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Eriebear
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I've been a Bear Fan since I saw Gale Sayers in High School . This is the worst I've ever seen . Nagy is full of shit . His Rah - Rah speeches now fall on Deaf Ears . He's not a HC , just a Cheer Leader . Tell me the last time he out coached anyone ? The next thing is , Bears " Management " won't fire him ,or any body . Jim Finks was our last good judge of talent , think about that . Pace just loves trading picks ( Except for Fields , if he don't get killed ) and now W/ our Cap , we can't "Rebuild " again ! The next thing is Desani has to learn how to play PASS DEFENSE when we have a lead in the 4th. QT. ! THAT has lost us TWO games ! Hey ! Play D to keep the ball in front of you! The Players have a right to quit on the Coaching , as some of them have said
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It is depressing, which is the norm for the Bears. The only good thing is that for the first time in a long while, they’re not going into an offseason looking to draft a decent QB.
The Bears lost a close game to the Dolphins but why is it that the sun shined brighter, the air seemed cleaner, the sausages smelled sausagier, and the Soldier Field grass actually seemed greener.
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Anyone anointing Fields as a 'decent QB' at this stage is rather getting ahead of themselves. The guy has done nothing at this stage other than flash promise. We all hope he's going to be more than decent, but he's got a long way to go yet.

The biggest issue is that Nagy is going to be fired and yet again we're going to have a new head coach who didn't select the young QB he's going to have to work with. If Pace is fired as well then that will go for the new GM too. It's not a good situation to be in at all. Personally I'd keep Pace around for the duration of the next head coach's tenure and if things don't pan out then fire them together and give their successors a clean slate.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:51 pm Anyone anointing Fields as a 'decent QB' at this stage is rather getting ahead of themselves. The guy has done nothing at this stage other than flash promise. We all hope he's going to be more than decent, but he's got a long way to go yet.

The biggest issue is that Nagy is going to be fired and yet again we're going to have a new head coach who didn't select the young QB he's going to have to work with. If Pace is fired as well then that will go for the new GM too. It's not a good situation to be in at all. Personally I'd keep Pace around for the duration of the next head coach's tenure and if things don't pan out then fire them together and give their successors a clean slate.
There's absolutely no way anyone should crown a QB, or give up on him, during his rookie year. In particular when they have really awful circumstances, which a neutral observer would agree is the case here in Chicago. Fields has flashed, that's a good sign. But, he's also been a turnover machine, that's a bad sign. Hoping obviously that an improved situation plus a year of experience under his belt makes a big difference next season and he becomes a consistent player.
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Artbest
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Fields is a question mark - but one with tremendous upside. It won’t be difficult to find a head coach who wants a chance to work with him or a GM who would welcome the chance to build around him.
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It is tough to Judge Fields right now. The first thing he needs is an offensive line, I mean a good one. Watched the Colts game and man do they have that. Their line punishes people. We need to see what we have in our rookie lineman and build that first. Then a plan that uses the running game and tight ends. Get back to basics. Football isn't about trickery.
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Eriebear wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:33 pm I've been a Bear Fan since I saw Gale Sayers in High School . This is the worst I've ever seen . Nagy is full of shit . His Rah - Rah speeches now fall on Deaf Ears . He's not a HC , just a Cheer Leader . Tell me the last time he out coached anyone ? The next thing is , Bears " Management " won't fire him ,or any body . Jim Finks was our last good judge of talent , think about that . Pace just loves trading picks ( Except for Fields , if he don't get killed ) and now W/ our Cap , we can't "Rebuild " again ! The next thing is Desani has to learn how to play PASS DEFENSE when we have a lead in the 4th. QT. ! THAT has lost us TWO games ! Hey ! Play D to keep the ball in front of you! The Players have a right to quit on the Coaching , as some of them have said
Man, Sayers was in high school like in the '50s. You ARE old! :)

There are reasons we can be be relatively confident about JF1 as at least a really good QB (that he has a high floor):
- He is not a turnover machine. He's still fumbling once a game but isn't fumbling 3 times a game any more. And more often than not, his INTs have been tipped from his own receivers and not thrown to the opposition. He's been protecting the ball really well throwing it.
- His arm talent cannot be disputed. I don't know how anyone else can have watched some of the passes he's thrown on a time and up the seam or running to his left and call that "flashing". Him leading the league in some advanced passing stats (deep passing stats) given the circumstances is incredible. That's not flashing that's just showing what he is.
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Eriebear wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:33 pm I've been a Bear Fan since I saw Gale Sayers in High School . This is the worst I've ever seen . Nagy is full of shit . His Rah - Rah speeches now fall on Deaf Ears . He's not a HC , just a Cheer Leader . Tell me the last time he out coached anyone ? The next thing is , Bears " Management " won't fire him ,or any body . Jim Finks was our last good judge of talent , think about that . Pace just loves trading picks ( Except for Fields , if he don't get killed ) and now W/ our Cap , we can't "Rebuild " again ! The next thing is Desani has to learn how to play PASS DEFENSE when we have a lead in the 4th. QT. ! THAT has lost us TWO games ! Hey ! Play D to keep the ball in front of you! The Players have a right to quit on the Coaching , as some of them have said
Desani? LOL. Nice.

I think nobody wanted the Bears DC job knowing that Nagy was on a short leash so why take that risk?
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The cigarette has been passed from Jay Cutler to Justin Fields.
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IE wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 7:39 am Man, Sayers was in high school like in the '50s. You ARE old! :)

There are reasons we can be be relatively confident about JF1 as at least a really good QB (that he has a high floor):
- He is not a turnover machine. He's still fumbling once a game but isn't fumbling 3 times a game any more. And more often than not, his INTs have been tipped from his own receivers and not thrown to the opposition. He's been protecting the ball really well throwing it.
- His arm talent cannot be disputed. I don't know how anyone else can have watched some of the passes he's thrown on a time and up the seam or running to his left and call that "flashing". Him leading the league in some advanced passing stats (deep passing stats) given the circumstances is incredible. That's not flashing that's just showing what he is.
Eriebear's making docc feel young! :D

The reason Fields is 'flashing' is precisely because he's made some impressive throws, but he's also missed a lot of reads. He may lead the league in air yards per attempt and completion, but overall his yards per completion ranks only 25th. He's thrown twice as many INTs as TDs and leads the league in fumbles. His INT percentage is the second worse in the league behind only fellow rookie Zach Wilson and the same is true in passer rating. His QBR is the worst in the league. What he is at the moment is a poor performing QB.

Optimism comes from the fact that he's a poor performing QB playing for Matt Nagy and all QBs perform poorly under his leadership and guidance. There are things to like about Fields, not least the way he has carried himself having landed in a lousy situation, and he has potential, but there have been QB's who have impressed far more as rookies and even won rookie of the year who have ultimately been busts. It is much too soon to know how Fields' career will pan out. He's only played a handful of games and had to do so in an inept offense with poor protection and poor preparation. What we can feel confident about is that he's going to be much better off with Nagy gone.

Is this the worst it's ever been? I'm not as old Eriebear, but I'd say no simply because Emery/Trestman was worse. Emery's draft record was appalling. The defense was the worst in franchise history and gave up more than 50 points on multiple occasions, which hasn't happened in 6.5 years under Pace. In fact the defense has only given up 40 or more points 3 times during that span. Under Emery/Trestman they did it 7 times in two years. The offense was very good in their first year but plummeted to 21st in yards and 23rd in points the following season, not much better than Nagy. That second year, with Toub and Hester gone, special teams were awful too. Gould and Feely made only 75% of their FG attempts and missed a couple of extra points. The team averaged a paltry 5.3 yards on punt returns whilst giving up 10.2 yards themselves.

docc assured me the other day in the game chat that things were even worse in the 1970s! I'll have to take his word on that though.
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Artbest wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:31 am Fields is a question mark - but one with tremendous upside. It won’t be difficult to find a head coach who wants a chance to work with him or a GM who would welcome the chance to build around him.
Well, Nagy took the job claiming to be eager to work with Trubisky, too.
The honeymoon lasted all of 1 season, and then it was on to trying to make him fit a system he doesn't fit and trying to replace him with mediocre vets who were better fits.


Having a HC select 'his guy' has value.
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i gotta wonder what new head coach wouldn't want to work with fields. he has all the tools and smarts. what other type of qb is there that a coach would rather have? we all knew trubisky sucked when he was drafted. i'm pretty sure that wasn't the case with fields. i'm still stoked about him and have hope for the future. i had no hope with trubs, just wishful thinking.
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How old am I ? I went to Grade School w/ Maryto !!! I miss "The Coach " . I'm 69
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otis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:37 am we all knew trubisky sucked when he was drafted.
While I was much more positive about Fields, and a solid majority was, too, I'm sure - this statement is hugely false and revisionist.
Trubisky was the top QB on many people's boards and a R1 pick on everyone's.
There were people refusing to let go of "how promising Mitch was" 3.5 years into him showing us who he was.
otis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:37 am i gotta wonder what new head coach wouldn't want to work with fields. he has all the tools and smarts. what other type of qb is there that a coach would rather have?
He checks a lot of boxes, but he isn't Superman across the board. You don't last to 11 if you're a QB perceived excellent in all areas.
His rap coming out was that he handles rush pressure poorly - and all the sacks he's taken (which aren't entirely on the line) speaks to that being not at all fixed at this point.
A coach could very well think "It's great he can do those nifty special things, but I'd rather have a guy who stays calm and sticks to the plays under pressure.".
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Artbest
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While he’s taken too many hits, there’s no evidence Fields isn’t cool under pressure - just the opposite. If anything, at times, he’s too cool under pressure - which can get him into trouble.

The open question with fields imo is whether he can see the whole field, read a defense and process quickly.

I doubt every coach covets an opportunity to work with him - I don’t see Josh McDaniels jumping at the chance. Brian Daboll? Kellen Moore? Byron Leftwich? Greg Roman? I’m guessing theyd love the opportunity

Moriarty wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:53 pm
otis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:37 am we all knew trubisky sucked when he was drafted.
While I was much more positive about Fields, and a solid majority was, too, I'm sure - this statement is hugely false and revisionist.
Trubisky was the top QB on many people's boards and a R1 pick on everyone's.
There were people refusing to let go of "how promising Mitch was" 3.5 years into him showing us who he was.
otis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:37 am i gotta wonder what new head coach wouldn't want to work with fields. he has all the tools and smarts. what other type of qb is there that a coach would rather have?
He checks a lot of boxes, but he isn't Superman across the board. You don't last to 11 if you're a QB perceived excellent in all areas.
His rap coming out was that he handles rush pressure poorly - and all the sacks he's taken (which aren't entirely on the line) speaks to that being not at all fixed at this point.
A coach could very well think "It's great he can do those nifty special things, but I'd rather have a guy who stays calm and sticks to the plays under pressure.".
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 4:53 pm
otis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:37 am we all knew trubisky sucked when he was drafted.
While I was much more positive about Fields, and a solid majority was, too, I'm sure - this statement is hugely false and revisionist.
Trubisky was the top QB on many people's boards and a R1 pick on everyone's.
There were people refusing to let go of "how promising Mitch was" 3.5 years into him showing us who he was.
otis wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:37 am i gotta wonder what new head coach wouldn't want to work with fields. he has all the tools and smarts. what other type of qb is there that a coach would rather have?
He checks a lot of boxes, but he isn't Superman across the board. You don't last to 11 if you're a QB perceived excellent in all areas.
His rap coming out was that he handles rush pressure poorly - and all the sacks he's taken (which aren't entirely on the line) speaks to that being not at all fixed at this point.
A coach could very well think "It's great he can do those nifty special things, but I'd rather have a guy who stays calm and sticks to the plays under pressure.".
I largely agree except the part about calm under pressure

The problem seems that he is cool under pressure - just his internal clock is set to "Once Im hit"

Bit of a pyrrhic victory if Im right on that semantic argument
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All I know is I was pissed when they drafted him. No need to rehash it all. I don't feel the same way about fields. He's not perfect but maybe he could be. That wasn't ever an option with trubisky.
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