EDGE Prospect Talk: Tremaine Edmunds

[UOK]

Doing more research on Edmunds, and I think the combine hurt his stock. I believe he'll free fall into picks 11-15 because teams are going to get cold feet.

Film analysis has lowered his standing in my mind, and I'm guessing that same feeling of being underwhelmed may spook some GMs who are picking in the top 10.

[G08]

Doing more research on Edmunds, and I think the combine hurt his stock. I believe he'll free fall into picks 11-15 because teams are going to get cold feet.

You'll have to elaborate here... haven't heard much about the combine but by all accounts he crushed his Pro Day doing positional drills.

[UOK]

Doing more research on Edmunds, and I think the combine hurt his stock. I believe he'll free fall into picks 11-15 because teams are going to get cold feet.

You'll have to elaborate here... haven't heard much about the combine but by all accounts he crushed his Pro Day doing positional drills.

This is to my untrained eye. I was watching Edmunds pro day and the main thing I saw was an insanely athletic kid who is really sloppy with his feet.

Watching his highlights is great, but I get the sense he's more lucky than good. Needs a shitload of refinement.

The Film Room does a nice breakdown of what concerns me about his game:

[video][/video]

[Atkins&Rebel]

I think the Redskins will be the lowest he slips, on just potential alone.

[cblaz11]

One thing is certain, after all the back and fourth on him, it's going to be fun to see where this kids career goes.

[G08]

One thing is certain, after all the back and fourth on him, it's going to be fun to see where this kids career goes.

One of my favorite damn things about the draft process -- you get to track and follow their careers.

[mmmc_35]

I never said he can't? Way easier to be an edge rusher than MLB. Just don't see the reason why?

I and others have suggested just situationally initially.

He can cover, and blitz up the gut from base. Like Fangio used Bowman. He can line up pretty much anywhere in packages.

[G08]

This is to my untrained eye. I was watching Edmunds pro day and the main thing I saw was an insanely athletic kid who is really sloppy with his feet.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0 ... ne-workout" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't see sloppy feet here, if I had one complaint it's toward the end where he looked a little stiff flipping his hips.

Outside of that, for a man his size I thought he looked outstanding starting/stopping and changing directions. Fluid.

[Adipost]

Here's Daniel Jeremiah's take, FWIW:

Edmunds has a unique blend of size, length and athleticism. He primarily lines up off the line of scrimmage, but does get some work rushing off the edge. Against the run, he is quick to key, fill and finish as a tackler. He has rare lateral range and collects tackles from sideline to sideline. The former Hokie flashes the ability to shoot his hands and play off blocks, but this is one area where he can improve. Against the pass, he easily mirrors running backs and tight ends; there are even examples of him matching up and redirecting vs. slot receivers. He offers tremendous upside as an edge rusher, where he can dip/rip and bend around the edge. Overall, Edmunds has All-Pro ability. His upside is outrageous.

Hes a guy that already struggles getting off blocks in the open field, so now you wanna have him try to beat OT’s. You’d be taking away his 2 biggest attributes, coverage and pursuit, and putting him in a situation where he has shown to struggle.

And that last part Jeremiah mentioned is either something he saw in practice or just completely made up. The few times Edmunds actually took on an OT 1 on 1 against the pass, he was completely stonewalled every single time.

This is probably the closest he’s ever gotten to a QB after taking on an OT 1 on 1...

[Middleguard]

Every evaluater I've read mentions that Edmunds often looks lost. Some ascribe it to his youth, but he played three years in college in 32 games (and young people learn better than old people). Some suggest he wasn't taking football seriously(?), but others question his intelligence. Bears are assembling a team, O and D, which will require IQ.

[Umbali]

For me when I think of Edmunds I dont worry too much if he ends up being a great ILB vs an Edge guy. It breaks my heart in many pieces when a team runs up the middle or dominates us because we dont have good MLB play or ILB play. I think he would be a safe pick if we went that way, we just have to be flexible with our expectations.

