Updates on Jenkins and Borom

[IE]

They drafted Jenkins to play LT. They have to see if he can play LT.

They drafted Borom to play RG and/or RT. They have to see if he can continue to improve where he's at before you just uproot the dude and move him to the left.

If none of that works, then you go to plan B and move people around.

Sorry - the draft is ancient history. A lot of people were fretting about Jenkins playing LT, and the assumptions Pace made around that. Many were hopeful - but not many were "confident" that was the long-term answer.

I maintain that with the most current information the picture has dramatically changed. Borom's actually played LT in the NFL and pretty much looked like an NFL LT. Jenkins hasn't. I think we strongly believe Jenkins could be a stud on the right. Borom's also played reasonably well on the right - but he hasn't grown roots anywhere. He's played as well on the left as he has on the right. Again - if Peters goes down, they uproot Borom anyway... right? The one thing we know is there IS a RT of the future on this team.

What we don't know is "is there the LT of the future on this team" - and that has to be the most important question. If Borom is playing over there and looking good then that answers the question and gives you super important information for the draft - no way are you going to draft an LT high with the Bears' limited draft capital if you have an acceptable starter in Borom and a potential additional starter at LT in Jenkins. Jenkins can compete for & earn the LT spot next year. Either can play on the right. The main question is how set is the left? You don't know that nearly as well by inserting Jenkins at LT, potentially watching him struggle a bit (naturally) and then concluding that you have to invest in yet another LT when you in fact may already have two.

[dplank]

Why does it matter? We need to see Jenkins play, that much is clear. And we need to see him play at T, RT or LT doesn't matter. Borom is currently at RT and Jenkins has said he's more comfortable at LT, there doesn't appear to be any logical reason to force them to flip. We don't really know Jenkins is going to be good anywhere, he hasn't played at all yet - so assuming he'd be great at RT is a stretch. We don't really know if we have a RT on this team, or a LT on this team. We have Borom, who has looked pretty decent at both spots but isn't a lock to be great. And we have Jenkins, who hasn't played at all and we have no idea if he'd be better at RT or LT - he seems to prefer LT. I just want him to get live game action for his own development and for our GM's understanding of where we stand heading into the offseason. It seems to me that the easiest thing to do here is let Borom continue to settle in at RT and play Jenkins at his own preferred LT spot - make it as easy on Jenkins as possible.

As long as he plays I'm happy. If we sit him, while healthy, out of an abundance of caution or because we foolishly believe we can win now and Peters is an important piece - then I'll be unhappy. We need to think forward here.

[IE]

Why does it matter? We need to see Jenkins play, that much is clear. And we need to see him play at T, RT or LT doesn't matter. Borom is currently at RT and Jenkins has said he's more comfortable at LT, there doesn't appear to be any logical reason to force them to flip. We don't really know Jenkins is going to be good anywhere, he hasn't played at all yet - so assuming he'd be great at RT is a stretch. We don't really know if we have a RT on this team, or a LT on this team. We have Borom, who has looked pretty decent at both spots but isn't a lock to be great. And we have Jenkins, who hasn't played at all and we have no idea if he'd be better at RT or LT - he seems to prefer LT. I just want him to get live game action for his own development and for our GM's understanding of where we stand heading into the offseason. It seems to me that the easiest thing to do here is let Borom continue to settle in at RT and play Jenkins at his own preferred LT spot - make it as easy on Jenkins as possible.

As long as he plays I'm happy. If we sit him, while healthy, out of an abundance of caution or because we foolishly believe we can win now and Peters is an important piece - then I'll be unhappy. We need to think forward here.

I agree it is important to get Jenkins playing. I think it should be fine to ease him in, and spelling the OTs and going in as an extra OL like Lazor likes to do would be a good way.

I think the draft is the main reason it matters WHERE they play. The question is what I like to call a "high class problem" (choosing between 2 good options). To me the scale tilts to Borom on the left because Borom could definitively take LT off the table for the draft. Jenkins seems less likely to, IMO. IF Jenkins struggles on the left and Borom doesn't get more looks there, the GM could conclude he doesn't have a LT. It is too important to get wrong.

