QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

College football and the NFL Draft

Moderator: wab

Post Reply
User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

I was thinking of a different one... he went up the left sideline and I recall they were moving left to right.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
Boris13c
Hall of Famer
Posts: 15958
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
Location: The Bear Nebula
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 103 times

G08 wrote:I was thinking of a different one... he went up the left sideline and I recall they were moving left to right.

that's the unfortunate history, that there are so many of these types of plays he made against the Bears we could come up with multiple examples
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

Not to rain on the parade of all of these HOF predictione, but here is the list of QB's coming out of the air raid offense:

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Forgot

Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson (NC State)
Philip Rivers
Big Ben

Other Spread Systems

Marcus Marriota
Alex Smith
Can Newton
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

mmmc_35 wrote:Forgot

Aaron Rodgers
Drew Brees
Russell Wilson (NC State)
Philip Rivers
Big Ben

Other Spread Systems

Marcus Marriota
Alex Smith
Can Newton
I mean the specific Texas Tech air raid.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

So specifically Kliff and Lynch players. Because your list isn't compiled of only Tech guys.
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

mmmc_35 wrote:So specifically Kliff and Lynch players. Because your list isn't compiled of only Tech guys.
Pure air raid QB's
User avatar
BamaBear09
Assistant Coach
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 am

Adipost wrote:Not to rain on the parade of all of these HOF predictione, but here is the list of QB's coming out of the air raid offense:

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz should I break out the list of QBs that failed from pro style systems? I'm sure my list would be longer... hey I could also put out a list of QBs who failed that were 6'4" or maybe I could put out a list of QBs with five letter last names that have failed in the NFL since we're making lists of failed QBs that don't matter because those guys aren't Mahomes... point to the one on the list that had Mahomes's arm talent...
Last edited by BamaBear09 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

1st round QBs have an under 50% success rate. Technically picking a QB in the first is a losing proposition.
User avatar
Rusty Trombagent
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7336
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Maine!
Has thanked: 555 times
Been thanked: 967 times

or, how about this list:

jimmy clausen
brady quinn
rick mirer
Image
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

BamaBear09 wrote:
Adipost wrote:Not to rain on the parade of all of these HOF predictione, but here is the list of QB's coming out of the air raid offense:

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz should I break out the list of QBs that failed from pro style systems? I'm sure my list would be longer... hey I could also put out a list of QBs who failed that were 6'4" or maybe I could put out a list of QBs with five letter last names that have failed in the NFL since we're making lists of failed QBs that don't matter because those guys aren't Mahomes... point to the one on the list that had Mahomes's arm talent...
Has every pro style system QB failed in the NFL? Have all 6'4" QBs failed in the NFL??
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Quick look at first round picks spread vs not, bust vs not. I don't know if there is a direct correlation.

Google doc of below info

Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota Spread
Blake Bortles ?
Johnny Manziel Spread Bust
Teddy Bridgewater Spread
EJ Manuel Bust
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin III Spread ?
Ryan Tannehill Spread ?
Brandon Weeden Bust
Cam Newton Spread
Jake Locker Bust
Blaine Gabbert Spread Bust
Christian Ponder Bust
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow Spread Bust
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez Bust
Josh Freeman Bust
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
JaMarcus Russell Bust
Brady Quinn Spread Bust
Vince Young Bust
Matt Leinart Bust
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith Spread
Aaron Rodgers Spread
Jason Campbell Bust
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers Spread
Ben Roethlisberger Spread
J.P. Losman Bust
Carson Palmer
Byron Leftwich Bust
Kyle Boller Spread Bust
Rex Grossman Bust
David Carr
Joey Harrington Spread Bust
Patrick Ramsey Bust
Michael Vick
Chad Pennington
Last edited by mmmc_35 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BamaBear09
Assistant Coach
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 am

Adipost wrote:
BamaBear09 wrote:
Adipost wrote:Not to rain on the parade of all of these HOF predictione, but here is the list of QB's coming out of the air raid offense:

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts
Zzzzzzzzzzzzz should I break out the list of QBs that failed from pro style systems? I'm sure my list would be longer... hey I could also put out a list of QBs who failed that were 6'4" or maybe I could put out a list of QBs with five letter last names that have failed in the NFL since we're making lists of failed QBs that don't matter because those guys aren't Mahomes... point to the one on the list that had Mahomes's arm talent...
Has every pro style system QB failed in the NFL? Have all 6'4" QBs failed in the NFL??
Again, point to the guy on the list who has the same arm talent as Mahomes. Normally guys who have played in the system needed the system to make them better Mahomes could have played in any system, and had he started football before his junior year in high school, he would have gotten more than 3 scholarship offers. You need to dig in a bit more and watch the little things Mahomes does, he understands the QB position beyond someone who's been playing It for only 5 years.
User avatar
crueltyabc
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5119
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 7:36 pm
Location: Dallas TX
Has thanked: 79 times
Been thanked: 226 times

