QB Prospect Discussion: Deshone Kizer, Notre Dame

[Adipost]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

[G08]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

[wab]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

As someone who has watched him his entire career, I'm not entirely sure what you are seeing. He's got great size and all the athletic ability in the world. He has a good enough arm. His mechanics are pretty good.

BUT. He's never been able to put it all together at the same time on the field. Why is that? Because he's a stubborn ass that doesn't take to coaching. He freelances too much and plays outside of the offense. He wants to take control of things and makes boneheaded mistakes as a result. He doesn't see the field well and misreads coverage badly. Those aren't traits I want in a QB at the next level.

[G08]

I'd take a flier on him in round 2 if he's there, but I think he's ticketed for Arizona.

[Adipost]

As a ND fan, I can say I was happy to see Kizer go. I'd be disappointed if I had to watch more of him.

Kizer was, in large part, responsible for the terrible season ND had.

Kizer is the only player in this draft with the talent to become a great QB.

As someone who has watched him his entire career, I'm not entirely sure what you are seeing. He's got great size and all the athletic ability in the world. He has a good enough arm. His mechanics are pretty good.

BUT. He's never been able to put it all together at the same time on the field. Why is that? Because he's a stubborn ass that doesn't take to coaching. He freelances too much and plays outside of the offense. He wants to take control of things and makes boneheaded mistakes as a result. He doesn't see the field well and misreads coverage badly. Those aren't traits I want in a QB at the next level.

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

[G08]

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

Elaborate please. I could see an argument for Trubisky's ceiling being Dalton, although I believe Trubisky has a better arm and is much more athletic.

Curious what you don't like about Watson.

[Adipost]

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

Elaborate please. I could see an argument for Trubisky's ceiling being Dalton, although I believe Trubisky has a better arm and is much more athletic.

Curious what you don't like about Watson.

You can find flaws in every QB. The question you ask yourself when selecting a QB in the first round is "can this dude become a franchise QB.

Deshaun Watson
-Frequently overthrows receivers
-bad ball placement on 50/50 balls where his receivers bail him out.
-they call many scripted one read throws for him
-runs too much for his size
-has trouble identifying the underneath LB and over top Safety
-Bails out of the pocket too often. When his first read is covered and he feels any kind of pressure, he immediately runs.
-Stares down receivers

[wab]

Kizer is unequivocally not the most "talented" QB in the draft. He might, with a HEAVY emphasis on might, have the highest ceiling. But he just reeks of Akili Smith to me.

[G08]

The fact remains that Kizer is the most talented QB in the draft. Trubisky's ceiling is Andy Dalton and I don't even want to get started on Watson. If Pace decides to draft a QB with the 3rd overall pick, he better select a guy with the potential to be great. I think Ryan Pace prefers the highest ceiling guys in the 1st round. If he decides to settle for a guy he thinks is the safer, average talent guy, he might as well just trade for Jimmy G.

Elaborate please. I could see an argument for Trubisky's ceiling being Dalton, although I believe Trubisky has a better arm and is much more athletic.

Curious what you don't like about Watson.

You can find flaws in every QB. The question you ask yourself when selecting a QB in the first round is "can this dude become a franchise QB.

Deshaun Watson
-Frequently overthrows receivers This is debatable to me only because often times it's a deep shot that is missed by a hair
-bad ball placement on 50/50 balls where his receivers bail him out. Heavy disagreement here. I counted two or three this past season where he threw a 50/50 ball and didn't account for the WR being jammed at the line. Other times he has thrown freaking dimes (See: Championship Game, National)
-they call many scripted one read throws for him meh, that's fair
-runs too much for his size I disagree here, I've seen him truck linebackers and take clean shots from blitzers and have them bounce off his body like it's nothing
-has trouble identifying the underneath LB and over top SafetyI wouldn't say identifying but there have been 2 or 3 instances where he missed the LB or defensive back reading his eyes
-Bails out of the pocket too often. When his first read is covered and he feels any kind of pressure, he immediately runs. this is valid as well, although it doesn't happen every time. I'm also curious as to how much of the system tells him to take his read and if it's not there take off. I'll never poo-poo positive yards.
-Stares down receivers I won't deny this, it's the #1 thing I don't like about him but I think that changes with reps in a professional system

[wab]

The thing I like the most about Watson is that everyone says he's like a coach on the field. He's like a second offensive coordinator and is a student of the game. The dude knows what everyone is supposed to be doing and where everyone is supposed to be. That helps quell a lot of issues I have with the interceptions, because he knows his offense backwards and forwards.

A lot of his picks came when Williams was out. Cain is talented, but an incredibly undisciplined player. And they don't ask Scott to do much beyond taking the ball on reverses and screens. You see what happens when a QB expects someone to be somewhere and they aren't. See: Hester, Devin.

