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malk wrote:

UOK wrote:

wab wrote:Apparently the Bears are just supposed to hand out vet minimums and rookie deals for ever and ever amen.

It's the same old tired shit.

After Nick Foles left the Eagles the first time he got contracts of $4m, $1.75m and $1.6m. I don't think giving $5m per year and $7m guaranteed to Daniel wasn't particularly smart from Pace, especially with a new coach and years where we're likely not competing for a ring (though hopefully we're outside, but genuine, contenders next year).

I know everything is supposed to be fine right now but when we have to start choosing between Amos or Callahan or Massive I'm going to be looking back and thinking, gee, maybe we shouldn't have pissed away $25m on Glennon and Daniel...

Was that meant to be a dig or was it just an excellent misspelling?

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

Yes it is fine & will continue to be fine.

Properly training of a franchise QB is easily worth 3 Amos.
Amoses.
3 Amoses:s...

Yeah... either way... We've ALL been pissin & moaning about this franchises inability to find & CULTIVATE a franchise QB.
I say... let them do their job of that & maybe even appreciate it.!?

Pagan wrote:

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

Yes it is fine & will continue to be fine.

Properly training of a franchise QB is easily worth 3 Amos.
Amoses.
3 Amoses:s...

Yeah... either way... We've ALL been pissin & moaning about this franchises inability to find & CULTIVATE a franchise QB.
I say... let them do their job of that & maybe even appreciate it.!?

Sounds like you were heading toward... mamosas.

Yea give me a chase Daniel who can at least give you a chance to win over a jimmy clausen who gives you zero hope of winning. That Seattle game where it was like a fan had won a raffle prize to play bears QB for the day was both embarrassing and disgusting.

That’s the difference right there. It’s night and day.

Bearfanuk wrote:Yea give me a chase Daniel who can at least give you a chance to win over a jimmy clausen who gives you zero hope of winning. That Seattle game where it was like a fan had won a raffle prize to play bears QB for the day was both embarrassing and disgusting.

That’s the difference right there. It’s night and day.

Daniels came in & the team went 1 & 1, which is pretty much what you expect in a halfway decent back up scenario.
His biggest value has always been his ability to accelerate Mitchs understanding of the Nagy offense, which seems to have been quite the boon.

TOTALLY worth the $.

G08 wrote:

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

We can cut him for $3M of dead cap space after this season.

And all the dead cap adds up to good players leaving in free agency. The Saints are a prime example of this and given Pace's express love for how they operate, I worry about it! This year we've got $14,949,222 in dead cap space, of course this can't be reduced to zero but it really shouldn't be that high.

UOK wrote:There's no doubt about Glennon. You'll never get a single argument from me about that. It wasn't a horrible deal to get out of, but it was probably on the surface the worst contract in Bears history.

This is where we disagree, it was a horrible deal to get out of, $16m is a lot of cap space and will materially effect our roster in future. We will lose someone we don't want to in free agency because of this.

wab wrote:

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

NFL contracts aren't as black and white as you tend to make them. If the Bears want to keep Amos they can, regardless of a contract they gave a QB two years ago.

I'm not sure how I'm making them black and white? And maybe they can keep Amos but can they keep Amos AND Callahan AND Massie? And then can they keep Trevathan, Floyd and Whitehair the year after, then in 2021 Allen Robinson, Prince Amukamara, Mitchell Trubisky, Adam Shaheen, Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen...

Yes some difficult choices will always have to be made but why make them harder? What's the marginal improvement in our win % by having Daniel over a cheaper QB. How important is that improvement in the given year and what's the opportunity cost of the improvement in future years? Are future years likely to be more important than the current one?

Those aren't easy questions and there aren't correct answers per se, but I do have reservations, based on Pace's actions (and the general, predictable/understandable short termism in the NFL) that he focusses a little too much on the here and now at the expense of our prime window years or, and this would be more important, developing a structure where we can be perennial contenders rather than cyclical ones.

To be very clear, where we are now is much, much better than what we've been recently but this being an internet message board, I want to strive towards perfection.

Pagan wrote:

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

Yes it is fine & will continue to be fine.

Properly training of a franchise QB is easily worth 3 Amos.
Amoses.
3 Amoses:s...

Yeah... either way... We've ALL been pissin & moaning about this franchises inability to find & CULTIVATE a franchise QB.
I say... let them do their job of that & maybe even appreciate it.!?

That's a false dichotomy though, this isn't between Amos (or whichever player) or the proper training of a franchise QB but between the marginal improvement of having Daniel instead of another, cheaper vet QB (e.g. the same argument was made for Sanchez) on top of Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone.

Of course there's also the marginal improvement to W/L % of Daniel over a cheaper vet which is important.

My view is that the improvement to an early career QB that comes from a particular vet backup is pretty small. The vast majority comes from actual coaching. Sure, don't put them in a bad situation with an arsehole that's willing them to fail to get their chance but that's not a possibility here.

