Ryan Pace: How Ya Like Him Now?

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wab wrote:I don't think there was zero intention of being competitive. I think they were expected to be competitive, but I don't they were expected to win a lot.

It was a "Hey, get this team and locker room right, we aren't worried about wins right now. You have three years...but f you win, you have more."

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:I don't think there was zero intention of being competitive. I think they were expected to be competitive, but I don't they were expected to win a lot.

It was a "Hey, get this team and locker room right, we aren't worried about wins right now. You have three years...but f you win, you have more."

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
Weird how a lot of fans knew it but there's no way he could know it.
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KOP_Snake wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:I don't think there was zero intention of being competitive. I think they were expected to be competitive, but I don't they were expected to win a lot.

It was a "Hey, get this team and locker room right, we aren't worried about wins right now. You have three years...but f you win, you have more."

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
Weird how a lot of fans knew it but there's no way he could know it.

I'm sure he aware of the risk.

Saying "all of the fans knew he would suck" is super easy considering the (mostly justified) level of pessimism surrounding Bears fans.

It's ALWAYS easier to expect the worst in sports, as in life.
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Pagan wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:I don't think there was zero intention of being competitive. I think they were expected to be competitive, but I don't they were expected to win a lot.

It was a "Hey, get this team and locker room right, we aren't worried about wins right now. You have three years...but f you win, you have more."

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
Weird how a lot of fans knew it but there's no way he could know it.


I'm sure he aware of the risk.

Saying "all of the fans knew he would suck" is super easy considering the (mostly justified) level of pessimism surrounding Bears fans.

It's ALWAYS easier to expect the worst in sports, as in life.

Whatever man. Pace blew it on that. The best defense for Pace in that move is to speculate that it was just a draft smokescreen, that it wasn't a "real" signing. That it was a $15 million fake out. Its not his only move to be judged by, but its a clearly goes in the "against" column in Pace arguments, and saying "there's no way he could've seen that coming" is just apologist drivel.
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KOP_Snake wrote:
Pagan wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:I don't think there was zero intention of being competitive. I think they were expected to be competitive, but I don't they were expected to win a lot.

It was a "Hey, get this team and locker room right, we aren't worried about wins right now. You have three years...but f you win, you have more."

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
Weird how a lot of fans knew it but there's no way he could know it.


I'm sure he aware of the risk.

Saying "all of the fans knew he would suck" is super easy considering the (mostly justified) level of pessimism surrounding Bears fans.

It's ALWAYS easier to expect the worst in sports, as in life.

Whatever man. Pace blew it on that. The best defense for Pace in that move is to speculate that it was just a draft smokescreen, that it wasn't a "real" signing. That it was a $15 million fake out. Its not his only move to be judged by, but its a clearly goes in the "against" column in Pace arguments, and saying "there's no way he could've seen that coming" is just apologist drivel.
KOP,
I think you're totally missing my point & the use of quotation marks.

1st: I don't know who you're quoting.. but it's certainly NOT me who said, "there's no way he could've seen that coming"!
You can't even paraphrase what I said to equate that, as I did from what you clearly wrote.

#2: There was every reason to believe that Glennon was that Chase Daniels style steady but not spectacular back up QB that, yes.. was scheduled to make as much as Cutler was making for 1 year AND reasons to believe that he would've made a better mentor to what Pace knew was going to be a newly drafted future franchise QB.

Glennon simply couldn't handle the pressure.
That's on Glennon.

Ultimately you're only proving my point really.

You're continuing that lame, played out, over simplified sports fan argument of.. either totally for or against a player/Coach/GM.

Real life doesn't work in such extremes.

Rational thinking isn't "apologist drivel".

As for your "wild card" thoughts on Fox's tenure...
I 100% agree. I would also add to your well thought out points that the 3 years of record setting injuries played a very large roll to his demise as well.
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One possibility that we'll never know is that Pace or his people talked to Brian Hoyer types pre-FA (illegal, but everyone does it) and none of those experienced guys wanted to come to the Bears for whatever reason. So he had to settle for the giraffe who would come here. Signing him as early and expensively as we did makes a lot more sense if he didn't have other options.

