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College football and the NFL Draft

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IE
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I can't believe when I looked there isn't even a thread about CBs for this draft. I know there are other needs, but with the way Gordon has been criticized and considering JJ is up for contract renewal after this season and Kindle Vildor is CB2, it doesn't even seem to be a BPA conversation - it is more like a hard need.

Last year's Sauce Gardner pick is viewed as one of - if not the - top picks of that draft. So why not pick this year's model first? Poles has enough ammo to trade up and grab AA later in the first round. He can hire Ngakoe or Quinn for a year or two on the edge. He can do a lot of things - but elite, true shut-down corners don't come around every day.

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I am not personally interested in drafting a CB at #9. It's a big man's game and one should focus on big men.

Specific to Witherspoon: he's very talented and has displayed great ball skills, but man, 181 pounds is veeeery skinny. Not Emmanuel Forbes skinny, but skinny. The game tape is good, but it'd be a heckuva gamble to bet on him at a first-rounder.
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dplank wrote:I agree with Rich here
RichH55 wrote: Dplank is correct
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IE wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 3:31 pm I can't believe when I looked there isn't even a thread about CBs for this draft. I know there are other needs, but with the way Gordon has been criticized and considering JJ is up for contract renewal after this season and Kindle Vildor is CB2, it doesn't even seem to be a BPA conversation - it is more like a hard need.

Last year's Sauce Gardner pick is viewed as one of - if not the - top picks of that draft. So why not pick this year's model first? Poles has enough ammo to trade up and grab AA later in the first round. He can hire Ngakoe or Quinn for a year or two on the edge. He can do a lot of things - but elite, true shut-down corners don't come around every day.

Because Poles didn't fill all the DL holes (don't know if realistically could have), it seems like it's more of a need in the draft. 3T, DE along with RT. One of those 3 picks at 54, 61, and 64 might see a CB. But, of course, Poles knows a bit better than me what he thinks would benefit the team so it wouldn't shock me if he went with the best CB if that's what he saw as the best player.
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Grizzled wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:27 pm
Because Poles didn't fill all the DL holes (don't know if realistically could have), it seems like it's more of a need in the draft. 3T, DE along with RT. One of those 3 picks at 54, 61, and 64 might see a CB. But, of course, Poles knows a bit better than me what he thinks would benefit the team so it wouldn't shock me if he went with the best CB if that's what he saw as the best player.
Totally get it on the DL. Like I said, there are still good DEs outside of the first, and potential to even trade up and get a guy like AA. Then there are some older short term guys that could be gotten (Ngakoe, Quinn, Clowney) for one year rentals.

Truly elite cover corners don't come along every year, even. Some of these players are just projected into to the top 10 because of how the talent shakes out this year. But shutdown corners are rare.
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  • I'm in for spending big on one of your corners, as long as you feel good that they are elite. I'm confident in Gonzalez, but no one else.
  • Supposedly, one of the benefits to T2/C3 is that it isn't quite as demanding on your corners and you can get by a little cheaper there.
  • I don't think they like Jaylon Johnson all that much. Preliminary extension talks have surfaced re Kmet and they were underway for Mooney before he went down. Not a word on JJ.
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I'd rather sign Rock Ya-Sin and look for a mid-round corner. All of our early draft capital last year was spent in the defensive backfield.
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wulfy wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:11 am I'd rather sign Rock Ya-Sin and look for a mid-round corner. All of our early draft capital last year was spent in the defensive backfield.
Totally on board here! We can NOT have Vildor anywhere on the field except for the sidelines as the 5th CB available. He has proven to be a liability when on the field.
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You roll out:
CB Johnson
CB Ya-Sin
Nickel Gordon
FS Jackson
SS Brisker

That's one of the better D-Backfields in the NFC ... and you'll need it because you have no pass rush.
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I think the Beats would have to seriously consider Gonzalez or Witherspoon if they’re at 9. Gonzalez is bigger and Witherspoon has more ball production so choose your flavor

As for the mid rounds

Garret Williams outside and Trevius Hodges-Tomlinson at nickel
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IE wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:56 pm
Grizzled wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 5:27 pm
Because Poles didn't fill all the DL holes (don't know if realistically could have), it seems like it's more of a need in the draft. 3T, DE along with RT. One of those 3 picks at 54, 61, and 64 might see a CB. But, of course, Poles knows a bit better than me what he thinks would benefit the team so it wouldn't shock me if he went with the best CB if that's what he saw as the best player.
Totally get it on the DL. Like I said, there are still good DEs outside of the first, and potential to even trade up and get a guy like AA. Then there are some older short term guys that could be gotten (Ngakoe, Quinn, Clowney) for one year rentals.