Pagan wrote:

Bearfanuk wrote:Yea give me a chase Daniel who can at least give you a chance to win over a jimmy clausen who gives you zero hope of winning. That Seattle game where it was like a fan had won a raffle prize to play bears QB for the day was both embarrassing and disgusting.

That’s the difference right there. It’s night and day.

Daniels came in & the team went 1 & 1, which is pretty much what you expect in a halfway decent back up scenario.
His biggest value has always been his ability to accelerate Mitchs understanding of the Nagy offense, which seems to have been quite the boon.

TOTALLY worth the $.

This is a good example to highlight part of my point. How important is that extra win, or rather the increase in probability of getting that win over a cheaper backup, in a season where we're not really contending? If that's the win that gets us into the playoffs then I might take a different view but a) I suspect it won't be and b) with our defence and offensive weapons I think there are a good few backups who could have beaten the Lions and/or not thrown 2 interceptions (including a pick 6) and fumbled 4 times against the Giants.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Pace or the Bear's set up is/are bad by any stretch, but there are things that could be improved.

Mikefive wrote:Was that meant to be a dig or was it just an excellent misspelling?

Never a dig, I think Bobbie Massive is underrated!

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

We can cut him for $3M of dead cap space after this season.

And all the dead cap adds up to good players leaving in free agency. The Saints are a prime example of this and given Pace's express love for how they operate, I worry about it! This year we've got $14,949,222 in dead cap space, of course this can't be reduced to zero but it really shouldn't be that high.

UOK wrote:There's no doubt about Glennon. You'll never get a single argument from me about that. It wasn't a horrible deal to get out of, but it was probably on the surface the worst contract in Bears history.

This is where we disagree, it was a horrible deal to get out of, $16m is a lot of cap space and will materially effect our roster in future. We will lose someone we don't want to in free agency because of this.

wab wrote:

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

NFL contracts aren't as black and white as you tend to make them. If the Bears want to keep Amos they can, regardless of a contract they gave a QB two years ago.

I'm not sure how I'm making them black and white? And maybe they can keep Amos but can they keep Amos AND Callahan AND Massie? And then can they keep Trevathan, Floyd and Whitehair the year after, then in 2021 Allen Robinson, Prince Amukamara, Mitchell Trubisky, Adam Shaheen, Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen...

Yes some difficult choices will always have to be made but why make them harder? What's the marginal improvement in our win % by having Daniel over a cheaper QB. How important is that improvement in the given year and what's the opportunity cost of the improvement in future years? Are future years likely to be more important than the current one?

Those aren't easy questions and there aren't correct answers per se, but I do have reservations, based on Pace's actions (and the general, predictable/understandable short termism in the NFL) that he focusses a little too much on the here and now at the expense of our prime window years or, and this would be more important, developing a structure where we can be perennial contenders rather than cyclical ones.

To be very clear, where we are now is much, much better than what we've been recently but this being an internet message board, I want to strive towards perfection.

Pagan wrote:

malk wrote:

G08 wrote:I think Daniel's greatest impact on this team is "tutoring" Trubisky. Let's not make this more than what it is.

That's fine until Amos is wearing another jersey because Trubisky got another $7m of coaching in addition to Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone...

Yes it is fine & will continue to be fine.

Properly training of a franchise QB is easily worth 3 Amos.
Amoses.
3 Amoses:s...

Yeah... either way... We've ALL been pissin & moaning about this franchises inability to find & CULTIVATE a franchise QB.
I say... let them do their job of that & maybe even appreciate it.!?

That's a false dichotomy though, this isn't between Amos (or whichever player) or the proper training of a franchise QB but between the marginal improvement of having Daniel instead of another, cheaper vet QB (e.g. the same argument was made for Sanchez) on top of Nagy, Helfrich, Ragone.

Of course there's also the marginal improvement to W/L % of Daniel over a cheaper vet which is important.

My view is that the improvement to an early career QB that comes from a particular vet backup is pretty small. The vast majority comes from actual coaching. Sure, don't put them in a bad situation with an arsehole that's willing them to fail to get their chance but that's not a possibility here.

Pagan wrote:

Bearfanuk wrote:Yea give me a chase Daniel who can at least give you a chance to win over a jimmy clausen who gives you zero hope of winning. That Seattle game where it was like a fan had won a raffle prize to play bears QB for the day was both embarrassing and disgusting.

That’s the difference right there. It’s night and day.

Daniels came in & the team went 1 & 1, which is pretty much what you expect in a halfway decent back up scenario.
His biggest value has always been his ability to accelerate Mitchs understanding of the Nagy offense, which seems to have been quite the boon.

TOTALLY worth the $.

This is a good example to highlight part of my point. How important is that extra win, or rather the increase in probability of getting that win over a cheaper backup, in a season where we're not really contending? If that's the win that gets us into the playoffs then I might take a different view but a) I suspect it won't be and b) with our defence and offensive weapons I think there are a good few backups who could have beaten the Lions and/or not thrown 2 interceptions (including a pick 6) and fumbled 4 times against the Giants.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Pace or the Bear's set up is/are bad by any stretch, but there are things that could be improved.