Just speculation, but there's some logic there.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
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I think Pace wanted to give Glennon a shot misevaluation and also had it double down as a smoke screen that he wasn't really gunning for Trubisky with our high first round pick. Two bites at the apple... turns out that Glennon sucked but for the $18M or whatever it cost us I'd say it was worth it IF it played a role in helping us land Trubisky.
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Pagan wrote:1st: I don't know who you're quoting.. but it's certainly NOT me who said, "there's no way he could've seen that coming"!
You can't even paraphrase what I said to equate that, as I did from what you clearly wrote.
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.

You jumped in on the counter side to what I was writing, Pagan. You joined forces with BWN so now u gotta own that quote. Sorry bud.
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KOP_Snake wrote:
Pagan wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:I don't think there was zero intention of being competitive. I think they were expected to be competitive, but I don't they were expected to win a lot.

It was a "Hey, get this team and locker room right, we aren't worried about wins right now. You have three years...but f you win, you have more."

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
Weird how a lot of fans knew it but there's no way he could know it.


I'm sure he aware of the risk.

Saying "all of the fans knew he would suck" is super easy considering the (mostly justified) level of pessimism surrounding Bears fans.

It's ALWAYS easier to expect the worst in sports, as in life.

Whatever man. Pace blew it on that. The best defense for Pace in that move is to speculate that it was just a draft smokescreen, that it wasn't a "real" signing. That it was a $15 million fake out. Its not his only move to be judged by, but its a clearly goes in the "against" column in Pace arguments, and saying "there's no way he could've seen that coming" is just apologist drivel.
So what are you saying? That Pace knew how bad Glennon was, but signed him anyway? That's silly. Pace thought that Glennon was going to be able to run the offense for a year, and allow Trubisky to develop. Didn't work out that way. Is that on Pace? Absolutely. Does he have to own it? Absolutely. But there was no way for Pace to know that Glennon was going to be that inept.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Pagan wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:I don't think there was zero intention of being competitive. I think they were expected to be competitive, but I don't they were expected to win a lot.

It was a "Hey, get this team and locker room right, we aren't worried about wins right now. You have three years...but f you win, you have more."

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
Weird how a lot of fans knew it but there's no way he could know it.


I'm sure he aware of the risk.

Saying "all of the fans knew he would suck" is super easy considering the (mostly justified) level of pessimism surrounding Bears fans.

It's ALWAYS easier to expect the worst in sports, as in life.

Whatever man. Pace blew it on that. The best defense for Pace in that move is to speculate that it was just a draft smokescreen, that it wasn't a "real" signing. That it was a $15 million fake out. Its not his only move to be judged by, but its a clearly goes in the "against" column in Pace arguments, and saying "there's no way he could've seen that coming" is just apologist drivel.
So what are you saying? That Pace knew how bad Glennon was, but signed him anyway? That's silly. Pace thought that Glennon was going to be able to run the offense for a year, and allow Trubisky to develop. Didn't work out that way. Is that on Pace? Absolutely. Does he have to own it? Absolutely. But there was no way for Pace to know that Glennon was going to be that inept.

"Didn't" and "unable to" are different things. He didn't know how bad Glennon would be. He should've but didn't. And he was able to. The tape was out there. It's his job to know the talent when he sees it. I don't know why you have to give him a pass on it. Everything before the word "but" is bullshit, and...

"But there was no way for Pace to know that Glennon was going to be that inept."
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KOP_Snake wrote:
Pagan wrote:1st: I don't know who you're quoting.. but it's certainly NOT me who said, "there's no way he could've seen that coming"!
You can't even paraphrase what I said to equate that, as I did from what you clearly wrote.
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.



You jumped in on the counter side to what I was writing, Pagan. You joined forces with BWN so now u gotta own that quote. Sorry bud.
KOP I don't really know if you're having a meltdown or what.

So.. you didn't misquote me, you didn't do a shitty job of paraphrasing me & you didn't even twist my words to somehow fit your VERY I'll timed & nitpicky argument about the Bears GM....
INSTEAD.. you think it's wiser to put someone else's words on me?

Because you feel like I'm taking sides against you in, what I can only imagine is some sort of personal beef between you & BWN???

That's beyond weak dude.

My conversations are ALWAYS my own.

I agree & disagree with individual opinions & events = not stupid us against them BS.

