QB Prospect Discussion: Patrick Mahomes II, Texas Tech

[Adipost]

Not to rain on the parade of all of these HOF predictione, but here is the list of QB's coming out of the air raid offense:

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz should I break out the list of QBs that failed from pro style systems? I'm sure my list would be longer... hey I could also put out a list of QBs who failed that were 6'4" or maybe I could put out a list of QBs with five letter last names that have failed in the NFL since we're making lists of failed QBs that don't matter because those guys aren't Mahomes... point to the one on the list that had Mahomes's arm talent...

Has every pro style system QB failed in the NFL? Have all 6'4" QBs failed in the NFL??

[mmmc_35]

Quick look at first round picks spread vs not, bust vs not. I don't know if there is a direct correlation.

Google doc of below info

Jameis Winston
Marcus Mariota Spread
Blake Bortles ?
Johnny Manziel Spread Bust
Teddy Bridgewater Spread
EJ Manuel Bust
Andrew Luck
Robert Griffin III Spread ?
Ryan Tannehill Spread ?
Brandon Weeden Bust
Cam Newton Spread
Jake Locker Bust
Blaine Gabbert Spread Bust
Christian Ponder Bust
Sam Bradford
Tim Tebow Spread Bust
Matthew Stafford
Mark Sanchez Bust
Josh Freeman Bust
Matt Ryan
Joe Flacco
JaMarcus Russell Bust
Brady Quinn Spread Bust
Vince Young Bust
Matt Leinart Bust
Jay Cutler
Alex Smith Spread
Aaron Rodgers Spread
Jason Campbell Bust
Eli Manning
Philip Rivers Spread
Ben Roethlisberger Spread
J.P. Losman Bust
Carson Palmer
Byron Leftwich Bust
Kyle Boller Spread Bust
Rex Grossman Bust
David Carr
Joey Harrington Spread Bust
Patrick Ramsey Bust
Michael Vick
Chad Pennington

[BamaBear09]

Not to rain on the parade of all of these HOF predictione, but here is the list of QB's coming out of the air raid offense:

Tim Couch
Brandon Weeden
Johnny Manziel
Kevin Kolb
Geno Smith
John Beck
Nick Foles
Josh Heupel
Kliff Kingsbury
B.J. Symons
Case Keenum
Dominique Davis
Graham Harrell
Jared Lorenzen
Jason White
Max Hall
Nate Hybl
Sonny Cumbie
Taylor Potts

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz should I break out the list of QBs that failed from pro style systems? I'm sure my list would be longer... hey I could also put out a list of QBs who failed that were 6'4" or maybe I could put out a list of QBs with five letter last names that have failed in the NFL since we're making lists of failed QBs that don't matter because those guys aren't Mahomes... point to the one on the list that had Mahomes's arm talent...

Has every pro style system QB failed in the NFL? Have all 6'4" QBs failed in the NFL??

Again, point to the guy on the list who has the same arm talent as Mahomes. Normally guys who have played in the system needed the system to make them better Mahomes could have played in any system, and had he started football before his junior year in high school, he would have gotten more than 3 scholarship offers. You need to dig in a bit more and watch the little things Mahomes does, he understands the QB position beyond someone who's been playing It for only 5 years.

[crueltyabc]

or, how about this list:

jimmy clausen
brady quinn
rick mirer

I would like to shake your hand sir.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Adipost]

Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.

[bearsfaninaz]

Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.

Why does he have to change his entire playing style? He makes quick reads. Mechanics need to be tuned yes, but what else does he need to do? Go under center more? That's easily learned

[BamaBear09]

Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.

Why is he going to have to change? Please, break this down and explain why and where he actually needs to change to become an NFL QB. Give real examples and not just some vague, "cause air raid" reason. Guys who have to change completely don't get drafted into the NFL and they surely don't get projected to go in the early rounds... so please tell us with examples why he has to become a TOTALLY different QB to play in the NFL.

[Adipost]

Mahomes is going to have to change his ENTIRE playing style to have any chance in the NFL. I guess you could hope that he somehow transforms into a totally different qb, but that's not something NFL teams can count on.

