes to visit a Financial Planner. Her advice was as follows: "Mr. Simpson- you need more money." In a similar vein, the Bears need more talent. Their offense is a tight end, and three bodies on the o-line away from being good. We can hang Tice and Martz and Bates and whomever else takes his turn running this offense. But to expect better results without upgrading the talent is lunacy. Replace the o-coordinator- expect different results- isn't that the definition of insanity- doing the same thing over and over again.

I think a key point is that the Oline is what it is largely because of the OC. He was an experienced, reasonably proved guy - and that's why he was hired (to evaluate & coach up the Oline). IF he had said different things to Emery during the offseason about the talent he had evaluated ... don't you think we'd be seeing different guys out there? And is it not true that the Oline was blocking better at the end of last season with guys that could have been there now this entire season (for continuity?) ... Webb, CW, Garza, Spencer, Louis.

Tice has failed conspicuously, and not only that - he has overseen regression after showing some progress, through his own meddling. So he deserves the criticism. The guys are playing where they are because Tice put them there. Chris Williams is gone because Tice wanted him gone.

[mbrs!]

He was let go, because of a "difference in philosophy", as in Hasselbeck didn't see eye to eye with him on the offense. I've read an article before the Bears hired him with Caroll saying nice things about him.

Yes.....Caroll is a nice guy...

But he stripped Bates of play calling halfway through the season and and Jeremy even quit the team for a day and didn't show up. The way Kirwin tells it, Jeremy realized he'd never get another gig if he walked out and Pete agreed to let him come back to the team and stay on the staff for the rest of the year.

Since Kirwin and Caroll are best friends I hear way too much shit about the SeaHags.

Hell Pete even offered the (GM) job to Pat when he took over but Pat wanted to be home.

I didn't hear about that, but those are good points.

I still think Bates is a better choice than Tice, as he is far more seasoned as a playcaller, and is far more knowledgeable in the intricacies of the passing game.

I also agree with Boris, IE and BadFlanders about Tice's influence on the OL roster. He evaluated the players he had, and told JA he was good with them in 2010. In 2011, he most likely gave input on the acquisition of Carimi. In 2012, he could have stressed the need for OL to Emery, as Emery does work with the coaches in his player acquisition process, but the message he sent everyone was that Carimi will do fine at RT, and Webb has the athletic traits to be a great LT, and all he needed was coaching.

It's Tice who vouched for Webb, Carimi, and Davis; it's Tice who had a negative bias against Chris Williams; and it's Tice who jumbled all the OL players into spots they've never really played, and expected them to perform there like it was 2nd nature.

Part of an OC's job is talent evaluation, to see who starts and sits, and what part of the offense they execute. Since he put Webb and Carimi as the starters along the OL, it's up to him as an OC to make sure the offense is able to execute, whether through choice of plays or blocking schemes, knowing what he knows about their limitations.

In this case, he failed terribly as an OC in the Packers and 49ers games. When you wear the OC hat, it's up to you to make it work with whatever you have, no excuses.