EDGE rusher talk
Moderator: wab
- thunderspirit
- Head Coach
- Posts: 3829
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:51 pm
- Location: Greater Chicagoland, IL
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 603 times
Urlacher wasn't the same guy we saw at MLB for a long time coming out of New Mexico, either. You're drafting traits and projecting them.
KFFL refugee.
dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
Urlacher wasn't ever supposed to be Urlacher. He was a weird safety/punt returner that everyone thought was a reach because no one could decide what position he played.
I'm NOT saying that Edmunds is Urlacher. I am saying there are similarities. They are both raw, athletic specimens that played weird hybrid positions. They are both guys who you have to project into NFL positions. Both guys who take too many false steps, but have the recovery speed to correct. Both smart football players.
I'm NOT saying that Edmunds is Urlacher. I am saying there are similarities. They are both raw, athletic specimens that played weird hybrid positions. They are both guys who you have to project into NFL positions. Both guys who take too many false steps, but have the recovery speed to correct. Both smart football players.
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1272
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
This guy sucks..I tried going back and watching again.
Plays out of position, plays way to upright...and plays slow.
Hard pass..please don't compare him to our HOF LB.
Also, Brian Urlacher was not built to play OLB in a 3-4..That's a terrible thought.
Plays out of position, plays way to upright...and plays slow.
Hard pass..please don't compare him to our HOF LB.
Also, Brian Urlacher was not built to play OLB in a 3-4..That's a terrible thought.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
If Brian Urlacher was drafted now, he absolutely would be looked at as a 3-4 OLB.McCblaz wrote:This guy sucks..I tried going back and watching again.
Plays out of position, plays way to upright...and plays slow.
Hard pass..please don't compare him to our HOF LB.
Also, Brian Urlacher was not built to play OLB in a 3-4..That's a terrible thought.
6'4 260 4.55 40
41 career sacks, 78 passes defensed, 22 interceptions in a defense where his main job was to cover the middle of the field from one sideline to the other. Can you imagine what he'd do if he was able to pass rush/blitz more?
You are lying to yourself if you think a coach like Fangio wouldn't figure out a way to use him outside.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
What position do you think the Lobo was in New Mexico's 3-3-5? It was their version of the Leo/Jack that's so rampantly popular today.
Again, no one is saying that Edmunds IS BRIAN URLACHER. I am saying there are similarities. I'm not sure why that has your jimmies all rustled.
Again, no one is saying that Edmunds IS BRIAN URLACHER. I am saying there are similarities. I'm not sure why that has your jimmies all rustled.
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1272
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
Nope
You cant just spout measurables and place a guy in a certain category. Urlacher did not have the hand quickness or the hip flexibilty to rush off the edge.
If he were coming out today, we would be looked at as a MLB lol..the position he made the HOF as.
You cant just spout measurables and place a guy in a certain category. Urlacher did not have the hand quickness or the hip flexibilty to rush off the edge.
If he were coming out today, we would be looked at as a MLB lol..the position he made the HOF as.
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1272
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
Urlacher played safety at New Mexico..he thrived in coverage and chasing down sideline to sideline. The areas that you need your MLB to be good. He struggled with shedding blocks and blitzing...The areas you need your pass rushers to excel. He was exactly what he was...A middle linebacker.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
He absolutely did early in his career. His hips were what allowed him to move laterally so well. His so called stiffness didn't start until the neck/back issues popped up around 2008.McCblaz wrote:Urlacher did not have the hand quickness or the hip flexibilty to rush off the edge.
Regardless, Edmunds doesn't "suck". So, yeah....that's just patently false.
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1272
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
I guess I just dislike Edmunds that much. As a 4-3 middle linebacker he may be ok, and I don't even have that much faith in him. That being said, he has shown nothing to make us think he can rush the passer. To talk about him in the top 10 is ludicrous to me..
I'd take Roquan Smith over him as a MLB, and I'd take numerous edge rushers over him.
