EDGE rusher talk

[G08]

You know who I like in round 2?

Sam Hubbard. Weighed 270 at the combine but still put up the best cone of the group (a metric I focus heavily on when studying pass rushers). He doesn't have an elite burst (I'm expecting a slower 40 time for him) but he's a worker, someone you won't find loafing on plays that are going away from him.

He doesn't have the juice I love in a pass rusher, but this kid should be a solid pro and well worthy of a round 2 pick in my mind. Think of a thicker/less athletic TJ Watt.

Yes, but his Vertical and Broad Jump were just average. I like him as a player - but I just wonder if he is what he is already. If he's there in the second he's certainly worth considering - theres just not a whole lot of excitement attached to a Hubbard pick.

35" vert, 6th best 60 yard shuttle in the past 13 years (of DL). He's more Pernell McPhee than he is Leonard Floyd.

[thunderspirit]

Hubbard was a safety in HS, so the agility scores aren't a big surprise. Nothing overwhelming there, but a steady performer. He should be a good fit at SOLB (the role Pernell McPhee would infrequently play).

How much of his production is based on the talent on OSU is a question.

[Hematite]

In what round does Arden Key become a possible target for Pace? I understand there are concerns about his character but he knows how to get to the QB. NFL.com compares him to Willie Young. If his head is on straight, he could be a gem.

[thunderspirit]

In what round does Arden Key become a possible target for Pace? I understand there are concerns about his character but he knows how to get to the QB. NFL.com compares him to Willie Young. If his head is on straight, he could be a gem.

My answer would be: never.

I am not Ryan Pace, however.

[G08]

In what round does Arden Key become a possible target for Pace? I understand there are concerns about his character but he knows how to get to the QB. NFL.com compares him to Willie Young. If his head is on straight, he could be a gem.

I think with his character concerns Pace probably doesn't even have him on his board.

[bearsfaninaz]

What do you guys think of Josh Sweat and Lorenzo Carter? They are mid tier guys in case we lose out on some of the top ones if go different direction with our first pick.

[G08]

What do you guys think of Josh Sweat and Lorenzo Carter? They are mid tier guys in case we lose out on some of the top ones if go different direction with our first pick.

I haven't dug into either one yet, maybe I'll do that tonight if I find the time. Some people love Carter.

[Mikefive]

It seems like we may re-sign Lamarr Houston or someone similar, making our OLB group...

Floyd, Houston, Acho, Isaiah Irving, Howard Jones

Given that, it seems possible that he'll bite at Tremaine Edmunds with pick 8, although some mocks have him falling a bit if we don't take him. If Pace isn't top 10 excited about trying to make an edge guy out of a player who hasn't really played that role, I could really see Pace open to the possibility of trading down and out of 8, getting another R2 or R3 pick and taking pass rushers in R1 AND R2.

Example...
Baker Mayfield is there when we're on the clock. Arizona signed Sam Bradford, but knows he can't rely on Bradford and needs an investment in the future of the position. So they send us picks 15 and 47 in return for 8 and one of our R4 choices and take Mayfield with pick 8.

At 15, we should have a shot at maybe 2 out of the 3 of Edmunds, Davenport and Landry. (I don't view Key as a character that would interest Pace in R1.) Almost certainly 1 of those will be there and we'll get one.

Then in R2, at 39 or 47, you nab another edge guy to fill out our group (opinions vary on values and fits in our defense, so I'm not going to name names here), provide a hedge for our R1 selection and suddenly go from a rather ho hum group to a position of youth and strength. And next year, Houston who is not the best fit in our defense and on the wrong side of 30, can ride off into the sunset and give us back some cap room.

That seems like quite a rational plan to shore up a key position where we really need to get better.

[mmmc_35]

Carter is interesting because his skill set is still very much developing. He is a smooth athlete not overly sudden. I don't think he will ever have a ton of power to his game but physically can bend and get up field. I think he is a guy you can mold into a pretty good player.

Sweat has the tools but the flaws are fairly pronounced. Injuries the big one. It takes him a bit of space to get moving and he is fairly narrow. Uses his long arms well. And is flexible. I think he has all the talent and is less work then Carter, but medical is why he isn't a first rounder.

[G08]

This EDGE class fucking sucks.

If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.

What do we do?

[mmmc_35]

Athletically it doesn't suck. It's probably the deepest athletic group in the 5 years i have kept records.