Why is he going to have to change? Please, break this down and explain why and where he actually needs to change to become an NFL QB. Give real examples and not just some vague, "cause air raid" reason. Guys who have to change completely don't get drafted into the NFL and they surely don't get projected to go in the early rounds... so please tell us with examples why he has to become a TOTALLY different QB to play in the NFL.

The only reason he is draftable is because his arm talent will intrigue a team into drafting him. Everything else is a train wreck.

[mmmc_35]

Adi with little watching and hell even searching its easy to list his flaws that need fixing. Some are fixable, others can be learned. Of those some might not be. To not list them or others seems like a copout.

Simple example.

He doesn't keep weight on his plant foot. Leaving him to throw off his. This causes accuracy issues. Its been shown not to always get better see Cutler.

[Adipost]

Adi with little watching and hell even searching its easy to list his flaws that need fixing. Some are fixable, others can be learned. Of those some might not be. To not list them or others seems like a copout.

Simple example.

He doesn't keep weight on his plant foot. Leaving him to throw off his. This causes accuracy issues. Its been shown not to always get better see Cutler.

Im not referring to his mechanical issues. I'm talking about his play style.

[BamaBear09]

Adi with little watching and hell even searching its easy to list his flaws that need fixing. Some are fixable, others can be learned. Of those some might not be. To not list them or others seems like a copout.

Simple example.

He doesn't keep weight on his plant foot. Leaving him to throw off his. This causes accuracy issues. Its been shown not to always get better see Cutler.

Im not referring to his mechanical issues. I'm talking about his play style.

But what about his play style? Because it seems you just can't get passed the fact he played in an air raid system but if you ACTUALLY took the time to watch him play rather than just parrot off that air raid QBs have all failed (again, please show me on your list of air raid QBs that ever got the draft buzz Mahomes is getting). Yes, no air raid QB before Mahomes has succeeded but he is not them.

So again, give an example of what about his play style that needs to be changed before YOU feel he could be a successful QB. These two guys can give you a full breakdown on the little things Mahomes does as a QB that will help him translate as a QB on the next level.

[video][/video]

[wab]

It's glaringly apparent you have no idea what in the hell you are talking about.

[Adipost]

"Mahomes is a weird eval as he is the most exciting quarterback to watch in the draft class, as he makes some head scratching plays, throwing the ball from angles you’d never thought would be a completion, and plays the quarterback position in an exciting and fun way to watch. Unfortunately it doesn’t translate well, and Mahomes II lacks mechanical and mental aspects of his game to be an early impact in the pros, and will likely never be a franchise quarterback. Has a chance to become a spot starter á la Case Keenum down the line, but he will need to learn how to operate inside the pocket, because if not teams will just drop 8 in coverage and contain the pocket making it easy to bring him down, which he struggled with in the pros. I like him as a developmental prospect, but there are too many flaws in his games and unhabits which makes it very unrealistic that he amounts to much outside of a possible spot starter and backup. I don't think it's realistic to think that he'll completely change his playing style as I don't see his playing style translatable to the pros."

[wab]

And what is the source of that scouting report?

[BamaBear09]

From walterfootball.com's latest mock draft

"The more I hear and read, the more I'm convinced that Mahomes will be chosen a lot earlier than expected. We've spoken to team sources who have likened him to Derek Carr, and others have made the same comparison. Mahomes is also off the charts character-wise, and he may have that "it" factor that quarterbacks need, and several recent busts (Jared Goff, Blake Bortles) don't have."

[Rusty Trombagent]

PFF moved him into the first round today:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mo ... mpaign=nfl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25. Houston Texans

Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

The more our analysts watch Mahomes, the more they like what the Texas Tech product may be able to do at the next level. So much of his game is off-the-cuff, but it’s that feel for the passing game and finding open receivers that makes Mahomes intriguing for the next level. He has a strong arm capable of driving the ball down the field or making throws on the run, though he certainly has to do a better job of taking care of the football. Mahomes ranked second in the nation in both big-time throws and turnover-worthy throws, highlighting that boom-or-bust potential, but with so many questions about the future of the quarterback position in Houston, he’s worth the risk at the back end of the first round.

bear's took the first qb (trubisky). Second qb was watson to the jets at 6. mahomes third.
i kind of refuse to believe though that kyle shanahan decides to take a ILB with his first draft pick.

