Has Nagy's Offense Been Figured Out...?

For all things Chicago Bears

Moderator: wab

User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

This worries the shit out of me because if you go back and re-watch this game you'll see that Pettine smacked Nagy and our offense around. Disguising coverages, mixing looks, bringing various pressures... We had no answers and abandoned the run on top of it.

Week 2 should be fucking telling. If we have another dog shit offensive showing similar to week 1, I'm going to be very concerned.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
G08
Hall of Famer
Posts: 20560
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
Location: Football Hell
Has thanked: 209 times
Been thanked: 758 times

9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS

User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

Watching the game again. Nagy made it VERY easy for someone to shut down his offense. He really wasn't disguising things very well, and what RPO's he was running, weren't working because the run game had not been established. I think that Nagy's offense works. But he needs to remember that it's all predicated on establishing a running game. To just go out and start calling pass plays, or getting into formations where it's blatantly obvious that you're going to run a pass play, you're going to get throttled.

I understand what Herron is saying. Guys around the league have a "schematic read" on Nagy. Guess what. Every defense around the league has a schematic read on what Bill Belichick is going to run every Sunday. It's not like the Patriots or the Saints change what they're going to run every season, coming up with a whole new playbook. What Nagy needs to do is learn how to OPEN his playbook. What plays lead to effective branches of schemes within the offense.

Whatever that is. He needs to figure it out, and better hope that Mitch can run it.
Image
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6806
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 384 times
Been thanked: 688 times

“Predictable” isn’t a word that was said to me, but that’s probably the easiest term to associate what I’ve been told. Alignment and personnel grouping are apparently giving some keys away though.
That's what I've been saying about Howard's subpar numbers last year. Sure, his ypc was down - because everyone knew he was only there to run.
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
Richie
MVP
Posts: 1912
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 17 times

G08 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 am This worries the shit out of me because if you go back and re-watch this game you'll see that Pettine smacked Nagy and our offense around. Disguising coverages, mixing looks, bringing various pressures... We had no answers and abandoned the run on top of it.

Week 2 should be fucking telling. If we have another dog shit offensive showing similar to week 1, I'm going to be very concerned.
Well, every offense will have a period where opposing staff's begin to get a read and adjust. We just have to see how Nagy adjusts back.

This was inevitable and it's not the end of the world.
User avatar
southdakbearfan
Head Coach
Posts: 4600
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
Location: South Dakota
Has thanked: 763 times
Been thanked: 328 times

Everyone's offense gets figured out. It's about execution. They have the talent if it is executed something will work most of the time.

It was figured out after 8 weeks last year and it still worked, plus it isn't like it is some revolutionary offense, it's reid's offense.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

The real problem with Nagy is he calls to many low efficiency plays in general and especially at critical points.

Execution is always the key. You can run a combo of power with play action and if they are executed you move the ball forward.

Greenbay showed both lack of execution and low efficiency play calling.

Then you have rythm. Nagy doesnt seem to call plays consecutively that compliment each other. It's more of a grab bag approach. The only point in wich any rythm was obtained was late in the fourth when they stopped running, and changing personnel.
User avatar
Boris13c
Hall of Famer
Posts: 15958
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
Location: The Bear Nebula
Has thanked: 38 times
Been thanked: 103 times

I wouldn't call Nagy's offense "predictable" ... inefficient and ineffective yes

and I don't think team's have figured out his offensive philosophy mainly because he doesn't seem to have one

teams have, and will continue to have, Trubisky figured out ... and as long as he continues to stare down his one receiver like a greenhorn rookie every time he drops back, success will continue to elude him
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
User avatar
Bearfanuk
Assistant Coach
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:48 am
Location: England
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

Someone with a better memory can help me out on this.

Outside of the horrificly bad defence that Mel tucker fielded wasn't this a major issue of Trestmans second and last season with the Bears.

