BearsFansOnline.com

McCblaz wrote:

G08 wrote:Nelson is a luxury pick that we can't afford right now, IMO. I hope the kid goes before us at #8.

Tremaine Edmunds is my pick all the way; at minimum you have an elite talent at ILB (keyword: talent). I trust Fangio to treat him just like Aldon Smith during his 14 sack rookie season -- just sick him after the QB and occasionally sprinkle in him dropping into coverage. Kid's a freak.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still want him at 8!?

Absolutely. I'm not keeping him at ILB in my scenario, though. He's strictly a pass rusher starting off.

All that video did was make me want him more.

G08 wrote:

McCblaz wrote:

G08 wrote:Nelson is a luxury pick that we can't afford right now, IMO. I hope the kid goes before us at #8.

Tremaine Edmunds is my pick all the way; at minimum you have an elite talent at ILB (keyword: talent). I trust Fangio to treat him just like Aldon Smith during his 14 sack rookie season -- just sick him after the QB and occasionally sprinkle in him dropping into coverage. Kid's a freak.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still want him at 8!?

Absolutely. I'm not keeping him at ILB in my scenario, though. He's strictly a pass rusher starting off.

Dude, you’re crazy with you’re Edge projection. I havent seen 1 play in his entire 2017 tape where Edmunds beat an OT one on one for a sack or even a hurry. Not one. Your projecting him as a pass rusher based solely on his length, and you’re just ignoring every single second of his tape.

Adipost wrote:

G08 wrote:

McCblaz wrote:

G08 wrote:Nelson is a luxury pick that we can't afford right now, IMO. I hope the kid goes before us at #8.

Tremaine Edmunds is my pick all the way; at minimum you have an elite talent at ILB (keyword: talent). I trust Fangio to treat him just like Aldon Smith during his 14 sack rookie season -- just sick him after the QB and occasionally sprinkle in him dropping into coverage. Kid's a freak.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still want him at 8!?

Absolutely. I'm not keeping him at ILB in my scenario, though. He's strictly a pass rusher starting off.

Dude, you’re crazy with you’re Edge projection. I havent seen 1 play in his entire 2017 tape where Edmunds beat an OT one on one for a sack or even a hurry. Not one. Your projecting him as a pass rusher based solely on his length, and you’re just ignoring every single second of his tape.

I'm not saying that he couldn't develop that talent. I don't know. But Pace/Nagy/Fangio better be certain that he can develop into a legitimate pass rusher because there isn't many chances to get that position right in this draft. It's do or die in the first round IMO.

Why is everyone wanting to see this kid moved to edge rusher?

I see a MLB that can cover any TE in the game physically, crap and most tall WR's.
The only part of his game that he needs to work on is discipline. That is what all college players need to learn when coming out.

In my 40 years of watching and understanding football one thing remains the same. Freaks make your team better. Forget the position. If this kid has the mental aspect and the determination to be great then he will. Over 100 tackles and 5 sacks from the middle is outstanding. Match that with his 4.55 speed and his size and why would you ever wanna make him a one trick pony?

Not to mention we will have Floyd on one side and a group of guys on the other.

Just imagine Trevathon and Edmunds manning the middle of the field? That will give OC's in time nightmares. Not to mention Vic would have to be giddy as hell being able to blitz from all over the field knowing the speed that is out there.

I went through these arguments when Urlacher came out. Guess we go through them again.

A couple years ago I almost broke my TV cuase we didn't draft Donald. Just to be safe I am gonna hook my ole boob tube just in case we do something stupid.

Only 4 guys I want in the first round.
1. Edmunds
2a. Nelson- perhaps the safest pick in the draft.
2b. Payne- get off the Vea bandwagon. As good as he is, he is not as good as Da'Ron Payne. Just look at his name. Da (DaBears) and bring on the Payne. Not to mention he has a motor that never stops. Think of a bigger Aaron Donald. Oh yeah he benched 460lbs in high school. Did I mention he is only 20?
2c. Ward- Robinson puts in one good year, very scary. Ward has done it for a short minute. Forget edge rushers CB's are very hard to find later though not impossible. CB with those kinda of cover skills and sub 4.4 speed are even harder to find.