Let's take it down a notch on the personal & stick to actual Bears topics that make sense please.
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KOP_Snake wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Pagan wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:

I think the wild cards in Fox's tenure were 1) losing Gase after the first year as OC, and 2) Glennon being as God-awful as he was. I truly believe Pace though he was, at the very least, getting a servicable journeyman QB in The Giraffe. He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.
Weird how a lot of fans knew it but there's no way he could know it.


I'm sure he aware of the risk.

Saying "all of the fans knew he would suck" is super easy considering the (mostly justified) level of pessimism surrounding Bears fans.

It's ALWAYS easier to expect the worst in sports, as in life.

Whatever man. Pace blew it on that. The best defense for Pace in that move is to speculate that it was just a draft smokescreen, that it wasn't a "real" signing. That it was a $15 million fake out. Its not his only move to be judged by, but its a clearly goes in the "against" column in Pace arguments, and saying "there's no way he could've seen that coming" is just apologist drivel.
So what are you saying? That Pace knew how bad Glennon was, but signed him anyway? That's silly. Pace thought that Glennon was going to be able to run the offense for a year, and allow Trubisky to develop. Didn't work out that way. Is that on Pace? Absolutely. Does he have to own it? Absolutely. But there was no way for Pace to know that Glennon was going to be that inept.

"Didn't" and "unable to" are different things. He didn't know how bad Glennon would be. He should've but didn't. And he was able to. The tape was out there. It's his job to know the talent when he sees it. I don't know why you have to give him a pass on it. Everything before the word "but" is bullshit, and...

"But there was no way for Pace to know that Glennon was going to be that inept."
You're very passionate about this topic. No one is giving him a pass. But I'm certainly not going to judge his entire tenure based on that signing. Glennon had put some good tape out there, and that was what Pace was hoping he was getting. He tried to find a one year stop gap QB, in an era when QB's want multi-year contracts at $20M+ a season. Pace's decision to sign Glennon, and keep the Bears out of the salary cap hell that the Vikings or Lions now find themselves in, with mediocre QB's getting huge multi-year salaries, allowed us to sign Mack this year. So you can look at it that way as well. Again, not a pass for signing Glennon, but there is a silver lining.
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We are excited about the Bears. Good picks or bad picks. Good signings or bad signings. This is the best team we have had since 84 through 89. To bitch about his job would be assinine.

Wonder how many people would actually not be proud of this team?
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EricTighe wrote:We are excited about the Bears. Good picks or bad picks. Good signings or bad signings. This is the best team we have had since 84 through 89. To bitch about his job would be assinine.

Wonder how many people would actually not be proud of this team?
The Browns and Raiders would take this team all day long.
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Maybe not the Raiders since they gave us and the Cowboys the reason we get to the playoffs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks Raider nation
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EricTighe wrote:Maybe not the Raiders since they gave us and the Cowboys the reason we get to the playoffs.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Thanks Raider nation
Took my son to get a haircut yesterday and the barber was saying he was a fan of the Raiders, and not happy w/Gruden. I spoke up and said hey why not, he's got 2 teams in the playoffs! He looked up like what? I said ya the Cowboys and the Bears.

true story, no one clapped. he laughed though.
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Pagan wrote:
KOP_Snake wrote:
Pagan wrote:1st: I don't know who you're quoting.. but it's certainly NOT me who said, "there's no way he could've seen that coming"!
You can't even paraphrase what I said to equate that, as I did from what you clearly wrote.
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:He couldn't have possibly known he would be that bad.



You jumped in on the counter side to what I was writing, Pagan. You joined forces with BWN so now u gotta own that quote. Sorry bud.
KOP I don't really know if you're having a meltdown or what.

So.. you didn't misquote me, you didn't do a shitty job of paraphrasing me & you didn't even twist my words to somehow fit your VERY I'll timed & nitpicky argument about the Bears GM....
INSTEAD.. you think it's wiser to put someone else's words on me?

Because you feel like I'm taking sides against you in, what I can only imagine is some sort of personal beef between you & BWN???

That's beyond weak dude.

My conversations are ALWAYS my own.

I agree & disagree with individual opinions & events = not stupid us against them BS.

Let's take it down a notch on the personal & stick to actual Bears topics that make sense please.

Lol you are taking this beyond seriously.


I guess it boils down to:


-Pace mad a bad move. It doesn't make/break his career, but it was a bad move that he should've had the knowledge to know it was bad.