I agree with you Peters isn't the priority. But if they start winning and can make a run with Peters I'm all on board with that. If they lose 3 of the next 4, then certainly retire Peters. UNTIL that time I think Jenkins should come in to spell both Peters and Borom (and Bars in his heavy package role) to get his sea legs.

[malk]

If Borom has settled in at RT I'm good with not rocking the boat.

I'll die on the hill that people make too much of L/R alignment. You don't want guys to constantly switch, but it's mainly a reps thing. And in today's NFL I want well rounded pass and run blockers on both spots. The old stereotypes of LT v RT need not apply IMO. If Borom is good on the right and Jenkins can stick on the left, I'm not worried about possibly not maximizing their roles in those spots.

The bigger issue really is just how quickly Jenkins should see reps and who's the odd man out if he does, plus how to move the other 3 in concert.

It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).

This is it. If Jenkins shows enough in practice that leads the coaches to believe he won't be an absolute liability you plug him into the spot where you hope he can play. I also don't want to see Mustipher come out. I know he doesn't look good enough right now but he's not not giving up bone crunching sacks left, right and, um, centre, so you keep him going and hope he improves.

Peters has done a commendable job and deserves lots of props, but he isn't in the Team's future so we can't be sentimental about it.

[Grizzled]

If Borom has settled in at RT I'm good with not rocking the boat.

I'll die on the hill that people make too much of L/R alignment. You don't want guys to constantly switch, but it's mainly a reps thing. And in today's NFL I want well rounded pass and run blockers on both spots. The old stereotypes of LT v RT need not apply IMO. If Borom is good on the right and Jenkins can stick on the left, I'm not worried about possibly not maximizing their roles in those spots.

The bigger issue really is just how quickly Jenkins should see reps and who's the odd man out if he does, plus how to move the other 3 in concert.

It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).

The way the NFC looks right now, the Bears still have a mathmatical shot at a wild card, that's how weak the wild card race is. Jenkins may be subbed in for series when Peters needs a rest but won't get entire games until the team is out of it.

[Moriarty]

It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).

The way the NFC looks right now, the Bears still have a mathmatical shot at a wild card, that's how weak the wild card race is. Jenkins may be subbed in for series when Peters needs a rest but won't get entire games until the team is out of it.

Another reason the extra playoff slot is pure shit.

Unless you're Lions level bad, you're always "in contention" (to squeeze into the playoffs and get pancaked by a team that's completely on a different level), so playing for the future - which happened far too little already, now becomes even rarer in the NFL.

[thunderspirit]

The way the NFC looks right now, the Bears still have a mathmatical shot at a wild card, that's how weak the wild card race is. Jenkins may be subbed in for series when Peters needs a rest but won't get entire games until the team is out of it.

Another reason the extra playoff slot is pure shit.

Unless you're Lions level bad, you're always "in contention" (to squeeze into the playoffs and get pancaked by a team that's completely on a different level), so playing for the future - which happened far too little already, now becomes even rarer in the NFL.

The NFL sees this as a feature, not a bug.

[Moriarty]

Another reason the extra playoff slot is pure shit.

Unless you're Lions level bad, you're always "in contention" (to squeeze into the playoffs and get pancaked by a team that's completely on a different level), so playing for the future - which happened far too little already, now becomes even rarer in the NFL.

The NFL sees this as a feature, not a bug.

I know they do.
That's where the extra layer of bile comes from.

, NFL

And while I'm at it, one for making players play on 3 days rest, when you really don't have to
One for coddling your pets, like the Patriots and Aaron Rodgers
One for not doing anything to improve the officiating, even though there are options that wouldn't even be that hard
And a spare because I'm sure I'm forgetting something

[HisRoyalSweetness]

It's an easy answer IMO. You don't move a bunch of people around, you just replace Peters with Jenkins. Peters is one and done here, there's no value playing him once the season is over (which it basically is).