Truly elite cover corners don't come along every year, even. Some of these players are just projected into to the top 10 because of how the talent shakes out this year. But shutdown corners are rare.
This seems to be a deep draft for DL. Poles does consider CB to be a premium position and I think, despite taking secondary guys with his first 2 picks last year, might snag one of the 2 premium ones at 9. Talk about some interesting Board discussions if he does ....
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This isn't worth it's own thread, but Bears will need a superior safety to replace Jackson when they cut him next year. Safeties can generally play as rookies, so establishing a pipeline this year is probably a waste. But I felt someone should at least mention the position.
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Middleguard wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:49 pm This isn't worth it's own thread, but Bears will need a superior safety to replace Jackson when they cut him next year. Safeties can generally play as rookies, so establishing a pipeline this year is probably a waste. But I felt someone should at least mention the position.
I think if he plays like he did last fall and stays healthy, ,they'll extend him and pay him. Maybe not as much as the past contract but he was pretty valuable. He was thriving last year, and probably has at least 3-4 years before he regressess athletically.
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Moriarty wrote: Mon Mar 20, 2023 7:51 pm
  • I'm in for spending big on one of your corners, as long as you feel good that they are elite. I'm confident in Gonzalez, but no one else.
  • I don't think they like Jaylon Johnson all that much. Preliminary extension talks have surfaced re Kmet and they were underway for Mooney before he went down. Not a word on JJ.
https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-b ... e-players/
I don't get why you wouldn't be confident in Spoon. He can do it all. He's a true shutdown corner. He's good in zone. He's super physical and a good tackler. And he has the nose for the ball & takeaways. Who else is going to cover Justin Jefferson and Amon Ra? No Bears can do it. Poles might be considering what he needs to actually beat teams in this division.

The arguments that he is too small are not compelling. A lot of CBs play at 190 - good ones too. And a LOT are shorter than Spoon at 6'. That's one thing about the draft - people perseverate on one ostensible flaw that really shouldn't be a concern, and miss the forest for the trees. Short arms! 8 pounds light!

The guy is a terrific football player, and like the video explained... he's really still only green. He's going to be even better!
wulfy wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 7:11 am I'd rather sign Rock Ya-Sin and look for a mid-round corner. All of our early draft capital last year was spent in the defensive backfield.
Rock is OK. I don't know that he's any better than Vildor. Bears need a stud at all levels. There are still moves they can make in FA to really help the DL - but there are no options at Corner. Not really, since CJ signed with the Leos.

I want to beat the Vikes.
Last edited by IE on Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I disagree with the premise that DL is deep in this draft for what we need. There just aren't many penetrating guys. This is really a better draft for 3-4 teams who just want big slow pluggers on the inside and 250 pound edge rushers on the outside.

As for CB, there are more available in FA now and in the mid-to-late rounds of the draft. If Spoon and Gonz are there at 9 it HAS to be a consideration because they are blue-chip players IMO but the knockon effect is the Bears miss on 3T or OT. In that case Poles has to just say "I couldn't pass up that talent at a premium position" and scramble to make something happen on the lines.
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crueltyabc wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 am This is really a better draft for 3-4 teams who just want big slow pluggers on the inside and 250 pound edge rushers on the outside.
As a tangent, I think it's almost always a better draft for 3-4 teams. It's just so much easier to find those front 5 roles than it is the front 4 of a 43.
crueltyabc wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 am I disagree with the premise that DL is deep in this draft for what we need. There just aren't many penetrating guys.
DT is a little sparse, DE is good.
If you can leave with 2 good DEs and 1 good DT (either one) - which is a reasonable and feasible goal, IMO - you've done a lot to upgrade the line in one year.
crueltyabc wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 am If Spoon and Gonz are there at 9 it HAS to be a consideration because they are blue-chip players IMO but the knockon effect is the Bears miss on 3T or OT. In that case Poles has to just say "I couldn't pass up that talent at a premium position" and scramble to make something happen on the lines.
Yeah, it's tough, because there just aren't enough picks to cover it all.

I'm not thrilled about passing on Jamel Dean cheaply. Sure, a top 10 CB will probably eclipse him, but at the cost of missing out on other stuff. That's a need that you could've scratched off in advance.
Not even sniffing CB in FA really makes me wonder.
Either they're really into the possibility of CB at 9 or they're very ready to go at it again with what they have - two radically different approaches...
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crueltyabc wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:08 am I disagree with the premise that DL is deep in this draft for what we need. There just aren't many penetrating guys. This is really a better draft for 3-4 teams who just want big slow pluggers on the inside and 250 pound edge rushers on the outside.