Damn I want the Bills two number ones so bad. I would literally trade all our picks to get Payne and Edmunds in round one and call the draft over. But that is a pipe dream.

Fine Edmunds clearly can't be an edge rusher. He didn't do it in college.

So I vote to make him an A gap Blitzer. He dominated shooting the A gap. We will name it a new position. A-BOMB (Agap Blitzing One Man Berserker). We can design a whole new defense around it.

It will be a 3-4 base with one heavy and one coverage rush backers. A 4I who can split a double. A 5T who can eat up a blocker. A NT to get in the face of an interior. And the A-BOMB ready to destroy shit.

What's nice is the A-BOMB can ascend to not just shooting the A gap, he can also develop into the F-BOMB (Free Blitzing One Man Berserker)

I never said he can't? Way easier to be an edge rusher than MLB. Just don't see the reason why?

As a MLB prospect I like him, not at 8 though. I'd take Roquan over him. He's caught out of position so often, in the pros, that will get exposed. It will get coached up also, but my concern is that he doesn't have natural instincts. That, along with the inability to be where your supposed to be could be a bad combination.

Again, if we take him as a MLB I don't hate it..

Adipost wrote:

G08 wrote:

McCblaz wrote:

G08 wrote:Nelson is a luxury pick that we can't afford right now, IMO. I hope the kid goes before us at #8.

Tremaine Edmunds is my pick all the way; at minimum you have an elite talent at ILB (keyword: talent). I trust Fangio to treat him just like Aldon Smith during his 14 sack rookie season -- just sick him after the QB and occasionally sprinkle in him dropping into coverage. Kid's a freak.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Still want him at 8!?

Absolutely. I'm not keeping him at ILB in my scenario, though. He's strictly a pass rusher starting off.

Dude, you’re crazy with you’re Edge projection. I havent seen 1 play in his entire 2017 tape where Edmunds beat an OT one on one for a sack or even a hurry. Not one. Your projecting him as a pass rusher based solely on his length, and you’re just ignoring every single second of his tape.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it isn't possible, Adi. His size, length and burst is outstanding -- there's a reason he has been compared to Brian Urlacher in some regards. If the Bears truly are interested in him, you have to bring him in for a private workout and make sure he can learn what you want him to do.

I'll maintain that at worst you have an elite talent at ILB. Trevathan and Kwiatkoski come out of contract after the 2019 season and ILB plays a huge role in Fangio's defense. To me, Edmunds at 8 is a no-brainer.

Here's Daniel Jeremiah's take, FWIW:

Edmunds has a unique blend of size, length and athleticism. He primarily lines up off the line of scrimmage, but does get some work rushing off the edge. Against the run, he is quick to key, fill and finish as a tackler. He has rare lateral range and collects tackles from sideline to sideline. The former Hokie flashes the ability to shoot his hands and play off blocks, but this is one area where he can improve. Against the pass, he easily mirrors running backs and tight ends; there are even examples of him matching up and redirecting vs. slot receivers. He offers tremendous upside as an edge rusher, where he can dip/rip and bend around the edge. Overall, Edmunds has All-Pro ability. His upside is outrageous.

Doing more research on Edmunds, and I think the combine hurt his stock. I believe he'll free fall into picks 11-15 because teams are going to get cold feet.

Film analysis has lowered his standing in my mind, and I'm guessing that same feeling of being underwhelmed may spook some GMs who are picking in the top 10.

UOK wrote:Doing more research on Edmunds, and I think the combine hurt his stock. I believe he'll free fall into picks 11-15 because teams are going to get cold feet.

You'll have to elaborate here... haven't heard much about the combine but by all accounts he crushed his Pro Day doing positional drills.

G08 wrote:

UOK wrote:Doing more research on Edmunds, and I think the combine hurt his stock. I believe he'll free fall into picks 11-15 because teams are going to get cold feet.

You'll have to elaborate here... haven't heard much about the combine but by all accounts he crushed his Pro Day doing positional drills.

This is to my untrained eye. I was watching Edmunds pro day and the main thing I saw was an insanely athletic kid who is really sloppy with his feet.

Watching his highlights is great, but I get the sense he's more lucky than good. Needs a shitload of refinement.

The Film Room does a nice breakdown of what concerns me about his game:

[video][/video]

I think the Redskins will be the lowest he slips, on just potential alone.