[G08]

The thing I like the most about Watson is that everyone says he's like a coach on the field. He's like a second offensive coordinator and is a student of the game. The dude knows what everyone is supposed to be doing and where everyone is supposed to be. That helps quell a lot of issues I have with the interceptions, because he knows his offense backwards and forwards.

A lot of his picks came when Williams was out. Cain is talented, but an incredibly undisciplined player. And they don't ask Scott to do much beyond taking the ball on reverses and screens. You see what happens when a QB expects someone to be somewhere and they aren't. See: Hester, Devin.

That's what makes me feel good about him as a prospect. Like you said it's been mentioned that he knows the offense as well, if not better, than some of the coaches. That shows to me that he's an intelligent, dedicated kid. He's got outstanding leadership qualities, which isn't the most important thing in the world necessarily but I think Ryan Pace puts a ton of value in it, and after the whole Jay Cutler "he's not a leader blah blah blah" nonsense, I think it will be over-valued. His arm is solid and he can extend plays / gain positive yards when there is nothing to be had, and I'm of the opinion he's going to measure in at 6'2"+ and 218 lbs.

Get a quality corner in FA, take Watson #3 overall, and then get Budda Baker or any rangy FS in round 2 and you're cooking with gas.

[BamaBear09]

The thing I like the most about Watson is that everyone says he's like a coach on the field. He's like a second offensive coordinator and is a student of the game. The dude knows what everyone is supposed to be doing and where everyone is supposed to be. That helps quell a lot of issues I have with the interceptions, because he knows his offense backwards and forwards.

A lot of his picks came when Williams was out. Cain is talented, but an incredibly undisciplined player. And they don't ask Scott to do much beyond taking the ball on reverses and screens. You see what happens when a QB expects someone to be somewhere and they aren't. See: Hester, Devin.

I really am not high on Watson, if he is selected by the Bears, I really hope his football IQ is as advertised... because I didn't see the accuracy that G08 saw in the NC game, I saw Williams and Leggett bailing him out with amazing catches late. His toughness, leadership and resiliency are definite pluses but I'm scared of pre/post snap recognition as some of his picks look really really bad. But that said, I still would rather have him than Kizer... but I have really hopped on the Mahomes wagon, big time.

[G08]

The thing I like the most about Watson is that everyone says he's like a coach on the field. He's like a second offensive coordinator and is a student of the game. The dude knows what everyone is supposed to be doing and where everyone is supposed to be. That helps quell a lot of issues I have with the interceptions, because he knows his offense backwards and forwards.

A lot of his picks came when Williams was out. Cain is talented, but an incredibly undisciplined player. And they don't ask Scott to do much beyond taking the ball on reverses and screens. You see what happens when a QB expects someone to be somewhere and they aren't. See: Hester, Devin.

I really am not high on Watson, if he is selected by the Bears, I really hope his football IQ is as advertised... because I didn't see the accuracy that G08 saw in the NC game, I saw Williams and Leggett bailing him out with amazing catches late. His toughness, leadership and resiliency are definite pluses but I'm scared of pre/post snap recognition as some of his picks look really really bad. But that said, I still would rather have him than Kizer... but I have really hopped on the Mahomes wagon, big time.

Alshon Jeffery is longer than Williams and Leggett... he can make those catches look simple while offering Watson even more of a target window on those balls. It's beautiful if we're smart enough to retain Alshon and draft Watson.

[Adipost]

Daniel Jeremiah just came out with his top 50 prospect rankings. Check it out.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000775479/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft%3fnetworkId=4595&site=.news&zone=story&zoneUrl=url%253Dstory&zoneKeys=s1%253Dstory&env=&pageKeyValues=prtnr%253Dtop-50-draft-prospects&p.ct=Top+50&p.adsm=false&p.tcm=%2523000&p.bgc1m=%2523EAEAEA&sr=amp

[G08]

Daniel Jeremiah just came out with his top 50 prospect rankings. Check it out.

I did, I liked seeing Baker that high

His assessment on Watson isn't wrong, but I still think his floor is 10 to Buffalo. If we want him, it's going to have to be at 3.

[wab]

I think where you will see Watson begin to climb to the top of the draft is at the combine, and specifically in interviews. Teams are going to fall in love with him whereas I don't think Kizer is going to interview well. Even though it really isn't his personality, Kizer can come across as cocky and condescending.

That the coaching staff at ND didn't put a lot of effort into trying to get him to stick around South Bend tells me quite a bit.

[Adipost]

Daniel Jeremiah just came out with his top 50 prospect rankings. Check it out.

