What Do You Think of Coach Nagy’s Use of Mizzell?

[VA_Mountain_Bear]

Tons of great responses on this thread & exactly why I see the Bears owning this division for the next 5+ years.

The Bears are already the most obviously complete & talented roster in the division.
They're also the youngest, and the which means that most of the players are still scratching the surface & ascending!

All of this discounting any future offseason moves that Pace will undoubtably make.

We've all had to witness such terrible franchise bungle for so many years, and it can be difficult to see or accept what is obviously before us.

^ This man all the way!

We look like the youngest and best team in the division and getting to own it for 5+ years (or at least CAN potentially) is awesome. Getting to see the Pack lose on the final years of Rodgers b/c were just better as a whole team is like a gift of karma. Seeing Detroit lose on the same with Stafford brings be joy. Watching the Vikes star D age out and them waste that $ on Cousins not winning the division gives me chills.

As to the OP and the use of Mizzell I am conflicted. I want Howard or Cohen in so when I see Mizzell I wince. However, Benny is older, and if Nagy wants to test out Mizzell to get a good feel of whether he wants him going forwards into next year or if a new 3rd string RB is needed is probably a good thing. To Mizzell's credit he has never had this much action in his career and seems to be getting slightly better each game.

However, I want us to put a waiver claim on Kareem Hunt, and damn the PR. IF Nagy and Pace think they can work with his issues, and even if he has to miss all of 2019, he is literally the perfect RB for Nagy's system. The debate about Howard could be over, and as much as I love Howard, he could move onto a team that wants to run a scheme better suited to him. Then ponder the idea of Defenses trying to deal with Cohen and Hunt on the field with all the other play-makers...and try not to get excited.

[wab]

Tons of great responses on this thread & exactly why I see the Bears owning this division for the next 5+ years.

The Bears are already the most obviously complete & talented roster in the division.
They're also the youngest, and the which means that most of the players are still scratching the surface & ascending!

All of this discounting any future offseason moves that Pace will undoubtably make.

We've all had to witness such terrible franchise bungle for so many years, and it can be difficult to see or accept what is obviously before us.

^ This man all the way!

We look like the youngest and best team in the division and getting to own it for 5+ years (or at least CAN potentially) is awesome. Getting to see the Pack lose on the final years of Rodgers b/c were just better as a whole team is like a gift of karma. Seeing Detroit lose on the same with Stafford brings be joy. Watching the Vikes star D age out and them waste that $ on Cousins not winning the division gives me chills.

As to the OP and the use of Mizzell I am conflicted. I want Howard or Cohen in so when I see Mizzell I wince. However, Benny is older, and if Nagy wants to test out Mizzell to get a good feel of whether he wants him going forwards into next year or if a new 3rd string RB is needed is probably a good thing. To Mizzell's credit he has never had this much action in his career and seems to be getting slightly better each game.

However, I want us to put a waiver claim on Kareem Hunt, and damn the PR. IF Nagy and Pace think they can work with his issues, and even if he has to miss all of 2019, he is literally the perfect RB for Nagy's system. The debate about Howard could be over, and as much as I love Howard, he could move onto a team that wants to run a scheme better suited to him. Then ponder the idea of Defenses trying to deal with Cohen and Hunt on the field with all the other play-makers...and try not to get excited.

If the Bears put in a waiver claim on Hunt while Howard, on of the best people in the NFL, languishes on the bench... I will lose respect for the Bears almost immediately.

[malk]

Tons of great responses on this thread & exactly why I see the Bears owning this division for the next 5+ years.

The Bears are already the most obviously complete & talented roster in the division.
They're also the youngest, and the which means that most of the players are still scratching the surface & ascending!

All of this discounting any future offseason moves that Pace will undoubtably make.

We've all had to witness such terrible franchise bungle for so many years, and it can be difficult to see or accept what is obviously before us.

^ This man all the way!

We look like the youngest and best team in the division and getting to own it for 5+ years (or at least CAN potentially) is awesome. Getting to see the Pack lose on the final years of Rodgers b/c were just better as a whole team is like a gift of karma. Seeing Detroit lose on the same with Stafford brings be joy. Watching the Vikes star D age out and them waste that $ on Cousins not winning the division gives me chills.

As to the OP and the use of Mizzell I am conflicted. I want Howard or Cohen in so when I see Mizzell I wince. However, Benny is older, and if Nagy wants to test out Mizzell to get a good feel of whether he wants him going forwards into next year or if a new 3rd string RB is needed is probably a good thing. To Mizzell's credit he has never had this much action in his career and seems to be getting slightly better each game.

