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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:11 pm 
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/fo ... story.html
Quote:

Are Smith’s requests for such broad protections unusual or unreasonable?


That depends on whom you ask. No one disputes that guaranteed money should be subject to forfeiture if a player commits a crime (i.e. domestic abuse) or violates the league’s drug policies. But opinions differ when it comes to on-field, in-game discipline.

Seven other teams have executed contracts that include clauses protecting a first-round draft pick’s guaranteed money if he is suspended for an illegal hit. Only four of 32 teams have executed contracts with the broader behavioral protections that Smith seeks, one source said.

Smith has nothing in his background to suggest he’ll be ever be suspended for any misconduct. So why are his agents insisting upon these provisions for him specifically? And why would the Bears dig in to protect themselves against such an improbable scenario?

This is where the impasse goes beyond Roquan Smith and involves precedent for future contracts.

Smith’s agents aren’t just fighting to protect every dime Smith can earn. They’re also fighting for their future business. They want to be able to hold up Smith’s contract in recruiting meetings and show draft prospects how they scrap and claw for their clients. They want to negotiate with other teams and say that because the Bears agreed to these protections, they’re the new standard.

Meanwhile, the Bears aren’t worried that Smith will be a behavior problem on or off the field. To them, this is about the principle of having leeway to assess punitive damages for a rules violation outside the parameters of a football play. They’d rather not sacrifice that authority. For any player.

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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:18 pm 
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ah ... that makes things much more clear

thanks UOK

however, I also have a question I don't seem to find being addressed elsewhere

the current CBA expires in 2020 ... so until then, the players and owners are supposed to abide by the terms agreed upon in the current CBA

so why do the owners now get to change rules regarding how player infractions are addressed in 2018? shouldn't the owners also have to wait until the current CBA expires? I think they should, but that is not how it is ... the owners get to do what they want with a simple majority vote ... which seems unfair to me and creates a very uneven negotiation playing field ... so it doesn't surprise me players aren't thrilled

in this case though I think Smith's agent may be over playing his hand ... he seems to want to make this some larger issue than simply taking care of his client

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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:33 pm 
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What I find interesting is that this whole battle starts because of one word... GUARANTEED. I believe this is the word from the mutually agreed upon rookie salary cap calculation agreement, established some years ago. It doesn't say just salary, bonus or payment. It uses that particular descriptor. And by making certain payments "guaranteed", that means you get them no matter what. (If not, why didn't they say "conditionally guaranteed"?)

I could be wrong, but I'm getting the feeling that NFL teams are trying to skirt around something they've already agreed to in collective bargaining. Now in the court of public opinion, it's easy to argue that promises to pay can and should be rightly withheld if the player behaves badly. But from a legal standpoint, saying certain payments are "guaranteed" and then later saying they're guaranteed, unless..., then morally right or wrong, that boils down to a player and his agent conceding ground they've already bargained (conceding other things) to gain.

Am I reading this wrong?

Also, I'm very glad that the first of the 3 previously linked articles had one writer rightly place blame on the NFL, which I find to be vastly ignored in this discussion. By making rule changes vague enough to have players, agents and teams entirely unclear about how enforcement will play out, you motivate agents to protect their clients from costly outcomes which aren't always avoidable. I'm frankly surprised there haven't been more holdouts like this one.

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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 3:56 pm 
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If the Bears exempted suspensions from the helmet rule, as has been reported even though not listed in the article above, CAA needs to go pound sand. Roquan needs to step up and tell them enough is enough and get in camp. 4 other teams were stupid enough to put language in, it does not mean the Bears need to as well. Get in the boat with the 7 other teams until people see how this new rule plays out.


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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Read this on another board and found it thought provoking...

Quote:
I have this sense that Roquan isn't worried about a ref bump or fight. I think he wants to be the first Bear to kneel for the anthem and he wants to protect his money if he were to do so. He has seen CK get cold shouldered and if he were to suck ass and then want to turn himself into a spectacle, he wants to have financial protections. Kneeling for the anthem in Soldier Field would be big news and by the way he has conducted himself as a college recruit and an unsigned rookie reeks of someone wanting to make a "bigger picture" gesture.

Whether you would love it or hate it matters not, that is would my sixth sense says this is about. He just isn't saying what non football action he wants to be protected from losing money as a result of doing.

My reasoning is that as a gifted athlete he is supremely confident in his skills and has little fear the Bears would strip money away from him as has never been done before as a result of a football fight. That fear would be a completely illogical reason to hold out this long and he knows it.
However, there is no barometer of how Ginny or George would react to a knelling Bear or what clause they may use to punish him to dissuade him from that action. That is what I think he wants his freedom to do.

I know that comes out there from left field, but holding out for the "fighting" issue is like picketing city hall for the right to jaywalk without fear of prosecution, sure technically it could happen, but is the non-issue worth the effort. I think he has other, possibly more divisive actions he wants protection to perform. I doubt he even knows what those may be, but I think, as he has proven, he likes to be on the leading edge of change and that may mean he wants to act in a provocative way in a Bears uniform.


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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Adipost wrote:
Read this on another board and found it thought provoking...

Quote:
I have this sense that Roquan isn't worried about a ref bump or fight. I think he wants to be the first Bear to kneel for the anthem and he wants to protect his money if he were to do so. He has seen CK get cold shouldered and if he were to suck ass and then want to turn himself into a spectacle, he wants to have financial protections. Kneeling for the anthem in Soldier Field would be big news and by the way he has conducted himself as a college recruit and an unsigned rookie reeks of someone wanting to make a "bigger picture" gesture.

Whether you would love it or hate it matters not, that is would my sixth sense says this is about. He just isn't saying what non football action he wants to be protected from losing money as a result of doing.

My reasoning is that as a gifted athlete he is supremely confident in his skills and has little fear the Bears would strip money away from him as has never been done before as a result of a football fight. That fear would be a completely illogical reason to hold out this long and he knows it.
However, there is no barometer of how Ginny or George would react to a knelling Bear or what clause they may use to punish him to dissuade him from that action. That is what I think he wants his freedom to do.

I know that comes out there from left field, but holding out for the "fighting" issue is like picketing city hall for the right to jaywalk without fear of prosecution, sure technically it could happen, but is the non-issue worth the effort. I think he has other, possibly more divisive actions he wants protection to perform. I doubt he even knows what those may be, but I think, as he has proven, he likes to be on the leading edge of change and that may mean he wants to act in a provocative way in a Bears uniform.


Thought crossed my mind but I don't believe George McCaskey would fine a player for kneeling during the anthem. I also don't believe the NFL has a strict mandate (currently, anyway) that states a fine would occur for doing so.

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 Post subject: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Boris13c wrote:
UOK wrote:
@Bernstein_McK

"The Bears are very dug in. They believe the precedent (on-field, non-football related fines) is unacceptable." -Dan Bernstein on the Roquan Smith situation, adding there has been zero contact between the two parties




that is a very strange quote

so the Bears find the current system of fines unacceptable?

maybe Bernstein was drinking when he posted that

The precedent for giving in regarding the off field discipline stuff would be unacceptable. Pretty sure that’s how that should read.


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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:17 pm 
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"on field, non-football related fines." On field, key two words. This is not about behavior OFF the football field. "On Field." Like the quote above states, maybe kneeling during the anthem, maybe getting kicked out of a game for a retaliatory punch, criticizing refs..........


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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:23 pm 
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..ass raping an official..dropping Trousers and mooning the Pope ?

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 Post subject: Re: Roquan Smith Holdout
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:33 am 
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**Hypothetical question and not what I think is going to happen**
What happens if he just doesn't sign? Does he have to go back into the draft? Does he become a free agent and anyone can pick him up? Do the bears get any compensation if he never signs?

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