Mikefive wrote:Was that meant to be a dig or was it just an excellent misspelling?

Never a dig, I think Bobbie Massive is underrated!

I feel like you deposit the pennies you find on the ground into the retirement funds of children that won't be born for another generation.

wab wrote: I feel like you deposit the pennies you find on the ground into the retirement funds of children that won't be born for another generation.

Compound interest is pretty incredible...

Honestly though, I think there are three/four broad phases of an NFL team. Rebuilding, starting a window, clinging onto a window and perennial contending.

Rebuilds are all about finding talent and not wasting cap space. Typically that's finding a QB and getting some building block players on the books, preferably somewhat front-loaded but certainly not backloaded. This is what most teams try. To go a step further you shouldn't waste cap in these years on established talent unless you're front loading. All those low to mid priced vets you see teams sign to shore up the roster are just a waste, better to sign high risk reward types as you're not winning much anyway, try to catch lightning in a bottle. The worst that happens is they don't pan out and you get better draft picks.

Also trade down from the top of the 1st, preferably outside the top 10. The cap savings are worth it in addition to extra picks, plus it makes the 5th year option cheaper too.

Starting a window is about adding talent for the peak years of the run. At this point it's fine to bring in high priced free agents for the window period or beyond, especially if you're leveraging a rookie deal QB, but don't overspend on short term talent when you're not quite there (this is us now).

Clinging onto a window is when it's likely going to shit but you might as well roll the dice. Probably like us, at first, with Cutler, Emery, Trestman so, sure, might as well roll the dice, just go all out for a short period rather than screwing yourself for years. The Giants are doing this badly and I bet the Packers end up looking the same as they won't gut for a year or two to rebuild properly. Halfway house rebuilding on the fly just wastes prime years and messes up the draft, like us at the start of the Fox era.

Perennial Contending is when you listen to me and don't try too hard to win rings. It won't happen every year so don't make knee jerk signings to get over the hump that really just introduce a window.

All teams need is to give me a big wooden ruler and have me sit in for discussions on free agency. Anytime the GM is about to do something silly I smack their hands with the ruler, say a firm no, and move on.

Then we wait for the rings.

{{Me:

Daniels came in & the team went 1 & 1, which is pretty much what you expect in a halfway decent back up scenario.
His biggest value has always been his ability to accelerate Mitchs understanding of the Nagy offense, which seems to have been quite the boon.

TOTALLY worth the $}}


((TheMalk

This is a good example to highlight part of my point. How important is that extra win, or rather the increase in probability of getting that win over a cheaper backup, in a season where we're not really contending? If that's the win that gets us into the playoffs then I might take a different view but a) I suspect it won't be and b) with our defence and offensive weapons I think there are a good few backups who could have beaten the Lions and/or not thrown 2 interceptions (including a pick 6) and fumbled 4 times against the Giants.))

* * *

I think you made some great points (many not shown here)

As for your example of highlighting part of your previous point... I suppose it may be as nebulous as mine.

If I get your point, there's no true way to quantify the extra hands on coaching that Chase is providing Mitch ~ ESPECIALLY in terms of $$$$.

At the same time, I'm not sure how you can talk about probability when questioning the possibility of another (cheaper) back up QB playing at the same level as Chase.

Starting QB's stats are erratic enough on their own.. I don't even know where I'd start at trying to reliably chart the back ups Win/loss to $ value ratio.

On my side of things... Mitch certainly seems to be developing (& quickly) into a very good NFL starting QB!

There's zero way to know what % of mentorship Chase has contributed to Trubiskis growth.

But considering the overall value of a really good franchise QB vs an average to below average NFL starter???

I'll double down on that bet and STILL gladly pay Chase $7 Million (especially with someone else's wallet).

It pretty simple really ...... Mitch is on a rookie contract so you have a cheap starting QB. You can then spend a little more on a back up QC. When one is installing a new system, it makes perfect sense to spend a little more and make sure you get an experienced QB in that system (we got two since Bray was in KC too). Once you get to be like Rogers, Brady, or Brees..... your only choice is to have a backup on a rookie deal since they are commanding so much money. It is all about allocating X percent of your cap on QB and keeping it consistent. Same should go for ever position on the team if you want to build a perennial winner. If you start spending too much money on one position you will have holes elsewhere, that is why you have to keep it consistent from year to year.

Once we have to re-sign Mitch you are looking at 4th round and later draft picks to fill the QB room.

I agree it is impossible to ever quantify how much Daniels may or may not have added to Mitch's development. However how many of the great QB's attributed their success to that veteran QB who helped teach them the ropes. ? Opposed to how many times they attributed their success to their Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator or Quarterback Coach. I think the veteran QB mentoring they young QB is a myth. I can see the value in having a backup familiar with the system, so if they need to jump in they can. But there's no upside to Daniels, I'd rather see a guy with the chance of having some upside get snaps. Then you can possiblily trade them ala Garoppolo.