[cblaz11]

Here's Daniel Jeremiah's take, FWIW:

Edmunds has a unique blend of size, length and athleticism. He primarily lines up off the line of scrimmage, but does get some work rushing off the edge. Against the run, he is quick to key, fill and finish as a tackler. He has rare lateral range and collects tackles from sideline to sideline. The former Hokie flashes the ability to shoot his hands and play off blocks, but this is one area where he can improve. Against the pass, he easily mirrors running backs and tight ends; there are even examples of him matching up and redirecting vs. slot receivers. He offers tremendous upside as an edge rusher, where he can dip/rip and bend around the edge. Overall, Edmunds has All-Pro ability. His upside is outrageous.

Hes a guy that already struggles getting off blocks in the open field, so now you wanna have him try to beat OT’s. You’d be taking away his 2 biggest attributes, coverage and pursuit, and putting him in a situation where he has shown to struggle.

And that last part Jeremiah mentioned is either something he saw in practice or just completely made up. The few times Edmunds actually took on an OT 1 on 1 against the pass, he was completely stonewalled every single time.

This is probably the closest he’s ever gotten to a QB after taking on an OT 1 on 1...

This..is exactly why I say he can't be an edge rusher. That..looks exactly like Urlacher trying to blitz the edge. Neither of them are built for it. The bend, the leverage, the shiftiness, he doesn't have it.

Good MLB prospect, bad edge prospect

[mmmc_35]

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

[G08]

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

I'm staying out of it. It's one clip.

If Vic Fangio can get Christian Jones to find success in his defense, he can get Tremaine Edmunds. I don't care if that's at ILB or OLB; there's a role for someone like him on your football team.

[Rusty Trombagent]

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

I'm staying out of it. It's one clip.

If Vic Fangio can get Christian Jones to find success in his defense, he can get Tremaine Edmunds. I don't care if that's at ILB or OLB; there's a role for someone like him on your football team.

Ironically the Christian Jones comp is why i kind of cant get behind this pic.

As middleguard sort of alluded to a few posts up, the more I watch this guy the more it just feels like he's got bad instincts. And trying to teach a linebacker instincts is like trying to teach a qb accuracy: It usually doesnt work out. Tremaine could so easily end up a Christian Jones kind of player, athletic freak but you still have to gameplan to cover up his weaknesses, and for the number 8 pick... i dunno. I'm nervous.

[thunderspirit]

Every pick comes with risks. In the top half of Round 1, you're drafting elite athletic traits and expecting your coaches to put the players with those elite athletic traits in a good position to succeed.

If Edmunds is the pick, he won't be expected to call defensive signals if he lines up inside -- he'll be alongside Trevathan who will do that. Whether he's inside or outside, his job at first will be to read his keys and run to the ball.

Rookies make mistakes. You expect he learns from them as he gains NFL experience, but the point is that he's not going to be perfect; no player is. His speed, athleticism, and range suggest the potential to be a dominant player. You bet on your coaching to help bring it out of him.

[cblaz11]

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.

[cblaz11]

Every pick comes with risks. In the top half of Round 1, you're drafting elite athletic traits and expecting your coaches to put the players with those elite athletic traits in a good position to succeed.

If Edmunds is the pick, he won't be expected to call defensive signals if he lines up inside -- he'll be alongside Trevathan who will do that. Whether he's inside or outside, his job at first will be to read his keys and run to the ball.

Rookies make mistakes. You expect he learns from them as he gains NFL experience, but the point is that he's not going to be perfect; no player is. His speed, athleticism, and range suggest the potential to be a dominant player. You bet on your coaching to help bring it out of him.

Drafting elite athletic traits in round one gets you in trouble. You draft players with high football IQ and elite athletic traits. There are plaenty of guys who have elite traits but are just ok at football because they don't have a feel for the game. Hester for instance, should have been an all pro WR, CB, or RB based on his elite traits, a great player as a returner, the best ever, but he couldn't play a position because he didn't have the head for it.

[G08]

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.

I hope you realize Harold Landry (I'm invoking his name because I think you're looking for Landry's movements in this gif, I could be wrong) would have been flattened like a pancake on the same blitz. Edmunds wasn't attempting to bend the edge or anything of that ilk on that one isolated rush -- he was lined up two yards off the ball, not in a 3 point stance ready to fire.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield". If you're talking about hand usage, then yes in this one clip he didn't even attempt it. If you're talking about hip flexibility, then I'd say watch any other game of his or just watch his combine/Pro Day drills and you'll see a very, very loose hipped kid. He does thinks young men his size should not be able to do.

