Preseason Week 2: Bears "win" 24-23 over Denver

[Knuckles]

I'm fine with trading picks. Let's be real, White is an injury bust, Floyd has been ok as a passrusher but that is it, Trubisky has a ton of potential but needs a lot of coaching up, and Smith is a rookie ILB. Can't make any judgement on Tru or Smith yet but I'm hopeful.

Since Urlacher (and before Pace) we have Olsen, Harris, Fuller and Long as the only guys who haven't been abortions on the field. That is a crap history of busts. I'd trade the picks for Mack and pay him.

Exactly! A proven guy is worth it... We can't get all caught up in the Cutler deal. QB is hard to find and cost a ton if there's someone that even sort of resembles a starter but a guy like Mack is easier to judge because there's just too many variables in a QB like OC for instance and talent around them like WRs ect. A pass rusher either you have it or you don't (for the most part). It's easier to predict what he can do unless the player himself has character issues and I don't see that with Mack (at least what I've read).

I don't blame the Bears for spending what they did on Cutler... Hell I blame them more for not building the team and coaching staff around him more than what he did as QB. I still don't like Jay I think he didn't want to be coached anyway (tell Martz to go F himself for instance). But you don't have to look much further than what Peppers did in GB at the age he did it to see that what even a decent pass rusher can do to a dline if he's above average and solid. Mack is in his prime and a FN beast! Who's the last guy on this team that got more than 10 sacks a year? I seriously can't remember maybe Tommie Harris?

[Sugashane]

I'm fine with trading picks. Let's be real, White is an injury bust, Floyd has been ok as a passrusher but that is it, Trubisky has a ton of potential but needs a lot of coaching up, and Smith is a rookie ILB. Can't make any judgement on Tru or Smith yet but I'm hopeful.

Since Urlacher (and before Pace) we have Olsen, Harris, Fuller and Long as the only guys who haven't been abortions on the field. That is a crap history of busts. I'd trade the picks for Mack and pay him.

Exactly! A proven guy is worth it... We can't get all caught up in the Cutler deal. QB is hard to find and cost a ton if there's someone that even sort of resembles a starter but a guy like Mack is easier to judge because there's just too many variables in a QB like OC for instance and talent around them like WRs ect. A pass rusher either you have it or you don't (for the most part). It's easier to predict what he can do unless the player himself has character issues and I don't see that with Mack (at least what I've read).

I don't blame the Bears for spending what they did on Cutler... Hell I blame them more for not building the team and coaching staff around him more than what he did as QB. I still don't like Jay I think he didn't want to be coached anyway (tell Martz to go F himself for instance). But you don't have to look much further than what Peppers did in GB at the age he did it to see that what even a decent pass rusher can do to a dline if he's above average and solid. Mack is in his prime and a FN beast! Who's the last guy on this team that got more than 10 sacks a year? I seriously can't remember maybe Tommie Harris?

Amen. Going and getting Jay wasn't a bad move, trading away Olsen was. I hate how everyone says "But that 3rd was used to get Marshall!" Who gives a shit? We had another 3rd that was used on Brandon Hardin. Putting Hester as a number one was a disastrous move, having chumps like Roy Williams, Earl Bennett, Kellen Davis, etc to be his offensive cast with an OL that Garza was easily the best lineman on was a garbage move. Rotating has-beens at OC repeatedly was the icing on the cake. Literally every terrible move the Bears COULD have done to ruin Jay... they did. Pace looks like he is doing everything he can to avoid that with his hiring of Nagy and QB-minded coaches and stacking of support cast. Power runner with receiving HB, WR to stretch the field and possession guy with a history of being a #1, TEs to act as safety nets, etc.

Last guy before Pep to get over 10 sacks was Mark freaking Anderson. The Bears' one year wonder got 12 his rookie deal, mostly clean up sacks IIRC. Had one really productive year in NE too.

Getting Mack is the star power we need. We have hopes for Smith, but really we only have Hicks on defense. Fuller has a chance to boom, Amos was damn good, Jackson showed a ton of potential last year, DT is solid-not-great, Goldman is the same, Floyd too, etc. He could make the rest of the defense better, and we have Tru on a rookie deal. THIS is the time to make a play.

[The Marshall Plan]

I'm fine with trading picks. Let's be real, White is an injury bust, Floyd has been ok as a passrusher but that is it, Trubisky has a ton of potential but needs a lot of coaching up, and Smith is a rookie ILB. Can't make any judgement on Tru or Smith yet but I'm hopeful.

Since Urlacher (and before Pace) we have Olsen, Harris, Fuller and Long as the only guys who haven't been abortions on the field. That is a crap history of busts. I'd trade the picks for Mack and pay him.

Exactly! A proven guy is worth it... We can't get all caught up in the Cutler deal. QB is hard to find and cost a ton if there's someone that even sort of resembles a starter but a guy like Mack is easier to judge because there's just too many variables in a QB like OC for instance and talent around them like WRs ect. A pass rusher either you have it or you don't (for the most part). It's easier to predict what he can do unless the player himself has character issues and I don't see that with Mack (at least what I've read).

