EDGE rusher talk

Atkins&Rebel · Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:54 am

Who plays DE vs NT if we take Vea? Does Vea man the NT and Goldman kicks out to DE, or vice versa?

Not against the idea, I like Vea, but not if our coaches think he and Goldman play the same position.

Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:23 pm

Atkins&Rebel wrote:Who plays DE vs NT if we take Vea? Does Vea man the NT and Goldman kicks out to DE, or vice versa?

Not against the idea, I like Vea, but not if our coaches think he and Goldman play the same position.

Goldman probably kicks out to end.

Adipost · Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:50 pm

wab wrote:
Atkins&Rebel wrote:Who plays DE vs NT if we take Vea? Does Vea man the NT and Goldman kicks out to DE, or vice versa?

Not against the idea, I like Vea, but not if our coaches think he and Goldman play the same position.
Goldman probably kicks out to end.

The problem with 3 elite DE’s is that one usually has to sit out when the Bears are in sub packages.

Hematite · Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:56 pm

Adipost wrote:
wab wrote:
Atkins&Rebel wrote:Who plays DE vs NT if we take Vea? Does Vea man the NT and Goldman kicks out to DE, or vice versa?

Not against the idea, I like Vea, but not if our coaches think he and Goldman play the same position.
Goldman probably kicks out to end.
The problem with 3 elite DE’s is that one usually has to sit out when the Bears are in sub packages.

Drafting Saquon Barkley if he falls to 8 is bad, because of Howard.
Drafting Vea at 8, even though we have Goldman, is somehow a better choice?

I'm confused.

Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:21 pm

Hematite wrote:
Adipost wrote:
wab wrote:
Atkins&Rebel wrote:Who plays DE vs NT if we take Vea? Does Vea man the NT and Goldman kicks out to DE, or vice versa?

Not against the idea, I like Vea, but not if our coaches think he and Goldman play the same position.
Goldman probably kicks out to end.
The problem with 3 elite DE’s is that one usually has to sit out when the Bears are in sub packages.
Drafting Saquon Barkley if he falls to 8 is bad, because of Howard.
Drafting Vea at 8, even though we have Goldman, is somehow a better choice?

I'm confused.

Because the defensive line and the running back position are about as apples and oranges as you can get.

Hematite · Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:01 am

Hematite wrote:I'm kinda intriqued by Ja'von Rolland Jones in the 6th round if he is still available. He's not gonna be a guy that can be effective every down, but in sub packages when its time to get the QB, he may have value!

He played for a small school but was a sack machine. Gem or shiny rock?

Now I know why I was ignored Wab!!

Mikefive · Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:57 am

Hematite wrote:
Adipost wrote:
wab wrote:
Atkins&Rebel wrote:Who plays DE vs NT if we take Vea? Does Vea man the NT and Goldman kicks out to DE, or vice versa?

Not against the idea, I like Vea, but not if our coaches think he and Goldman play the same position.
Goldman probably kicks out to end.
The problem with 3 elite DE’s is that one usually has to sit out when the Bears are in sub packages.
Drafting Saquon Barkley if he falls to 8 is bad, because of Howard.
Drafting Vea at 8, even though we have Goldman, is somehow a better choice?

I'm confused.

You could play Hicks, Goldman and Vea at the 3 DE spots and probably be pretty darned successful. Probably the best run defense in the league.

With 2 very good RBs, there's only one ball and the other isn't a blocking specialist.

G08 · Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:43 am

wab wrote:If Edmunds and Nelson are gone and the Bears aren’t comfortable with Davenport...I’m good with Vea or Bryan at 8. Bryan may be a stretch but I think he goes top 12 by the time it’s all said and done. Hard to ignore the JJ Watt comparisons.

Davenport makes sense if Pace and Friends feel comfortable with developing him. Kid just feels so raw to me.

Adipost · Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:27 am

G08 wrote:
wab wrote:If Edmunds and Nelson are gone and the Bears aren’t comfortable with Davenport...I’m good with Vea or Bryan at 8. Bryan may be a stretch but I think he goes top 12 by the time it’s all said and done. Hard to ignore the JJ Watt comparisons.
Davenport makes sense if Pace and Friends feel comfortable with developing him. Kid just feels so raw to me.

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/20/17089168/2018-nfl-draft-marcus-davenport-breakdown-scouting-report

Rusty Trombagent · Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:47 am

davenport is raw, but edmunds has potential. gotcha.

G08 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:59 am

RustyTrubisky wrote:davenport is raw, but edmunds has potential. gotcha.

Absolutely, you can do a ton more with Edmunds on the defensive side of the ball than you can Davenport. The difference between the two is that Edmunds has shown it against better competition while Davenport was slapping Rice and North Texas around (more than half his sacks in those two games last season).

I see the talent, for sure, but I like the idea of Edmunds playing ILB and OLB more than I like the idea of Davenport playing OLB and 3T. That's just me.

Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:01 am

I'm looking forward to the podcast on Sunday if only to know Chris and I will be greatly triggering G08 by shitting on Edmunds, as both of us would hate the pick.

G08 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:02 am

UOK wrote:I'm looking forward to the podcast on Sunday if only to know Chris and I will be greatly triggering G08 by shitting on Edmunds, as both of us would hate the pick.

That's honestly 75% of the fun of draft season for me. Everyone has their opinions and they're passionate about it.

Just have good reasons!

cblaz11 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:11 am

Davenport and Edmunds are both raw.

Davenport has shown the ability to be an edge rusher though..

Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:13 am

G08 wrote:
UOK wrote:I'm looking forward to the podcast on Sunday if only to know Chris and I will be greatly triggering G08 by shitting on Edmunds, as both of us would hate the pick.
That's honestly 75% of the fun of draft season for me. Everyone has their opinions and they're passionate about it.

Just have good reasons!

More of an athlete than a football talent; I don't want to bet the 8th pick on athletic gifts only to find out the guy can't interpret or execute courtesy of poor football instincts.
Needs countless reps to improve footwork and tackling form. One of those things he still has to prove he can learn, but...
...I don't know how I feel about drafting a kid this young. It'd be one thing if you had a Freeman or veteran starter in place that would let Edmunds learn from, but Edmunds would be expected to start and immediately contribute. That's a lot of pressure to put on a 20 year old in a huge market.
The boom or bust gamble makes me worried. I would respect the pick for the boldness of it, but if you take him over a generational guard talent like Nelson, you're fucking up. Maybe.
I'd be much, much happier with Edmunds being the pick on the condition that the Bears acquired him after trading down. At 8? It would obviously depend on the board, but I'd consider my other options heavily before taking a chance.

cblaz11 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:16 am

My biggest concern with Edmunds is the fact that he's consistently out of position lol

cblaz11 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:27 am

But man is he big. How tall is he? 6-5? Does that mean we should also start him at shooting guard for the Bulls? I know he's shown zero ability to hit a jumper...or dribble, but we're drafting him as an edge rusher so why stop there?

Hematite · Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:54 am

cblaz11 wrote:But man is he big. How tall is he? 6-5? Does that mean we should also start him at shooting guard for the Bulls? I know he's shown zero ability to hit a jumper...or dribble, but we're drafting him as an edge rusher so why stop there?

Hmmmm. interesting thought exercise. But I agree. The fact that he hasn't shown on tape that he is capable of being a full time edge rusher scares me a bit. All of the good GM's/scouts always talk about the tape, always go back to the tape.

It's a risky pick, but if he worked out and became an Anthony Barr type player, it would be so worth the risk. Glady, I don't have to figure that one out, Pace and Co. I'm sure are doing their best to do just that.

Personally, I'd love Edmunds in a trade down scenario (if he's still available).

Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:13 pm

I was really hot on Edmunds early on, and I still really like him, but the Bears already have that same guy on the roster. Give me Nelson and I'll be happy. If he's gone, give me Vita Vea or Taven Bryan and I'll be happy.

G08 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:55 pm

cblaz11 wrote:My biggest concern with Edmunds is the fact that he's consistently out of position lol

108 tackles this season, 14 for a loss; 94 tackles last season, 16.5 for a loss.... but consistently out of position.

crueltyabc · Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:58 pm

I don't get the Vea at 8 thing. Payne (my fav) and Bryan are also legit and some people like Hurst (I don't see it but it supports my argument) so I think you have an opportunity to trade back and still get a good DT from that clump.

thunderspirit · Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:34 pm

G08 wrote:
cblaz11 wrote:My biggest concern with Edmunds is the fact that he's consistently out of position lol
108 tackles this season, 14 for a loss; 94 tackles last season, 16.5 for a loss.... but consistently out of position.

Edmunds averaged better than one TFL each game (1.03) during his Hokie career, and that includes his freshman season when he primarily played special teams. Some of that is testament to his speed, I'm certain of that.

But not all of it.

DaSuperfan · Wed Mar 28, 2018 5:42 pm

Thoughts on Lorenzo Carter in R2, if available?

cblaz11 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:01 pm

DaSuperfan wrote:Thoughts on Lorenzo Carter in R2, if available?

I'm a big Lorenzo Carter guy..His Notre Dame tape is off the charts. That being said, his other games are not nearly as impressive. Some of that is because he wasn't asked to consistently rush the passer, similar to Floyd.

The guy plays with a motor, shows pass rush ability, uses his hands well to shed blocks, and is a leader. He's a gym rat and his measurables are phenomenal. I like him, I think he could go anywhere from late 1st to mid 3rd.

thunderspirit · Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:10 pm

DaSuperfan wrote:Thoughts on Lorenzo Carter in R2, if available?

Carter is a phenomenal, explosive straight-line athlete.

Carter's production has been wholly lackluster.

I thought he was a guy like Leonard Floyd, and would be overdrafted based on his athletic potential — but frankly, that's dissing what Floyd produced while at Georgia in three seasons versus Carter's four.

I am not a fan. Someone is going to see that speed and explosion and think they can make something with it. I hope it's not the Bears.

cblaz11 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:37 pm

I'm a Carter fan..but I liked him a lot more as a 3rd or 4th rd pick

G08 · Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:12 pm

Man... Davenport is a fucking brute, I just wish he didn't play so God damned tall as often as he did.

Could you imagine him coming off the EDGE opposite Akiem Hicks? Jesus that's a lot of humanity charging at you...

Adipost · Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:16 am

cblaz11 wrote:But man is he big. How tall is he? 6-5? Does that mean we should also start him at shooting guard for the Bulls? I know he's shown zero ability to hit a jumper...or dribble, but we're drafting him as an edge rusher so why stop there?

The Marshall Plan · Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:37 am

G08 wrote:Man... Davenport is a fucking brute, I just wish he didn't play so God damned tall as often as he did.

Could you imagine him coming off the EDGE opposite Akiem Hicks? Jesus that's a lot of humanity charging at you...

You can coach that and we've got one of the best DCs to help him. That's why I'm hoping we pick him at 8.

cblaz11 · Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:48 am

http://draftbreakdown.com/2017/12/07/ma ... exas-2017/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is good tape