-I was joking mostly with what I said about jumping on with BWN, but this is a forum thread. Not a lot of room for "oh wait Pagan actually said this BWN said that, I better make sure I separate these conversations even though Pagan quoted a whole thread"
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Can we just all agree that Pace likes to overpay QBs? Hello Chase Daniel!
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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Pace is the best we've had in a long time. It takes a few drafts and FA classes to turn over a 53 man rooster. He used 1-year stop gap deals to fill in the first few years while he drafted and rebuilt. He never feared going up to get his guy, I like that conviction and it has mostly paid off. He resigned the 1 year vets who worked out for us. Found talent in the late and middle of draft. He kept the salary cap under control and his powder dry until he felt it was the right time to strike and got us Mack and Robinson, and kept Fuller and Amukamura. Has he missed some? Absolutely. Find me a GM on any sports team that hasn't. Do you see a winning rooster with depth and a good future ahead? He didn't get autonomy to pick his first HC, but do you like what you see here with Nagy? I do, that's Ryan Pace folks. I like him fine.
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If I quote & reply it'll take up an entire page at this point lol.

Apparently, armbaring & choking people out who are absolutely terrible at having convos is NOT a viable options.. So I'll just say this;
I honestly love how passionate our Bears fans here at the BFO are!

We're all hanging out spending our free time (some of you bums work time) here to share/debate/enjoy our shared fanaticism.

There's nothing wrong with different opinions & disagreements.
Let's all just take care to NOT let this wonderful place slide into the troll abyss that is Twitter & fb Bears groups please.
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A backup QB winning a division game and nearly winning a game he had a tremendous part in losing makes the contract a wash. A backup QB versed well enough in the offense to be essentially another coach is simply a bonus.

If you think Tyler Bray or some other turd would be a suitable backup as well as helping Trubisky grasp the vernacular, you're grasping at straws to be as entrenched as possible.
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UOK wrote: A backup QB versed well enough in the offense to be essentially another coach is simply a bonus.

If you think Tyler Bray or some other turd would be a suitable backup as well as helping Trubisky grasp the vernacular, you're grasping at straws to be as entrenched as possible.
Excellent point. What he offers to Bisky for his development, and his 100% acceptance of that role are not insignificant.
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Apparently the Bears are just supposed to hand out vet minimums and rookie deals for ever and ever amen.
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wab wrote:Apparently the Bears are just supposed to hand out vet minimums and rookie deals for ever and ever amen.

It's the same old tired shit.
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UOK wrote:
wab wrote:Apparently the Bears are just supposed to hand out vet minimums and rookie deals for ever and ever amen.

It's the same old tired shit.
After Nick Foles left the Eagles the first time he got contracts of $4m, $1.75m and $1.6m. I don't think giving $5m per year and $7m guaranteed to Daniel wasn't particularly smart from Pace, especially with a new coach and years where we're likely not competing for a ring (though hopefully we're outside, but genuine, contenders next year).

I know everything is supposed to be fine right now but when we have to start choosing between Amos or Callahan or Massive I'm going to be looking back and thinking, gee, maybe we shouldn't have pissed away $25m on Glennon and Daniel...
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.
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G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.
That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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malk wrote:
UOK wrote:
wab wrote:Apparently the Bears are just supposed to hand out vet minimums and rookie deals for ever and ever amen.

It's the same old tired shit.
After Nick Foles left the Eagles the first time he got contracts of $4m, $1.75m and $1.6m. I don't think giving $5m per year and $7m guaranteed to Daniel wasn't particularly smart from Pace, especially with a new coach and years where we're likely not competing for a ring (though hopefully we're outside, but genuine, contenders next year).

I know everything is supposed to be fine right now but when we have to start choosing between Amos or Callahan or Massive I'm going to be looking back and thinking, gee, maybe we shouldn't have pissed away $25m on Glennon and Daniel...
There's no doubt about Glennon. You'll never get a single argument from me about that. It wasn't a horrible deal to get out of, but it was probably on the surface the worst contract in Bears history.
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malk wrote:
G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.
That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...
We can cut him for $3M of dead cap space after this season.
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malk wrote:
G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.
That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...
NFL contracts aren't as black and white as you tend to make them. If the Bears want to keep Amos they can, regardless of a contract they gave a QB two years ago.
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