RustyTrombone wrote:or, how about this list:

jimmy clausen
brady quinn
rick mirer
I would like to shake your hand sir.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
xyt in the discord chats
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.
User avatar
bearsfaninaz
Head Coach
Posts: 2303
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:33 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 7 times

Adipost wrote:Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.
Why does he have to change his entire playing style? He makes quick reads. Mechanics need to be tuned yes, but what else does he need to do? Go under center more? That's easily learned
User avatar
BamaBear09
Assistant Coach
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 am

Adipost wrote:Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.
Why is he going to have to change? Please, break this down and explain why and where he actually needs to change to become an NFL QB. Give real examples and not just some vague, "cause air raid" reason. Guys who have to change completely don't get drafted into the NFL and they surely don't get projected to go in the early rounds... so please tell us with examples why he has to become a TOTALLY different QB to play in the NFL.
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

BamaBear09 wrote:
Adipost wrote:Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.
Why is he going to have to change? Please, break this down and explain why and where he actually needs to change to become an NFL QB. Give real examples and not just some vague, "cause air raid" reason. Guys who have to change completely don't get drafted into the NFL and they surely don't get projected to go in the early rounds... so please tell us with examples why he has to become a TOTALLY different QB to play in the NFL.
The only reason he is draftable is because his arm talent will intrigue a team into drafting him. Everything else is a train wreck.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Adi with little watching and hell even searching its easy to list his flaws that need fixing. Some are fixable, others can be learned. Of those some might not be. To not list them or others seems like a copout.

Simple example.

He doesn't keep weight on his plant foot. Leaving him to throw off his. This causes accuracy issues. Its been shown not to always get better see Cutler.
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

mmmc_35 wrote:Adi with little watching and hell even searching its easy to list his flaws that need fixing. Some are fixable, others can be learned. Of those some might not be. To not list them or others seems like a copout.

Simple example.

He doesn't keep weight on his plant foot. Leaving him to throw off his. This causes accuracy issues. Its been shown not to always get better see Cutler.
Im not referring to his mechanical issues. I'm talking about his play style.
User avatar
BamaBear09
Assistant Coach
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 am

Adipost wrote:
mmmc_35 wrote:Adi with little watching and hell even searching its easy to list his flaws that need fixing. Some are fixable, others can be learned. Of those some might not be. To not list them or others seems like a copout.

Simple example.

He doesn't keep weight on his plant foot. Leaving him to throw off his. This causes accuracy issues. Its been shown not to always get better see Cutler.
Im not referring to his mechanical issues. I'm talking about his play style.
But what about his play style? Because it seems you just can't get passed the fact he played in an air raid system but if you ACTUALLY took the time to watch him play rather than just parrot off that air raid QBs have all failed (again, please show me on your list of air raid QBs that ever got the draft buzz Mahomes is getting). Yes, no air raid QB before Mahomes has succeeded but he is not them.

So again, give an example of what about his play style that needs to be changed before YOU feel he could be a successful QB. These two guys can give you a full breakdown on the little things Mahomes does as a QB that will help him translate as a QB on the next level.

[video][/video]
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

It's glaringly apparent you have no idea what in the hell you are talking about.
User avatar
Adipost
MVP
Posts: 1295
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 am

"Mahomes is a weird eval as he is the most exciting quarterback to watch in the draft class, as he makes some head scratching plays, throwing the ball from angles you’d never thought would be a completion, and plays the quarterback position in an exciting and fun way to watch. Unfortunately it doesn’t translate well, and Mahomes II lacks mechanical and mental aspects of his game to be an early impact in the pros, and will likely never be a franchise quarterback. Has a chance to become a spot starter á la Case Keenum down the line, but he will need to learn how to operate inside the pocket, because if not teams will just drop 8 in coverage and contain the pocket making it easy to bring him down, which he struggled with in the pros. I like him as a developmental prospect, but there are too many flaws in his games and unhabits which makes it very unrealistic that he amounts to much outside of a possible spot starter and backup. I don't think it's realistic to think that he'll completely change his playing style as I don't see his playing style translatable to the pros."
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

And what is the source of that scouting report?
User avatar
BamaBear09
Assistant Coach
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 am