I'd take Roquan Smith over him as a MLB, and I'd take numerous edge rushers over him.
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
Edmunds had as many sacks this year as Landry. And he's barely 20 years old. The Bears may not draft him, but whatever lens you are looking at him through is very off.
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1272
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
Time will tell on Edmunds. I think your overvaluing him based on his measurables which has gotten pleanty of GMs in trouble over the years. I take measurables into account but I also look at their tape. The guys just looks ok on tape and I don't really see him flash.
I guess that's the fun part of this time of year..
I guess that's the fun part of this time of year..
- Rusty Trombagent
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 7336
- Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:19 am
- Location: Maine!
- Has thanked: 555 times
- Been thanked: 967 times
lol... coach here watches the tape!McCblaz wrote:All your looking at is stats and measurables...have you watched any tape?
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
"Tape"? No. Highlights and game cut-ups, yes.McCblaz wrote:All your looking at is stats and measurables...have you watched any tape?
I mean after watching this he's clearly terrible.
[video][/video]
- Atkins&Rebel
- Head Coach
- Posts: 2177
- Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:56 pm
- Has thanked: 32 times
- Been thanked: 123 times
I have nothing against Edmunds, but I will say pointing to any highlight reel as a reason to draft anyone is dumb. A prospect who can't look good in a highlight reel isn't playing in the NFL, let alone getting drafted.
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
-
- MVP
- Posts: 1272
- Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:02 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 111 times
Exactly...watch a full game. Go to draft breakdown.com
He flashes...But he gets washed away a lot more then the times he flashes. The guys a decent MLB prospect, but I have zero in him as a pass rusher.
When Benardrick McKinney came out..everyone wanted him as an edge rusher because of his size...He's played MLB since getting drafted. I think best case, this guy is McKinney.
He flashes...But he gets washed away a lot more then the times he flashes. The guys a decent MLB prospect, but I have zero in him as a pass rusher.
When Benardrick McKinney came out..everyone wanted him as an edge rusher because of his size...He's played MLB since getting drafted. I think best case, this guy is McKinney.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
Blaz I don't know what you're seeing because this kid flies off the screen when I watch him.
Is he developed? No, he's barely 20 years old. I'd put him on the edge and tell him to pin his ears back and go eat.
Once he gets some refinement I literally giggle at the ways Fangio can use Floyd and him in coverage. It won't be fair having dudes that long and that fast slamming passing windows shut.
He's my pick at 8, it's a no brainer to me.
Is he developed? No, he's barely 20 years old. I'd put him on the edge and tell him to pin his ears back and go eat.
Once he gets some refinement I literally giggle at the ways Fangio can use Floyd and him in coverage. It won't be fair having dudes that long and that fast slamming passing windows shut.
He's my pick at 8, it's a no brainer to me.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
My man.G08 wrote:Blaz I don't know what you're seeing because this kid flies off the screen when I watch him.
Is he developed? No, he's barely 20 years old. I'd put him on the edge and tell him to pin his ears back and go eat.
Once he gets some refinement I literally giggle at the ways Fangio can use Floyd and him in coverage. It won't be fair having dudes that long and that fast slamming passing windows shut.
He's my pick at 8, it's a no brainer to me.
- Mikefive
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 5189
- Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
- Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
- Has thanked: 340 times
- Been thanked: 278 times
I think it would be fun to have seen that. I recall that a handful of times in a very short span of time fairly early in the Lovie era, they rushed #54 off the edge and he looked like an absolute natural. After I saw that, I've always thought Urlacher could've been an edge guy.wab wrote:The only difference is that I actually think Urlacher would have been even more successful outside in a 3-4 than he was inside in a 4-3.thunderspirit wrote:Yeah, I agree with wab: Edmunds is much more Urlacher than anyone else. Like #54, Edmunds isn't adept at disengaging from blocks and would be similarly miscast on the edge. Make him a read-and-react guy in the middle of your defense (and get him to freelance less) and you're playing much more to his strengths.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
- mmmc_35
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 6113
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
- Has thanked: 105 times
- Been thanked: 98 times
DORANCE ARMSTRONG
So I really kind of like Armstrong. He has the skill set to be a first round player. Yet won't be. I don't think Kansas helped him much with this hold up read style of line play. But when he gets changes to turn it up there is a rush backer there. Length check. Physical/ Athletic ability check. Quick first step check. He needs to get stronger, work on his hands, and build a counter. The skills are there to be pretty good.