I don't blame the Bears for spending what they did on Cutler... Hell I blame them more for not building the team and coaching staff around him more than what he did as QB. I still don't like Jay I think he didn't want to be coached anyway (tell Martz to go F himself for instance). But you don't have to look much further than what Peppers did in GB at the age he did it to see that what even a decent pass rusher can do to a dline if he's above average and solid. Mack is in his prime and a FN beast! Who's the last guy on this team that got more than 10 sacks a year? I seriously can't remember maybe Tommie Harris?

Amen. Going and getting Jay wasn't a bad move, trading away Olsen was. I hate how everyone says "But that 3rd was used to get Marshall!" Who gives a shit? We had another 3rd that was used on Brandon Hardin. Putting Hester as a number one was a disastrous move, having chumps like Roy Williams, Earl Bennett, Kellen Davis, etc to be his offensive cast with an OL that Garza was easily the best lineman on was a garbage move. Rotating has-beens at OC repeatedly was the icing on the cake. Literally every terrible move the Bears COULD have done to ruin Jay... they did. Pace looks like he is doing everything he can to avoid that with his hiring of Nagy and QB-minded coaches and stacking of support cast. Power runner with receiving HB, WR to stretch the field and possession guy with a history of being a #1, TEs to act as safety nets, etc.

Last guy before Pep to get over 10 sacks was Mark freaking Anderson. The Bears' one year wonder got 12 his rookie deal, mostly clean up sacks IIRC. Had one really productive year in NE too.

Getting Mack is the star power we need. We have hopes for Smith, but really we only have Hicks on defense. Fuller has a chance to boom, Amos was damn good, Jackson showed a ton of potential last year, DT is solid-not-great, Goldman is the same, Floyd too, etc. He could make the rest of the defense better, and we have Tru on a rookie deal. THIS is the time to make a play.

That's one of the best explanations of the Cutler situation that I've ever read. Cutler took so much shit, but hardly anybody stops to think about the supporting cast, or lackthereof, around him.

[Moriarty]

I'm fine with trading picks. Let's be real, White is an injury bust, Floyd has been ok as a passrusher but that is it, Trubisky has a ton of potential but needs a lot of coaching up, and Smith is a rookie ILB. Can't make any judgement on Tru or Smith yet but I'm hopeful.

Since Urlacher (and before Pace) we have Olsen, Harris, Fuller and Long as the only guys who haven't been abortions on the field. That is a crap history of busts. I'd trade the picks for Mack and pay him.

Exactly! A proven guy is worth it...

They aren't. Not even close.

If you don't believe me, go back and make a list of every veteran player traded for a R1 pick or more since the catastrophic Herschel Walker trade of 1989. Figure out whether the team that gave picks wound up happy with the deal or regretting it.

[Mikefive]

It doesn't take much to convince me to trade for an elite player. I wanted the Bears to trade for Marcus Peters.

With Mack, and anybody else, it all depends on the cost and from what I've read online (take it for what its worth) we're looking at multiple picks similar to the Jared Allen trade. One first and two third round picks.

No way. Especially not with the new rules in the league. I'm not saying to avoid having a push rush period, but I'm not sure I want an elite guy that the refs might key in on. I could be totally wrong, but in the same way the big hit rules negated having a home run hitting safety I'm thinking a top tier pass rusher isn't something you want to tie up cap dollars on anymore. Yes, draft a guy, but I'm not sure about the position given the new rules.

I heard that Oakland wanted 2 #1s. I wouldn't do that. And I'm not one to trade #1s because you don't trade #1s and pay big $$$ as that screws your cap. But in this case, I'd have to think about it if it's just a #1, although I wish I was more confident about this year. I'd be far more inclined to trade a pick in the 20's as opposed to one in the lower teens. I did predict a 7-9 year this year and still feel pretty good about that.

[Sugashane]

I'm fine with trading picks. Let's be real, White is an injury bust, Floyd has been ok as a passrusher but that is it, Trubisky has a ton of potential but needs a lot of coaching up, and Smith is a rookie ILB. Can't make any judgement on Tru or Smith yet but I'm hopeful.

Since Urlacher (and before Pace) we have Olsen, Harris, Fuller and Long as the only guys who haven't been abortions on the field. That is a crap history of busts. I'd trade the picks for Mack and pay him.

Exactly! A proven guy is worth it...

They aren't. Not even close.

If you don't believe me, go back and make a list of every veteran player traded for a R1 pick or more since the catastrophic Herschel Walker trade of 1989. Figure out whether the team that gave picks wound up happy with the deal or regretting it.

Not going back that far, but since 2000 it hasn't been terrible, especially since the majority of 1st rounders don't pan out. Jared Allen was fantastic for MIN (the most like this scenario), Keyshawn Johnson won a Super Bowl with the Bucs, John Abraham was damn good for the Falcons for a long time, Jason Peters was the best LT in the NFL for years for the Eagles, etc.

This isn't Bledsoe, Trent Green or Carson Palmer on the downtrend, someone with Randy Moss' attitude issues, etc. This is a top 5 player on the defensive side of the ball IMO. This isn't an act of desperation like Bradford to the Vikings.