Rakshir wrote:I agree it is impossible to ever quantify how much Daniels may or may not have added to Mitch's development. However how many of the great QB's attributed their success to that veteran QB who helped teach them the ropes. ? Opposed to how many times they attributed their success to their Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator or Quarterback Coach. I think the veteran QB mentoring they young QB is a myth. I can see the value in having a backup familiar with the system, so if they need to jump in they can. But there's no upside to Daniels, I'd rather see a guy with the chance of having some upside get snaps. Then you can possiblily trade them ala Garoppolo.

I believe Mitch has been quoted at least twice saying that he believes that Chase has been a huge help in transitioning from last years offense to Nagys QB intensive system.

Chase himself regularly states that his 1st job is helping the starter be prepared for the next game.

I DO agree with you that, as in many positions, players are generally unlikely to truly train their competitors to take their jobs.

I feel like Pace & Nagy are finding/coaching players who are great leaders & I suspect there are quite a few vets training up the younger players here.

I think it kind of depends on the situation. Here w/not just a rookie/young qb, but a highly inexperienced one he probably needs more help from a vet, not just in how to play, but how to prepare. And remember coaches b/c of the cba only have so much time w/the players now, having a vet qb mentor probably helps more then it might have in past years.

KhalilSackDaddy wrote: ... And remember coaches b/c of the cba only have so much time w/the players now, having a vet qb mentor probably helps more then it might have in past years.

I hadn't considered this angle. Excellent point!

Pagan wrote:

Rakshir wrote:I agree it is impossible to ever quantify how much Daniels may or may not have added to Mitch's development. However how many of the great QB's attributed their success to that veteran QB who helped teach them the ropes. ? Opposed to how many times they attributed their success to their Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator or Quarterback Coach. I think the veteran QB mentoring they young QB is a myth. I can see the value in having a backup familiar with the system, so if they need to jump in they can. But there's no upside to Daniels, I'd rather see a guy with the chance of having some upside get snaps. Then you can possiblily trade them ala Garoppolo.

I believe Mitch has been quoted at least twice saying that he believes that Chase has been a huge help in transitioning from last years offense to Nagys QB intensive system.

Chase himself regularly states that his 1st job is helping the starter be prepared for the next game.

I DO agree with you that, as in many positions, players are generally unlikely to truly train their competitors to take their jobs.

I feel like Pace & Nagy are finding/coaching players who are great leaders & I suspect there are quite a few vets training up the younger players here.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, because I don't know. But can you imagine Mitch saying... "Nah, Chase doesn't work with me much" or Chase saying "I have enough to learn in our offense and don't have time to babysit Mitch. He's a big boy." ????

Point is, talk is really, really cheap when guys are saying what the team wants them to say. Now that doesn't mean that you're wrong in any way, just that their words to that effect really shouldn't count as evidence.

Mikefive wrote:

Pagan wrote:

Rakshir wrote:I agree it is impossible to ever quantify how much Daniels may or may not have added to Mitch's development. However how many of the great QB's attributed their success to that veteran QB who helped teach them the ropes. ? Opposed to how many times they attributed their success to their Head Coach, Offensive Coordinator or Quarterback Coach. I think the veteran QB mentoring they young QB is a myth. I can see the value in having a backup familiar with the system, so if they need to jump in they can. But there's no upside to Daniels, I'd rather see a guy with the chance of having some upside get snaps. Then you can possiblily trade them ala Garoppolo.

I believe Mitch has been quoted at least twice saying that he believes that Chase has been a huge help in transitioning from last years offense to Nagys QB intensive system.

Chase himself regularly states that his 1st job is helping the starter be prepared for the next game.

I DO agree with you that, as in many positions, players are generally unlikely to truly train their competitors to take their jobs.

I feel like Pace & Nagy are finding/coaching players who are great leaders & I suspect there are quite a few vets training up the younger players here.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong, because I don't know. But can you imagine Mitch saying... "Nah, Chase doesn't work with me much" or Chase saying "I have enough to learn in our offense and don't have time to babysit Mitch. He's a big boy." ????

Point is, talk is really, really cheap when guys are saying what the team wants them to say. Now that doesn't mean that you're wrong in any way, just that their words to that effect really shouldn't count as evidence.

Totally agree.
Talk IS cheap.
100%.

Which is why, when it comes to all problem solving, I never just state an opinion.
It has to go through filters 1st.

My opinion Recipe:
I always take all of the garbage I hear, add it to the things I've seen, mix that stuff real good with what I've learned in life.... sprinkle on a dash of critical thinking..

& presto~ChangO = Educated opinion/correct observation discovered!

It's like magic really.
Only better.
Cuz it uses higher reasoning skills & observable facts.

