Yogi da Bear's Picnic Basket (2024)

[dplank]

And you don't give up your prior starting QB, one with the potential of Justin Fields who is only making 6 mill for the season, for a future fourth round pick, let alone a sixth. I will die on this hill.

Bears were in a unique situation with Justin and the first pick of the draft. You don't simply hand the starter job to a rookie. I don't care if he's the first pick of the draft. Competition is NOT a bad thing. It's NOT going to throw the locker room into discord. If Caleb outplayed Justin and won the starter position fairly, their teammates would be able to see that. It certainly wouldn't be as traumatizing to the teammates who loved Justin as what they did in simply giving him away. Hell, the Bears traded a fourth of that same year for Nick Foles to compete with Trubiskey. When Peyton Manning came in, the Colts traded an aged Jim Harbaugh to the Ravens for a third and a fourth, of that same year.

Of those teams who started the number one draft pick as a rookie, how many dumped a promising young QB for a song in order to simply hand the reins over to the rookie? Like I said, the Bears were in a unique situation that they simply pissed away for nothing. Poles neglected the first rule of any negotiation--you have to be willing to walk away. Just stupid in my book.

But I'll let this go. Caleb's our starter now. I sure hope he doesn't get hurt (knock on wood).

Yep, totally agree here. And it's fine to disagree with the path we took here AND STILL MOVE ON as we have done. Moving on doesn't mean agreeing with what happened, it means accepting it's done and over with. A mere mention of my continued disagreement on this path isn't trying to coerce anyone into thinking anything different or rehashing a sore subject, I'm just not going along with any of the group think premises that stem from what I believe was a mistake to begin with. Pages aren't devolving into lengthy arguments about the subject, so people really just need to lay off when a counter opinion pops up - it happens and we are entitled to disagree.

I still supported Poles despite violent disagreement on Claypool. I still support Poles now even though I disagree with his handling of Fields. I've disagreed with Poles on a number of things, from Roquan to not drafting OL high in his first draft, to Carter vs Wright, to Claypool, and now with Fields. Poles has been right far more often than I have, and I'll own that each and every time and give him credit for being right. But he's not perfect, he can make mistakes and he will, everyone does. Time will tell on JF1, maybe he's the turd that many here seem to think he is - I believe he is going to turn out to be a damn good player.

[LacertineForest]

Caleb's our starter now. I sure hope he doesn't get hurt (knock on wood).

Honestly, I feel pretty good about Bagent as the backup. I think he's more likely to be able to play in the offense that Waldron will design without making large changes than Fields would have been. He's not going to make a lot of those wow plays, but with the weapons the offense has now, I think we'd be in good shape as long as he's not turning the ball over.

[RichH55]

Caleb's our starter now. I sure hope he doesn't get hurt (knock on wood).

Honestly, I feel pretty good about Bagent as the backup. I think he's more likely to be able to play in the offense that Waldron will design without making large changes than Fields would have been. He's not going to make a lot of those wow plays, but with the weapons the offense has now, I think we'd be in good shape as long as he's not turning the ball over.

This too

[dplank]

Bagent was a UDFA as we know, from a very small school. We should see a BIG leap forward from him with a year in the pro game - more than the average rookie IMO. I'm very comfortable with him as our backup.

[RichH55]

And you don't give up your prior starting QB, one with the potential of Justin Fields who is only making 6 mill for the season, for a future fourth round pick, let alone a sixth. I will die on this hill.

Bears were in a unique situation with Justin and the first pick of the draft. You don't simply hand the starter job to a rookie. I don't care if he's the first pick of the draft. Competition is NOT a bad thing. It's NOT going to throw the locker room into discord. If Caleb outplayed Justin and won the starter position fairly, their teammates would be able to see that. It certainly wouldn't be as traumatizing to the teammates who loved Justin as what they did in simply giving him away. Hell, the Bears traded a fourth of that same year for Nick Foles to compete with Trubiskey. When Peyton Manning came in, the Colts traded an aged Jim Harbaugh to the Ravens for a third and a fourth, of that same year.

