thunderspirit wrote:Yeah, I agree with wab: Edmunds is much more Urlacher than anyone else. Like #54, Edmunds isn't adept at disengaging from blocks and would be similarly miscast on the edge. Make him a read-and-react guy in the middle of your defense (and get him to freelance less) and you're playing much more to his strengths.
The only difference is that I actually think Urlacher would have been even more successful outside in a 3-4 than he was inside in a 4-3.
I think it would be fun to have seen that. I recall that a handful of times in a very short span of time fairly early in the Lovie era, they rushed #54 off the edge and he looked like an absolute natural. After I saw that, I've always thought Urlacher could've been an edge guy.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
So I really kind of like Armstrong. He has the skill set to be a first round player. Yet won't be. I don't think Kansas helped him much with this hold up read style of line play. But when he gets changes to turn it up there is a rush backer there. Length check. Physical/ Athletic ability check. Quick first step check. He needs to get stronger, work on his hands, and build a counter. The skills are there to be pretty good.
I struggle with Armstrong because he has that Alshon/Forte thing where his stride length make him look like he's not running full speed. The plays where he fails to get to the QB or chase down a ball carrier from behind i'm just like RUN MAN CMON RUN.
For me, Chubb is obviously the best prospect. I know that's not a hot take but I've finally gotten around to watching tape and I can see why he's listed as #1 in so many places.
Davenport is just an athlete right now IMO and needs to learn a lot about football. It's hard to say how much he can be coached up so the interviews will be important. Right now he's very susceptible to fakes and reads, he gets caught up in the wash on plays going away from him, and he took bad angles at times against runners. He'll probably be a good player but at #8 I want to love a guy, and I don't love him.
Edmunds is fun to watch. I don't see enough tape of him to know if he can holdup at OLB on 1st downs but he could play ILB in base and move to OLB on obvious passing downs? I think it's a good value to get a high floor ILB with high ceiling pass rush skills. Fangio could get weird with him for sure. I was trying to think of a team who uses a guy like that and draftcountdown nailed it: Anthony Barr is a great comp and was drafted at 9th overall
I'm watching Landry and wondering if he struggled in the BC scheme at times. It looks like he got killed on two-gap assignments, and I wonder if he had more two-gap assignments in 2017? He definitely should not be playing in a 4-3 but as a 3-4 backer with a good 5T next to him he should be great. I can't imagine he'll be BPA at 8 but I seriously doubt he'll be around in the 2nd. Also, I wonder if we can get away with having two undersized OLBs.
crueltyabc wrote:I'm watching Landry and wondering if he struggled in the BC scheme at times. It looks like he got killed on two-gap assignments, and I wonder if he had more two-gap assignments in 2017? He definitely should not be playing in a 4-3 but as a 3-4 backer with a good 5T next to him he should be great. I can't imagine he'll be BPA at 8 but I seriously doubt he'll be around in the 2nd. Also, I wonder if we can get away with having two undersized OLBs.
With Landry all I see is a speed rush and when tackles get beat they can just extend and knock him off base. He's a weaker Vic Beasley is how I described him on another board. I'm sure he can get stronger but if I had my choice I'd take Edmunds. At worst I could keep him at ILB if he doesn't show the ability to develop a pass rush (I'm of the opinion he'll be fine in that regard).
Right now Edmunds is my top choice and then it's a toss-up between Jackson and Ward.
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wab wrote:There's not a lot of great edge prospects in R1. Edmunds is my top guy for where the Bears are picking. Edmunds, Nelson, Jackson are my top 3.
My top 4, in any order - Nelson, Landry, Jackson or Edmunds. If the Bears land anyone of these guys in R1, I'd be pretty happy.
So I really kind of like Armstrong. He has the skill set to be a first round player. Yet won't be. I don't think Kansas helped him much with this hold up read style of line play. But when he gets changes to turn it up there is a rush backer there. Length check. Physical/ Athletic ability check. Quick first step check. He needs to get stronger, work on his hands, and build a counter. The skills are there to be pretty good.
Sam Hubbard. Weighed 270 at the combine but still put up the best cone of the group (a metric I focus heavily on when studying pass rushers). He doesn't have an elite burst (I'm expecting a slower 40 time for him) but he's a worker, someone you won't find loafing on plays that are going away from him.
He doesn't have the juice I love in a pass rusher, but this kid should be a solid pro and well worthy of a round 2 pick in my mind. Think of a thicker/less athletic TJ Watt.
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Sam Hubbard. Weighed 270 at the combine but still put up the best cone of the group (a metric I focus heavily on when studying pass rushers). He doesn't have an elite burst (I'm expecting a slower 40 time for him) but he's a worker, someone you won't find loafing on plays that are going away from him.
He doesn't have the juice I love in a pass rusher, but this kid should be a solid pro and well worthy of a round 2 pick in my mind. Think of a thicker/less athletic TJ Watt.
Yes, but his Vertical and Broad Jump were just average. I like him as a player - but I just wonder if he is what he is already. If he's there in the second he's certainly worth considering - theres just not a whole lot of excitement attached to a Hubbard pick.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
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Sam Hubbard. Weighed 270 at the combine but still put up the best cone of the group (a metric I focus heavily on when studying pass rushers). He doesn't have an elite burst (I'm expecting a slower 40 time for him) but he's a worker, someone you won't find loafing on plays that are going away from him.
He doesn't have the juice I love in a pass rusher, but this kid should be a solid pro and well worthy of a round 2 pick in my mind. Think of a thicker/less athletic TJ Watt.
Yes, but his Vertical and Broad Jump were just average. I like him as a player - but I just wonder if he is what he is already. If he's there in the second he's certainly worth considering - theres just not a whole lot of excitement attached to a Hubbard pick.