* * *

It's not that a 2 sentenced point containing a old favorite platitude like "Talk is cheap" is without any value... it's simply not as valuable as problem solving that uses a proper filter or 2.

I guess you can say.. ^^these^^ kinds of opinions are a recipe...
for disaster!
(See what I did there?)

In fairness, I left the door open for a) that it might be true (or might not)… you just don't know, and b) non-verbal evidence, such as seeing those two having sideline discussions when the defense is on the field which we have indeed seen.

sturf wrote:It still is the most amazing sequence of events. First, Ryan Pace stayed disciplined and didn't chase a weak pass rusher market both in free agency and the draft even though it became the biggest hole on the team. He stayed committed to that all the way through training camp never even taking a flyer on a guy. Right or wrong Pace was clearly prepared to go into the season with Floyd in a cast and Lynch having not practiced all training camp.

Then somehow Mack comes available who is not only an elite pass rusher and player, but exactly the ideal type of pass rusher and player that the Bears needed in a power OLB to play opposite Floyd's versatility. The absolutely perfect player to fill that giant hole Pace had left on the roster. A hole Pace suddenly filled using all of that saved cap space and draft capital.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

Pace is officially "The Man."

IotaNet wrote:

sturf wrote:It still is the most amazing sequence of events. First, Ryan Pace stayed disciplined and didn't chase a weak pass rusher market both in free agency and the draft even though it became the biggest hole on the team. He stayed committed to that all the way through training camp never even taking a flyer on a guy. Right or wrong Pace was clearly prepared to go into the season with Floyd in a cast and Lynch having not practiced all training camp.

Then somehow Mack comes available who is not only an elite pass rusher and player, but exactly the ideal type of pass rusher and player that the Bears needed in a power OLB to play opposite Floyd's versatility. The absolutely perfect player to fill that giant hole Pace had left on the roster. A hole Pace suddenly filled using all of that saved cap space and draft capital.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

Pace is officially "The Man."

Minor quibble in that Pace did "take a flier" on Aaron Lynch, albeit a not very expensive one.

On your description of Mack, one thing that is underappreciated in the media is that he is a TREMENDOUS person, worker and leader, traits which carry exceptional value with Pace and the McCaskey organization. And as you said, Pace hit a grand slam there.

Along with Nagy being coach of the year, Ryan Pace wins executive of the year. Not sure I'm sticking my neck out so far on this one. But I'm calling it right here right now.

Mikefive wrote:

IotaNet wrote:

sturf wrote:It still is the most amazing sequence of events. First, Ryan Pace stayed disciplined and didn't chase a weak pass rusher market both in free agency and the draft even though it became the biggest hole on the team. He stayed committed to that all the way through training camp never even taking a flyer on a guy. Right or wrong Pace was clearly prepared to go into the season with Floyd in a cast and Lynch having not practiced all training camp.

Then somehow Mack comes available who is not only an elite pass rusher and player, but exactly the ideal type of pass rusher and player that the Bears needed in a power OLB to play opposite Floyd's versatility. The absolutely perfect player to fill that giant hole Pace had left on the roster. A hole Pace suddenly filled using all of that saved cap space and draft capital.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

Pace is officially "The Man."

Minor quibble in that Pace did "take a flier" on Aaron Lynch, albeit a not very expensive one.

On your description of Mack, one thing that is underappreciated in the media is that he is a TREMENDOUS person, worker and leader, traits which carry exceptional value with Pace and the McCaskey organization. And as you said, Pace hit a grand slam there.

Along with Nagy being coach of the year, Ryan Pace wins executive of the year. Not sure I'm sticking my neck out so far on this one. But I'm calling it right here right now.

My memory could be wrong, but im pretty sure i had Nagy as coach of the year and pace as executive of the year in my 13-3 prediction in the season prediction thread. Just sayin

HurricaneBear wrote:

Mikefive wrote:

IotaNet wrote:

sturf wrote:It still is the most amazing sequence of events. First, Ryan Pace stayed disciplined and didn't chase a weak pass rusher market both in free agency and the draft even though it became the biggest hole on the team. He stayed committed to that all the way through training camp never even taking a flyer on a guy. Right or wrong Pace was clearly prepared to go into the season with Floyd in a cast and Lynch having not practiced all training camp.

Then somehow Mack comes available who is not only an elite pass rusher and player, but exactly the ideal type of pass rusher and player that the Bears needed in a power OLB to play opposite Floyd's versatility. The absolutely perfect player to fill that giant hole Pace had left on the roster. A hole Pace suddenly filled using all of that saved cap space and draft capital.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

Pace is officially "The Man."

Minor quibble in that Pace did "take a flier" on Aaron Lynch, albeit a not very expensive one.

On your description of Mack, one thing that is underappreciated in the media is that he is a TREMENDOUS person, worker and leader, traits which carry exceptional value with Pace and the McCaskey organization. And as you said, Pace hit a grand slam there.

