I think it will be ok. It is to make them shoulder tackle vs use the helmet as a weapon tackle.
It's both a CYA by the league and a future of the game issue.
NFL Institutes Very Strict Rule on Lowering of Helmet
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I don't think those are comparable situations. In combat sports, and presumably military situations, there's more opportunity for surprise. I can't think of a situation in football where you'd flinch into this defensive post? Or at least it'd be rare enough that it won't be a problem. I mean, if an offensive player flinches and lowers their head before getting creamed, I don't see them getting penalised or ejected. I hope.mmmc_35 wrote:What sucks about this rule is it takes natural reaction and penalizes it.
Even with a helmet off your natural reaction is to tuck your chin and slump your shoulders forward when expecting to be hit. Its a self defense mechanism to protect your brain and neck.
Boxers tuck their chin. A study in combat showed on patrol when enemy fire hit close, soldiers tucked there chins, pushed shoulders forward, bent knees, pushed hands out.
Its kind of built into our DNA. Helmets are the actual problem.
Overall it is down to the coaches. I hate tackles with a lowered head, it's bad form, more likely to miss, and no more likely to be a big hit. Head up, arms ready, drive with the shoulder and snap them in half. You can roll your shoulder a little for a bit of extra oomph if necessary but this 35 year old thinks that's courting injury.
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Lowering your head in anticipation of receiving a hit doesn't sound like initiating contact to me. My understanding is this rule is aimed at the aggressor, not the player on the receiving end.
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Knowing the NFL, they will mess this up. It has potential to both help and hurt, depending how it is applied.
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I don't think of it as a flinch as much as a reaction. Like your about to hit a tree. Your pulling your chin in and rolling your shoulders forward. Like hot stove plus hand equals pull hand off and help.malk wrote:
I don't think those are comparable situations. In combat sports, and presumably military situations, there's more opportunity for surprise. I can't think of a situation in football where you'd flinch into this defensive post? Or at least it'd be rare enough that it won't be a problem. I mean, if an offensive player flinches and lowers their head before getting creamed, I don't see them getting penalised or ejected. I hope.
You and Malk maybe correct. But a runners reaction to a monster about to tackle him is the same in my opinion as by post before. Now is that initiating contact? I guess we will see.BearButtseks wrote:Lowering your head in anticipation of receiving a hit doesn't sound like initiating contact to me. My understanding is this rule is aimed at the aggressor, not the player on the receiving end.
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I don't think so.BearButtseks wrote:Lowering your head in anticipation of receiving a hit doesn't sound like initiating contact to me. My understanding is this rule is aimed at the aggressor, not the player on the receiving end.
The way it's written, it clearly applies to any contact initiation, both offensive players and defensive players.
http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/vi ... 07#p200007" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If a ballcarrier running forward, lowering their head before the collision occurs isn't something they intend to be called, what offensive situation would be?
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Interestingly, the gif from G08's sig is an example of where this rule would apply (to the defender, not talking offense this time).
http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/me ... ofile&u=59" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Unquestionably lowered head and initial contact with head.
15 yards, automatic first, possible ejection.
Was that hit cheap? dirty? Something that needs regulation?
No, no, and no.
http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/me ... ofile&u=59" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Unquestionably lowered head and initial contact with head.
15 yards, automatic first, possible ejection.
Was that hit cheap? dirty? Something that needs regulation?
No, no, and no.
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Moriarty wrote:I don't think so.BearButtseks wrote:Lowering your head in anticipation of receiving a hit doesn't sound like initiating contact to me. My understanding is this rule is aimed at the aggressor, not the player on the receiving end.
The way it's written, it clearly applies to any contact initiation, both offensive players and defensive players.
http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/vi ... 07#p200007" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If a ballcarrier running forward, lowering their head before the collision occurs isn't something they intend to be called, what offensive situation would be?
Yeah, I dont know how you can square this circle with short yardage dives and QB sneaks.
I am always 100% for player safety but the concern here is how the NFL, who has such a broad history of fucking these things up, is going to fuck it up.
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The way I see it is that a QB sneak is lowering the head while running forward, but it's kind of aimless (going for a gap and yardage, not trying to actually initiate contact with anyone). A RB lowering his head, bracing before impact coming at him is protecting himself. However, a RB who sees a defender and lowers his head forward into that player would be violating the rule. I think the most practical application of the rule is when you have sort of 1 on 1 situations where a guy clearly uses his head to initiate contact with another player. If they do get into the muck of trying to call things like QB sneaks, then I agree this rule will cause a lot of problems.
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While it seems that this is a subject that's been pretty well-discussed, there has been some new information about how the rule applies within the trenches as well as the open field. Considering it's a slow time of year, I'll resurrect for further discussion.
What prompted this is that PFT has been writing some really stupid shit in their articles lately:
Say farewell to the three-point stance
How much will the new helmet rule change football?
In the first one, regarding the three-point stance, I'm not sure where to begin. Anyone who has ever played offensive line should understand that the proper way to come out of a three-point stance is to immediately engage with your hands. At guard and center, I was always taught to immediately bring the hands up and get inside the shoulder pads of the defender, along with a hip thrust to bring power and move the defender. Even 20 years ago or however long it's been since I started pee-wee football (damn do I feel old now), we were always taught to keep our heads up - not slam the crown of the helmet into the defender.
