Defense is basically coaching themselves

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This makes the coaching staff look pretty bad. Maybe you guys disagree, let's discuss.

http://thegamechicago.com/2014/11/19/be ... r-vikings/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bears cornerback Tim Jennings said Tuesday on his weekly radio show on 87.7 The Game that the defense held a players-only film session last week in an effort to get all of the position groups on the same page.

“We held more accountability to ourselves,” Jennings said. “We got some of the coaches out of the meeting rooms and we just decided, all right, we’re just going to do this. We’re going to control some of the meetings and put things on ourselves and just communicate with one another as a group instead of as different (position groups).”

The result, Jennings said, was a defense that “just felt better as a unit.” The Bears held the Vikings to just 243 total yards in a 21-13 win, and many players, including veterans like Jennings, Lance Briggs and Jared Allen, played their best games of the season.

“Guys just realized, hey, it’s all on us, we really can’t depend on the coaches or any other outside source coming in and helping us,” Jennings said. “It lies on us. At the end of the day, we’re out there executing the plays and making things happen. So we had to take it upon us. So we had a players-only meeting. The offense did their thing. The defense, we figured out what we need to do, and we had a players-only meeting as film study. We watched film together without the coaches, so we were able to kind of communicate with one another instead of having the coaches telling each and every position.”

In other words, instead of being split up amongst their position groups, the players-only film study allowed the group as a whole to communicate together and learn about what the other position groups were doing too.

“Some of the checks the D-line makes, we never knew anything about them,” Jennings said. “We never knew anything about it, we never knew why they do it. For them to kind of explain and give us reasons why Jared (Allen) might check this because of a different front and different plays they like to run, now we know all that.”

Jennings admitted the idea of a players-only film session was different. It’s somewhat common in sports for struggling teams to hold players-only meetings, but to actually sit down and be proactive by watching film together was unique.

“It was definitely different. It was the first time for me out of my whole nine years that we actually had a meeting like that and it actually was good so hopefully that’s something we build off of and we continue that,” Jennings said.
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Rusty Trombagent
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UOK wrote:
“Some of the checks the D-line makes, we never knew anything about them,” Jennings said. “We never knew anything about it, we never knew why they do it. For them to kind of explain and give us reasons why Jared (Allen) might check this because of a different front and different plays they like to run, now we know all that.”
that's... huh.


so about this will muschamp fellow.
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DaDitka
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Considering Jennings said it was a first for him in his nine year career.....I do think it's an indictment of this coaching staff.

What the staff was doing it with individual position groups isn't wrong...it's how other successful defenses have operated.

It's just that these coaches we not doing it well.
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It's a good thing the players have some new ideas on defense because the coaches sure don't.
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DaDitka wrote:What the staff was doing it with individual position groups isn't wrong...it's how other successful defenses have operated.

yes and no

yes, it is important to build and teach the individual position groups to get them on the same page with each other ... but then it is equally important to pull them all together at some point during the week to get them functioning as a unit rather than separate groups

based on what Jennings said, that isn't being done, or if it is, not being done adequately
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OK...uh...yeah. Time for Tucker to go. If the players can get together and figure things out better than WITH the coaches, that's a HUGE indictment on Tucker. I wonder what he has to say about it?
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Another interesting aspect here is that Trestman is all about building a cohesive single "team", rather than siloed groups. He mixes the locker room, but the defensive backs don't know what the defensive line is doing? Here is the "cobbled together" coaching staff Boris mentioned in the other thread. These two ideas couldn't be more dissonant and leads to a situation where the team has no brand, no culture, no identity, no success.
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It's hard not to wonder though if this is just white noise... We did just play arguably one of the worst teams in the NFL and it could be a complete coincidence that we saw an improved defensive effort because of that.
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That has a lot to do with it Rusty. The Buc O isn't much better so we won't really know until the Lion game on Thanksgiving. We show well that game and then I believe, until then it is status quo.
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DaDitka
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RustyTrombone wrote:It's hard not to wonder though if this is just white noise... We did just play arguably one of the worst teams in the NFL and it could be a complete coincidence that we saw an improved defensive effort because of that.

Oh...I think the better results were 99% because of the quality of opponent. However, that in no way changes this open display of ZERO faith in the coaching staff....and no matter how you want to twist it, that goes on the HC as well.

These guys think their coaches are not doing a good job and not getting their jobs done....and who's their 'supervisor'.

They don't care who 'hired' Mel....Mel was retained by Marc, he works for Marc, and that's exactly there way every one of those players see it (not just the 'Lovie holdovers')
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UOK wrote:“Some of the checks the D-line makes, we never knew anything about them,” Jennings said. “We never knew anything about it, we never knew why they do it. For them to kind of explain and give us reasons why Jared (Allen) might check this because of a different front and different plays they like to run, now we know all that.”
What a sad state of affairs we're in.
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This really changes perspective for me. For the longest time i thought it was a sour loccker room that was tuning out Tucker. When in fact they were actually doing what they were individually coached to do. When they finally tune Tucker out, they come together as a group. Yeah the opponent wasn't super, but they at least looked like a cohesive unit. That's probably WHY guys like Briggs, Allen, Mundy, and Jennings played better.