From walterfootball.com's latest mock draft

"The more I hear and read, the more I'm convinced that Mahomes will be chosen a lot earlier than expected. We've spoken to team sources who have likened him to Derek Carr, and others have made the same comparison. Mahomes is also off the charts character-wise, and he may have that "it" factor that quarterbacks need, and several recent busts (Jared Goff, Blake Bortles) don't have."
User avatar
Rusty Trombagent
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7336
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Maine!
Has thanked: 555 times
Been thanked: 967 times

PFF moved him into the first round today:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mo ... mpaign=nfl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25. Houston Texans

Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

The more our analysts watch Mahomes, the more they like what the Texas Tech product may be able to do at the next level. So much of his game is off-the-cuff, but it’s that feel for the passing game and finding open receivers that makes Mahomes intriguing for the next level. He has a strong arm capable of driving the ball down the field or making throws on the run, though he certainly has to do a better job of taking care of the football. Mahomes ranked second in the nation in both big-time throws and turnover-worthy throws, highlighting that boom-or-bust potential, but with so many questions about the future of the quarterback position in Houston, he’s worth the risk at the back end of the first round.


bear's took the first qb (trubisky). Second qb was watson to the jets at 6. mahomes third.
i kind of refuse to believe though that kyle shanahan decides to take a ILB with his first draft pick.
Image
User avatar
BamaBear09
Assistant Coach
Posts: 708
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 8:57 am

RustyTrombone wrote:PFF moved him into the first round today:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mo ... mpaign=nfl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25. Houston Texans

Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

The more our analysts watch Mahomes, the more they like what the Texas Tech product may be able to do at the next level. So much of his game is off-the-cuff, but it’s that feel for the passing game and finding open receivers that makes Mahomes intriguing for the next level. He has a strong arm capable of driving the ball down the field or making throws on the run, though he certainly has to do a better job of taking care of the football. Mahomes ranked second in the nation in both big-time throws and turnover-worthy throws, highlighting that boom-or-bust potential, but with so many questions about the future of the quarterback position in Houston, he’s worth the risk at the back end of the first round.


bear's took the first qb (trubisky). i kind of refuse to believe though that kyle shanahan decides to take a ILB with his first draft pick.
As much as I love Foster, I don't know if I love him enough to use the #2 pick on him. I wonder if this mock is assuming that the 49ers have handled the QB position via trade of FA... New HC, vet QB is opting out of contract and the FA market is thin in terms of starting QBs... if they don't trade for JG or McCarron, I just don't see how they don't go QB right there, unless they just absolutely hate all the QBs coming out.
User avatar
Atkins&Rebel
Head Coach
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:56 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 123 times

BamaBear09 wrote:
RustyTrombone wrote:PFF moved him into the first round today:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mo ... mpaign=nfl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25. Houston Texans

Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

The more our analysts watch Mahomes, the more they like what the Texas Tech product may be able to do at the next level. So much of his game is off-the-cuff, but it’s that feel for the passing game and finding open receivers that makes Mahomes intriguing for the next level. He has a strong arm capable of driving the ball down the field or making throws on the run, though he certainly has to do a better job of taking care of the football. Mahomes ranked second in the nation in both big-time throws and turnover-worthy throws, highlighting that boom-or-bust potential, but with so many questions about the future of the quarterback position in Houston, he’s worth the risk at the back end of the first round.


bear's took the first qb (trubisky). i kind of refuse to believe though that kyle shanahan decides to take a ILB with his first draft pick.
As much as I love Foster, I don't know if I love him enough to use the #2 pick on him. I wonder if this mock is assuming that the 49ers have handled the QB position via trade of FA... New HC, vet QB is opting out of contract and the FA market is thin in terms of starting QBs... if they don't trade for JG or McCarron, I just don't see how they don't go QB right there, unless they just absolutely hate all the QBs coming out.
Cutler? Would be interesting to trade Cutler to SF to swap spots with them...heck, offer the same deal to Cleveland and see if we can't get Garrett. We'd have to mortgage a bit to get back into the 1st to grab a QB, but that isn't the worst situation ever
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
User avatar
Rusty Trombagent
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7336
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Maine!
Has thanked: 555 times
Been thanked: 967 times

yeah, i guess i realize that until the FA QB market shakes out none of the qb hungry teams' individual decisions should be looked at too closely.
Image
User avatar
Rusty Trombagent
Hall of Famer
Posts: 7336
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:19 am
Location: Maine!
Has thanked: 555 times
Been thanked: 967 times

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3. :D
Image
Post Reply