I did, I liked seeing Baker that high

His assessment on Watson isn't wrong, but I still think his floor is 10 to Buffalo. If we want him, it's going to have to be at 3.

Jeremiah is highly respected. Did you see his assessment on Hooker??? Holy Shite!

[G08]

Daniel Jeremiah just came out with his top 50 prospect rankings. Check it out.

I did, I liked seeing Baker that high

His assessment on Watson isn't wrong, but I still think his floor is 10 to Buffalo. If we want him, it's going to have to be at 3.

Jeremiah is highly respected. Did you see his assessment on Hooker??? Holy Shite!

Yeah I did... I just can't picture taking a safety at 3 man... I can't do it

[wab]

The only way you can take a safety in the top 5 is if there is he is absolutely 100% can't miss and is the only piece missing on an already great defense.

I'm already seeing mocks with both Hooker and Adams going in the top 5. No way in hell.

[Adipost]

The only way you can take a safety in the top 5 is if there is he is absolutely 100% can't miss and is the only piece missing on an already great defense.

I'm already seeing mocks with both Hooker and Adams going in the top 5. No way in hell.

Malik Hooker - "He has the best ball skills of any safety I've EVER evaluated in college."

[Adipost]

"He's got the potential to be the greatest player I've EVER coached. And I've coached Ed Reed." - Greg Schiano

[wab]

That's great and all, but I'll be extremely disappointed if the Bears select a safety at #3 overall.

[G08]

I'm intrigued only because Fangio is a mastermind when it comes to coverages... and having someone like Hooker back there could really allow him to be exotic with a lot of his looks.

Sigh... #3 is so fucking high for a God damned safety, though.

[DaSuperfan]

I'm intrigued only because Fangio is a mastermind when it comes to coverages... and having someone like Hooker back there could really allow him to be exotic with a lot of his looks.

Sigh... #3 is so fucking high for a God damned safety, though.

It is, but honestly it's better to take Hooker than reach for a QB IMO. I also have soured a bit on Jonathan Allen - I don't see elite skills from him to make me think he's worth a top 3 pick.

[BamaBear09]

The more I watch on Kizer, the more I feel like he will pretty much repeat Cutler's career: stubborn, big-armed QB coming off a losing college team... has issues with decision making, trusts arm talent a bit too much and holds the ball too long causing him to take sacks because he is lacking the vision to throw a receiver open or misses when a receiver hits a window

[wab]

I've been a Notre Dame fan since I was 6 years old. And I want absolutely nothing to do with Kizer. I was happy to see him leave South Bend, and I'd be beside myself if I had to continue watching him on Sunday.

[Atkins&Rebel]

The only way you can take a safety in the top 5 is if there is he is absolutely 100% can't miss and is the only piece missing on an already great defense.

I'm already seeing mocks with both Hooker and Adams going in the top 5. No way in hell.

Seeing how two of the top defenses to be seen in the last 5 years is because of the superior safety play of Cam Chancelor and Eric Berry, I don't see how you can say that with a straight face. The Raven defense that basically won the superbowl with a little help from Jamal Lewis, was anchored by Ed Reed. Our own defense with Urlacher as it's face began to crumble when Mike Brown couldn't go.

I know that Safety is isn't a glamorous position by comparison with rush LB'ers and DE's, but they are what allow defenses to play close and take chances. Defences in this era of the NFL, where 3 wide shotgun is a staple alignment instead of something you only see in Buffalo, Houston and on 3rd and long. A true top safety would transform our defense IMO.

[G08]

The only way you can take a safety in the top 5 is if there is he is absolutely 100% can't miss and is the only piece missing on an already great defense.

I'm already seeing mocks with both Hooker and Adams going in the top 5. No way in hell.

Seeing how two of the top defenses to be seen in the last 5 years is because of the superior safety play of Cam Chancelor and Eric Berry, I don't see how you can say that with a straight face. The Raven defense that basically won the superbowl with a little help from Jamal Lewis, was anchored by Ed Reed. Our own defense with Urlacher as it's face began to crumble when Mike Brown couldn't go.

I know that Safety is isn't a glamorous position by comparison with rush LB'ers and DE's, but they are what allow defenses to play close and take chances. Defences in this era of the NFL, where 3 wide shotgun is a staple alignment instead of something you only see in Buffalo, Houston and on 3rd and long. A true top safety would transform our defense IMO.

Allow me to counter with: "who are the starting safeties for the Falcons and Patriots".

I'll be impressed if you can name all 4 without looking them up.

[wab]

Ummmm. Keanu Neal and Ricardo Allen for the Falcons. Annnnnd....Devin McCourty and Eric Rowe for the Pats?

[wab]

Or maybe Patrick Chung and Devin McCourty...I'm not sure without actually looking it up.