Bowe Bergdahl deserter not hero

[mmmc_35]

www.nbcnews.com/storyline/bowe-bergdahl-released/not-everyones-hero-soldiers-question-bowe-bergdahls-bravery-n120051?cid=sm_facebook_20140602_sergeantreleased4

Putting this out there. Bowe Bergdahl was "captured" in the Paktika province in Afghanistan in 2009.

During that time I was stationed in the Paktika Provence. I worked directly with the 25th ID, including members of his platoon and many who would search for him. I did not know anyone whom died during the search but many of my friends did.

I can tell you with out a doubt the story relayed in op brief where that Bergdahl left and deserted. While there may be information that comes out to the contrary be cautious of anyone proclaiming him a hero. Members who severed along side him call him a traitor. I personally hope to see UCMJ action.

[Boris13c]

WASHINGTON — Sometime after midnight on June 30, 2009, Pfc. Bowe Bergdahl left behind a note in his tent saying he had become disillusioned with the Army, did not support the American mission in Afghanistan and was leaving to start a new life. He slipped off the remote military outpost in Paktika Province on the border with Pakistan and took with him a soft backpack, water, knives, a notebook and writing materials, but left behind his body armor and weapons — startling, given the hostile environment around his outpost.

That account, provided by a former senior military officer briefed on the investigation into the private’s disappearance, is part of a more complicated picture emerging of the capture of a soldier whose five years as a Taliban prisoner influenced high-level diplomatic negotiations, brought in foreign governments, and ended with him whisked away on a helicopter by American commandos.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/03/us/us ... .html?_r=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so to understand the base info here, this guy simply walked off his post into the wilds ... and now he has been swapped for 5 suspected terrorists .... and there are those who think the guy who simply walked off his post in a war zone is a "hero" who we must honor in some way

I don't get it

I also don't get how one who deserts his post in a war zone gets promoted in captivity and gets a party at the White House once released

this whole thing just smells wrong

[mmmc_35]

Well what initially was being reported, and whats now being reported are very different.

Initially they were saying he was CAPTURED but leaving out details on how. Berghdal said he was picked off because he was lagging behind in a patrol. Completely false. The media started out saying he was a prisoner of war and hero. The government promoted him just like they did SSG Matt Maplin. Except Mauplin was a real hero, whom died for his country.

However now the 25th ID guys are calling bullshit. They have went out and told the unknown side of the story. That's he deserted his men. Our President just traded 5 Generals for a PFC deserter.

With what I know of the situation I believe he was a sympathizer and went to help the Taliban. Lets face it... He did help them. They got 5 generals we got a PFC. Shit really picked up at that time. Lots of complex attacks. Plus knowing some scouts every time they picked up cell phone signals it was pretty well known what we were up to.

[mmmc_35]

I would like to add I firmly believe he was a sympathizer. Many Soldiers commented to me that he talked openly about the Afghan people and how America was wrong.

[Stay_Cool]

I had a friend of mine whose life was lost while on a SnR assignment for this man... Needless to say this is a rough topic for me

[mmmc_35]

Was he a 25th ID guy? I know the SF guys got shot up looking for him too. Like I said i was in the province when this went down. Shit became a lot more active. It is sad that we negotiated with terrorists to free a home grown traitor.

However Stay_Cool hopefully with everyone speaking out he gets tried in court and gets just punishment. (Death)

I am sorry for your friend, you, and his family. My brothers in the 25th got hit hard because of this joker. It hits home for guys like us.

[Stay_Cool]

Pfc. Matthew Martinek of the 501st. Went to Bartlett high school with me.

[IE]

I don't know anything about this situation, but it is a shame how political it has become. My only understanding is that there has been support to get this last prisoner, and it has been coming from both sides of the aisle. And now it looks like a mess.

I don't disbelieve the anecdotes and stories about what transpired for the guy to become a prisoner (and what happened in the search for him)... and it is terrible that any American is losing their life over there. At the same time, I think when we're pulling out of war, we try to not leave a guy like this behind ... bring him back, and let him have his day in military court, if necessary - but our military court, and not "theirs". I strongly believe that the government wouldn't give up any important assets in a trade... nothing they feared, really... and who knows - they might have "assets" following those guys as we speak, to take them out.