This is it. If Jenkins shows enough in practice that leads the coaches to believe he won't be an absolute liability you plug him into the spot where you hope he can play. I also don't want to see Mustipher come out. I know he doesn't look good enough right now but he's not not giving up bone crunching sacks left, right and, um, centre, so you keep him going and hope he improves.

Peters has done a commendable job and deserves lots of props, but he isn't in the Team's future so we can't be sentimental about it.

I watched a good interview with Olin Kreutz on TTNL last night, with the focus very much on the offensive line. He defended Mustipher, who he's worked with, suggested that Daniels' problem with playing center was making the line calls which not everyone can do, talked about Peters and how he's helping the young guys on the field, and talks about the development of Borum and Jenkins amongst other things.

The interview starts around the 33 minute mark and the discussions about the tackles at around the hour mark. Well worth a watch.

[dplank]

This is it. If Jenkins shows enough in practice that leads the coaches to believe he won't be an absolute liability you plug him into the spot where you hope he can play. I also don't want to see Mustipher come out. I know he doesn't look good enough right now but he's not not giving up bone crunching sacks left, right and, um, centre, so you keep him going and hope he improves.

Peters has done a commendable job and deserves lots of props, but he isn't in the Team's future so we can't be sentimental about it.

I watched a good interview with Olin Kreutz on TTNL last night, with the focus very much on the offensive line. He defended Mustipher, who he's worked with, suggested that Daniels' problem with playing center was making the line calls which not everyone can do, talked about Peters and how he's helping the young guys on the field, and talks about the development of Borum and Jenkins amongst other things.

The interview starts around the 33 minute mark and the discussions about the tackles at around the hour mark. Well worth a watch.

Thanks!! Didn't know this was out and really like Kruetz's perspective generally

[Moriarty]

He defended Mustipher, who he's worked with, suggested that Daniels' problem with playing center was making the line calls which not everyone can do, talked about Peters and how he's helping the young guys on the field, and talks about the development of Borum and Jenkins amongst other things.

That's one thing about Olin's opinion.
While I respect his knowledge, I wonder if he's gotten so friendly and invested with Mustipher, that his outlook may not be very objective or useful anymore.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Draft Doctor Phil is very critical of Mustipher and has been all season, although he recognised that the Steelers game was Mustipher's best of the season. In their exchanges Kreutz challenged him to name centers he would rather have which left Phil floundering. Kreutz obviously takes an extra interest in the center position and said he could highlight instances of other centers struggling at the point of attack, including the Steelers' center against Goldman. The thing is PFF have Mustipher ranked 36th out of 39 qualifying centers in their rankings. As much as I don't put much stock in PFF these days, it would have been interesting for that to have put to Kreutz. As he said, there are not 32 quality centers in the league. When you're not even ranked in the top 32 then that really does suggest you're not up to the job!

Anyway, I didn't want to get too much into the parts in the interview about Mustipher because this thread is about Jenkins and Borom.

[RichH55]

Creed Humphrey - done Olin

[RichH55]

And I have been very bullish on what Ive seen from Borom

Not on my radar at all going into Draft - but looks solid (*)

(*) One caveat being I dont know if its a Jordan Mills situation where looking close to competent as Rookie when alternative was terrible causes folks (me included) to overrate him

[HisRoyalSweetness]

From the Sun Times:

The Bears opened the three-week window Monday for rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins to return from injured reserve, but have yet to activate him. They have to add him to the roster no later than next week against the Cardinals or he’ll be ineligible the rest of the season.

[The Cooler King]

From the Sun Times:

The Bears opened the three-week window Monday for rookie offensive tackle Teven Jenkins to return from injured reserve, but have yet to activate him. They have to add him to the roster no later than next week against the Cardinals or he’ll be ineligible the rest of the season.