Of those teams who started the number one draft pick as a rookie, how many dumped a promising young QB for a song in order to simply hand the reins over to the rookie? Like I said, the Bears were in a unique situation that they simply pissed away for nothing. Poles neglected the first rule of any negotiation--you have to be willing to walk away. Just stupid in my book.

But I'll let this go. Caleb's our starter now. I sure hope he doesn't get hurt (knock on wood).

It's a foolish hill to die as per usual.

"Traumatizing" to Teammates - because the trade return wasn't enough in a message board posters opinion? Wowzers.

( I am not making up that Yogi literally said that)

DJ Moore (somehow): Man I can't sleep at night! I got PTSD - if only we had gotten a 3rd for Fields instead of a 6th!!!!!!!!

Of course, when Fields came in - Everyone (and I mean Everyone - including the people who were quite worried about the pick) - Get him all the Reps! Fields better be getting all the Reps!

But bring in Caleb - and it should be a competition? Split Reps? SURE!

I'm not sure that's the first rule of negotiations - BUT it is NOT how Markets work - Having demand for your product- Kind of helps.

Look the NFL absolutely and over the top - Let you know what they thought about Fields AGAIN (Draft was first acknowledgement) -
1) Getsy gets multiple interviews AND a OC job (no demotion)
2) Mooney got PAID - despite this being one of the better groups of Draft WR in history
3) Teams went OUT of their WAY to avoid even having to give a 3rd/4th for Fields to potentially start - Backup? Sure.

Pay Sam Darnold? Tamper with and then Pay 36 Year old for Week 1 Coming off an Torn ACHILLES Kirk Cousins for $180 Million with $100 Million guaranteed?
Trade up ALOT for JJ McCarthy (will happen)? Pay Baker Mayfield? Pay Geno Smith? Pay Gardner Minshew? Trade MORE for Sam Howell? Potentially Start Jarrett Stidham?? Role another year with Derek Carr or Kyler Murray (Maybe another year with Daniel Jones? - though Giants could draft one). Spend a Top 5-10 pick on a QB? Spend a Top 5 pick on what could be the 3rd and 4th QBs draft? Spend a Top 15 pick on the 5th(?!) Drafted QB?

Hell even the Steelers are going with Russell over him (for now) - And Russell has to play with a Fork sticking out of his back

All of those are things that Teams did or are going to do - to Not have Fields as their Starter. But that's probably just because Poles was "just stupid".

Any deep dive or even cursory look into - hey Why did we overhype Fields? Since seemingly there was no market for - Checks note - What people here thought was a Superstar QB? In a league that wants QBs first and foremost?

Nope. Poles was "just stupid."

[RichH55]

Also - even if you are in the QBs should always sit camp - Fields isn't the guy to be the starter then either since its a new Offense for him as well - and he will (reasonably) want to compete to start and needs Reps - and you can have divided loyalties as well? Fun bonus?!?!

And is also unlikely to beat out Caleb in a competition to play Quarterback. Caleb - as a Rookie - is going to put up better numbers (maybe markedly better) than Fields did as a Third Year Pro.

The only way you can sit Caleb - is if it was a decision ENTIRELY based upon the notion that you think that is the best way to develop a QB - It would never be about competition - NEVER. You would most likely bring in a Vet - Though since you are flat out saying this isn't about the other QB (We think that sitting for a Year is the best thing for Caleb even if he would be better than who actually IS starting) you could have used Bagent.

But in that scenario - Basically Russell Wilson is probably the guy - followed by Minshew and Darnold.

[dplank]

Fields would have put up better numbers (maybe markedly better) than Fields did as a Third Year Pro. Adding Keenan Allen, Swift, a much improved OC, and an actual Center instead of a black hole in the middle of our line would do it alone, along with his natural progression that he was showing.

This point is consistently missed.