One thing I'm pretty sure about: I bet Pres. Obama is absolutely pissed that his team didn't vet this better before planning the dog & pony show at the white house. I don't think he would have stopped the trade... but I strongly believe his treatment of it would have been completely different, had he been aware of a controversy. Somebody's head is going to roll, euphemistically speaking of course.

[mmmc_35]

Stay_Cool sorry to hear it. RIP PFC .

IE You don't think the president was made aware of this? I think it's impossible he be that ignorant to not know the back ground of a huge international political move like this. I do think they thought the American public wouldn't question it. The can plead ignorance on small things but large negotiation with terrorists? Come on man. My opinion he should have been executed.

Did anyone see the propaganda video the terrorist released? Just gave fuel to the fire

[IE]

The president trusts the people around him to make sure this stuff is vetted. No matter how big a deal this is, he can't pay attention to details like this... it was not a big event to the President (nothing more than a nice announcement and rose garden photo shoot) until the controversy swirled. I'm not saying he didn't know it was happening - no doubt he was briefed & gave an OK on the trade. But I will suggest that he didn't know the details of the controversy, or he would have stayed far away from it. He is political - but not stupid. I'd guess his aides told him that getting this guy out of there was supported by the other side as well - and he viewed it as innocuous.

On the execution stuff... we don't do that here. People are entitled to due process... and no matter what stories are floating around, he is entitled to it. I know it is an emotional topic, and close to home. Really sorry about that. But the guy is entitled to his day in court, and for a court to hear a case from two sides. That's what we fight for.

[mmmc_35]

Not if he renounced his citizenshi and became an enemy of the US.

I am very confused. I do not know how you could even assume President Obama didn't know. But let's say for one second he did. Then he failed our county by hiring morons and being ignorant of his staffs failure.

Look I an not a President Obama hater nor fan. He has made some good moves and bad. He got Osama he gets a +1 for that. He fucked this up -1.

[Bears_40]

" He is political - but not stupid. " - IE, I disagree with this. Time and time again he claims ignorance that he didn't know and just found out. He plays everyone and is a liar.

He gave up 5 Bin-Laden's for this clown.

[IE]

OK - well, I'm not going to argue in general about the POTUS' behavior or successes/failures, etc. Especially against comments about the POTUS always playing people and being a liar... c'mon, let's be adults here.

There were recently Republican leaders lobbying to deal to get the guy back... so for whatever reason the entire spectrum of stories was not available to them either. Who knows why... but the President's advisors goofed him up to get involved in this, instead of just allowing it to happen at a distance. Anyone who thinks that President Obama purposely compromised himself or made himself look bad or unaware... you're just kidding yourself. That dude is smart. You can go ahead and not like him for whatever reason you like - but he is very smart.

On the "renouncing your citizenship" angle - no, that really doesn't hold water. First - if he did that even on tape, it could be under duress and certainly that is not treason in itself. Renouncing your citizenship doesn't automatically make you an enemy of the state. Regardless... even traitors are entitled to their day in court. Again... we fight for our ways, and that includes due process. You can't have it both ways... not matter how strong the emotion. That's how we do things. That's why we're better.

[mmmc_35]

Interesting. I think you are looking at the POTUS through rose colored glasses. He, his administration made a mistake by my standards and many others. This is not a Republican Democrat issue. I do not more never will follow party politics. I voted for him in the first election. Johnson in the second.

You are right shit rolls down hill keeping the mountain top clean as a whistle. Doesn't mean the duce did not start at the top.

THe President is very smart. When you are in charge to claim ignorance is weak minded and shows bad leadership. By you believing the "I don't know logic" it shows me you question his intelligence. You see I know he is smart, too smart to not know the facts behind a huge political and strategic move like this. It's international. It's big. It's too big for a smart man in charge of the entire thing to not know. I think it's clear he thought the public would accept him as a hero and it back fired. Our public is pissed and our enemy is celebrating.

If your the captain of a ship that runs around it's your fault not the first mates.

[mmmc_35]

As far as the renouncing citizenship. My brother in law does that for a living with the U.S. Embassy. Yes you need to legally do that under oath. I think the intent was clear. He did it in the Safety of his post in his living quarters.