[BamaBear09]

PFF moved him into the first round today:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mo ... mpaign=nfl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25. Houston Texans

Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

The more our analysts watch Mahomes, the more they like what the Texas Tech product may be able to do at the next level. So much of his game is off-the-cuff, but it’s that feel for the passing game and finding open receivers that makes Mahomes intriguing for the next level. He has a strong arm capable of driving the ball down the field or making throws on the run, though he certainly has to do a better job of taking care of the football. Mahomes ranked second in the nation in both big-time throws and turnover-worthy throws, highlighting that boom-or-bust potential, but with so many questions about the future of the quarterback position in Houston, he’s worth the risk at the back end of the first round.

bear's took the first qb (trubisky). i kind of refuse to believe though that kyle shanahan decides to take a ILB with his first draft pick.

As much as I love Foster, I don't know if I love him enough to use the #2 pick on him. I wonder if this mock is assuming that the 49ers have handled the QB position via trade of FA... New HC, vet QB is opting out of contract and the FA market is thin in terms of starting QBs... if they don't trade for JG or McCarron, I just don't see how they don't go QB right there, unless they just absolutely hate all the QBs coming out.

[Atkins&Rebel]

PFF moved him into the first round today:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-mo ... mpaign=nfl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

25. Houston Texans

Patrick Mahomes, QB, Texas Tech

The more our analysts watch Mahomes, the more they like what the Texas Tech product may be able to do at the next level. So much of his game is off-the-cuff, but it’s that feel for the passing game and finding open receivers that makes Mahomes intriguing for the next level. He has a strong arm capable of driving the ball down the field or making throws on the run, though he certainly has to do a better job of taking care of the football. Mahomes ranked second in the nation in both big-time throws and turnover-worthy throws, highlighting that boom-or-bust potential, but with so many questions about the future of the quarterback position in Houston, he’s worth the risk at the back end of the first round.

bear's took the first qb (trubisky). i kind of refuse to believe though that kyle shanahan decides to take a ILB with his first draft pick.

As much as I love Foster, I don't know if I love him enough to use the #2 pick on him. I wonder if this mock is assuming that the 49ers have handled the QB position via trade of FA... New HC, vet QB is opting out of contract and the FA market is thin in terms of starting QBs... if they don't trade for JG or McCarron, I just don't see how they don't go QB right there, unless they just absolutely hate all the QBs coming out.

Cutler? Would be interesting to trade Cutler to SF to swap spots with them...heck, offer the same deal to Cleveland and see if we can't get Garrett. We'd have to mortgage a bit to get back into the 1st to grab a QB, but that isn't the worst situation ever

[Rusty Trombagent]

yeah, i guess i realize that until the FA QB market shakes out none of the qb hungry teams' individual decisions should be looked at too closely.

[Rusty Trombagent]

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3.

[BamaBear09]

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3.

I really would not be surprised after the combine and pro days to see him rocket up boards. Once coaches get him to a white board and realize how high his football IQ is for a kid who has only been playing football for 5 years. He's pretty much a savant and you just can't teach this...

[video][/video]

[malk]

We're not getting Mahomes, it'd make me too happy.

[Adipost]

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3.

As I previously noted, Daniel Jeremiah had Carson Wentz going top 5 since January of last year.

[Adipost]

From walterfootball.com's latest mock draft

"The more I hear and read, the more I'm convinced that Mahomes will be chosen a lot earlier than expected. We've spoken to team sources who have likened him to Derek Carr, and others have made the same comparison. Mahomes is also off the charts character-wise, and he may have that "it" factor that quarterbacks need, and several recent busts (Jared Goff, Blake Bortles) don't have."