Seems like he's making progress. Also they can activate him on the 53 even if he might be a week away from being gameday active. Not a all or nothing thing. I'm sure he will go in the 53 by the deadline.

[RichH55]

Have to put him on the 53 - but really really really should be wary on playing him

Remember Jimbo Covert

[HisRoyalSweetness]

Small nugget from the Sun Times:

The Bears should thank veteran Jason Peters for a job well done and play rookie Teven Jenkins at left tackle if Jenkins is activated from injured reserve next week after undergoing back surgery in August.

Unless the Bears suddenly morph into a playoff-caliber team against the Cardinals, they’ll be on the fringe of the playoff picture at best and should give Jenkins a head start on 2022. Nagy didn’t sound too interested in that, when asked about it Monday.

Oh, and this for what it's worth:

Former Bears left tackle Charles Leno has one penalty in 11 games this season with Washington after having 40 in his previous four seasons with the Bears. … Leno is ranked 14th among NFL offensive tackles this season by Pro Football Focus. Peters is ranked 21st.

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2021 ... ting-bears

[crueltyabc]

I don’t think we’ll ever come to consensus on who should have stayed/gone last off-season but we can def agree that mistakes were made and the Jason Peters Hail Mary was critical to the Bears even fielding a mediocre team at this point

[Moriarty]

Small nugget from the Sun Times:

The Bears should thank veteran Jason Peters for a job well done and play rookie Teven Jenkins at left tackle if Jenkins is activated from injured reserve next week after undergoing back surgery in August.

Unless the Bears suddenly morph into a playoff-caliber team against the Cardinals, they’ll be on the fringe of the playoff picture at best and should give Jenkins a head start on 2022. Nagy didn’t sound too interested in that, when asked about it Monday.

This is another example of when and why higher-ups absolutely must intervene sometimes.

Nagy doesn't want to play Jenkins, because he's desperate to win meaningless games now.

[IE]

I think there is general agreement with hindsight that it was a huge mistake to send Leno packing and keep Graham. The cost is close to a wash. It was initially defend-able with expectation that Jenkins could at least hold his own at LT and be a big upgrade in the run game even if he struggled a bit as a rookie in pass pro. But once Jenkins showed to be injured and out of service, it made Pace's decision conspicuous. IMO Pace was clearly surprised.

On Jenkins playing right away... this has been thoroughly discussed and I think general agreement that Jenkins should play right away even though there is some disagreement about how much. In reality he'll likely be eased in on a part-time basis at first. So it doesn't really make sense to argue about whether he should start or not - very soon we'll see him playing and his performance will paint the picture. IF he shows that he can start, he'll certainly get the chance this season. Personally I'd like to see both he and Borom at both RT and LT before the end of the season. If "giving a player who may struggle a head start on next year" is the goal... then let's not pretend that continuity at the bookends is a big deal.

[RichH55]

I was someone who was anti- Dumping Leno and thought the Jenkins injury just made it look worse

That said - I think Peters has given us everything Leno would have and maybe more

Not sure I agreed with the Pace process - but I think he lucked into the results one would hope for as to this season

Creed Humphrey basically looking like he's going to be a 10 Time Pro Bowler - that kind of hurts though

[Grizzled]

As is predictable, Nagy is in win-now mode to save his ass. He's not pulling Peters to see if Jenkins can play LT (if Jenkins is physically able to be in games). So a major unknown will continue into the offseason. Will the Bears try to find a LT in FA, stick Jenkins at RT, and use Borom as a swing tackle? It wouldn't make sense for them to use another draft pick on the position with Jenkins and Borom just a year out of college.

[dplank]

As is predictable, Nagy is in win-now mode to save his ass. He's not pulling Peters to see if Jenkins can play LT (if Jenkins is physically able to be in games). So a major unknown will continue into the offseason. Will the Bears try to find a LT in FA, stick Jenkins at RT, and use Borom as a swing tackle? It wouldn't make sense for them to use another draft pick on the position with Jenkins and Borom just a year out of college.