Due process is important but to compromise American security and lives? On foreign soil with a traitor.

[mmmc_35]

Clearly biased sites but there is truth in there

www.redflagnews.com/headlines/breaking-pentagon-warned-obama-not-to-release-taliban-leaders-like-handing-over-five-4-star-generals-for-a-deserter

mobile.wnd.com/2014/06/general-deserter-should-never-draw-a-free-breath/#see81Bq6ewH5CsB5.99

[IE]

No question it is a sticky situation, mmmc. I guess you're right that the Pres may have known more than he'd admit... but that is only going to be speculation unless it is on tape. Look at all the nonsense about WMDs in Iraq and the stories that have come out from Colin Powell and others ... even with statements from an insider, nobody really believes anything other than what they want to believe. So maybe it is rose colored glasses. Maybe it is respect for the job. But I prefer to believe that Presidents in general have a lot going on (much we don't even know about), and occasionally undesirable things happen because of imperfect communications.

So yeah - On the consequences for this guy.... I'm inclined to default to proven (and legal) processes. Don't get me wrong ... if a deserter was shooting at our troops, then mow him down. But anything else ... even if it is suspicion that he was giving the enemy information that put our troops at risk ... that is exactly what military trials are for, right? If we allow biased folks, partially-informed folks, etc to be the judge and jury, then in my opinion we've taken a step back.

I know it sucks for the family and friends of someone who is murdered, to know that the murderer is sitting there guilty and still alive (even if it is in jail)... but that's our law. And laws are what make us great.

[Boris13c]

go watch Homeland ... focus on the Brody character ... this scenario with this dude looks like it came right from the tv series script

which makes it only more strange

but now it has become a political football, which means facts and truth are going to be in the back end of the bus as each political side tries to spin this to conform to their views, which means we may never know the details or reasons behind what happened

[IE]

go watch Homeland ... focus on the Brody character ... this scenario with this dude looks like it came right from the tv series script

which makes it only more strange

but now it has become a political football, which means facts and truth are going to be in the back end of the bus as each political side tries to spin this to conform to their views, which means we may never know the details or reasons behind what happened

Right. And for that reason, I'd prefer the guy go through the court martial process, and let the military court decide what he did and didn't do.

[mmmc_35]

Yes I guess that is the only positive I can find. Hopefully he does to trail

[Boris13c]

Bowe Bergdahl arraigned at North Carolina Army base

FORT BRAGG, N.C. (AP) — Wearing a dress blue uniform, Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl faced a military judge Tuesday for the first time since the U.S. Army decided to proceed with a military trial that could result in a life sentence for his disappearance in Afghanistan in 2009.

Bergdahl, who was held by the Taliban for five years after he walked off a base, was arraigned during a short hearing on charges of desertion and misbehavior before the enemy, a relatively rare charge that carries the severe punishment. If convicted of desertion, he could get up to five years in prison.

Bergdahl deferred entering a plea and did not decide whether he wants to face a court-martial with a jury or one with just a judge. He said little beyond answering "yes" and "no" to questions about whether he understood his rights and the court proceedings.

He appeared demure, sitting mostly still in his chair then walking deliberately with his head down as he left the courtroom. He talked quietly with his military attorney before and after the hearing.

The next pretrial hearing was scheduled for Jan. 12 before Army Judge Col. Jeffery R. Nance, who will preside over future hearings in the case.

Bergdahl, 29, of Hailey, Idaho, walked off his post in eastern Afghanistan's Paktika province on June 30, 2009. He was released in late May 2014 as part of a prisoner swap, in exchange for five detainees in Guantanamo Bay. The move touched off a firestorm of criticism, with some in Congress accusing President Barack Obama of jeopardizing the safety of the country with the exchange.

A preliminary hearing officer initially recommended a special court-martial, which is a misdemeanor-level forum. But earlier this month, the Army announced Bergdahl would face the more serious general court-martial.

Bergdahl's disappearance and the possibility that he might face light punishment had angered many in the military, who say his fellow soldiers took considerable risks to search for him.

[mmmc_35]

Serial second season is dealing with this.

I don't expect them to cover the issue fairly, as I thought they portrayed the last season unfairly. However it was entertaining, I expect this season to be too.