Along with Nagy being coach of the year, Ryan Pace wins executive of the year. Not sure I'm sticking my neck out so far on this one. But I'm calling it right here right now.

My memory could be wrong, but im pretty sure i had Nagy as coach of the year and pace as executive of the year in my 13-3 prediction in the season prediction thread. Just sayin

I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't predict anything regarding Nagy, but Nagy COY reports are already leaking out. I'm calling Pace as executive of the year.

Mikefive wrote:

HurricaneBear wrote:

Mikefive wrote:

IotaNet wrote:

sturf wrote:It still is the most amazing sequence of events. First, Ryan Pace stayed disciplined and didn't chase a weak pass rusher market both in free agency and the draft even though it became the biggest hole on the team. He stayed committed to that all the way through training camp never even taking a flyer on a guy. Right or wrong Pace was clearly prepared to go into the season with Floyd in a cast and Lynch having not practiced all training camp.

Then somehow Mack comes available who is not only an elite pass rusher and player, but exactly the ideal type of pass rusher and player that the Bears needed in a power OLB to play opposite Floyd's versatility. The absolutely perfect player to fill that giant hole Pace had left on the roster. A hole Pace suddenly filled using all of that saved cap space and draft capital.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

Pace is officially "The Man."

Minor quibble in that Pace did "take a flier" on Aaron Lynch, albeit a not very expensive one.

On your description of Mack, one thing that is underappreciated in the media is that he is a TREMENDOUS person, worker and leader, traits which carry exceptional value with Pace and the McCaskey organization. And as you said, Pace hit a grand slam there.

Along with Nagy being coach of the year, Ryan Pace wins executive of the year. Not sure I'm sticking my neck out so far on this one. But I'm calling it right here right now.

My memory could be wrong, but im pretty sure i had Nagy as coach of the year and pace as executive of the year in my 13-3 prediction in the season prediction thread. Just sayin

I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't predict anything regarding Nagy, but Nagy COY reports are already leaking out. I'm calling Pace as executive of the year.

I know, i was just joking around, and bragging a little bit because i called both a few months ago and i am so rarely even close to being right with my predictions.

I'd say that once he became "unbundled" from John Fox last winter and given his shot at building the team his way he's been an All Pro GM and should finally get some recognition for it.

The trade up to secure Trubisky looks like it's bearing fruit. Mahomes may have peaked faster but has had advantages Mitch has not. I still believe he's the right guy for this team and always have

2018 FA was a masterpiece of work. Not only did he get ARob whom the Packers also wanted but when they tried to take Fuller away with a front loaded deal he immediately flipped them the bird and matched it. Then he added the supporting cast of Burton, Gabriel, and Miller turning a 2017 weakness into a strength.

But the coup de gras was Mack. Without him we aren't NFNC Champs.

What's kind of amusing is how both SF and GB lined up on Oakland's doorstep and thought they had him when along comes Pace and says excuse me John, excuse me Brian, but I'm here to pick up my new All World OLB. See you both later on.

When it was announced I got a kick out of GB guys saying "Oh man I thought he was coming here fo sho" and SF claiming they had made a better offer so why didn't Oakland deal with them. Of course we know why and also what it's been like to fail at getting prized UFAs for years.

Mack was a huge factor in both GB games and hopefully SF will regret missing out this coming weekend.

So yeah. I'm liking Ryan Pace right now a whole lot.

Mikefive wrote:

HurricaneBear wrote:

Mikefive wrote:

IotaNet wrote:

sturf wrote:It still is the most amazing sequence of events. First, Ryan Pace stayed disciplined and didn't chase a weak pass rusher market both in free agency and the draft even though it became the biggest hole on the team. He stayed committed to that all the way through training camp never even taking a flyer on a guy. Right or wrong Pace was clearly prepared to go into the season with Floyd in a cast and Lynch having not practiced all training camp.

Then somehow Mack comes available who is not only an elite pass rusher and player, but exactly the ideal type of pass rusher and player that the Bears needed in a power OLB to play opposite Floyd's versatility. The absolutely perfect player to fill that giant hole Pace had left on the roster. A hole Pace suddenly filled using all of that saved cap space and draft capital.

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner.

Pace is officially "The Man."

Minor quibble in that Pace did "take a flier" on Aaron Lynch, albeit a not very expensive one.

On your description of Mack, one thing that is underappreciated in the media is that he is a TREMENDOUS person, worker and leader, traits which carry exceptional value with Pace and the McCaskey organization. And as you said, Pace hit a grand slam there.

Along with Nagy being coach of the year, Ryan Pace wins executive of the year. Not sure I'm sticking my neck out so far on this one. But I'm calling it right here right now.

My memory could be wrong, but im pretty sure i had Nagy as coach of the year and pace as executive of the year in my 13-3 prediction in the season prediction thread. Just sayin

I guess I wasn't clear. I didn't predict anything regarding Nagy, but Nagy COY reports are already leaking out. I'm calling Pace as executive of the year.