However, I want us to put a waiver claim on Kareem Hunt, and damn the PR. IF Nagy and Pace think they can work with his issues, and even if he has to miss all of 2019, he is literally the perfect RB for Nagy's system. The debate about Howard could be over, and as much as I love Howard, he could move onto a team that wants to run a scheme better suited to him. Then ponder the idea of Defenses trying to deal with Cohen and Hunt on the field with all the other play-makers...and try not to get excited.

If the Bears put in a waiver claim on Hunt while Howard, on of the best people in the NFL, languishes on the bench... I will lose respect for the Bears almost immediately.

A thousand times this!

[G08]

A lot of executives are stating that Hunt will be playing in the league next year. I'd fucking love to have him here.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

A lot of executives are stating that Hunt will be playing in the league next year. I'd fucking love to have him here.

Let a shittier team deal with the media firestorm and fallout that he will create. It's not worth it to me to try and add that, to what is a REALLY good locker room right now. Besides, dealing with a player like that is not McCaskey's or Pace's MO, in my opinion.

[G08]

A lot of executives are stating that Hunt will be playing in the league next year. I'd fucking love to have him here.

Let a shittier team deal with the media firestorm and fallout that he will create. It's not worth it to me to try and add that, to what is a REALLY good locker room right now. Besides, dealing with a player like that is not McCaskey's or Pace's MO, in my opinion.

Truth... I don't see Ginny signing off on the deal.

[Pagan]

A lot of executives are stating that Hunt will be playing in the league next year. I'd fucking love to have him here.

Let a shittier team deal with the media firestorm and fallout that he will create. It's not worth it to me to try and add that, to what is a REALLY good locker room right now. Besides, dealing with a player like that is not McCaskey's or Pace's MO, in my opinion.

Truth... I don't see Ginny signing off on the deal.

COMPLETELY AGREE.

This is what makes & will CONTINUE to make this newly rebuilt Bears franchise so exciting = They have & will continue to have high moral character as a prerequisite to wagering the Bears uniform.

Right now you've got a young talented team on the rise that's overflowing with leaders/solid human beings that you don't have to cringe at the thought of your children idolizing.

The Chicago Bears do it the right way.

That being said, after seeing the video, I honestly don't know what the circumstances to this altercation are.. he's definitely in the wrong either way & NFL players usually (wisely) have security to handle such things.

After watching very short silenced clips.. I Def would say that there's nothing good about it, it's a terrible look for him... but let's not confuse him with Ray Rice based off of what we've seen & the lack of time to process.

[KhalilSackDaddy]

A lot of executives are stating that Hunt will be playing in the league next year. I'd fucking love to have him here.

It wont happen, no way, not after the Ray McDonald fiasco and not w/video evidence. But the best most coherent point I've read about the idea of trying to get him is this. If he's playing in the league next year, do you want him helping you, or a team like GB or another North division?

I personally don't want him, but it's a valid point. It's one thing if, like the 'skins w/Foster, only 1 team looks at him. But chances are multiple teams will look at him. I think I even saw that KC said they hope to have a shot to bring him back if he's done the right things.

[mohner1]

It wont happen, no way, not after the Ray McDonald fiasco and not w/video evidence. But the best most coherent point I've read about the idea of trying to get him is this. If he's playing in the league next year, do you want him helping you, or a team like GB or another North division?

If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?

[malk]

It wont happen, no way, not after the Ray McDonald fiasco and not w/video evidence. But the best most coherent point I've read about the idea of trying to get him is this. If he's playing in the league next year, do you want him helping you, or a team like GB or another North division?

If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?

And if you said jump in the river I would because, it would probably be a good idea.

[KhalilSackDaddy]

It wont happen, no way, not after the Ray McDonald fiasco and not w/video evidence. But the best most coherent point I've read about the idea of trying to get him is this. If he's playing in the league next year, do you want him helping you, or a team like GB or another North division?

If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?

Not even close to the same situation here. He likely WILL be playing and there won't be any harm to the team that signs him; other then lost money if he muffs up again.

There are limited top end resources in the NFL and there are multiple teams competing for those resources.

btw, I said it won't happen, so not sure why you even responded the way you did; if I say it wont it's the but there's a reason it should it's the very definition of not doing what everyone else is doing.

[Z Bear]

Pretty sure our owner will not let the team sign a woman beater... plain and simple.

[mohner1]

mohner1 wrote:
Quote:
It wont happen, no way, not after the Ray McDonald fiasco and not w/video evidence. But the best most coherent point I've read about the idea of trying to get him is this. If he's playing in the league next year, do you want him helping you, or a team like GB or another North division?


If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?