[mmmc_35]

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.

For a kid who isn't asked to play on as an edge rusher your expectation of him is unrealistic. We are going to overly break down a 3 second clip. He gets up field. Gets the tackles shoulders turned. Edmunds has his arm inside.

The pass is from shotgun and thrown on the 3rd step. Right as Edmunds needs to turn the corner the ball is out. So we don't see him do it.

Hand usage shouldn't be refined because he plays ILB.

Flexibility is seen all over the field. This clip is to short to determine anything. However if the kid can cover the slot I bet he has the hips to turn the corner and lean in to a tackle.

Now I get your point. Edmunds clip doesn't look like Von Miller below. Miller fires out of his stance, bats the hands out of the way. Dips into contact. Gets his arm the outside and truly bends the corner. I think Edmunds has those types of traits but not the technique.

[UOK]

While I don't like Edmunds much, I feel like it's a little unfair to overload on criticism of his technique. He's 19. You're drafting him so that he's Von Miller by the time he's 22 or 23.

Problem is that a lot of fans are used to Von Millers being Von Miller within a few games of their NFL career. Edmunds is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) prospect to be looked to go this high.

[G08]

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.

For a kid who isn't asked to play on as an edge rusher your expectation of him is unrealistic. We are going to overly break down a 3 second clip. He gets up field. Gets the tackles shoulders turned. Edmunds has his arm inside.

The pass is from shotgun and thrown on the 3rd step. Right as Edmunds needs to turn the corner the ball is out. So we don't see him do it.

Hand usage shouldn't be refined because he plays ILB.

Flexibility is seen all over the field. This clip is to short to determine anything. However if the kid can cover the slot I bet he has the hips to turn the corner and lean in to a tackle.

Now I get your point. Edmunds clip doesn't look like Von Miller below. Miller fires out of his stance, bats the hands out of the way. Dips into contact. Gets his arm the outside and truly bends the corner. I think Edmunds has those types of traits but not the technique.

Selfishly, this is why I'm pissed he didn't run a 3-cone at the Combine or on his Pro Day. Those numbers add a lot of clarity to questions that I have about him.

Nobody knows what this kid is going to be as a pure EDGE rusher, it's all about projection. I see prototypical size and arm length, elite athleticism, and versatility when I turn on his "tape". If I'm Pace I bring him in on a private visit, have Fangio and his defensive staff coach him up and go from there. If they pound the table for the kid, it's a no brainer. If they don't like him for what they want to do in this defense, move on.

Not a lot of 6'4" 253 lbs dudes that move like he does (Planet Theory), I take that at 8 if Nelson/Fitzpatrick are not there.

[G08]

While I don't like Edmunds much, I feel like it's a little unfair to overload on criticism of his technique. He's 19. You're drafting him so that he's Von Miller by the time he's 22 or 23.

Problem is that a lot of fans are used to Von Millers being Von Miller within a few games of their NFL career. Edmunds is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) prospect to be looked to go this high.

The kicker is that some fans are bagging on him not having "tape" available of him as an EDGE rusher. You can't provide that if he didn't do it that often! Projection. That's the word of the day:

pro·jec·tion
prəˈjekSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
"plans based on projections of slow but positive growth"
synonyms: forecast, prediction, prognosis, outlook, expectation, estimate
"a sales projection"


I hated Leonard Floyd because I thought he was too thin and weak at the point of attack. One full NFL off-season later and I realized that John Fox was right when he said you can always make them bigger and stronger, but you can't make them faster/quicker. This kid just needs technique work and reps, IMO.

[Hematite]

While I don't like Edmunds much, I feel like it's a little unfair to overload on criticism of his technique. He's 19. You're drafting him so that he's Von Miller by the time he's 22 or 23.

Problem is that a lot of fans are used to Von Millers being Von Miller within a few games of their NFL career. Edmunds is one of the youngest (if not the youngest) prospect to be looked to go this high.

