The Dreaded QB Thread...

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

OK. It's been three games, and officially one full year into Mitch Trubisky's NFL experience. I get that he's in his second offense in two years, and that he only had 13 NCAA Div I starts. But what should we REALLY be expecting out of him by now? I hear all sorts of excuses;

-It's a new offense
-He has new teammates
-He is pushing himself too hard
-We're expecting too much too fast
-The Moon is in Virgo

The real question is. What have you seen from him that would indicate that the arrow is going to continue going up? That he is actually making progress. That Nagy isn't in a meeting with Pace after every game saying "YEESH!"

Two things that I saw on Sunday that gave me hope;

-He was less jittery in the pocket, and did not automatically pull the ball down and run at the first sign of pressure.
-Mitch seemed to work through his progressions better.

I still don't think he is reading defenses very well, and is getting fooled easily by dummy looks pre-snap. Hopefully that is an experience issue, not an intellectual capacity issue. He needs to have the confidence to throw to a spot and that the WR will be there. I.E. If he throws that ball at the goal post Sunday, A-Rob had a TD all day long. Honestly I think that will be a watershed moment for him. He'll say "fuck it" and do it, and then be like, "Hmmmm...that actually works." At least that's what I imagine happening...like next week.

So in summary. What I think we need to see out of Mitch at this point is;
1. Better pre-snap diagnosis of what the defense is showing vs. actually giving him.
2. The confidence to throw to a window, not a person.

Hopefully that all comes around by the end of the first quarter on Sunday. No pressure Mitch.

[Mikefive]

Here's what I wrote on reddit the other day, which got no upvotes. lol

People need to take a step back and look at reality. Trubisky had 13 college starts after having studied the same offense for 3 years. He knew the offense very well, so despite having only a little experience--he did participate in 17 other college games, a bit here and a bit there. He is severely lacking in PT that most other QBs who enter the draft get. Can anyone name other college QBs who only started one year and by the beginning of year 2 in the NFL looked ready for prime time? There may be one or two outliers, but almost entirely, the answer here is NO.

Compare to Pat Mahomes. Four year starter (45 games?), who then sat during his rookie year to learn a sophisticated pro system. Not only that, Mahomes had a competent NFL veteran ahead of him that he would watch on the practice field and in the film room. Mahomes had a PERFECT situation setup for him. And it's paying dividends today.

Biscuit OTOH, had 13 college starts, studied under Mike Glennon and ended up being thrown into the fire under a coaching staff led by John Fox--a defensive guy who was never great with QBs--and Jay Cutler's hand picked OC Dowell Loggains. Trubisky was never given a chance to KNOW the offense before playing, had nobody to throw to and had ropes around his neck last year. This offseason, he's thrown into a complex offense that takes 3 years to learn and doesn't have it down yet. Imagine that.

People who say "he needs to play better now, because our D is ready to win now" or "2nd pick in the draft QBs should be able to play now" are just being ignorant of the reality. Mitchell Trubisky was a project from the day we drafted him and anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Who said on draft day 2017 that he was going to play well right away? That would be nobody.

And nothing I've said suggests negatives about him as a prospect. He's a terrific person, worker and leader. He's a wonderful physical specimen with a very good arm and plus athletic ability. And he's displayed some accuracy at times along with some moxie.

But look at his mistakes. Sometimes, he's accurate. Other times not. The blitz has gotten to him at times because he can't identify it pre-snap. He doesn't see open guys. His decision making is questionable. In the 'Zona game, he threw it to guys covered by Patrick Petersen way too much (among other things). These errors are all indications that he can't process the information that's coming at him fast enough. And that shouldn't be surprising at this point in his development with the way things have played out for him. He simply needs to play more, so that he's not thinking too much and the game slows down for him. Actually, it would help if he could sit for the rest of the year, just to absorb the offense. But that's not going to be an option.

He's not going to get much better this year. I expect him to be somewhat better next year and be a real NFL QB in 2020. That's just how it is. So get used to yelling at your TVs (like I do). It's going to be a while. But eventually, the Trubisky experiment will bear fruit. That's my guess.