Now having said that...these guys don't live in a bubble. They know Trestman had little to do with Tucker being here. I can't imagine them damning Trestman because Tucker doesn't know what the hell is happening. If anything they are probably pissed at the front office.
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wab wrote:Now having said that...these guys don't live in a bubble. They know Trestman had little to do with Tucker being here. I can't imagine them damning Trestman because Tucker doesn't know what the hell is happening. If anything they are probably pissed at the front office.
I sure hope you're right....but these are competitors that are getting embarrassed in front of the entire nation every Sunday, and Trestman is the head coach. He may not have hired Mel...but it was his call to bring him back. It was his call to publicly not only support him, but to praise him two weeks ago.

I hope you've vision (of the situation) is correct...I just can't get see it.

Is Mel was 'forced' on Marc just another Lovie's scheme was 'forced' on Mel?

What exactly is Marc's job here? What is is responsible for? What isn't everyone else's fault?

Honest questions.....Like I said, I flip-flop on Trestman every day.

But I can honesty say that after reading this post today.....I'm back on the 'show him the curb side'

And I'm sure I read something tomorrow that will have me back to wanting to see him get a third year.
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For a guy who was thought as a head coaching candidate not all that long ago this drop off is absurd. I think it's generally accepted the left hand doesn't talk to the right. This is an ugly prognosis.

Though on a positive note. I am glad the players are standing up and doing something about it. Maybe they have more heart then previously thought.
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I don't understand why Trestman isn't considered fully responsible for Tucker. Even if he didn't unilaterally hire him... allowing the defense to operate ineffectively is still ON Trestman. Isn't it? I mean seriously.

And for the defensive veterans to figure out some fixes on their own last week (whether they are successful or not)... isn't that a huge indictment of Trestman as well as Tucker? They just had 50+ dropped on them in consecutive games... and Trestman doesn't have a microscope on the defense from a quality control perspective, and "coaching" 'Tucker on making changes to what he's doing?

This is leadership (lack of it, from the coaches including HC). I don't care if people think it is generic, meaningless meatbally, non-football criticism. It is still darn true. There is no coaching leadership on this team.
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Holy balls did my phone pick a bad day to die. If this is true then Tucker should have been fired yesterday. For fuck's sake!
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G08 wrote:Holy balls did my phone pick a bad day to die. If this is true then Tucker should have been fired yesterday. For fuck's sake!
Agreed. It is astonishing to me.

And again - why just Tucker, G? Do we really want a HC that doesn't even care to observe and correct the D after huge blowout losses? This action by the defense was due to a lack of action at any level by a coach. To me, it is clear that Trestman in his pressers is just repeating what he's told about what the defense is doing to fix things. I haven't heard him once say, "I was in their meetings, and Tuck and I are doing (whatever) to change the approach and right the ship". He just drops a few buzz words, and then goes back to talking about individual offensive plays in minute detail. The guy DOES NOT CARE AT ALL about defense.
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He doesn't coordinate the defense, IE. I don't know many head coaches that coordinate the other side of the ball, save for the best in the business (Belichick).

Trestman came into the NFL as a brilliant offensive mind, those are the coattails he rode into Chicago, just like his predecessor on the other side of the ball did 10 years ago. The hope was that Rod Marinelli would stick around, when when he gave us the big F-U, Emery panicked and found the only loser that would run another man's defense: Mel Tucker (because Trestman sure as hell didn't have anyone in mind).

Short-sighted and incompetent by Emery, but that's not the point of this post.

Rewind to the off-season and after "extensive meetings" Emery and Trestman decided to keep Tucker. Was it because they couldn't think of anybody else? Was it because they thought more experienced teachers (albeit not from this defensive scheme) would help bridge the gap? Who really knows.

After reading this from Tim Jennings though, my God. The whole fucking defensive operation should be blown to Kingdom Come.

We need someone who can put in HIS system, and bring in HIS guys to teach it.

Say it with me: Will Muschamp.
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‏@ZachZaidman Lance Briggs on players-only film session: "Did we have that?"
:roll:

EDIT:

Tweeted out of context. Ignore.
Last edited by G08 on Wed Nov 19, 2014 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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He conferenced in from his car on his way to Burger King.
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IE wrote:I don't understand why Trestman isn't considered fully responsible for Tucker. Even if he didn't unilaterally hire him... allowing the defense to operate ineffectively is still ON Trestman. Isn't it? I mean seriously.
Couldn't agree more. I don't understand how anyone sees id differently, but football players aren't exactly scholars so who knows how they 'see' the situation.
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G08 wrote:He doesn't coordinate the defense, IE. I don't know many head coaches that coordinate the other side of the ball, save for the best in the business (Belichick).