[RichH55]

Fields would have put up better numbers (maybe markedly better) than Fields did as a Third Year Pro. Adding Keenan Allen, Swift, a much improved OC, and an actual Center instead of a black hole in the middle of our line would do it alone, along with his natural progression that he was showing.

This point is consistently missed.

All said in apologism of Fields many times - consistently. He never got markedly better. Arguably he was better in 2022 than 2023. And that was adding DJ Moore and a Legit Right Tackle. We also don't have to go over the top hyperbole (Center was not a black hole)

Also - the OC - got multiple interviews and a new OC job

[wab]

And you don't give up your prior starting QB, one with the potential of Justin Fields who is only making 6 mill for the season, for a future fourth round pick, let alone a sixth. I will die on this hill.

Bears were in a unique situation with Justin and the first pick of the draft. You don't simply hand the starter job to a rookie. I don't care if he's the first pick of the draft. Competition is NOT a bad thing. It's NOT going to throw the locker room into discord. If Caleb outplayed Justin and won the starter position fairly, their teammates would be able to see that. It certainly wouldn't be as traumatizing to the teammates who loved Justin as what they did in simply giving him away. Hell, the Bears traded a fourth of that same year for Nick Foles to compete with Trubiskey. When Peyton Manning came in, the Colts traded an aged Jim Harbaugh to the Ravens for a third and a fourth, of that same year.

Of those teams who started the number one draft pick as a rookie, how many dumped a promising young QB for a song in order to simply hand the reins over to the rookie? Like I said, the Bears were in a unique situation that they simply pissed away for nothing. Poles neglected the first rule of any negotiation--you have to be willing to walk away. Just stupid in my book.

But I'll let this go. Caleb's our starter now. I sure hope he doesn't get hurt (knock on wood).

It's a foolish hill to die as per usual.

"Traumatizing" to Teammates - because the trade return wasn't enough in a message board posters opinion? Wowzers.

( I am not making up that Yogi literally said that)

DJ Moore (somehow): Man I can't sleep at night! I got PTSD - if only we had gotten a 3rd for Fields instead of a 6th!!!!!!!!

Of course, when Fields came in - Everyone (and I mean Everyone - including the people who were quite worried about the pick) - Get him all the Reps! Fields better be getting all the Reps!

But bring in Caleb - and it should be a competition? Split Reps? SURE!

I'm not sure that's the first rule of negotiations - BUT it is NOT how Markets work - Having demand for your product- Kind of helps.

Look the NFL absolutely and over the top - Let you know what they thought about Fields AGAIN (Draft was first acknowledgement) -
1) Getsy gets multiple interviews AND a OC job (no demotion)
2) Mooney got PAID - despite this being one of the better groups of Draft WR in history
3) Teams went OUT of their WAY to avoid even having to give a 3rd/4th for Fields to potentially start - Backup? Sure.

Pay Sam Darnold? Tamper with and then Pay 36 Year old for Week 1 Coming off an Torn ACHILLES Kirk Cousins for $180 Million with $100 Million guaranteed?
Trade up ALOT for JJ McCarthy (will happen)? Pay Baker Mayfield? Pay Geno Smith? Pay Gardner Minshew? Trade MORE for Sam Howell? Potentially Start Jarrett Stidham?? Role another year with Derek Carr or Kyler Murray (Maybe another year with Daniel Jones? - though Giants could draft one). Spend a Top 5-10 pick on a QB? Spend a Top 5 pick on what could be the 3rd and 4th QBs draft? Spend a Top 15 pick on the 5th(?!) Drafted QB?

Hell even the Steelers are going with Russell over him (for now) - And Russell has to play with a Fork sticking out of his back

All of those are things that Teams did or are going to do - to Not have Fields as their Starter. But that's probably just because Poles was "just stupid".

Any deep dive or even cursory look into - hey Why did we overhype Fields? Since seemingly there was no market for - Checks note - What people here thought was a Superstar QB? In a league that wants QBs first and foremost?

Nope. Poles was "just stupid."

I don't care anything about any of this, at all, any longer. There's a reason the Fields thread was locked.