The group though as a whole has questing marks. I could see a bunch of guys doing well in the league with development.

A guy like Davenport could become a phenom or out of the league in 4 years.

[G08]

Athletically it doesn't suck. It's probably the deepest athletic group in the 5 years i have kept records.

The group though as a whole has questing marks. I could see a bunch of guys doing well in the league with development.

A guy like Davenport could become a phenom or out of the league in 4 years.

That's what I mean... I don't see anyone that jumps out at me and it's arguably our biggest need right now.

Can any of you see Landry as another Leonard Floyd (save for height/arm length)?

[Adipost]

This EDGE class fucking sucks.

If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.

What do we do?

Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???

[G08]

This EDGE class fucking sucks.

If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.

What do we do?

Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???

Davenport is a freak, no question about it, I just wish what I was seeing was done against legitimate competition, ya know? I don't know anything about his personality or drive etc etc so right now, in my mind, he's an athletic freak that crushed lesser competition.

The other thing is I think 8 is too rich for him and I don't think he'll be there in round 2.

[cblaz11]

I'd take Landry in the 1st and Sweat in the second.

We're good at CB, DT, MLB, WR, QB, RB, S, TE....for the most part.

I say load up on edge rushers!

[Adipost]

This EDGE class fucking sucks.

If we don't think Edmunds can make the transition, I really don't know what we're going to do. I think 8 is too rich for Landry (then again, I never thought Pace would draft Leonard Floyd at #9) and the round 2 talent all come with warts.

What do we do?

Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???

Davenport is a freak, no question about it, I just wish what I was seeing was done against legitimate competition, ya know? I don't know anything about his personality or drive etc etc so right now, in my mind, he's an athletic freak that crushed lesser competition.

The other thing is I think 8 is too rich for him and I don't think he'll be there in round 2.

What happened to the like feature?

[Hematite]

I'd take Landry in the 1st and Sweat in the second.

We're good at CB, DT, MLB, WR, QB, RB, S, TE....for the most part.

I say load up on edge rushers!

With Sweats injury history (knee), there is no way I want him in the 2nd round. If he's still available in the 4th, I'm all in! High risk/reward draft prospect in Sweat.

[thunderspirit]

Why do you think Vic Fangio can develop a raw talent such as Tremaine Edmunds, and go as far as move him to a new position, but can’t develop a raw talent such as Davenport who is already a pass rusher???

Davenport is a freak, no question about it, I just wish what I was seeing was done against legitimate competition, ya know? I don't know anything about his personality or drive etc etc so right now, in my mind, he's an athletic freak that crushed lesser competition.

The other thing is I think 8 is too rich for him and I don't think he'll be there in round 2.

Davenport did okay at the Senior Bowl against legitimate competition. (Not great, mind you, but okay.)

#8 is higher than I'd like too, but he's got elite athletic traits — the kind you typically don't find in the later rounds. He's not a sure thing, but isn't that why you hire coaches you think can teach?

[Mikefive]

Having just posted my prescription for the Bears to trade back and take 2 edge guys, I'm starting to think that the pass rush group--despite the question marks after Chubb--is going to get overdrafted, simply because of the dearth of pass rush options in free agency. If you're a team like the Bears, Packers and others who need to upgrade one of the most important positions on defense, you might roll the dice and reach for one without another way to get one. Teams trading up for one--even with question marks--is certainly possible this year. So maybe I'm talking myself out of trading down very far.

[G08]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to be Tremaine Edmunds. At worst, he's an elite talent at MLB (keyword: talent). At best? A versatile EDGE rusher that not only can get after the passer but can drop into coverage and carry RBs up the sidelines with ease. That's the move if I'm calling the shots.

[mmmc_35]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to be Tremaine Edmunds. At worst, he's an elite talent at MLB (keyword: talent). At best? A versatile EDGE rusher that not only can get after the passer but can drop into coverage and carry RBs up the sidelines with ease. That's the move if I'm calling the shots.

I completely agree. Ever sense Wab mentioned him, he has been the guy I think fits.

[G08]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to be Tremaine Edmunds. At worst, he's an elite talent at MLB (keyword: talent). At best? A versatile EDGE rusher that not only can get after the passer but can drop into coverage and carry RBs up the sidelines with ease. That's the move if I'm calling the shots.

I completely agree. Ever sense Wab mentioned him, he has been the guy I think fits.