Y1 was offence heaven, Jay did good numbers and we looked good. We were then spoon feed this bullsheet on how Trestman and Jay had sat down gone over the whole offence and had really moved it up a notch. Buffalo week 1 rolls round in year 2. We move the ball well for one series the opener. Score a TD and we literally all cum in our collective pants over this year and our offence...the rest...well you know the rest
Have a great day
User avatar
malk
Head Coach
Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Bearfanuk wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:55 pm Someone with a better memory can help me out on this.

Outside of the horrificly bad defence that Mel tucker fielded wasn't this a major issue of Trestmans second and last season with the Bears.

Y1 was offence heaven, Jay did good numbers and we looked good. We were then spoon feed this bullsheet on how Trestman and Jay had sat down gone over the whole offence and had really moved it up a notch. Buffalo week 1 rolls round in year 2. We move the ball well for one series the opener. Score a TD and we literally all cum in our collective pants over this year and our offence...the rest...well you know the rest
Even if that were comparable, and I'm not sure it is, I don't think it's particularly meaningful or fair on Trestman. If your defence is obviously that bad I can't imagine the pressure it must put on offence, from coaching on down. Now Trestman has had other issues in the league but who knows how he could have down with the Bears if Tucker, and much of the playing staff, weren't stinking out the place.
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

Noted Brain Genius Malk, Summer 2018.

(2020 update, wait, was I right...)
User avatar
Bearfanuk
Assistant Coach
Posts: 669
Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:48 am
Location: England
Been thanked: 1 time
Contact:

I was talking purley from a this offense didn't grow or change from 1 year to the next. To the point we had defensive DB'S calling the play on the field just by verbiage or some key tell.

He also had an allergic reaction to running the football. Nagy doesn't like running the football.

I think I'm wrong...and I hope I am...I'm just trying to add to the conversation with a nugget that was hidden away and has emerged from its hiding place..Again...as my very first post said. Someone with a much better memory then me can either say with more conviction
Last edited by Bearfanuk on Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Have a great day
User avatar
malk
Head Coach
Posts: 3625
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:10 am
Has thanked: 133 times
Been thanked: 204 times

Bearfanuk wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:04 pm I was talking purley from a this offense didn't grow or change from 1 year to the next. To the point we had defensive DB'S calling the play on the field just by verbiage or some key tell.

Again...as my very first post said. Someone with a much better memory then me can either say with more conviction
I didn't really buy that at the time. Admittedly Jeffery, Marshall, Bennett and Forte was a nice set of skill players but does Cutler through 66%, 28:18 and take us to the 23rd Offence that year if players know what plays we're going to run?
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

Noted Brain Genius Malk, Summer 2018.

(2020 update, wait, was I right...)
User avatar
Atkins&Rebel
Head Coach
Posts: 2177
Joined: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:56 pm
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 123 times

any teams offense will look "figured out" when an offense as a whole simply cannot execute.
O line missed blocks, Mitch only threw for 10 f'n yards in the first half and when he started delivering passes the WR's not named Robinson couldn't catch.
I will kill you if you cut me at the knees. You will drink with me when invited and stay til I say so. We only listen to American Music. I make men nervous with just my presence. I expect an apology if you hold. I throw linemen at QB's. Believe the Lore!
BR0D1E86
MVP
Posts: 1833
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2017 10:50 am

Neither here nor there, but I went to high school with Big Ant Herron. He tried to buy an Iowa Hawkeyes keychain from me the day he committed there. Great dude.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Same issues we all had last year. It's really fucking simple. Nagy gets to cute. Low efficiency plays.

It's like john shoop running a rb dive fake QB sneak up there gap.