Trestman came into the NFL as a brilliant offensive mind, those are the coattails he rode into Chicago, just like his predecessor on the other side of the ball did 10 years ago. The hope was that Rod Marinelli would stick around, when when he gave us the big F-U, Emery panicked and found the only loser that would run another man's defense: Mel Tucker (because Trestman sure as hell didn't have anyone in mind).
not so sure Trestman didn't have someone in mind ... but the decision on the defensive side seems wasn't his to make ... not even sure if Emery even asked him

G08 wrote:Short-sighted and incompetent by Emery, but that's not the point of this post.
if Emery truly did have all his defensive eggs in the Marinelli basket, then that is shortsighted and incompetent beyond belief and worthy of its own mention and point within this post

G08 wrote:Rewind to the off-season and after "extensive meetings" Emery and Trestman decided to keep Tucker. Was it because they couldn't think of anybody else? Was it because they thought more experienced teachers (albeit not from this defensive scheme) would help bridge the gap? Who really knows.

After reading this from Tim Jennings though, my God. The whole fucking defensive operation should be blown to Kingdom Come.
there is no legitimate reason why Tucker was not fired during the bye week ... that would have given his promoted replacement 2 weeks to attempt some sort of back to basics rescue mission

G08 wrote:We need someone who can put in HIS system, and bring in HIS guys to teach it.
agreed

G08 wrote:Say it with me: Will Muschamp.
well, you are on this guy's bandwagon that's for sure ... care to delve into the details as to why?

maybe that deserves a thread of its own
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I don't know a ton about Muschamp. But what I've read, he's kind of a Nick Saban style flake.
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wab wrote:I don't know a ton about Muschamp. But what I've read, he's kind of a Nick Saban style flake.

I despise Nick Saban

if Muschamp is his clone, that means an NFL team will hire him, he'll realize he can talk the talk but can't walk the walk, then scurry back to college for a big payday
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Well Muschamp is Saban's guy. They have been on the same staffs for years.

Fun Fact: Muschamp was reportedly Saban's choice for DC if Saban would've taken the Bears job.
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I am just getting tired of all the unproven guys (no HC experience) this team runs through. I say it is time for the organization to go balls out and get the "man." Be it Cowher, Shanahan or any other good ex-head coach out there. Give them some control and lets get away from the circus that is passing thru town right now. It is a fucking joke.
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Otis Day wrote:I am just getting tired of all the unproven guys (no HC experience) this team runs through. I say it is time for the organization to go balls out and get the "man." Be it Cowher, Shanahan or any other good ex-head coach out there. Give them some control and lets get away from the circus that is passing thru town right now. It is a fucking joke.
FWIW...I've heard three people that know Cower well (two that work with him, one good fried) that said he has a 'good life now' and they don't believe he has any interest in going back to the sidelines.

I'm sure the right $$$$$ could change that, but do you really want a guy that isn't sure he wants to coach anymore?
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WagonForce wrote:
UOK wrote:“Some of the checks the D-line makes, we never knew anything about them,” Jennings said. “We never knew anything about it, we never knew why they do it. For them to kind of explain and give us reasons why Jared (Allen) might check this because of a different front and different plays they like to run, now we know all that.”
What a sad state of affairs we're in.
This is really disturbing, but I am putting a whole lot more of this on Tucker than Trestman. Trestman was hired to run the offense (which is a completely different topic), and was given Tucker to run the defense. It is Tucker's job to make sure that the defensive message is getting out to the players. Trestman can ask him to do it, but can't do it for him. Tucker needs to make sure that the coaches are coaching the defensive philosophy (assuming there is one) at all levels and at all positions. He is the defensive COORDINATOR. From this post, it doesn't appear he's coordinating anything at all. If we see another semi-good performance from the Bears defense this week, in light of this "players only meeting" then it closes the book on Tucker. The players had to take control and turn the defense around, because he couldn't.

Not a fan of Muschamp. He just seems very wishy-washy. I agree that if he was on the Bears, and all of the sudden had a lucrative opportunity back in college, he would bolt in a heartbeat.
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Otis Day wrote:I am just getting tired of all the unproven guys (no HC experience) this team runs through. I say it is time for the organization to go balls out and get the "man." Be it Cowher, Shanahan or any other good ex-head coach out there
I don't disagree...but they are ex head coaches for a reason.

Like DD said, some may not want to come back like Cowher and Gruden. There are some that the game has passed by. There are some (like Shanny) that are too stubborn or control hungry.

Out of all the ex head coaches out there that are available, Shanny is the only one I think would work here. But, you only have about a 4 year window. He's a mercenary that you hire to win you a Super Bowl, but his shine won't last longer than a few seasons.
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wab wrote:I don't know a ton about Muschamp. But what I've read, he's kind of a Nick Saban style flake.
I don't know that I'd call him a flake, unless you're referring to his propensity to job hop... Regardless dude knows defense. Each year in college that he's coached defense they've been ranked top 8. He's an aggressive, no-nonsense guy, which I think will resonate well with the youth movement we have on defense. He loves him some Jon Bostic too.

He was 34 the only year he was a DC in the NFL, and they ranked 15th in the NFL.

Runs a lot of press-man on the outside and exotic blitzes on obvious passing downs. Pre-snap/post-snap confusion, exactly what I want in a defensive coordinator.

There's talk of big programs wanting him as their DC... I'm hoping he steps up to the League.
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