One thing is certain, after all the back and fourth on him, it's going to be fun to see where this kids career goes.

cblaz11 wrote:One thing is certain, after all the back and fourth on him, it's going to be fun to see where this kids career goes.

One of my favorite damn things about the draft process -- you get to track and follow their careers.

EricTighe wrote:I never said he can't? Way easier to be an edge rusher than MLB. Just don't see the reason why?

I and others have suggested just situationally initially.

He can cover, and blitz up the gut from base. Like Fangio used Bowman. He can line up pretty much anywhere in packages.

UOK wrote:
This is to my untrained eye. I was watching Edmunds pro day and the main thing I saw was an insanely athletic kid who is really sloppy with his feet.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine/0 ... ne-workout" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't see sloppy feet here, if I had one complaint it's toward the end where he looked a little stiff flipping his hips.

Outside of that, for a man his size I thought he looked outstanding starting/stopping and changing directions. Fluid.

G08 wrote:Here's Daniel Jeremiah's take, FWIW:

Edmunds has a unique blend of size, length and athleticism. He primarily lines up off the line of scrimmage, but does get some work rushing off the edge. Against the run, he is quick to key, fill and finish as a tackler. He has rare lateral range and collects tackles from sideline to sideline. The former Hokie flashes the ability to shoot his hands and play off blocks, but this is one area where he can improve. Against the pass, he easily mirrors running backs and tight ends; there are even examples of him matching up and redirecting vs. slot receivers. He offers tremendous upside as an edge rusher, where he can dip/rip and bend around the edge. Overall, Edmunds has All-Pro ability. His upside is outrageous.

Hes a guy that already struggles getting off blocks in the open field, so now you wanna have him try to beat OT’s. You’d be taking away his 2 biggest attributes, coverage and pursuit, and putting him in a situation where he has shown to struggle.

And that last part Jeremiah mentioned is either something he saw in practice or just completely made up. The few times Edmunds actually took on an OT 1 on 1 against the pass, he was completely stonewalled every single time.

This is probably the closest he’s ever gotten to a QB after taking on an OT 1 on 1...

Every evaluater I've read mentions that Edmunds often looks lost. Some ascribe it to his youth, but he played three years in college in 32 games (and young people learn better than old people). Some suggest he wasn't taking football seriously(?), but others question his intelligence. Bears are assembling a team, O and D, which will require IQ.

For me when I think of Edmunds I dont worry too much if he ends up being a great ILB vs an Edge guy. It breaks my heart in many pieces when a team runs up the middle or dominates us because we dont have good MLB play or ILB play. I think he would be a safe pick if we went that way, we just have to be flexible with our expectations.

Adipost wrote:

G08 wrote:Here's Daniel Jeremiah's take, FWIW:

Edmunds has a unique blend of size, length and athleticism. He primarily lines up off the line of scrimmage, but does get some work rushing off the edge. Against the run, he is quick to key, fill and finish as a tackler. He has rare lateral range and collects tackles from sideline to sideline. The former Hokie flashes the ability to shoot his hands and play off blocks, but this is one area where he can improve. Against the pass, he easily mirrors running backs and tight ends; there are even examples of him matching up and redirecting vs. slot receivers. He offers tremendous upside as an edge rusher, where he can dip/rip and bend around the edge. Overall, Edmunds has All-Pro ability. His upside is outrageous.

Hes a guy that already struggles getting off blocks in the open field, so now you wanna have him try to beat OT’s. You’d be taking away his 2 biggest attributes, coverage and pursuit, and putting him in a situation where he has shown to struggle.

And that last part Jeremiah mentioned is either something he saw in practice or just completely made up. The few times Edmunds actually took on an OT 1 on 1 against the pass, he was completely stonewalled every single time.

This is probably the closest he’s ever gotten to a QB after taking on an OT 1 on 1...

This..is exactly why I say he can't be an edge rusher. That..looks exactly like Urlacher trying to blitz the edge. Neither of them are built for it. The bend, the leverage, the shiftiness, he doesn't have it.

Good MLB prospect, bad edge prospect

You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

mmmc_35 wrote:You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

I'm staying out of it. It's one clip.