Trubs is no better. Christian ponder blake Bortles mitch Trubisky.
User avatar
HisRoyalSweetness
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5901
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:20 pm
Has thanked: 61 times
Been thanked: 1716 times

Moriarty wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 1:10 pm
“Predictable” isn’t a word that was said to me, but that’s probably the easiest term to associate what I’ve been told. Alignment and personnel grouping are apparently giving some keys away though.
That's what I've been saying about Howard's subpar numbers last year. Sure, his ypc was down - because everyone knew he was only there to run.
Nagy also did the exact same thing against the Packers that he did most of last year when it came to Howard; he didn't let his best RB get into any kind of rhythm. How many times last year were we incredulous that Howard only had 5 carries or fewer in the first half? It seemed to happen a lot. Fast forward to this season and it was the exact same thing with Montgomery... and then he proceeded to get just one carry in the second half when it was a 4 point game.

Montgomery is supposed to be the receiving threat Howard wasn't. He's supposed to stop defenses keying on the run as a result. If this offense is going to go anywhere then he needs to be on the field the majority of the time. Davis should only be coming on for the occasional play when Montgomery needs a breather. This constant swapping out of backs doesn't allow either them or the offense to get into a rhythm.
User avatar
GSH
MVP
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:50 am
Location: Los Angeles

its easy to figure out when the rule of thumb is " well, they aint running it". By all accounts lining up in run protection and then shifting into zone when mitch cancelled the run was it all it took. Thats on a rookie QB and Nagy himself has said he called run plays that were checked out of at the snap.

Bottom line is if Mitch gets like a deer in the headlights and locks into his first pass read based on reading the D, Nagy needs to take more control of the call until Mitch is ready.
User avatar
Mikefive
Hall of Famer
Posts: 5189
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 9:33 pm
Location: Valparaiso, IN, USA
Has thanked: 340 times
Been thanked: 278 times

Atkins&Rebel wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:49 pm any teams offense will look "figured out" when an offense as a whole simply cannot execute.
O line missed blocks, Mitch only threw for 10 f'n yards in the first half and when he started delivering passes the WR's not named Robinson couldn't catch.
I'm with this. Our OL was not good. That didn't help the run game and Biscuit was under some pressure and sacked 5x. Shaheen and Miller were no-shows. That's not an excuse for Mitch, he was not so good either. Or Nagy who unfathomably gave up on the running game. I think that's Occam's razor here.
Mikefive's theory: The only time you KNOW that a sports team player, coach or management member is being 100% honest is when they're NOT reciting "the company line".

Go back to leather helmets, NFL.
User avatar
Funkster
MVP
Posts: 1851
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:35 pm

G08 wrote: Sat Sep 07, 2019 10:46 am This worries the shit out of me because if you go back and re-watch this game you'll see that Pettine smacked Nagy and our offense around. Disguising coverages, mixing looks, bringing various pressures... We had no answers and abandoned the run on top of it.

Week 2 should be fucking telling. If we have another dog shit offensive showing similar to week 1, I'm going to be very concerned.

I don’t feel Nagy’s been figured out. However, sometimes I feel he gets in his own head, and might have a problem adjusting from his game plan if it’s not working out. The pukes were in a dime package pretty much the majority of the game, Belichick would’ve fed his RB until the defense switched looks. Another thing I’ve noticed is Nagy doesn’t play build using the same personnel, he would rather use multiple personnel groupings with lots of motion, I feel this slows down momentum and rhythm.

With all that said, it was only the first game, lots of ball left. I think everyone prematurely expected a lot from this offense in only its second year.
“Protect this fucking house, go all out, leave that shit out on the field, let’s have some fun, makes some plays baby ” Mitch Trubisky #believethesleeve
User avatar
GSH
MVP
Posts: 1007
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:50 am
Location: Los Angeles

Thanks to some Japanese coffee grain whiskey, I just had the guts to re-watch the "highlights" from the packers game. Our O-line basically gave mitch about 1.5 seconds on a lot of those plays, couple that with over 100 yds in penalties on offense...woof.