As for CB, there are more available in FA now and in the mid-to-late rounds of the draft. If Spoon and Gonz are there at 9 it HAS to be a consideration because they are blue-chip players IMO but the knockon effect is the Bears miss on 3T or OT. In that case Poles has to just say "I couldn't pass up that talent at a premium position" and scramble to make something happen on the lines.
The CBs in FA are journeymen - we can't compare those to a shutdown CB1 any more than we can expect a later-round DT to be penetrating.

The Bears could pick Spoon at 9 (or Gonzalez if Spoon isn't available because he's CB1 in this draft) and STILL work a trade up to get AA later in the first. This is feasible, and addresses two clear needs.

IF the Bears are still considering that Jenk may be able to play on the right, they may not want to draft an OT high & might consider one on Day 2 instead. They can definitely get an elite CB, a really good penetrating DT, a Center AND a good RT candidate in this draft if they go in that order. It doesn't seem like they can get that broad quality to meet needs in reverse.
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If there’s a starting-quality RT on the roster (either a FA or if they believe in Jenkins) on draft day it certainly changes the math.
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I’m ok drafting a CB anywhere after round 1. We do need one pretty badly, Vildor blows.
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If we grab Gonzales, Porter, or Witherspoon at number 9. I will be a hell of a lot happier than if we take Van Ness at 9 because we need a DE.

These 3 guys at worst will be above average CB's. At best true shut-down CB's.

Van Ness will be at worst out of the NFL by his second contract. At best a stud DE. I am not disputing his athletic ability.

More security in drafting the CB's at pick 9 than any of the other positions. Well except RB. He is a no-brainer. If we are looking at BPA.
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EricTighe wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:10 pm If we grab Gonzales, Porter, or Witherspoon at number 9. I will be a hell of a lot happier than if we take Van Ness at 9 because we need a DE.

These 3 guys at worst will be above average CB's. At best true shut-down CB's.

Van Ness will be at worst out of the NFL by his second contract. At best a stud DE. I am not disputing his athletic ability.

More security in drafting the CB's at pick 9 than any of the other positions. Well except RB. He is a no-brainer. If we are looking at BPA.
The thing on Van Ness - if he DOES hit ceiling - I don't think that happens until Year 3

He could have an Edmunds like career.....
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You talking Tremaine Edmunds? If you are and you have a guy who goes to 2 Pro Bowls in their first contract ...
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EricTighe wrote: Sat Mar 25, 2023 5:57 am You talking Tremaine Edmunds? If you are and you have a guy who goes to 2 Pro Bowls in their first contract ...
Fair counter point

More so I feel like the 2nd contract could get you better overall play than the 1st
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EricTighe wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:10 pm If we grab Gonzales, Porter, or Witherspoon at number 9. I will be a hell of a lot happier than if we take Van Ness at 9 because we need a DE.

These 3 guys at worst will be above average CB's. At best true shut-down CB's.

Van Ness will be at worst out of the NFL by his second contract. At best a stud DE. I am not disputing his athletic ability.

More security in drafting the CB's at pick 9 than any of the other positions. Well except RB. He is a no-brainer. If we are looking at BPA.
Jeff Okudah has struggled as has Caleb Farley. I don't think there are sure things at any position but I agree that at least Gonz and Spoon have a higher floor than Van Ness.

I don't think Porter is a good enough athlete to be a sure thing but YMMV
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crueltyabc wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 1:34 pm
EricTighe wrote: Fri Mar 24, 2023 12:10 pm If we grab Gonzales, Porter, or Witherspoon at number 9. I will be a hell of a lot happier than if we take Van Ness at 9 because we need a DE.

These 3 guys at worst will be above average CB's. At best true shut-down CB's.

Van Ness will be at worst out of the NFL by his second contract. At best a stud DE. I am not disputing his athletic ability.

More security in drafting the CB's at pick 9 than any of the other positions. Well except RB. He is a no-brainer. If we are looking at BPA.
Jeff Okudah has struggled as has Caleb Farley. I don't think there are sure things at any position but I agree that at least Gonz and Spoon have a higher floor than Van Ness.

I don't think Porter is a good enough athlete to be a sure thing but YMMV
Actually after him being banged up as much as he has I am hoping the Lions release him and we pick him up. Last year he got better as the year went on and maybe he is finally getting over his injuries. Oh yeah, Jeff Okudah.
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As far as Caleb Farley goes your comments are a bit pre mature due to an injury.

The Titans selected Caleb Farley with the 22nd overall pick in the first round of the 2021 NFL Draft. The 6-foot-2 inch, 197-pound defender possesses a rare combination of size and speed for an athlete at his position. The Maiden, N.C., native appeared in three contests with one start during his rookie campaign, totaling four tackles and one pass defensed before suffering a season-ending injury.


So thanks for making my case for me. :)
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