[Yogi da Bear]

I'll stop. I won't even respond. I just wish that people wouldn't quote a certain poster.

[Bearfacts]

Justin Fields didn't fail because he started his rookie year. He failed because in 3 years he was deemed not good enough. If he was broken by playing he would have never been an elite QB. He wasnt broken, he kept improving each year, just not fast enough. If the Bears only had pick 9 Justin would be our starting QB.

Playing CW is the right move. There is no substitute for playing. Even if I'm the last one on that ship I am not leaving it. I truly believe there is no substitute and there's enough players who have started as rookies and succeeded. I can think of multiple without trying and so can all of you.

People are afraid the Bears will fuck it up. That's understandable, it is what we do as a franchise. You don't bubble wrap these men, they can handle it. Letting the football players play football.

This is what it all boiled down to and why it was easy for some of us and some analysts and podcasters to make a case for keeping JF while possibly drafting another QB later in the draft or even at #9. But as I posted already the lure of drafting CW and resetting the contract clock was more than JF's play could overcome. As much as anything he has been a victim of his circumstances ever since he was drafted. Like those before him he was drafted into a nearly impossible situation to grow and succeed within but he tried.

Yeah, it's shame the table was not set for him like it's being done for CW but we can't change that. What we could do however and what we did do was to put JF with a team where has has a very good shot at starting again in the near future. Poles respected JF and his efforts as a Bears and he did as right by him as he possibly could even to his own detriment as far as getting a better deal.

CW is not Mitch Trubisky. He's had three years of college starting experience playing FBS Level One football. The Bears seem to be at the doorstep of a championship window opening. If so I don't think we could sit him unless we had a top vet we could continue into that window with as GB did with Rodgers when they had Favre starting. We don't have that kind of situation here.

With as well prepared for bringing him onboard as Poles has done if starting CW as a rookie messes him up then he's not as talented as everyone has claimed he is and we screwed up drafting him to begin with and not because we didn't prepare for a rookie QB again.

[HurricaneBear]

I'll stop. I won't even respond. I just wish that people wouldn't quote a certain poster.

Some of us enjoy talking with said poster.

Learning to walk away is a great skill. Rich is great practice for some of you.

At the end of the day we are all fans of the same team. We will all be celebrating multiple championships soon with our new savior, together.

(Or he will fail and we will drive UOK and wab insane.)

[Yogi da Bear]

I don't mind you talking to him. Hell, I argued against banning him from the board. Also, against banning Gib. I just wish people wouldn't quote him so much. I've blocked him, and I really don't want to read his drivel. That's all.

[RichH55]

I don't mind you talking to him. Hell, I argued against banning him from the board. Also, against banning Gib. I just wish people wouldn't quote him so much. I've blocked him, and I really don't want to read his drivel. That's all.

I wasn't the one who compared Mooney to Ty Hill - This happened last offseason

Or worried about "traumatizing" current Bears with less than adequate trade compensation - this is like 2 days old?

Yogi is still mad that he got Mariotta so wrong - still hasn't admitted that part. Sad. Etc. etc

But I guess calling things drivel is easier than admitting when one is wrong.

[RichH55]

Justin Fields didn't fail because he started his rookie year. He failed because in 3 years he was deemed not good enough. If he was broken by playing he would have never been an elite QB. He wasnt broken, he kept improving each year, just not fast enough. If the Bears only had pick 9 Justin would be our starting QB.

Playing CW is the right move. There is no substitute for playing. Even if I'm the last one on that ship I am not leaving it. I truly believe there is no substitute and there's enough players who have started as rookies and succeeded. I can think of multiple without trying and so can all of you.

People are afraid the Bears will fuck it up. That's understandable, it is what we do as a franchise. You don't bubble wrap these men, they can handle it. Letting the football players play football.

This is what it all boiled down to and why it was easy for some of us and some analysts and podcasters to make a case for keeping JF while possibly drafting another QB later in the draft or even at #9. But as I posted already the lure of drafting CW and resetting the contract clock was more than JF's play could overcome. As much as anything he has been a victim of his circumstances ever since he was drafted. Like those before him he was drafted into a nearly impossible situation to grow and succeed within but he tried.