Both for good reason. it wasn't to long ago that people were speculating that Pace probably should have been fired w/Fox, or at the least not get the extension. Now he's likely executive of the year, amazing what a offseason makes.
Nagy got a far better team then Fox ever had, but it's still year 1 and what he has gotten then team to from the last 3 years is spectacular.

I wasn't sure wtf Pace was doing or thinking early on in his tenure here. Signing bums like Antrel Rolle, etc. I loved Mitch Trubisky pre-draft but I'll admit trading up for him left me perturbed. I was sure the kid would be there at 3, but if you read Adam Hoge's latest piece you quickly learn that #2 pick was for sale and multiple teams had Trubisky as QB1. Pace zeroed in on his target and got him, I have zero concern with that.

Now I look back at some of his other draft picks (Cohen, Shaheen) and wonder if he knew that he wasn't drafting for Fox and Loggains. This dude had a four or five year plan and executed it beautifully. Was it flawless? No... I hated the Kevin White pick and really hated the Mike Glennon signing (I still think that was a massive smoke screen, though).

All in all, his FA haul this past year coupled with trading for Mack, hiring Nagy AND retaining Fangio was elite GM work. Elite.

And God damnit is he handsome. I give it a 10, a fucking 10!

G08 wrote:I wasn't sure wtf Pace was doing or thinking early on in his tenure here. Signing bums like Antrel Rolle, etc. I loved Mitch Trubisky pre-draft but I'll admit trading up for him left me perturbed. I was sure the kid would be there at 3, but if you read Adam Hoge's latest piece you quickly learn that #2 pick was for sale and multiple teams had Trubisky as QB1. Pace zeroed in on his target and got him, I have zero concern with that.

Now I look back at some of his other draft picks (Cohen, Shaheen) and wonder if he knew that he wasn't drafting for Fox and Loggains. This dude had a four or five year plan and executed it beautifully. Was it flawless? No... I hated the Kevin White pick and really hated the Mike Glennon signing (I still think that was a massive smoke screen, though).

All in all, his FA haul this past year coupled with trading for Mack, hiring Nagy AND retaining Fangio was elite GM work. Elite.

And God damnit is he handsome. I give it a 10, a fucking 10!

Look. Fox knew what his role was. He was a stop gap HC that was there to steward a rebuild of the Chicago Bears. Anyone that tells you that Fox was supposed to take the Bears to the Super Bowl, knows nothing about rebuilding a franchise, and is CERTAINLY not a Chicago Cubs fan. It was going to be a process of getting rid of shitty players, putting new players on the field that were not part of the future of the Bears, and shedding cap. You had to get out from underneath a couple of contracts, and you had to build through the draft.
Pace knew it, but never really said it, because it would be insulting to the players he was signing, and would reflect poorly on him as a GM. It might of even prevented him from signing the players he eventually wanted, because he would have been seen as an asshole NFL Executive. Pace has executed this rebuild beautifully. I give him a pass on Kevin White, because it was his very first, 1st round pick.

Remember. Pace was considered the heir apparent to the Saints GM job, and was their golden boy executive that they had been grooming for years. He was VERY highly thought of within the organization, and throughout the league.

If there is ONE thing that Pace has shown to be a master at, is finding value in rounds 3-6. He is a MASTER at it. That bodes very, very well for the Bears future.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:

G08 wrote:I wasn't sure wtf Pace was doing or thinking early on in his tenure here. Signing bums like Antrel Rolle, etc. I loved Mitch Trubisky pre-draft but I'll admit trading up for him left me perturbed. I was sure the kid would be there at 3, but if you read Adam Hoge's latest piece you quickly learn that #2 pick was for sale and multiple teams had Trubisky as QB1. Pace zeroed in on his target and got him, I have zero concern with that.

Now I look back at some of his other draft picks (Cohen, Shaheen) and wonder if he knew that he wasn't drafting for Fox and Loggains. This dude had a four or five year plan and executed it beautifully. Was it flawless? No... I hated the Kevin White pick and really hated the Mike Glennon signing (I still think that was a massive smoke screen, though).

All in all, his FA haul this past year coupled with trading for Mack, hiring Nagy AND retaining Fangio was elite GM work. Elite.

And God damnit is he handsome. I give it a 10, a fucking 10!

Look. Fox knew what his role was. He was a stop gap HC that was there to steward a rebuild of the Chicago Bears. Anyone that tells you that Fox was supposed to take the Bears to the Super Bowl, knows nothing about rebuilding a franchise, and is CERTAINLY not a Chicago Cubs fan. It was going to be a process of getting rid of shitty players, putting new players on the field that were not part of the future of the Bears, and shedding cap. You had to get out from underneath a couple of contracts, and you had to build through the draft.
Pace knew it, but never really said it, because it would be insulting to the players he was signing, and would reflect poorly on him as a GM. It might of even prevented him from signing the players he eventually wanted, because he would have been seen as an asshole NFL Executive. Pace has executed this rebuild beautifully. I give him a pass on Kevin White, because it was his very first, 1st round pick.