DORANCE ARMSTRONG NFL.COM
Armstrong 2017 Scouting
West Virginia
Highlights
So I really kind of like Armstrong. He has the skill set to be a first round player. Yet won't be. I don't think Kansas helped him much with this hold up read style of line play. But when he gets changes to turn it up there is a rush backer there. Length check. Physical/ Athletic ability check. Quick first step check. He needs to get stronger, work on his hands, and build a counter. The skills are there to be pretty good.
DORANCE ARMSTRONG NFL.COM
Armstrong 2017 Scouting
West Virginia
Highlights
- crueltyabc
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 5119
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 7:36 pm
- Location: Dallas TX
- Has thanked: 79 times
- Been thanked: 226 times
I struggle with Armstrong because he has that Alshon/Forte thing where his stride length make him look like he's not running full speed. The plays where he fails to get to the QB or chase down a ball carrier from behind i'm just like RUN MAN CMON RUN.
For me, Chubb is obviously the best prospect. I know that's not a hot take but I've finally gotten around to watching tape and I can see why he's listed as #1 in so many places.
Davenport is just an athlete right now IMO and needs to learn a lot about football. It's hard to say how much he can be coached up so the interviews will be important. Right now he's very susceptible to fakes and reads, he gets caught up in the wash on plays going away from him, and he took bad angles at times against runners. He'll probably be a good player but at #8 I want to love a guy, and I don't love him.
Edmunds is fun to watch. I don't see enough tape of him to know if he can holdup at OLB on 1st downs but he could play ILB in base and move to OLB on obvious passing downs? I think it's a good value to get a high floor ILB with high ceiling pass rush skills. Fangio could get weird with him for sure. I was trying to think of a team who uses a guy like that and draftcountdown nailed it: Anthony Barr is a great comp and was drafted at 9th overall
For me, Chubb is obviously the best prospect. I know that's not a hot take but I've finally gotten around to watching tape and I can see why he's listed as #1 in so many places.
Davenport is just an athlete right now IMO and needs to learn a lot about football. It's hard to say how much he can be coached up so the interviews will be important. Right now he's very susceptible to fakes and reads, he gets caught up in the wash on plays going away from him, and he took bad angles at times against runners. He'll probably be a good player but at #8 I want to love a guy, and I don't love him.
Edmunds is fun to watch. I don't see enough tape of him to know if he can holdup at OLB on 1st downs but he could play ILB in base and move to OLB on obvious passing downs? I think it's a good value to get a high floor ILB with high ceiling pass rush skills. Fangio could get weird with him for sure. I was trying to think of a team who uses a guy like that and draftcountdown nailed it: Anthony Barr is a great comp and was drafted at 9th overall
xyt in the discord chats
- crueltyabc
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 5119
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 7:36 pm
- Location: Dallas TX
- Has thanked: 79 times
- Been thanked: 226 times
I'm watching Landry and wondering if he struggled in the BC scheme at times. It looks like he got killed on two-gap assignments, and I wonder if he had more two-gap assignments in 2017? He definitely should not be playing in a 4-3 but as a 3-4 backer with a good 5T next to him he should be great. I can't imagine he'll be BPA at 8 but I seriously doubt he'll be around in the 2nd. Also, I wonder if we can get away with having two undersized OLBs.