[Boris13c]

~ sigh

I had fully expected more from Mitch at this point

I can understand perhaps a slow learning curve and perhaps some difficulties in mastering the new Nagy offense ... but to be routinely missing wide open receivers while not under duress points to a more personal problem with Mitch other than playbook comprehension

maybe Nagy needs to dumb things down, which would seem to be a definite surrender to regression, but something needs to be done

in the Cardinals game, I had trouble figuring out what the offense was actually trying to do, and was constantly scratching my head with the formations and ineffective play results ... apparently Mitch also experienced this same issue

I'll point to 1 play at the Cardinals 3 yardline on 3rd down where the Bears had 4 receivers on the right, with 3 Cardinals defenders, and at the snap, Mitch didn't even look that way ... instead he threw incomplete to a covered receiver to his left ... someone has to explain that mess to me because I dn't get it

bottom line is, with the addition of Mack, the Bears defense is formidable and will keep them in all games ... for them to have team success, the offense needs to up their game to at least be competent rather than struggling

Mitch is their guy, so they need to either smarten him up to fill that role or change the offense to make him more comfortable ... or both

[Moriarty]

I've been surprised the conversation on the radio has been reasonably sane.


Yes, it's too soon to know about him
Yes, there are examples of QBs who started slow and made it.
Yes, he should still start
No, you shouldn't neuter him

BUT
He's in year 2, with the offensive genius who was supposed to make everything better, and he hasn't shown any improvement over last year, and hasn't shown any game to game improvement this year.

27th in passer rating, 29th in 20+ yd completions, and tied for 28th with 0 40+ yd completions

It's not an encouraging beginning, especially when guys like Mahomes and Watson and Mayfield have all shown more reason to get excited.

[Moriarty]

Here's what I wrote on reddit the other day, which got no upvotes. lol

People need to take a step back and look at reality. Trubisky had 13 college starts after having studied the same offense for 3 years. He knew the offense very well, so despite having only a little experience--he did participate in 17 other college games, a bit here and a bit there. He is severely lacking in PT that most other QBs who enter the draft get. Can anyone name other college QBs who only started one year and by the beginning of year 2 in the NFL looked ready for prime time? There may be one or two outliers, but almost entirely, the answer here is NO.

Compare to Pat Mahomes. Four year starter (45 games?), who then sat during his rookie year to learn a sophisticated pro system. Not only that, Mahomes had a competent NFL veteran ahead of him that he would watch on the practice field and in the film room. Mahomes had a PERFECT situation setup for him. And it's paying dividends today.

Biscuit OTOH, had 13 college starts, studied under Mike Glennon and ended up being thrown into the fire under a coaching staff led by John Fox--a defensive guy who was never great with QBs--and Jay Cutler's hand picked OC Dowell Loggains. Trubisky was never given a chance to KNOW the offense before playing, had nobody to throw to and had ropes around his neck last year. This offseason, he's thrown into a complex offense that takes 3 years to learn and doesn't have it down yet. Imagine that.

People who say "he needs to play better now, because our D is ready to win now" or "2nd pick in the draft QBs should be able to play now" are just being ignorant of the reality. Mitchell Trubisky was a project from the day we drafted him and anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Who said on draft day 2017 that he was going to play well right away? That would be nobody.

And nothing I've said suggests negatives about him as a prospect. He's a terrific person, worker and leader. He's a wonderful physical specimen with a very good arm and plus athletic ability. And he's displayed some accuracy at times along with some moxie.

But look at his mistakes. Sometimes, he's accurate. Other times not. The blitz has gotten to him at times because he can't identify it pre-snap. He doesn't see open guys. His decision making is questionable. In the 'Zona game, he threw it to guys covered by Patrick Petersen way too much (among other things). These errors are all indications that he can't process the information that's coming at him fast enough. And that shouldn't be surprising at this point in his development with the way things have played out for him. He simply needs to play more, so that he's not thinking too much and the game slows down for him. Actually, it would help if he could sit for the rest of the year, just to absorb the offense. But that's not going to be an option.