The kicker is that some fans are bagging on him not having "tape" available of him as an EDGE rusher. You can't provide that if he didn't do it that often! Projection. That's the word of the day:

pro·jec·tion
prəˈjekSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
an estimate or forecast of a future situation or trend based on a study of present ones.
"plans based on projections of slow but positive growth"
synonyms: forecast, prediction, prognosis, outlook, expectation, estimate
"a sales projection"


I hated Leonard Floyd because I thought he was too thin and weak at the point of attack. One full NFL off-season later and I realized that John Fox was right when he said you can always make them bigger and stronger, but you can't make them faster/quicker. This kid just needs technique work and reps, IMO.

I get your point, but indirectly quoting John Fox borders on BFO treason. Tread lightly!

[G08]

Here's a scouting report on someone that I believe is a solid comp to Tremaine Edmunds... any guesses?

STRENGTHS
Exceptional take-off speed, acceleration and closing burst. Makes plays effortlessly in back-side lateral pursuit. Outstanding recovery quickness to make plays (when he is out of position). Explosive striker. Can produce "wow" plays when he triggers quickly or releases cleanly and has developed a reputation for knocking quarterbacks out of games

WEAKNESSES
Developing instincts -- late to locate the ball and too easily fooled by play-action and misdirection. Motor runs hot and cold -- does not always apply himself. Can be locked down too easily when engaged -- unrefined hand use. Lacks variety of pass-rush moves and relies too much on natural speed. Average eyes, anticipation and awareness in coverage — marginal feel. Average base strength -- moved off the ball too easily by tight ends (plays tall). Needs more time in the weight room -- 15 bench-press reps were tied for the fewest among linebackers at the combine.

DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 (top 10)

BOTTOM LINE
A highly disruptive, athletic specimen with the pass-rush potential to effortlessly emerge as a double-digit sack producer. Is far from a finished product and his best football is still ahead of him, yet he plays the game with more of an offensive temperament and could require some patience. Is the type of rare athlete that could even contribute as an offensive playmaker once he learns to grasp defensive concepts and the game slows down for him.

[Hematite]

Here's a scouting report on someone that I believe is a solid comp to Tremaine Edmunds... any guesses?

STRENGTHS
Exceptional take-off speed, acceleration and closing burst. Makes plays effortlessly in back-side lateral pursuit. Outstanding recovery quickness to make plays (when he is out of position). Explosive striker. Can produce "wow" plays when he triggers quickly or releases cleanly and has developed a reputation for knocking quarterbacks out of games

WEAKNESSES
Developing instincts -- late to locate the ball and too easily fooled by play-action and misdirection. Motor runs hot and cold -- does not always apply himself. Can be locked down too easily when engaged -- unrefined hand use. Lacks variety of pass-rush moves and relies too much on natural speed. Average eyes, anticipation and awareness in coverage — marginal feel. Average base strength -- moved off the ball too easily by tight ends (plays tall). Needs more time in the weight room -- 15 bench-press reps were tied for the fewest among linebackers at the combine.

DRAFT PROJECTION Round 1 (top 10)

BOTTOM LINE
A highly disruptive, athletic specimen with the pass-rush potential to effortlessly emerge as a double-digit sack producer. Is far from a finished product and his best football is still ahead of him, yet he plays the game with more of an offensive temperament and could require some patience. Is the type of rare athlete that could even contribute as an offensive playmaker once he learns to grasp defensive concepts and the game slows down for him.

Well he's been compared to Urlacher and Barr. I can't imagine that is an Urlacher scouting report.

[G08]

^ nice work!

[Hematite]

The measurables between Barr and Edmunds are freakishly similar. Edmunds actually ran the 40 faster and benched more (at 19 BTW). Then looking at the scouting report you posted, again they are eerily similar.

So you got me looking at Barr highlights from college and the pro's. If Vic Fangio can turn Edmunds into Anthony Barr 2.0, no questions asked, draft him!!

[G08]

The measurables between Barr and Edmunds are freakishly similar. Edmunds actually ran the 40 faster and benched more (at 19 BTW). Then looking at the scouting report you posted, again they are eerily similar.

So you got me looking at Barr highlights from college and the pro's. If Vic Fangio can turn Edmunds into Anthony Barr 2.0, no questions asked, draft him!!

That's what I'm saying; look at what he did for Christian freaking Jones (not exactly the brightest bulb in the room).

Bring the kid in for a visit, let Fangio and his staff meet with him, and if he says he wants this kid you go get him.

[G08]

Another comp if you're looking at size, length, youth, and versatility: