Updates on Jenkins and Borom

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IE
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wab wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:11 am
They drafted Jenkins to play LT. They have to see if he can play LT.

They drafted Borom to play RG and/or RT. They have to see if he can continue to improve where he's at before you just uproot the dude and move him to the left.

If none of that works, then you go to plan B and move people around.
Sorry - the draft is ancient history. A lot of people were fretting about Jenkins playing LT, and the assumptions Pace made around that. Many were hopeful - but not many were "confident" that was the long-term answer.

I maintain that with the most current information the picture has dramatically changed. Borom's actually played LT in the NFL and pretty much looked like an NFL LT. Jenkins hasn't. I think we strongly believe Jenkins could be a stud on the right. Borom's also played reasonably well on the right - but he hasn't grown roots anywhere. He's played as well on the left as he has on the right. Again - if Peters goes down, they uproot Borom anyway... right? The one thing we know is there IS a RT of the future on this team.

What we don't know is "is there the LT of the future on this team" - and that has to be the most important question. If Borom is playing over there and looking good then that answers the question and gives you super important information for the draft - no way are you going to draft an LT high with the Bears' limited draft capital if you have an acceptable starter in Borom and a potential additional starter at LT in Jenkins. Jenkins can compete for & earn the LT spot next year. Either can play on the right. The main question is how set is the left? You don't know that nearly as well by inserting Jenkins at LT, potentially watching him struggle a bit (naturally) and then concluding that you have to invest in yet another LT when you in fact may already have two.
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Why does it matter? We need to see Jenkins play, that much is clear. And we need to see him play at T, RT or LT doesn't matter. Borom is currently at RT and Jenkins has said he's more comfortable at LT, there doesn't appear to be any logical reason to force them to flip. We don't really know Jenkins is going to be good anywhere, he hasn't played at all yet - so assuming he'd be great at RT is a stretch. We don't really know if we have a RT on this team, or a LT on this team. We have Borom, who has looked pretty decent at both spots but isn't a lock to be great. And we have Jenkins, who hasn't played at all and we have no idea if he'd be better at RT or LT - he seems to prefer LT. I just want him to get live game action for his own development and for our GM's understanding of where we stand heading into the offseason. It seems to me that the easiest thing to do here is let Borom continue to settle in at RT and play Jenkins at his own preferred LT spot - make it as easy on Jenkins as possible.

As long as he plays I'm happy. If we sit him, while healthy, out of an abundance of caution or because we foolishly believe we can win now and Peters is an important piece - then I'll be unhappy. We need to think forward here.
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dplank wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:53 pm Why does it matter? We need to see Jenkins play, that much is clear. And we need to see him play at T, RT or LT doesn't matter. Borom is currently at RT and Jenkins has said he's more comfortable at LT, there doesn't appear to be any logical reason to force them to flip. We don't really know Jenkins is going to be good anywhere, he hasn't played at all yet - so assuming he'd be great at RT is a stretch. We don't really know if we have a RT on this team, or a LT on this team. We have Borom, who has looked pretty decent at both spots but isn't a lock to be great. And we have Jenkins, who hasn't played at all and we have no idea if he'd be better at RT or LT - he seems to prefer LT. I just want him to get live game action for his own development and for our GM's understanding of where we stand heading into the offseason. It seems to me that the easiest thing to do here is let Borom continue to settle in at RT and play Jenkins at his own preferred LT spot - make it as easy on Jenkins as possible.

As long as he plays I'm happy. If we sit him, while healthy, out of an abundance of caution or because we foolishly believe we can win now and Peters is an important piece - then I'll be unhappy. We need to think forward here.
I agree it is important to get Jenkins playing. I think it should be fine to ease him in, and spelling the OTs and going in as an extra OL like Lazor likes to do would be a good way.

I think the draft is the main reason it matters WHERE they play. The question is what I like to call a "high class problem" (choosing between 2 good options). To me the scale tilts to Borom on the left because Borom could definitively take LT off the table for the draft. Jenkins seems less likely to, IMO. IF Jenkins struggles on the left and Borom doesn't get more looks there, the GM could conclude he doesn't have a LT. It is too important to get wrong.

I agree with you Peters isn't the priority. But if they start winning and can make a run with Peters I'm all on board with that. If they lose 3 of the next 4, then certainly retire Peters. UNTIL that time I think Jenkins should come in to spell both Peters and Borom (and Bars in his heavy package role) to get his sea legs.
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dplank wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:17 am
The Cooler King wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:26 am If Borom has settled in at RT I'm good with not rocking the boat.

I'll die on the hill that people make too much of L/R alignment. You don't want guys to constantly switch, but it's mainly a reps thing. And in today's NFL I want well rounded pass and run blockers on both spots. The old stereotypes of LT v RT need not apply IMO. If Borom is good on the right and Jenkins can stick on the left, I'm not worried about possibly not maximizing their roles in those spots.

The bigger issue really is just how quickly Jenkins should see reps and who's the odd man out if he does, plus how to move the other 3 in concert.
It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).
This is it. If Jenkins shows enough in practice that leads the coaches to believe he won't be an absolute liability you plug him into the spot where you hope he can play. I also don't want to see Mustipher come out. I know he doesn't look good enough right now but he's not not giving up bone crunching sacks left, right and, um, centre, so you keep him going and hope he improves.

Peters has done a commendable job and deserves lots of props, but he isn't in the Team's future so we can't be sentimental about it.
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dplank wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:17 am
The Cooler King wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:26 am If Borom has settled in at RT I'm good with not rocking the boat.

I'll die on the hill that people make too much of L/R alignment. You don't want guys to constantly switch, but it's mainly a reps thing. And in today's NFL I want well rounded pass and run blockers on both spots. The old stereotypes of LT v RT need not apply IMO. If Borom is good on the right and Jenkins can stick on the left, I'm not worried about possibly not maximizing their roles in those spots.

The bigger issue really is just how quickly Jenkins should see reps and who's the odd man out if he does, plus how to move the other 3 in concert.
It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).
The way the NFC looks right now, the Bears still have a mathmatical shot at a wild card, that's how weak the wild card race is. Jenkins may be subbed in for series when Peters needs a rest but won't get entire games until the team is out of it.
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Grizzled wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:13 am
dplank wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:17 am

It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).
The way the NFC looks right now, the Bears still have a mathmatical shot at a wild card, that's how weak the wild card race is. Jenkins may be subbed in for series when Peters needs a rest but won't get entire games until the team is out of it.
Another reason the extra playoff slot is pure shit.

Unless you're Lions level bad, you're always "in contention" (to squeeze into the playoffs and get pancaked by a team that's completely on a different level), so playing for the future - which happened far too little already, now becomes even rarer in the NFL.
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Moriarty wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:23 am
Grizzled wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:13 am

The way the NFC looks right now, the Bears still have a mathmatical shot at a wild card, that's how weak the wild card race is. Jenkins may be subbed in for series when Peters needs a rest but won't get entire games until the team is out of it.
Another reason the extra playoff slot is pure shit.

Unless you're Lions level bad, you're always "in contention" (to squeeze into the playoffs and get pancaked by a team that's completely on a different level), so playing for the future - which happened far too little already, now becomes even rarer in the NFL.
The NFL sees this as a feature, not a bug.
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thunderspirit wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:25 am
Moriarty wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 11:23 am

Another reason the extra playoff slot is pure shit.

Unless you're Lions level bad, you're always "in contention" (to squeeze into the playoffs and get pancaked by a team that's completely on a different level), so playing for the future - which happened far too little already, now becomes even rarer in the NFL.
The NFL sees this as a feature, not a bug.
I know they do.
That's where the extra layer of bile comes from.

:flick: , NFL

And while I'm at it, one for making players play on 3 days rest, when you really don't have to :flick:
One for coddling your pets, like the Patriots and Aaron Rodgers :flick:
One for not doing anything to improve the officiating, even though there are options that wouldn't even be that hard :flick:
And a spare because I'm sure I'm forgetting something :flick:
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malk wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:23 am
dplank wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:17 am

It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).
This is it. If Jenkins shows enough in practice that leads the coaches to believe he won't be an absolute liability you plug him into the spot where you hope he can play. I also don't want to see Mustipher come out. I know he doesn't look good enough right now but he's not not giving up bone crunching sacks left, right and, um, centre, so you keep him going and hope he improves.

Peters has done a commendable job and deserves lots of props, but he isn't in the Team's future so we can't be sentimental about it.
I watched a good interview with Olin Kreutz on TTNL last night, with the focus very much on the offensive line. He defended Mustipher, who he's worked with, suggested that Daniels' problem with playing center was making the line calls which not everyone can do, talked about Peters and how he's helping the young guys on the field, and talks about the development of Borum and Jenkins amongst other things.

The interview starts around the 33 minute mark and the discussions about the tackles at around the hour mark. Well worth a watch.

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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:25 pm
malk wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 10:23 am

This is it. If Jenkins shows enough in practice that leads the coaches to believe he won't be an absolute liability you plug him into the spot where you hope he can play. I also don't want to see Mustipher come out. I know he doesn't look good enough right now but he's not not giving up bone crunching sacks left, right and, um, centre, so you keep him going and hope he improves.

Peters has done a commendable job and deserves lots of props, but he isn't in the Team's future so we can't be sentimental about it.
I watched a good interview with Olin Kreutz on TTNL last night, with the focus very much on the offensive line. He defended Mustipher, who he's worked with, suggested that Daniels' problem with playing center was making the line calls which not everyone can do, talked about Peters and how he's helping the young guys on the field, and talks about the development of Borum and Jenkins amongst other things.

The interview starts around the 33 minute mark and the discussions about the tackles at around the hour mark. Well worth a watch.

Thanks!! Didn't know this was out and really like Kruetz's perspective generally
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:25 pm He defended Mustipher, who he's worked with, suggested that Daniels' problem with playing center was making the line calls which not everyone can do, talked about Peters and how he's helping the young guys on the field, and talks about the development of Borum and Jenkins amongst other things.
That's one thing about Olin's opinion.
While I respect his knowledge, I wonder if he's gotten so friendly and invested with Mustipher, that his outlook may not be very objective or useful anymore.
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Draft Doctor Phil is very critical of Mustipher and has been all season, although he recognised that the Steelers game was Mustipher's best of the season. In their exchanges Kreutz challenged him to name centers he would rather have which left Phil floundering. Kreutz obviously takes an extra interest in the center position and said he could highlight instances of other centers struggling at the point of attack, including the Steelers' center against Goldman. The thing is PFF have Mustipher ranked 36th out of 39 qualifying centers in their rankings. As much as I don't put much stock in PFF these days, it would have been interesting for that to have put to Kreutz. As he said, there are not 32 quality centers in the league. When you're not even ranked in the top 32 then that really does suggest you're not up to the job!

Anyway, I didn't want to get too much into the parts in the interview about Mustipher because this thread is about Jenkins and Borom.
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Creed Humphrey - done Olin
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And I have been very bullish on what Ive seen from Borom

Not on my radar at all going into Draft - but looks solid (*)

(*) One caveat being I dont know if its a Jordan Mills situation where looking close to competent as Rookie when alternative was terrible causes folks (me included) to overrate him
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From the Sun Times:
The Bears opened the three-week window Monday for rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins to return from injured reserve, but have yet to activate him. They have to add him to the roster no later than next week against the Cardinals or he’ll be ineligible the rest of the season.
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:12 am From the Sun Times:
The Bears opened the three-week window Monday for rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins to return from injured reserve, but have yet to activate him. They have to add him to the roster no later than next week against the Cardinals or he’ll be ineligible the rest of the season.
Seems like he's making progress. Also they can activate him on the 53 even if he might be a week away from being gameday active. Not a all or nothing thing. I'm sure he will go in the 53 by the deadline.
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Have to put him on the 53 - but really really really should be wary on playing him

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Small nugget from the Sun Times:
The Bears should thank veteran Jason Peters for a job well done and play rookie Teven Jenkins at left tackle if Jenkins is activated from injured reserve next week after undergoing back surgery in August.

Unless the Bears suddenly morph into a playoff-caliber team against the Cardinals, they’ll be on the fringe of the playoff picture at best and should give Jenkins a head start on 2022. Nagy didn’t sound too interested in that, when asked about it Monday.
Oh, and this for what it's worth:
Former Bears left tackle Charles Leno has one penalty in 11 games this season with Washington after having 40 in his previous four seasons with the Bears. … Leno is ranked 14th among NFL offensive tackles this season by Pro Football Focus. Peters is ranked 21st.
Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2021 ... ting-bears
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I don’t think we’ll ever come to consensus on who should have stayed/gone last off-season but we can def agree that mistakes were made and the Jason Peters Hail Mary was critical to the Bears even fielding a mediocre team at this point
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HisRoyalSweetness wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:10 pm Small nugget from the Sun Times:
The Bears should thank veteran Jason Peters for a job well done and play rookie Teven Jenkins at left tackle if Jenkins is activated from injured reserve next week after undergoing back surgery in August.

Unless the Bears suddenly morph into a playoff-caliber team against the Cardinals, they’ll be on the fringe of the playoff picture at best and should give Jenkins a head start on 2022. Nagy didn’t sound too interested in that, when asked about it Monday.
This is another example of when and why higher-ups absolutely must intervene sometimes.

Nagy doesn't want to play Jenkins, because he's desperate to win meaningless games now.
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