It's really frustrating Grizz. But, the more I think about it, the more I'm coming to realize that we are going to roll with Jenkins/Borom next season regardless of if Jenkins gets any playing time this year or not. We just really don't have any other choice. We will have a lot of roster additions to make with the budget we have available, with needs all over the place. We have what, 1 WR under contract next season? OT's are not cheap, I don't see any way we spend there when we have those two guys given all the other holes we have to fill. I think the way the off season is setup pretty much forces us to count on Jenkins/Borom, so I'm slowly coming around to it not being the end of the world if Jenkins sits. I certainly don't want to risk his health.

[spudbear]

I think there is general agreement with hindsight that it was a huge mistake to send Leno packing and keep Graham. The cost is close to a wash. It was initially defend-able with expectation that Jenkins could at least hold his own at LT and be a big upgrade in the run game even if he struggled a bit as a rookie in pass pro. But once Jenkins showed to be injured and out of service, it made Pace's decision conspicuous. IMO Pace was clearly surprised.

On Jenkins playing right away... this has been thoroughly discussed and I think general agreement that Jenkins should play right away even though there is some disagreement about how much. In reality he'll likely be eased in on a part-time basis at first. So it doesn't really make sense to argue about whether he should start or not - very soon we'll see him playing and his performance will paint the picture. IF he shows that he can start, he'll certainly get the chance this season. Personally I'd like to see both he and Borom at both RT and LT before the end of the season. If "giving a player who may struggle a head start on next year" is the goal... then let's not pretend that continuity at the bookends is a big deal.

If I had to guess Pace probably saw too much flopping by Leno and knew he was getting an OT early. Keeping a vet starting at a particular position for the last 5 years will not give his prized rookie a chance to start or play, so keeping Leno would be take away snaps from Jenkins.

I'm hoping that this will be a positive where Jenkins learns from Peters on what it takes to be a pro and learn some techniques from him. Whether he starts or not for the remainder of the games is unknown. We also don't know if he's the kind of player you have to drag off the field or if he plays it safe with injuries. The coaches can determine if Jenkins is able and ready to compete on Sundays. Hope he's willing though I can understand being hesitant about a back injury.

[LacertineForest]

[IE]

I think there is general agreement with hindsight that it was a huge mistake to send Leno packing and keep Graham. The cost is close to a wash. It was initially defend-able with expectation that Jenkins could at least hold his own at LT and be a big upgrade in the run game even if he struggled a bit as a rookie in pass pro. But once Jenkins showed to be injured and out of service, it made Pace's decision conspicuous. IMO Pace was clearly surprised.

On Jenkins playing right away... this has been thoroughly discussed and I think general agreement that Jenkins should play right away even though there is some disagreement about how much. In reality he'll likely be eased in on a part-time basis at first. So it doesn't really make sense to argue about whether he should start or not - very soon we'll see him playing and his performance will paint the picture. IF he shows that he can start, he'll certainly get the chance this season. Personally I'd like to see both he and Borom at both RT and LT before the end of the season. If "giving a player who may struggle a head start on next year" is the goal... then let's not pretend that continuity at the bookends is a big deal.

If I had to guess Pace probably saw too much flopping by Leno and knew he was getting an OT early. Keeping a vet starting at a particular position for the last 5 years will not give his prized rookie a chance to start or play, so keeping Leno would be take away snaps from Jenkins.

I'm hoping that this will be a positive where Jenkins learns from Peters on what it takes to be a pro and learn some techniques from him. Whether he starts or not for the remainder of the games is unknown. We also don't know if he's the kind of player you have to drag off the field or if he plays it safe with injuries. The coaches can determine if Jenkins is able and ready to compete on Sundays. Hope he's willing though I can understand being hesitant about a back injury.