Im all for keeping the starting QB and some stars out of the pre-season, but our line has to get some reps before week 1 next year, it was a knife through butter and Green Bay's D front seven are not all that.
User avatar
Bears Whiskey Nut
Hall of Famer
Posts: 11017
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
Location: Oak Park, IL
Has thanked: 77 times
Been thanked: 516 times

GSH wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 2:12 am Thanks to some Japanese coffee grain whiskey, I just had the guts to re-watch the "highlights" from the packers game. Our O-line basically gave mitch about 1.5 seconds on a lot of those plays, couple that with over 100 yds in penalties on offense...woof.

I'm all for keeping the starting QB and some stars out of the pre-season, but our line has to get some reps before week 1 next year, it was a knife through butter and Green Bay's D front seven are not all that.
This is a really good point. No other position group on the team has to work in sync as much as the O-Line. It's imperative that they get some work in together prior to running out for game one. My suggestion would be to wait until game four of the preseason, and run them out for the second half. Let them go against some NFL scrubs, and work on their communication and timing.
Image
User avatar
wab
Mod
Posts: 29805
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
Has thanked: 127 times
Been thanked: 1956 times

I don't know if I can weather all this "everything is awful" stuff 60 or so minutes into the season.
User avatar
docc
Head Coach
Posts: 3811
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:33 pm
Location: Outpost of Reality S.E. Arizona
Has thanked: 935 times
Been thanked: 168 times

^^^^^^^^^ This..move on..make corrections then we'll see what we got. Lost tough first game last year then 12/3 after..

I got no where else to go but wait and watch..lol
User avatar
The Marshall Plan
Hall of Famer
Posts: 8411
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:47 am
Location: Parts Unknown
Has thanked: 909 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

wab wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:56 am I don't know if I can weather all this "everything is awful" stuff 60 or so minutes into the season.
I suppose I should believe it, but I can't believe that we are one game into the season and the discussions have turned apocalyptic. What I'm inferring from a lot of posts here is that I should just tap out of rooting for the Bears the remainder of this season and start watching a shit ton of college football looking to see who the Raiders are going to take with the #1 overall pick they'll inherit from us as part of the Mack trade.

The Browns got their ass kicked today. Watch the Bears play them in the Super Bowl. I'll pass out laughing.

NFL offensive and defensive schemes aren't exactly on the level of the Enigma Machine in WW2 where you need a team of math geniuses to break the code. There are people whose job it is to figure this shit out.

If there was a scheme on either side of the ball that was uncrackable then everybody would run it. It all comes down to the ability to execute and the timing of the plays being called.

What exactly do the Bears have to do to make you believe that they are capable of doing something good?

1) The front office has been transformed. Ryan Pace has built a team and he's done it predominately through the draft. He's also proven that he's willing to take extreme measures to get "his guy". See Mack, Khalil.
2) Nagy was the toast of the town eight months ago. Now he's Ron Turner 2.0 with a DOS based offense apparently.
3) The defense is at a level not seen in at least a decade and either has already or will surpass the greatness of the defense in the Urlacher era.
4) We are still a young football team and whose future over the next five years looks even comparable to ours? The Chiefs and Browns?

I get it. As a fan of a team there's an emotional investment involved. The next four games are very winnable and if we go 4-1 into the bye none of this matters. Just like when I pissed and moaned about Roquan with the iPad. It's the last thing on my mind now with the way that guy plays and I even have a kick ass jersey of his now.
Image
User avatar
Moriarty
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6806
Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:22 pm
Has thanked: 384 times
Been thanked: 688 times

In fairness to the people panicking, all it takes is one very possible thing to be true (Mitch isn't a good QB) and the season is shot, and possibly the entire window.