It is easy to find failure in the NFL. Look at the majority of our 1sts since 2000. Look at how many FA busts we have had. It is the same throughout the league. Trading picks is a risk but this is safer than landing a stud in the middle of the draft IMO.

[ramentaschen]

Since we are talking about defensive linemen:

The Lions just cut DL Cornelius Washington to save money towards their cap. He's not an expensive player and has a history with us. Would the Bears be interested in getting him back for depth if he comes cheap?

Cornelius Washington | Defensive Lineman | #90
Team: Unsigned Free Agent
Age / DOB: (28) / 9/10/1989
Ht / Wt: 6'4' / 280
College: Georgia
Drafted: 2013 / Rd. 6 (188) / CHI

Unsigned Free Agent

Lions released DE Cornelius Washington.
The move saves Detroit $2.7 million in cap space. Washington set career-highs with 24 tackles and 2.5 sacks over 487 defensive snaps last season

Career Stats
Year Tackles Sacks Interceptions Fumb Misc KO Ret Punt Ret
Year Team G Solo Ast Total Sack Yds Yd/Sk Int Yds IntTD Rec TD Frcd Pass D Sfty Yds TD Yds TD
2013 CHI 2 1 0 1 0.0 0 .0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2014 CHI 13 6 3 9 1.0 1 1.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2015 CHI 1 0 0 0 0.0 0 .0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2016 CHI 15 14 6 20 2.0 12 6.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
2017 DET 15 15 9 24 2.5 12 4.8 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0

[wab]

I used to love me some CornWash but the Bears don't really need him anymore and he's never healthy.

[Boris13c]

I'm fine with trading picks. Let's be real, White is an injury bust, Floyd has been ok as a passrusher but that is it, Trubisky has a ton of potential but needs a lot of coaching up, and Smith is a rookie ILB. Can't make any judgement on Tru or Smith yet but I'm hopeful.

Since Urlacher (and before Pace) we have Olsen, Harris, Fuller and Long as the only guys who haven't been abortions on the field. That is a crap history of busts. I'd trade the picks for Mack and pay him.

Exactly! A proven guy is worth it... We can't get all caught up in the Cutler deal. QB is hard to find and cost a ton if there's someone that even sort of resembles a starter but a guy like Mack is easier to judge because there's just too many variables in a QB like OC for instance and talent around them like WRs ect. A pass rusher either you have it or you don't (for the most part). It's easier to predict what he can do unless the player himself has character issues and I don't see that with Mack (at least what I've read).

I don't blame the Bears for spending what they did on Cutler... Hell I blame them more for not building the team and coaching staff around him more than what he did as QB. I still don't like Jay I think he didn't want to be coached anyway (tell Martz to go F himself for instance). But you don't have to look much further than what Peppers did in GB at the age he did it to see that what even a decent pass rusher can do to a dline if he's above average and solid. Mack is in his prime and a FN beast! Who's the last guy on this team that got more than 10 sacks a year? I seriously can't remember maybe Tommie Harris?

Amen. Going and getting Jay wasn't a bad move, trading away Olsen was. I hate how everyone says "But that 3rd was used to get Marshall!" Who gives a shit? We had another 3rd that was used on Brandon Hardin. Putting Hester as a number one was a disastrous move, having chumps like Roy Williams, Earl Bennett, Kellen Davis, etc to be his offensive cast with an OL that Garza was easily the best lineman on was a garbage move. Rotating has-beens at OC repeatedly was the icing on the cake. Literally every terrible move the Bears COULD have done to ruin Jay... they did. Pace looks like he is doing everything he can to avoid that with his hiring of Nagy and QB-minded coaches and stacking of support cast. Power runner with receiving HB, WR to stretch the field and possession guy with a history of being a #1, TEs to act as safety nets, etc.

Last guy before Pep to get over 10 sacks was Mark freaking Anderson. The Bears' one year wonder got 12 his rookie deal, mostly clean up sacks IIRC. Had one really productive year in NE too.

Getting Mack is the star power we need. We have hopes for Smith, but really we only have Hicks on defense. Fuller has a chance to boom, Amos was damn good, Jackson showed a ton of potential last year, DT is solid-not-great, Goldman is the same, Floyd too, etc. He could make the rest of the defense better, and we have Tru on a rookie deal. THIS is the time to make a play.

That's one of the best explanations of the Cutler situation that I've ever read. Cutler took so much shit, but hardly anybody stops to think about the supporting cast, or lackthereof, around him.

and the return of Cutler to the discussions yet again

[The Marshall Plan]

I can't let the Cutler years go. I just can't.

And yes, I watch Very Cavallari for the Cutler parts.

[ramentaschen]

I didn't know where to put this but I thought it was interesting enough to note and comment on today:

Jets released K Cairo Santos

I remember not too long ago when we signed him still injured (probably), had him play one game for us I think, then IR'd him for the next year so he could be our future kicker.

Another guy we took a risk on and didn't pan out either for us or anyone else.

Injuries, man. Injuries.