He's not going to get much better this year. I expect him to be somewhat better next year and be a real NFL QB in 2020. That's just how it is. So get used to yelling at your TVs (like I do). It's going to be a while. But eventually, the Trubisky experiment will bear fruit. That's my guess.

Yeah, he definitely came to the NFL much shorter on experience than most guys.

But is the takeaway from that
[*] He just needs more time than other guys
or
[*] That just makes him a lot less likely to be successful
?

[Z Bear]

Problem #1 with Trubisky is Pace gave up too much capital to get him when you consider we had the 3rd pick plus you had Mahomes and Watson too. People are always going to compare Tru to them since we could have had any of them if we staid put at 3.

Problem #2 is Tru has looked the worst of the 3 so far in the limited number of games they have played. Yes things could turn around for Tru, but Mahommes has been playing lights out since he became a starter and Watson has shown more flashes (but has also shown a propensity to turn the ball over, which was his main knock coming out of Clemson).

I think the best comparison in the NFL to Trubisky is Alex Smith, their skill sets and athleticism are very similar. Early on Smith turned to his legs too much and struggle with the deep ball (gee.... who does that sound like?). This is a scary comparison as it took years for Smith to turn into a competent QB and the Bears window with the defense is not that long.

The main problem I see with Biscuit is the Blaine Gabbert syndrome....no feel for the rush in the pocket and is scared to get hit. This causes him to pull his eyes down and miss targets...which is better than Gabbert who regularly winced at the oncoming rush. In the NFL you are going to get pressure on just about every play, this needs to get cleaned up ASAP or else he will not improve.

[UOK]

Problem #1 with Trubisky is Pace gave up too much capital to get him

This is where I stopped reading. I can't read this shit anymore. This is not problem #1; it's problem #5,344. Problem #1 is why Mitch is second guessing himself so often on the field, and there's not really a clear answer right now.

[BR0D1E86]

It’s not even close to panic time with him, but to call what he’s done so far anything other than disappointing would be crazy.

He’s so bad at identifying defenses pre snap and so quickly gets nervous in the pocket as a result that he’s just shockingly inaccurate.

[wab]

I think what I've taken away from the first three games is that this is a really complex system and Mitch doesn't have it down. I mean...look at Carr (a former pro bowl QB) struggling in a very very similar offense.

He just needs to settle down and play.

[Rakshir]

Here's what I wrote on reddit the other day, which got no upvotes. lol

.[/b]

I agree with everything you said Mikefive. I guess I'm curious what Pace saw in Trubisky that made him such a catch over Mahomes and Watson. He seems fasinated with getting the developmental guys and discounts their college experience. I'm willing to give Trubisky a free pass as long as Nagy says he's developing, I hope as the year goes on he steadily improves.
Most of us here before Mack felt this was a year of improvement, but not a title run year. Now that the defense is playing lights out and we were very close to a 3 - 0 start the pressure has started to ramp up on Trubisky to play better now. I hope he rises to the occasion, but the more pressure he's under the less likely I think that is to happen this year.

[VA_Mountain_Bear]

Here's what I wrote on reddit the other day, which got no upvotes. lol

People need to take a step back and look at reality. Trubisky had 13 college starts after having studied the same offense for 3 years. He knew the offense very well, so despite having only a little experience--he did participate in 17 other college games, a bit here and a bit there. He is severely lacking in PT that most other QBs who enter the draft get. Can anyone name other college QBs who only started one year and by the beginning of year 2 in the NFL looked ready for prime time? There may be one or two outliers, but almost entirely, the answer here is NO.

Compare to Pat Mahomes. Four year starter (45 games?), who then sat during his rookie year to learn a sophisticated pro system. Not only that, Mahomes had a competent NFL veteran ahead of him that he would watch on the practice field and in the film room. Mahomes had a PERFECT situation setup for him. And it's paying dividends today.

Biscuit OTOH, had 13 college starts, studied under Mike Glennon and ended up being thrown into the fire under a coaching staff led by John Fox--a defensive guy who was never great with QBs--and Jay Cutler's hand picked OC Dowell Loggains. Trubisky was never given a chance to KNOW the offense before playing, had nobody to throw to and had ropes around his neck last year. This offseason, he's thrown into a complex offense that takes 3 years to learn and doesn't have it down yet. Imagine that.