35" vert, 6th best 60 yard shuttle in the past 13 years (of DL). He's more Pernell McPhee than he is Leonard Floyd.
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Hubbard was a safety in HS, so the agility scores aren't a big surprise. Nothing overwhelming there, but a steady performer. He should be a good fit at SOLB (the role Pernell McPhee would infrequently play).
How much of his production is based on the talent on OSU is a question.
In what round does Arden Key become a possible target for Pace? I understand there are concerns about his character but he knows how to get to the QB. NFL.com compares him to Willie Young. If his head is on straight, he could be a gem.
Hematite wrote:In what round does Arden Key become a possible target for Pace? I understand there are concerns about his character but he knows how to get to the QB. NFL.com compares him to Willie Young. If his head is on straight, he could be a gem.
Hematite wrote:In what round does Arden Key become a possible target for Pace? I understand there are concerns about his character but he knows how to get to the QB. NFL.com compares him to Willie Young. If his head is on straight, he could be a gem.
I think with his character concerns Pace probably doesn't even have him on his board.
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What do you guys think of Josh Sweat and Lorenzo Carter? They are mid tier guys in case we lose out on some of the top ones if go different direction with our first pick.
bearsfaninaz wrote:What do you guys think of Josh Sweat and Lorenzo Carter? They are mid tier guys in case we lose out on some of the top ones if go different direction with our first pick.
I haven't dug into either one yet, maybe I'll do that tonight if I find the time. Some people love Carter.
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It seems like we may re-sign Lamarr Houston or someone similar, making our OLB group...
Floyd, Houston, Acho, Isaiah Irving, Howard Jones
Given that, it seems possible that he'll bite at Tremaine Edmunds with pick 8, although some mocks have him falling a bit if we don't take him. If Pace isn't top 10 excited about trying to make an edge guy out of a player who hasn't really played that role, I could really see Pace open to the possibility of trading down and out of 8, getting another R2 or R3 pick and taking pass rushers in R1 AND R2.
Example...
Baker Mayfield is there when we're on the clock. Arizona signed Sam Bradford, but knows he can't rely on Bradford and needs an investment in the future of the position. So they send us picks 15 and 47 in return for 8 and one of our R4 choices and take Mayfield with pick 8.
At 15, we should have a shot at maybe 2 out of the 3 of Edmunds, Davenport and Landry. (I don't view Key as a character that would interest Pace in R1.) Almost certainly 1 of those will be there and we'll get one.
Then in R2, at 39 or 47, you nab another edge guy to fill out our group (opinions vary on values and fits in our defense, so I'm not going to name names here), provide a hedge for our R1 selection and suddenly go from a rather ho hum group to a position of youth and strength. And next year, Houston who is not the best fit in our defense and on the wrong side of 30, can ride off into the sunset and give us back some cap room.
That seems like quite a rational plan to shore up a key position where we really need to get better.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Carter is interesting because his skill set is still very much developing. He is a smooth athlete not overly sudden. I don't think he will ever have a ton of power to his game but physically can bend and get up field. I think he is a guy you can mold into a pretty good player.
Sweat has the tools but the flaws are fairly pronounced. Injuries the big one. It takes him a bit of space to get moving and he is fairly narrow. Uses his long arms well. And is flexible. I think he has all the talent and is less work then Carter, but medical is why he isn't a first rounder.
If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.
What do we do?
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If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.
What do we do?
Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???
If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.
What do we do?
Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???
Davenport is a freak, no question about it, I just wish what I was seeing was done against legitimate competition, ya know? I don't know anything about his personality or drive etc etc so right now, in my mind, he's an athletic freak that crushed lesser competition.
The other thing is I think 8 is too rich for him and I don't think he'll be there in round 2.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.
What do we do?
Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???
Davenport is a freak, no question about it, I just wish what I was seeing was done against legitimate competition, ya know? I don't know anything about his personality or drive etc etc so right now, in my mind, he's an athletic freak that crushed lesser competition.
The other thing is I think 8 is too rich for him and I don't think he'll be there in round 2.
McCblaz wrote:I'd take Landry in the 1st and Sweat in the second.
We're good at CB, DT, MLB, WR, QB, RB, S, TE....for the most part.
I say load up on edge rushers!
With Sweats injury history (knee), there is no way I want him in the 2nd round. If he's still available in the 4th, I'm all in! High risk/reward draft prospect in Sweat.
Adipost wrote:Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???
Davenport is a freak, no question about it, I just wish what I was seeing was done against legitimate competition, ya know? I don't know anything about his personality or drive etc etc so right now, in my mind, he's an athletic freak that crushed lesser competition.
The other thing is I think 8 is too rich for him and I don't think he'll be there in round 2.
Davenport did okay at the Senior Bowl against legitimate competition. (Not great, mind you, but okay.)
#8 is higher than I'd like too, but he's got elite athletic traits — the kind you typically don't find in the later rounds. He's not a sure thing, but isn't that why you hire coaches you think can teach?
Having just posted my prescription for the Bears to trade back and take 2 edge guys, I'm starting to think that the pass rush group--despite the question marks after Chubb--is going to get overdrafted, simply because of the dearth of pass rush options in free agency. If you're a team like the Bears, Packers and others who need to upgrade one of the most important positions on defense, you might roll the dice and reach for one without another way to get one. Teams trading up for one--even with question marks--is certainly possible this year. So maybe I'm talking myself out of trading down very far.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to be Tremaine Edmunds. At worst, he's an elite talent at MLB (keyword: talent). At best? A versatile EDGE rusher that not only can get after the passer but can drop into coverage and carry RBs up the sidelines with ease. That's the move if I'm calling the shots.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
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