Remember. Pace was considered the heir apparent to the Saints GM job, and was their golden boy executive that they had been grooming for years. He was VERY highly thought of within the organization, and throughout the league.

If there is ONE thing that Pace has shown to be a master at, is finding value in rounds 3-6. He is a MASTER at it. That bodes very, very well for the Bears future.

This is said perfectly. Couldn't agree more.

G08 wrote:I wasn't sure wtf Pace was doing or thinking early on in his tenure here. Signing bums like Antrel Rolle, etc. I loved Mitch Trubisky pre-draft but I'll admit trading up for him left me perturbed. I was sure the kid would be there at 3, but if you read Adam Hoge's latest piece you quickly learn that #2 pick was for sale and multiple teams had Trubisky as QB1. Pace zeroed in on his target and got him, I have zero concern with that.

Now I look back at some of his other draft picks (Cohen, Shaheen) and wonder if he knew that he wasn't drafting for Fox and Loggains. This dude had a four or five year plan and executed it beautifully. Was it flawless? No... I hated the Kevin White pick and really hated the Mike Glennon signing (I still think that was a massive smoke screen, though).

All in all, his FA haul this past year coupled with trading for Mack, hiring Nagy AND retaining Fangio was elite GM work. Elite.

And God damnit is he handsome. I give it a 10, a fucking 10!

I'm still surprised, I guess I shouldn't be, by the people that act like Trubisky was going to be there at the #2 spot. As you pointed out, Hoge dispells this theory, and even the night of and the day after reports were coming out of SF and other teams behind the Bears that teams were calling about trades and they all stopped after the Bears took Trubisky. I heard it on the radio today.

He might not have been the best qb in this draft, but that doesn't change that he was the highest rated qb in the draft by GM's looking for a qb; and he wasn't likely going to be there at 3 since SF was more then willing to trade out of the #2 spot, and no one was moving up for a S or DE.

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:

G08 wrote:I wasn't sure wtf Pace was doing or thinking early on in his tenure here. Signing bums like Antrel Rolle, etc. I loved Mitch Trubisky pre-draft but I'll admit trading up for him left me perturbed. I was sure the kid would be there at 3, but if you read Adam Hoge's latest piece you quickly learn that #2 pick was for sale and multiple teams had Trubisky as QB1. Pace zeroed in on his target and got him, I have zero concern with that.

Now I look back at some of his other draft picks (Cohen, Shaheen) and wonder if he knew that he wasn't drafting for Fox and Loggains. This dude had a four or five year plan and executed it beautifully. Was it flawless? No... I hated the Kevin White pick and really hated the Mike Glennon signing (I still think that was a massive smoke screen, though).

All in all, his FA haul this past year coupled with trading for Mack, hiring Nagy AND retaining Fangio was elite GM work. Elite.

And God damnit is he handsome. I give it a 10, a fucking 10!

Look. Fox knew what his role was. He was a stop gap HC that was there to steward a rebuild of the Chicago Bears. Anyone that tells you that Fox was supposed to take the Bears to the Super Bowl, knows nothing about rebuilding a franchise, and is CERTAINLY not a Chicago Cubs fan. It was going to be a process of getting rid of shitty players, putting new players on the field that were not part of the future of the Bears, and shedding cap. You had to get out from underneath a couple of contracts, and you had to build through the draft.
Pace knew it, but never really said it, because it would be insulting to the players he was signing, and would reflect poorly on him as a GM. It might of even prevented him from signing the players he eventually wanted, because he would have been seen as an asshole NFL Executive. Pace has executed this rebuild beautifully. I give him a pass on Kevin White, because it was his very first, 1st round pick.

Remember. Pace was considered the heir apparent to the Saints GM job, and was their golden boy executive that they had been grooming for years. He was VERY highly thought of within the organization, and throughout the league.

If there is ONE thing that Pace has shown to be a master at, is finding value in rounds 3-6. He is a MASTER at it. That bodes very, very well for the Bears future.

He needs to keep stacking quality draft after quality draft and I believe he'll be here a long, long time God-willing.

The armchair draft nerds like myself like to think we can identify talented players, and for the most part I think we can tell you who looks good (Trubisky, Mahomes) and who looks awful (Kaaya, Kizer). Really, these dudes make their money by finding talented players that are intelligent AND have outstanding character. I don't think that can be emphasized enough; I can't tell you how many times I've watched player interviews (bless you, YouTube) and they talk about how much they love this team, the players, and how tight-knit they are.

A lot of that comes from Nagy. Trey Burton was on Total Access the other night and he was asked why Club Dub came about. Evidently after the preseason win in Denver the team went back to the locker room and everyone got on their phones with little interaction. Nagy called everyone together and jumped their shit about enjoying success because it does not come easy in this league.