People who say "he needs to play better now, because our D is ready to win now" or "2nd pick in the draft QBs should be able to play now" are just being ignorant of the reality. Mitchell Trubisky was a project from the day we drafted him and anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. Who said on draft day 2017 that he was going to play well right away? That would be nobody.

And nothing I've said suggests negatives about him as a prospect. He's a terrific person, worker and leader. He's a wonderful physical specimen with a very good arm and plus athletic ability. And he's displayed some accuracy at times along with some moxie.

But look at his mistakes. Sometimes, he's accurate. Other times not. The blitz has gotten to him at times because he can't identify it pre-snap. He doesn't see open guys. His decision making is questionable. In the 'Zona game, he threw it to guys covered by Patrick Petersen way too much (among other things). These errors are all indications that he can't process the information that's coming at him fast enough. And that shouldn't be surprising at this point in his development with the way things have played out for him. He simply needs to play more, so that he's not thinking too much and the game slows down for him. Actually, it would help if he could sit for the rest of the year, just to absorb the offense. But that's not going to be an option.

He's not going to get much better this year. I expect him to be somewhat better next year and be a real NFL QB in 2020. That's just how it is. So get used to yelling at your TVs (like I do). It's going to be a while. But eventually, the Trubisky experiment will bear fruit. That's my guess.

Spot on post sir! Very realistic outlook that fans and media need to adopt.

[Mikefive]

And for the record, most people told me I was nuts when I said Biscuit should sit for his rookie year. Well that strategy worked out pretty well for Pat Mahomes now, didn't it?

[wab]

And for the record, most people told me I was nuts when I said Biscuit should sit for his rookie year. Well that strategy worked out pretty well for Pat Mahomes now, didn't it?

Yeah but it's kind of apples and oranges. Mahomes sat and learned for a year in the same system.

[Mikefive]

And for the record, most people told me I was nuts when I said Biscuit should sit for his rookie year. Well that strategy worked out pretty well for Pat Mahomes now, didn't it?

Yeah but it's kind of apples and oranges. Mahomes sat and learned for a year in the same system.

True enough on the apples and oranges with a system change. But sitting sure worked out perfectly for him.

[IotaNet]

All very reasonable points that I agree with. As a long time Bears fan, I’ve heard a lot of complaints about how the Bears never develop young quarterbacks. This seems to be what developing a young QB looks like. And BTW, while our defense is playing lights out, they are YOUNG. IMO, we have a window for Biscuits development to progress in.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

All very reasonable points that I agree with. As a long time Bears fan, I’ve heard a lot of complaints about how the Bears never develop young quarterbacks. This seems to be what developing a young QB looks like. And BTW, while our defense is playing lights out, they are YOUNG. IMO, we have a window for Biscuits development to progress in.

This is the ironic fucking thing. Right? We finally decide to hire a young HC and develop a QB to run HIS system, and all of the meatball fans are like, "This sucks, the QB sucks. Fire the GM and get a new QB!" I mean. WTF?

[wab]

All very reasonable points that I agree with. As a long time Bears fan, I’ve heard a lot of complaints about how the Bears never develop young quarterbacks. This seems to be what developing a young QB looks like. And BTW, while our defense is playing lights out, they are YOUNG. IMO, we have a window for Biscuits development to progress in.

This is the ironic fucking thing. Right? We finally decide to hire a young HC and develop a QB to run HIS system, and all of the meatball fans are like, "This sucks, the QB sucks. Fire the GM and get a new QB!" I mean. WTF?

The "Chase Daniels should be starting!" idiots are the fucking worst. Chase Freaking Daniels. The guy who only has two starts on his 9 year long resume, the most recent one being half a decade ago.

Chase Daniels has SEVENTY EIGHT CAREER ATTEMPTS! In 9 years. NINE.

[IotaNet]

The "Chase Daniels should be starting!" idiots are the fucking worst. Chase Freaking Daniels. The guy who only has two starts on his 9 year long resume, the most recent one being half a decade ago.