xyt in the discord chats
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
With Landry all I see is a speed rush and when tackles get beat they can just extend and knock him off base. He's a weaker Vic Beasley is how I described him on another board. I'm sure he can get stronger but if I had my choice I'd take Edmunds. At worst I could keep him at ILB if he doesn't show the ability to develop a pass rush (I'm of the opinion he'll be fine in that regard).crueltyabc wrote:I'm watching Landry and wondering if he struggled in the BC scheme at times. It looks like he got killed on two-gap assignments, and I wonder if he had more two-gap assignments in 2017? He definitely should not be playing in a 4-3 but as a 3-4 backer with a good 5T next to him he should be great. I can't imagine he'll be BPA at 8 but I seriously doubt he'll be around in the 2nd. Also, I wonder if we can get away with having two undersized OLBs.
Right now Edmunds is my top choice and then it's a toss-up between Jackson and Ward.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
There's not a lot of great edge prospects in R1. Edmunds is my top guy for where the Bears are picking. Edmunds, Nelson, Jackson are my top 3.
- DaSuperfan
- Crafty Veteran
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:44 pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 9 times
My top 4, in any order - Nelson, Landry, Jackson or Edmunds. If the Bears land anyone of these guys in R1, I'd be pretty happy.wab wrote:There's not a lot of great edge prospects in R1. Edmunds is my top guy for where the Bears are picking. Edmunds, Nelson, Jackson are my top 3.
Never Die Easy
- thunderspirit
- Head Coach
- Posts: 3829
- Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 12:51 pm
- Location: Greater Chicagoland, IL
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 603 times
For whatever my opinion is worth, I like Armstrong a lot. He's not ready to hold the edge right now, but I think he could very well develop into that.mmmc_35 wrote:DORANCE ARMSTRONG
So I really kind of like Armstrong. He has the skill set to be a first round player. Yet won't be. I don't think Kansas helped him much with this hold up read style of line play. But when he gets changes to turn it up there is a rush backer there. Length check. Physical/ Athletic ability check. Quick first step check. He needs to get stronger, work on his hands, and build a counter. The skills are there to be pretty good.
DORANCE ARMSTRONG NFL.COM
Armstrong 2017 Scouting
West Virginia
Highlights
KFFL refugee.
dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
You know who I like in round 2?
Sam Hubbard. Weighed 270 at the combine but still put up the best cone of the group (a metric I focus heavily on when studying pass rushers). He doesn't have an elite burst (I'm expecting a slower 40 time for him) but he's a worker, someone you won't find loafing on plays that are going away from him.
He doesn't have the juice I love in a pass rusher, but this kid should be a solid pro and well worthy of a round 2 pick in my mind. Think of a thicker/less athletic TJ Watt.
Sam Hubbard. Weighed 270 at the combine but still put up the best cone of the group (a metric I focus heavily on when studying pass rushers). He doesn't have an elite burst (I'm expecting a slower 40 time for him) but he's a worker, someone you won't find loafing on plays that are going away from him.
He doesn't have the juice I love in a pass rusher, but this kid should be a solid pro and well worthy of a round 2 pick in my mind. Think of a thicker/less athletic TJ Watt.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- Hiphopopotamos
- Head Coach
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:56 pm
G08 wrote:You know who I like in round 2?
Sam Hubbard. Weighed 270 at the combine but still put up the best cone of the group (a metric I focus heavily on when studying pass rushers). He doesn't have an elite burst (I'm expecting a slower 40 time for him) but he's a worker, someone you won't find loafing on plays that are going away from him.
He doesn't have the juice I love in a pass rusher, but this kid should be a solid pro and well worthy of a round 2 pick in my mind. Think of a thicker/less athletic TJ Watt.
Yes, but his Vertical and Broad Jump were just average. I like him as a player - but I just wonder if he is what he is already. If he's there in the second he's certainly worth considering - theres just not a whole lot of excitement attached to a Hubbard pick.
Holy Shit - We got Justin Fields!
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.
In my former life I was known as FencikFanatic.
Oh, and if you were wondering - yes I'm real. And I'm fantastic.