[Boris13c]

this Bergdahl guy seems quite delusional (maybe they are going for an insanity defense?) ... referring to himself as being like Jason Bourne and how he was going to be a hero due to his solo mission into the heart of the enemy

right ... and that worked oh so well

[mmmc_35]

this Bergdahl guy seems quite delusional (maybe they are going for an insanity defense?) ... referring to himself as being like Jason Bourne and how he was going to be a hero due to his solo mission into the heart of the enemy

right ... and that worked oh so well

Yes. In the mental Health field they call it delusions of grandeur. He clearly thinks or thought of himself as smarter stronger better than he was.

He also talked about leadership failure. He mentioned from the 25 ID (the group he was with) through basic.

As a relatively normal, Alpha fucking destroyer(for real I am amazing), that I am. I can tell you anyone who questions leadership in basic (all male basic) are fucking morons. Basic is suppose to be chaos and challenging. I fucking loved it.

Combine those two tidbits with the coast guard rejecting him due to psych issues and you get the fact he is not on the normal side. The guys I knew that where with him didn't like him much.

However that said he knew right from wrong. That's the standard for the insanity defense. He knew his plan was wrong and mentioned it would get him in trouble.

[wab]

Considering my soon to be father in law is a retired Brigadier general in the Air Force, who worked about 35 floors below the surface of an unnamed Air Force base in the mountains, he's got some pretty strong feelings about this guy.

He also recognizes that there's more to this than what's being told. I don't know what that is though. I can't even get him to tell me how many sugars he wants in his coffee.

[Boris13c]

He also recognizes that there's more to this than what's being told. I don't know what that is though. I can't even get him to tell me how many sugars he wants in his coffee.

so you haven't offered to butter HIS biscuits? that's probably why he won't tell you anything

[mmmc_35]

He probably realizes this whole thing has been pushed and pulled by the political landscape and hates it.

[Bears_40]

The political landscape will probably set him free.

[Boris13c]

Bowe Bergdahl Trial Postponed Until February 2017

A judge has postponed U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl's trial to February 2017 to give the defense time to properly review and prepare thousands of pages of classified documents.

Army Judge Col. Jeffrey R. Nance announced that the trial would be pushed back at a pre-trial hearing held today in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. The move means Bergdahl’s fate will not be decided until after a new commander-in-chief is elected and inaugurated.

[Boris13c]

a lot of interesting reading here :

Bowe Bergdahl in His Own Words

in that interesting reading is Bergdahl himself admitting he left his post voluntarily

no, he didn't plan on being captured ... most folks don't ... and he gave an explanation of his reasons for doing so, among them a lack of confidence in his chain of command and that he could prevent IED placements on his one man commando mission

I am sure this will make for an interesting trial once it happens, with many twists and turns on the story line

but 1 thing that cannot be twisted - when asked under oath is he left his post voluntarily and without authorization, his truthful answer is going to be "yes" since he has already admitted to this ... so to me, it is pretty much a slam dunk case unless the prosecution screws up .. and he will go to jail for desertion in a war zone if nothing else and the punishment for that can be severe :

Article 85 - Desertion

(a) Any member of the armed forces who

(1) without authority goes or remains absent from his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to remain away there from permanently;

(2) quits his unit, organization, or place of duty with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service; or

(3) without being regularly separated from one of the armed forces enlists or accepts an appointment in the same or another one of the armed forces without fully disclosing the fact that he has not been regularly separated, or enters any foreign armed service except when authorized by the United States Note: This provision has been held not to state a separate offense by the United States Court of Military Appeals in United States v. Huff, 7 U.S.C.M.A. 247, 22 C.M.R. 37 (1956), is guilty of desertion.

(b) Any commissioned officer of the armed forces who, after tender of his resignation and before notice of its acceptance, quits his post or proper duties without leave and with intent to remain away therefrom permanently is guilty of desertion.

(c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

his defense team will argue he did not depart with the intent to remain away permanently, nor was he shirking hazardous duty ... and based on Bergdahl's comments, that would seem to be true ... he did intend to return to his unit ... and these facts will prevent the death sentence

but since his plan was delusional at best, and without authorization, and then resulted in many negative things to follow, I believe he is going to be jailed for a length of time and be dishonorably discharged