Yeah - I think it is clear that Pace was blind sided by the extremity of Jenkins' back issue. His plan was to play him this year - and like Plank said it is the plan to play him next year (and now Borom on the right as well). That's the plan, and they're not wasting high draft picks on the Oline unless it is a Center. Moriarty and wab sort of sold me on upgrading Mustipher - but I'm not sure they're going to do that, and especially with a new coaching regime coming in they might decide that between Daniels and Mustipher they're set at C as well for '22.

I do think Jenkins will get playing time but as folks are saying with Nagy probably still under the delusion that he can save his job Peters is going to get starts and they're going to ease Jenkins in.

[Grizzled]

As is predictable, Nagy is in win-now mode to save his ass. He's not pulling Peters to see if Jenkins can play LT (if Jenkins is physically able to be in games). So a major unknown will continue into the offseason. Will the Bears try to find a LT in FA, stick Jenkins at RT, and use Borom as a swing tackle? It wouldn't make sense for them to use another draft pick on the position with Jenkins and Borom just a year out of college.

It's really frustrating Grizz. But, the more I think about it, the more I'm coming to realize that we are going to roll with Jenkins/Borom next season regardless of if Jenkins gets any playing time this year or not. We just really don't have any other choice. We will have a lot of roster additions to make with the budget we have available, with needs all over the place. We have what, 1 WR under contract next season? OT's are not cheap, I don't see any way we spend there when we have those two guys given all the other holes we have to fill. I think the way the off season is setup pretty much forces us to count on Jenkins/Borom, so I'm slowly coming around to it not being the end of the world if Jenkins sits. I certainly don't want to risk his health.

I see them rolling with Jenkins at LT and Borom at RT next year. No high priced FA OT, it's one of the most expensive positions to fill that way. Like you, I'd rather safeguard Jenkins' health the rest of this year, the team needs to look ahead to the next decade.

[HisRoyalSweetness]

More details courtesy of the Sun TImes:

Bears will activate rookie OT Teven Jenkins off IR

...

Activating Jenkins moves the Bears one step closer to establishing the future bookend tackles the Bears envisioned when the drafted Jenkins in the second round and Missouri’s Larry Borom in the fifth round. Borom has started the last four games at right tackle to positive reviews after spending six weeks on IR with an ankle injury he suffered in the season opener against the Rams.

But getting Jenkins the same experience as Borom is a little more problematic. Veteran Jason Peters, who was signed in August when it became apparent that Jenkins’ back injury would require surgery, is the starter at left tackle and, at 39, has been the Bears’ best offensive lineman this season.

With the 4-7 Bears still holding playoff hopes — they are one game behind No. 7 seed Washington but have six other teams ahead of them — they aren’t about to bench a future Hall of Fame who has been playing well just to get Jenkins experience as a foundation for next season.

So for now, Jenkins provides depth at tackle — left or right, Nagy said. Where and when Jenkins plays will be determined by Nagy, offensive coordinator Bill Lazor and offensive line coach Juan Castillo as the season ensues. Nagy indicated that a rotation with Borom on the right side would be unworkable at this point of the season.

“We’ll go over it and try to get a feel for where he’s at — which side and everything like that,” Nagy said. “But I think for us just now being able to activate him is the good part.”

It will be a more debatable dilemma if the Bears fall out of playoff contention. With nothing to play for but next season, getting Jenkins game-speed snaps would seem to be a priority, even if it means playing him ahead of Peters. Nagy wasn’t thinking that far ahead, of course. But he acknowledged he’s curious to see what Jenkins can do.

“When you draft a guy, you’re always anticipating how he’s going to play, so the answer would be yes,” Nagy said. “But at the same time he provides a lot of depth to us and we have a position there at left tackle where Jason Peters is playing pretty well.”

“Right now we like our depth and I think for Teven to come in and get going we jut kind of play it out. But it’s a good problem to have.”

...

Full article: https://chicago.suntimes.com/bears/2021 ... ins-off-ir

[mmmc_35]

With no training camp, no preseason, no regular season, and being a rookie, why would anyone expect Jenkins to come off IR and start right away?