Yup, and just like the WRs adding him pushes everyone down a level.

Floyd - Starter
Acho - Starter in base
Edmunds - Pass rusher in sub packages
Lynch - depth

[IotaNet]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to be Tremaine Edmunds. At worst, he's an elite talent at MLB (keyword: talent). At best? A versatile EDGE rusher that not only can get after the passer but can drop into coverage and carry RBs up the sidelines with ease. That's the move if I'm calling the shots.

I completely agree. Ever sense Wab mentioned him, he has been the guy I think fits.

Yup, and just like the WRs adding him pushes everyone down a level.

Floyd - Starter
Acho - Starter in base
Edmunds - Pass rusher in sub packages
Lynch - depth

sign me up. I see this kid as a weapon for Fangio to train and deploy in fiendish ways.

Me want.

[Hematite]

I'm kinda intriqued by Ja'von Rolland Jones in the 6th round if he is still available. He's not gonna be a guy that can be effective every down, but in sub packages when its time to get the QB, he may have value!

He played for a small school but was a sack machine. Gem or shiny rock?

[crueltyabc]

Just watched Hubbard vs Iowa and was not impressed. He uses his hands to keep blockers off his body but it's not exactly a great bull rush, and his speed around the edge is not impressive. He looked OK for the first quarter then his team started getting spanked and he couldn't make a play. Shows good effort I guess?

I hate this group.

[G08]

I hate this group.

Every single one of them has flaws and it's annoying. More and more I'm thinking at 8 you have to go EDGE. It will suck if Edmunds is gone, but if we have to reach for Landry then so freaking be it. Dude has a ton of flaws, but so did Floyd and Pace traded up for that dude.

[crueltyabc]

I was thinking about this when posting in the Top 8 thread, and I kinda think the opposite of your reasoning. If Chubb (obv) and Edmunds are gone, I think we fill another need with a high floor player at 8 (Nelson, Smith) and kick the can on OLB. We can draft a situational rusher guy later (4th) and accept that Acho is starting in 2018. Maybe Lynch or the 4th rounder rookie can add 5-6 sacks and Floyd gets 8. Or we trade down and get two of these questionable EDGE guys and hope that one works out. We need two starters from this draft and can't afford to whiff on #8.

EDIT: I'm assuming that only EDGE trash will be left in the second and we'll end up drafting OL or WR

[Mikefive]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to be Tremaine Edmunds. At worst, he's an elite talent at MLB (keyword: talent). At best? A versatile EDGE rusher that not only can get after the passer but can drop into coverage and carry RBs up the sidelines with ease. That's the move if I'm calling the shots.

I completely agree. Ever sense Wab mentioned him, he has been the guy I think fits.

Yup, and just like the WRs adding him pushes everyone down a level.

Floyd - Starter
Acho - Starter in base
Edmunds - Pass rusher in sub packages
Lynch - depth

sign me up. I see this kid as a weapon for Fangio to train and deploy in fiendish ways.

Me want.

That's how I see it as well. Even if we play him inside in some packages, Fangio has made superstars out of inside guys who can go get the QB. He works because of Fangio's creativity.

[IotaNet]

The more I think about it, the more I believe it has to be Tremaine Edmunds. At worst, he's an elite talent at MLB (keyword: talent). At best? A versatile EDGE rusher that not only can get after the passer but can drop into coverage and carry RBs up the sidelines with ease. That's the move if I'm calling the shots.

I completely agree. Ever sense Wab mentioned him, he has been the guy I think fits.

Yup, and just like the WRs adding him pushes everyone down a level.

Floyd - Starter
Acho - Starter in base
Edmunds - Pass rusher in sub packages
Lynch - depth

sign me up. I see this kid as a weapon for Fangio to train and deploy in fiendish ways.

Me want.

That's how I see it as well ... He works because of Fangio's creativity.

Exactly.

That's the same reason we don't have to automatically choose Quenton Nelson at 8. Harry Hiestand is an OL guru and as long as we draft someone with reasonable skill/talent (Could Mike McGlinchey make it to #39?), Harry will absolutely coach him up.

[wab]

If Edmunds and Nelson are gone and the Bears aren’t comfortable with Davenport...I’m good with Vea or Bryan at 8. Bryan may be a stretch but I think he goes top 12 by the time it’s all said and done. Hard to ignore the JJ Watt comparisons.