Chase Daniels has SEVENTY EIGHT CAREER ATTEMPTS! In 9 years. NINE.

Hold on. Slow down.

Okay — I haven’t lived in Chicago in almost 15 years but has sports radio in the city gotten THAT bad???

Is that (“Chase Daniels”) REALLY a thing? Please tell me you’re kidding.

[wab]

The "Chase Daniels should be starting!" idiots are the fucking worst. Chase Freaking Daniels. The guy who only has two starts on his 9 year long resume, the most recent one being half a decade ago.

Chase Daniels has SEVENTY EIGHT CAREER ATTEMPTS! In 9 years. NINE.

Hold on. Slow down.

Okay — I haven’t lived in Chicago in almost 15 years but has sports radio in the city gotten THAT bad???

Is that (“Chase Daniels”) REALLY a thing? Please tell me you’re kidding.

Yes, it's really a thing.

[Boris13c]

The "Chase Daniels should be starting!" idiots are the fucking worst. Chase Freaking Daniels. The guy who only has two starts on his 9 year long resume, the most recent one being half a decade ago.

Chase Daniels has SEVENTY EIGHT CAREER ATTEMPTS! In 9 years. NINE.

Hold on. Slow down.

Okay — I haven’t lived in Chicago in almost 15 years but has sports radio in the city gotten THAT bad???

Is that (“Chase Daniels”) REALLY a thing? Please tell me you’re kidding.

Yes, it's really a thing.

yes, and Jason La Canfora is doubling down on that sentiment :

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Trubisky isn't the best QB on the roster? really?

La Canfora is an idiot

[UOK]

JLC has been ruthlessly shitty against Trubisky. Like to the point of being deliberately dumb.

[malk]

He's not going to get much better this year. I expect him to be somewhat better next year and be a real NFL QB in 2020. That's just how it is. So get used to yelling at your TVs (like I do). It's going to be a while. But eventually, the Trubisky experiment will bear fruit. That's my guess.[/b]

My worry here is that we've a) wasted most of his rookie deal and then b) have to make some big contract calls without much good play on tape.

[Rakshir]

He's not going to get much better this year. I expect him to be somewhat better next year and be a real NFL QB in 2020. That's just how it is. So get used to yelling at your TVs (like I do). It's going to be a while. But eventually, the Trubisky experiment will bear fruit. That's my guess.[/b]

My worry here is that we've a) wasted most of his rookie deal and then b) have to make some big contract calls without much good play on tape.

This is the issue I have with Pace's projects he drafts. You waste a year or two of their rookie deals while their trying to learn the pro game. But that seems to be his signiture move, or maybe with the drafting of Smith he's learning from his mistakes.

[Umbali]

I think the problem is several things.

First of all an offense needs to establish an identity. We have the ability to make a team fear our run. We dont need odd gimicky formations that puts our tackle out on a route. We dont need illegal formation calls. If we make teams fear " something" then that opens up something else.

Secondly , lets stop trying to get super fancy with some of the formations and run great routes of of them that actually help the QB. I am sure some of you saw that screen shot near the goal line with 4 receivers lined up right..with only 3 defenders on them yet Mitch never looked their way? His job was to go to the left all along. meh...goofy call and it was probably drilled into him to throw to the left.

Stop putting White in to block for screen. Send him deep once in a while. Let Mitch just chuck to it to him...someone TALL who can jump and maybe get the over throws lol..maybe even Wims...

I think sometimes the play calling hasnt helped Mitch. Maybe dumb it down a tad...work on making him efficient..and stop trying to look brilliant.

I dont want to see another 5 years of a great defense carrying a shit offense.

[The Marshall Plan]

Biscuit is on his second HC and OC in as many years as he's been in the league. Pretty much all new receivers too.

This offense also isn't the easiest to learn.

We are 2-1. Yes the defense is driving that, but we are 2-1. First place in the division too. We were thisclose to being 3-0.

I'm pretty happy right now. Biscuit is going to get the hang of it and become a pretty good QB. Time and pressure makes the diamond.