The question about how much the rule changes football is a fair one, and one I am interested in finding out. I personally don't think a lot will change. However, in the article, they raise the question about the helmet rule impacting the running game to the point where the NFL becomes a glorified 7 on 7 league. Again, thinking back to my days of being a low-level football player, there were very few times I can recall helmet to helmet cracks where lineman were using the crown to initiate contact. The bad helmet-to-helmet hits I remember came on kickoffs, which I remember several times where I would "black out" for a split second after a hit.
What prompted this is that PFT has been writing some really stupid shit in their articles lately:
Say farewell to the three-point stance
How much will the new helmet rule change football?
In the first one, regarding the three-point stance, I'm not sure where to begin. Anyone who has ever played offensive line should understand that the proper way to come out of a three-point stance is to immediately engage with your hands. At guard and center, I was always taught to immediately bring the hands up and get inside the shoulder pads of the defender, along with a hip thrust to bring power and move the defender. Even 20 years ago or however long it's been since I started pee-wee football (damn do I feel old now), we were always taught to keep our heads up - not slam the crown of the helmet into the defender.
The question about how much the rule changes football is a fair one, and one I am interested in finding out. I personally don't think a lot will change. However, in the article, they raise the question about the helmet rule impacting the running game to the point where the NFL becomes a glorified 7 on 7 league. Again, thinking back to my days of being a low-level football player, there were very few times I can recall helmet to helmet cracks where lineman were using the crown to initiate contact. The bad helmet-to-helmet hits I remember came on kickoffs, which I remember several times where I would "black out" for a split second after a hit.
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Wow. You aren't one to overdramatize, but you went way WAY overboard here. When has any NFL player dropped dead on the field? We've been trending toward changing the game for safety and now you think if we don't go even further, we'll have "every year or two a few guys drop dead on the field"??? What?!? Ease off the bong there, man.UOK wrote:Let me simply say that the title of this thread pisses me off. This is not the end of anything. It's not even the beginning of the end of anything.
All this "I watched football because it was a man's game, brutal and violent and people were tough! Now society's all soft and so is this pussified league! And now, NOW they're making goddamn rules saying you can't hit each other!? Rabble rabble rabble rabble, etc."
C'mon. I get it - football used to be a lot less of a mess, and the players were far less protected than they are now, but the sport isn't dead just because there are rules in place to sculpt the game into something that won't result in players having dementia when they're 35 and killing themselves at 45. They want players to be available for the fans to enjoy on TV and in person, but not at the expense of risking their bodily functions and quality of life.
The romance of football is partially the bodily sacrifice these guys make, sure, and the brute violence and physicality is special, but I don't want the NFL to devolve into a reckless game where every year or two a few guys drop dead on the field because it's a "man's game," and a week after a player's inducted into the Hall of Fame he blows his head off in his apartment.
This is a recipe for potential disaster. And by disaster I mean the NFL may have crossed the threshhold of starting to drive fans away by changing the game in ways that make even more regular good football plays into penalties. Of course, the determining factor is how the officials actually call it.
But by the word of the rule, lowering your body to prepare for impact... which biomechanically results in the head lowering... followed by a hit where the helmet makes first contact... leading with the head is the only way to actually run effectively... against a high speed target which may be changing direction at the time of contact... should lead to many such offenses.
Since we'd all anticipate that the NFL doesn't want to turn the game into a penalty fest, this will result in the letter of the law not being followed in many cases, but then followed in others... Without opportunity for criticism since it follows the letter of the law... This could very well end up being even worse than the catch rule, where the same action gets flagged in some cases but not in others and players end up confused as to what they can and can't do, in actions which conflicts with their historical penalty free play and their body's biomechanical nature.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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This rule is going to make this year miserable.RustyTrubisky wrote:Moriarty wrote:I don't think so.BearButtseks wrote:Lowering your head in anticipation of receiving a hit doesn't sound like initiating contact to me. My understanding is this rule is aimed at the aggressor, not the player on the receiving end.
The way it's written, it clearly applies to any contact initiation, both offensive players and defensive players.
http://www.bearsfansonline.com/forum/vi ... 07#p200007" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If a ballcarrier running forward, lowering their head before the collision occurs isn't something they intend to be called, what offensive situation would be?
Yeah, I dont know how you can square this circle with short yardage dives and QB sneaks.
I am always 100% for player safety but the concern here is how the NFL, who has such a broad history of fucking these things up, is going to fuck it up.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Al Riveron is a completely useless jackass and the more he explains things the less clear things become
I am so looking forward to all of his explanations regarding how what we saw with our own eyes isn't actually what happened
I am so looking forward to all of his explanations regarding how what we saw with our own eyes isn't actually what happened
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joke also his 3 good plays (third one lesser) the offense player with complete movement stop and standing upright.
its already included in game highlights.
Patriots-Eagles
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1:20 just Unnecessary Roughness
but
7:20 Lowering the Head
in all Lowering the Head 4 times
yes its preseason but
its already included in game highlights.
Patriots-Eagles
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1:20 just Unnecessary Roughness
but
7:20 Lowering the Head
in all Lowering the Head 4 times
yes its preseason but
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Too much padding, not enough practice time and too much praise for big hits over good hits. Tinkering with the rules isn't going to do much for player safety.
Endemic use of PEDs can't help either.
Endemic use of PEDs can't help either.
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I think this is like when they over-implemented illegal contact in the pre-season a few years back after the Seahawks made the NFL look like idiots.
Once the season starts, I'm of the opinion that they will only throw the flag if it's egregious.
Once the season starts, I'm of the opinion that they will only throw the flag if it's egregious.
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I will add that I miss the fuck out of how football was played in the 80s and 90s.
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