That "it factor!!! Thanks for the laugh.

[Rusty Trombagent]

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3.

As I previously noted, Daniel Jeremiah had Carson Wentz going top 5 since January of last year.

one guy!
if you're positing that the majority opinion in the months leading up to the draft wasnt "wentz played against shit competition at NDSU and people need to temper their expectations" you're rewriting history.

the consensus came around slowly.

[BamaBear09]

From walterfootball.com's latest mock draft

"The more I hear and read, the more I'm convinced that Mahomes will be chosen a lot earlier than expected. We've spoken to team sources who have likened him to Derek Carr, and others have made the same comparison. Mahomes is also off the charts character-wise, and he may have that "it" factor that quarterbacks need, and several recent busts (Jared Goff, Blake Bortles) don't have."

That "it factor!!! Thanks for the laugh.

Take it up with the writers at walterfootball.com, it was copied directly from their site... you know what the kicker is, both mocks have Mahomes going before Kizer, I'm sure that will take your laughter up another notch... and still no reference for the scouting report you posted earlier...

[Adipost]

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3.

As I previously noted, Daniel Jeremiah had Carson Wentz going top 5 since January of last year.

one guy!
if you're positing that the majority opinion in the months leading up to the draft wasnt "wentz played against shit competition at NDSU and people need to temper their expectations" you're rewriting history.

the consensus came around slowly.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bloggingtheboys.com/platform/amp/2016/2/3/10905068/todd-mcshay-2016-mock-draft-2-0-cowboys-grab-a-quarterback-carson-wentz

[Rusty Trombagent]

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3.

As I previously noted, Daniel Jeremiah had Carson Wentz going top 5 since January of last year.

one guy!
if you're positing that the majority opinion in the months leading up to the draft wasnt "wentz played against shit competition at NDSU and people need to temper their expectations" you're rewriting history.

the consensus came around slowly.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bloggingtheboys.com/platform/amp/2016/2/3/10905068/todd-mcshay-2016-mock-draft-2-0-cowboys-grab-a-quarterback-carson-wentz

hey, that cowboys article links to a todd mcshay mock (in february) that says he's coming around on wentz kid from his previous mock (before february)! kind of like how people now, in february, are comin round to this majomes kid.

sounds like you and me agree 100% good to hear!

[Adipost]

butttt, mahomes is definitely this season's carson wentz right? another month and we'll be terrified that he wont make it to #3.

As I previously noted, Daniel Jeremiah had Carson Wentz going top 5 since January of last year.

one guy!
if you're positing that the majority opinion in the months leading up to the draft wasnt "wentz played against shit competition at NDSU and people need to temper their expectations" you're rewriting history.

the consensus came around slowly.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bloggingtheboys.com/platform/amp/2016/2/3/10905068/todd-mcshay-2016-mock-draft-2-0-cowboys-grab-a-quarterback-carson-wentz

hey, that cowboys article links to a todd mcshay mock (in february) that says he's coming around on wentz kid from his previous mock (before february)! kind of like how people now, in february, are comin round to this majomes kid.

sounds like you and me agree 100% good to hear!

Pat Mahomes - QB - Red Raiders
Draft Analyst's Tony Pauline is "concerned" about Texas Tech QB Patrick Mahomes' "downfield accuracy as well as the fact that the Texas Tech offense does not translate well to the next level."
"I’m mixed on Patrick Mahomes," Pauline wrote. "I understand why people are intrigued by the Texas Tech signal caller; he’s tough as nails, plays the position with vision as well as awareness and is not afraid to challenge defenses vertically. ... Like the other top quarterbacks in this draft, the potential is there for Mahomes but there’s also a large degree of downside and risk." Mahomes is the most divisive of the top-five quarterback prospects in this class. Analysts and NFL teams both disagree about whether his skills neatly translate to the next level. Heck, the Rotoworld NFL Draft team does not agree about Mahomes' NFL value.The

[Rusty Trombagent]

yup, give em time and they'll all fall in line once they realize that he's going to get drafted in the first.