[malk]

He's not going to get much better this year. I expect him to be somewhat better next year and be a real NFL QB in 2020. That's just how it is. So get used to yelling at your TVs (like I do). It's going to be a while. But eventually, the Trubisky experiment will bear fruit. That's my guess.[/b]

My worry here is that we've a) wasted most of his rookie deal and then b) have to make some big contract calls without much good play on tape.

This is the issue I have with Pace's projects he drafts. You waste a year or two of their rookie deals while their trying to learn the pro game. But that seems to be his signiture move, or maybe with the drafting of Smith he's learning from his mistakes.

I don't think I'd agree for Pace's drafts in general, Goldman and Amos contributed immediately, then Floyd, Whitehair and Howard, then Jackson and Cohen (plus Shaheen was underutilised by Fox). We'll see who shakes out this year.

It's just a bad combination with QB salaries now what they are and a complicated system. I was hoping we'd have a genuine shot next year with this being the development year. That's still a decent probability but he needs to make some significant strides this year.

[KOP_Snake]

You all know about Russell Wilson, right? He actually played a lot of games like Mitch is playing now, in that team's glory years. The difference is Seattle fans were thrilled with how their 3 round pick was developing. Bears fans just have jealous eyes looking at Mahomes and the prestige of Mitch being a number 2 pick.

[BamaBear09]

The "Chase Daniels should be starting!" idiots are the fucking worst. Chase Freaking Daniels. The guy who only has two starts on his 9 year long resume, the most recent one being half a decade ago.

Chase Daniels has SEVENTY EIGHT CAREER ATTEMPTS! In 9 years. NINE.

Hold on. Slow down.

Okay — I haven’t lived in Chicago in almost 15 years but has sports radio in the city gotten THAT bad???

Is that (“Chase Daniels”) REALLY a thing? Please tell me you’re kidding.

Yes, it's really a thing.

Welcome to Chicago... where the backup QB is always the guy to lead the team...

I was not a fan of the Biscuit pick initially but came around as I saw him perform in his first preseason game, hoping to see improvement from there... and he had ups and downs in the big wheel offense from the mind of Loggins... The good moments were really good and the bad moments looked more like he just had a bad system and play calling so I had high hopes that with a great offensive mind planning and calling plays we would see some fireworks... and the first half of the GB game looked like we were headed that way... but what we have seen since makes me think his confidence is very shaky... what I am hoping for is Nagy to find some way to settle him down, sooner rather than later. He's missing throw in a way a very young QB would miss throws... and it looks like it is a breakdown of his mechanics... his feet are everywhere and so the ball is going everywhere. Nagy may have hit him with too much info at once and it got him into a place where what was coming naturally is having to be thought about. Maybe slow it down a bit this week and get him back into a comfort zone. A promising performance this week and I think the bye will help with him with fully righting the ship and getting back to that guy who can hit deep passes, if not we are in for a frustrating season...

[Moriarty]

All very reasonable points that I agree with. As a long time Bears fan, I’ve heard a lot of complaints about how the Bears never develop young quarterbacks. This seems to be what developing a young QB looks like. And BTW, while our defense is playing lights out, they are YOUNG. IMO, we have a window for Biscuits development to progress in.

I think that's a highly debatable statement.

What if Trubisky's development takes 2018 & 19?
(And there's no guarantee that after developing him you have anything good)

Amos may be gone after this season
Trevathan may be gone this year, if not, probably next
Lynch may be gone after this year
Floyd may have just this and one more
RRH may have just this and one more
Massie may be gone after this season
Whitehair may have this and one more
Long could break for good at any moment
Kush may be gone after this season
Howard may have this and one more

A lot of important players could be gone, and there aren't any quality draft picks backfilling them any time soon.

Pretty much everything is peaking right now...except for the most important position.

[alexwilkins]

Biscuit is on his second HC and OC in as many years as he's been in the league. Pretty much all new receivers too.

This offense also isn't the easiest to learn.

This. All this. If we include his last year in college, he’s on this third offense in three years. Plus, chemistry isn’t built over night. He’s playing with 5 of his 6 receivers for the first time.