In fairness to the people claiming overreaction, I do expect the team to look better by Week 3 or 4, after the offense gets the work it should have gotten in the preseason.
1999-2002: Mouth Off Sports Forum (RIP)
2002-2014: KFFL (RIP)
2014-2016: USAToday Fantasy Sports Forum (RIP)

Hello, my name is Moriarty. I have come to kill your website, prepare to die.
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

You really can't claim over reaction if these are the same complaints from 17 games ago. That sounds like consistency.
Richie
MVP
Posts: 1912
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2017 9:37 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 17 times

mmmc_35 wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:11 pm You really can't claim over reaction if these are the same complaints from 17 games ago. That sounds like consistency.
It's not the complaints that are an "overreaction".

It's the drastic length of the conclusions that Bears fans are jumping to based on these complaints.

Yes, we had these complaints last year. Guess what? We figured it out and went 12-4.

We all believed that we were SB contenders for an entire off-season. Stop acting like the sky has fallen and that EVERYTHING is f**ked. All because we played 60 minutes of poor offense in our first game of the season. Dear lord. lol

Your baseball team is among the favorites to win the World Series. Then, they have a rough first week and the season's over? The problems during that week are insurmountable? That's literally the equivalent of what we are talking about here.
User avatar
IE
Hall of Famer
Posts: 12500
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2008 8:46 am
Location: Plymouth, MI
Has thanked: 523 times
Been thanked: 700 times
Contact:

So the Oline was bad? This is one of the best Olines in the NFL. Their offensive coaches abused them Thursday. 50 called passes and 11 handoffs to RBs. The D had little question about what was coming ... and we wonder why it was a track meet to the QB? LOL. Want to improve the Oline? Run the damn ball.

Want to give the slow-developing QB more time to develop? Also strongly consider running the ball more often even if it goes against your nature. It occurred to me just now reading this thread why Nagy didn't like Howard. It was because he wanted to always have the option of not running the ball and has no issues with chucking it 45-50 times a game.

In the heat of the moment, Nagy seems willing to FORCE success onto 10 like a gambler who lost his ass continuing to play "one more bet, because this next one is a big winner". This is a problem for 10, because he isn't Mahomes or Brees or other truly great passers. Jesus Christ Tom Brady only averages about 35 passes a game in his career.

I'm hardly down on 10 at all. I'm not going to whine about what my team doesn't have, or about other team's luck. 10 is just not one of those guys that is going to light it up passing in his early years. He's perfectly adequate to win and make a run with this team. This Bear D is epic.

All my focus is on Nagy, and NOT his offense - but his play calling in the moment.
Here's something else that occurred to me: It doesn't take until the end of the game to see what is happening. I was screaming "run the damned ball" by the 2nd quarter. And of course the Pack recognized it easily and early. My concern is we KNOW other people in the organization saw how he was trending on Thursday and were unable to say anything to Nagy (or get through to him if they tried).

I get why nobody wants to correct "the man with the plan". So let's hope Nagy's self awareness is high enough to either control his play calling better in games OR perhaps hand the responsibility to someone who is more calm under fire.
2023 Chicago Bears... emerging from a long hibernation, and hungry!
User avatar
mmmc_35
Hall of Famer
Posts: 6113
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 12:25 am
Has thanked: 105 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Richie wrote: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:06 am
mmmc_35 wrote: Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:11 pm You really can't claim over reaction if these are the same complaints from 17 games ago. That sounds like consistency.
It's not the complaints that are an "overreaction".

It's the drastic length of the conclusions that Bears fans are jumping to based on these complaints.

Yes, we had these complaints last year. Guess what? We figured it out and went 12-4.

We all believed that we were SB contenders for an entire off-season. Stop acting like the sky has fallen and that EVERYTHING is f**ked. All because we played 60 minutes of poor offense in our first game of the season. Dear lord. lol

Your baseball team is among the favorites to win the World Series. Then, they have a rough first week and the season's over? The problems during that week are insurmountable? That's literally the equivalent of what we are talking about here.
If a good boxer consistently gets hit with a left hook because he drops his right hand you grow concerned. Sure he may win a bunch of fights, but gets when he gets dropped because of the flaw , concern is justified.

I never believed or heard super bowl aspirations from this team.
Post Reply