Yeah, it's shame the table was not set for him like it's being done for CW but we can't change that. What we could do however and what we did do was to put JF with a team where has has a very good shot at starting again in the near future. Poles respected JF and his efforts as a Bears and he did as right by him as he possibly could even to his own detriment as far as getting a better deal.

CW is not Mitch Trubisky. He's had three years of college starting experience playing FBS Level One football. The Bears seem to be at the doorstep of a championship window opening. If so I don't think we could sit him unless we had a top vet we could continue into that window with as GB did with Rodgers when they had Favre starting. We don't have that kind of situation here.

With as well prepared for bringing him onboard as Poles has done if starting CW as a rookie messes him up then he's not as talented as everyone has claimed he is and we screwed up drafting him to begin with and not because we didn't prepare for a rookie QB again.

The things Fields was bad at in College - are the things that he didn't markedly get better at in the Pros

Its why he he failed here.

Full Stop.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

At the end of the day we are all fans of the same team. We will all be celebrating multiple championships soon with our new savior, together.

(Or he will fail and we will drive UOK and wab insane.)

For some reason every time the squabbling starts I imagine @wab like this:

[Ditka’s dictaphone]

At the end of the day we are all fans of the same team. We will all be celebrating multiple championships soon with our new savior, together.

(Or he will fail and we will drive UOK and wab insane.)

For some reason every time the squabbling starts I imagine @wab like this:

@wab is right, we need to stop talking about JF1, he’s gone, he’s moved on. I stuck with him to the end of his Chicago career so if you want me to admit I was wrong - I was 100%.

But let’s not derail current threads

[dplank]

Meh, I respectfully disagree. This is a Bears discussion forum, and Poles made a franchise altering decision (one that many Bears fans disagreed with) that we should be free to discuss on an ongoing basis as the fallout of that decision manifests itself. It's a big part of evaluating our current GM, so it is and will remain relevant to us for some time for that reason alone. It has rightfully faded from prominent discussion into the background now, and there has been no hostility around the conversation. The pro-Fields contingent has fully embraced CW as we all said we would.

I agree it should not take over unrelated threads. On that front, I would urge everyone here who doesn't like it when that happens to jump all over whoever instigates it with some snide comment. Don't get upset at anyone who takes the bait, get after the instigator and it will avoid threads derailing IMO. But in no way should it be that someone can make some snide comment about something that they darn well know will trigger people and the board expectation is "no one may respond to it" - that's just ridiculous IMO. Stop jumping on the one who retaliates and jump on the one who instigates, this is basic playground rules stuff.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Stop jumping on the one who retaliates and jump on the one who instigates, this is basic playground rules stuff.

Come now dplank, we're football fans. We know it's always the guy who retaliates who gets flagged!

[Moriarty]

if being a bears fan has taught me one thing, it's that there's going to be a great player waiting for us at pick #9, and we're going to take Shea McClellin.

Good news!

I'm pretty sure it's impossible to literally redraft Shea McClellin*. They can only metaphorically draft the equivalent.



* Although I guess they could actually put Shea McClellin's name on their card. Then in the confusion of having their selection voided, they miss their turn.
I feel like that's the sort of thing that could have legitimately transpired in the Dark Ages of "We don't need a GM. Why would a professional football franchise need one of those?".

[The Marshall Plan]

For some reason every time the squabbling starts I imagine @wab like this:

@wab is right, we need to stop talking about JF1, he’s gone, he’s moved on. I stuck with him to the end of his Chicago career so if you want me to admit I was wrong - I was 100%.

But let’s not derail current threads

I totally agree.

I loved the guy, I will always root for him and I think he got a raw deal here.

But the decision has been made. He's gone and we're presumably drafting Caleb Williams.

I don't see what good can come of opening the wound after only a month. What's done is done.