If Vic Fangio can get Christian Jones to find success in his defense, he can get Tremaine Edmunds. I don't care if that's at ILB or OLB; there's a role for someone like him on your football team.

G08 wrote:

mmmc_35 wrote:You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

I'm staying out of it. It's one clip.

If Vic Fangio can get Christian Jones to find success in his defense, he can get Tremaine Edmunds. I don't care if that's at ILB or OLB; there's a role for someone like him on your football team.

Ironically the Christian Jones comp is why i kind of cant get behind this pic.

As middleguard sort of alluded to a few posts up, the more I watch this guy the more it just feels like he's got bad instincts. And trying to teach a linebacker instincts is like trying to teach a qb accuracy: It usually doesnt work out. Tremaine could so easily end up a Christian Jones kind of player, athletic freak but you still have to gameplan to cover up his weaknesses, and for the number 8 pick... i dunno. I'm nervous.

Every pick comes with risks. In the top half of Round 1, you're drafting elite athletic traits and expecting your coaches to put the players with those elite athletic traits in a good position to succeed.

If Edmunds is the pick, he won't be expected to call defensive signals if he lines up inside -- he'll be alongside Trevathan who will do that. Whether he's inside or outside, his job at first will be to read his keys and run to the ball.

Rookies make mistakes. You expect he learns from them as he gains NFL experience, but the point is that he's not going to be perfect; no player is. His speed, athleticism, and range suggest the potential to be a dominant player. You bet on your coaching to help bring it out of him.

mmmc_35 wrote:You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.

thunderspirit wrote:Every pick comes with risks. In the top half of Round 1, you're drafting elite athletic traits and expecting your coaches to put the players with those elite athletic traits in a good position to succeed.

If Edmunds is the pick, he won't be expected to call defensive signals if he lines up inside -- he'll be alongside Trevathan who will do that. Whether he's inside or outside, his job at first will be to read his keys and run to the ball.

Rookies make mistakes. You expect he learns from them as he gains NFL experience, but the point is that he's not going to be perfect; no player is. His speed, athleticism, and range suggest the potential to be a dominant player. You bet on your coaching to help bring it out of him.

Drafting elite athletic traits in round one gets you in trouble. You draft players with high football IQ and elite athletic traits. There are plaenty of guys who have elite traits but are just ok at football because they don't have a feel for the game. Hester for instance, should have been an all pro WR, CB, or RB based on his elite traits, a great player as a returner, the best ever, but he couldn't play a position because he didn't have the head for it.

cblaz11 wrote:

mmmc_35 wrote:You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.

I hope you realize Harold Landry (I'm invoking his name because I think you're looking for Landry's movements in this gif, I could be wrong) would have been flattened like a pancake on the same blitz. Edmunds wasn't attempting to bend the edge or anything of that ilk on that one isolated rush -- he was lined up two yards off the ball, not in a 3 point stance ready to fire.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield". If you're talking about hand usage, then yes in this one clip he didn't even attempt it. If you're talking about hip flexibility, then I'd say watch any other game of his or just watch his combine/Pro Day drills and you'll see a very, very loose hipped kid. He does thinks young men his size should not be able to do.

cblaz11 wrote:

mmmc_35 wrote:You realize if that ball didn't come out so quickly he would have had a pressure or sack.

Lol...is that what you see? I see the RT completely isolate him and because he doesn't have the flexibility of hand usage he can't get upfield. If the QB holds that ball, Edmunds would have been shut out of the play.

For a kid who isn't asked to play on as an edge rusher your expectation of him is unrealistic. We are going to overly break down a 3 second clip. He gets up field. Gets the tackles shoulders turned. Edmunds has his arm inside.

The pass is from shotgun and thrown on the 3rd step. Right as Edmunds needs to turn the corner the ball is out. So we don't see him do it.

Hand usage shouldn't be refined because he plays ILB.

Flexibility is seen all over the field. This clip is to short to determine anything. However if the kid can cover the slot I bet he has the hips to turn the corner and lean in to a tackle.

Now I get your point. Edmunds clip doesn't look like Von Miller below. Miller fires out of his stance, bats the hands out of the way. Dips into contact. Gets his arm the outside and truly bends the corner. I think Edmunds has those types of traits but not the technique.