Not even close to the same situation here. He likely WILL be playing and there won't be any harm to the team that signs him; other then lost money if he muffs up again.

There are limited top end resources in the NFL and there are multiple teams competing for those resources.

btw, I said it won't happen, so not sure why you even responded the way you did; if I say it wont it's the but there's a reason it should it's the very definition of not doing what everyone else is doing.

My comment wasn't intended to be directed at you, I realize you're not making that argument. I was responding to the silliness of the argument you say has been proposed. I provided an equally silly response to make a point.

So he will play next year. I can't deny that won't happen, it probably will, but just because some teams will give him a shot means the bears should too? BS

[G08]

Regarding Mizzell... it tells me that Howard's a goner next year and we're going to be searching for a 3 down feature back.

[Z Bear]

Hopefully Mizzell is too because he sucks

[KhalilSackDaddy]

mohner1 wrote:
Quote:
It wont happen, no way, not after the Ray McDonald fiasco and not w/video evidence. But the best most coherent point I've read about the idea of trying to get him is this. If he's playing in the league next year, do you want him helping you, or a team like GB or another North division?


If all your friends jumped off a cliff, would you?


Not even close to the same situation here. He likely WILL be playing and there won't be any harm to the team that signs him; other then lost money if he muffs up again.

There are limited top end resources in the NFL and there are multiple teams competing for those resources.

btw, I said it won't happen, so not sure why you even responded the way you did; if I say it wont it's the but there's a reason it should it's the very definition of not doing what everyone else is doing.

My comment wasn't intended to be directed at you, I realize you're not making that argument. I was responding to the silliness of the argument you say has been proposed. I provided an equally silly response to make a point.

So he will play next year. I can't deny that won't happen, it probably will, but just because some teams will give him a shot means the bears should too? BS

Well that's the conundrum. If he ends up w/GB or Minny and for the next 2-3 years helps prevent the Bears from going to the playoffs was it worth taking the moral high ground when your job(talking about the teams) is to get to the playoffs?

He's a shit human, I don't want him on the Bears, but if the NFL says he can play; well he's also one of the best rb's in the nfl and can help your team get a shot at a sb. It would be stupid not to consider it, but I hope they don't. And i hope he doesn't end up on the NFCN.

[KhalilSackDaddy]

Regarding Mizzell... it tells me that Howard's a goner next year and we're going to be searching for a 3 down feature back.

I think Mizzell getting carries is more about Cunningham being hurt, Howard .

Bears are 8th in rushing attempts this year, it's not like they aren't running; and Howard is 8th in rushing attempts for all RB's. It's not like he isn't getting carries.

I think the main thing is that the Bears are running more plays, which allows for more passes and more rb's to get a shot at the ball also. It also might be b/c Howard hasn't been as effective most games so going w/another back might give Nagy a shot at the play he wants.

[Pagan]

Regarding Mizzell... it tells me that Howard's a goner next year and we're going to be searching for a 3 down feature back.

I think Mizzell getting carries is more about Cunningham being hurt, Howard .

Bears are 8th in rushing attempts this year, it's not like they aren't running; and Howard is 8th in rushing attempts for all RB's. It's not like he isn't getting carries.

I think the main thing is that the Bears are running more plays, which allows for more passes and more rb's to get a shot at the ball also. It also might be b/c Howard hasn't been as effective most games so going w/another back might give Nagy a shot at the play he wants.

Yep KSD,
some of us were making these same points at the start of this thread.
Howard didn't go from a franchise record setting RB to a terrible RB.

Like most problems, it's a combination problem.

Everyone seems to like 1 nice some issue/person to place blame on~ makes thinking easier.

It's a combo of new scheme/player fit & execution.

Also.. there's absolutely NO guarantee that Howard is gone next year, that's an assumption.

There's every possibility still that this line & the backs click with this scheme still.
More importantly... Howard still has a whole year left (after this one) on his cheap rookie deal.

=

Unlikely he's gone.

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

[G08]

Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

[mohner1]

Well that's the conundrum. If he ends up w/GB or Minny and for the next 2-3 years helps prevent the Bears from going to the playoffs was it worth taking the moral high ground when your job(talking about the teams) is to get to the playoffs?

If the team you cheer for HAS a moral highground, then yes. It's worth the risk. Let's face it, there are some teams that value high character guys, and some that don't make it a priority. You make decisions that would make YOUR team better, not decisions that are grounded in preventing your rivals success.

It would be stupid not to consider it, but I hope they don't. And i hope he doesn't end up on the NFCN.

seems oxymoronic. Basically you hope the Bears are stupid in their decision not to consider?

At any rate, seems like a moot point since we both agree that he should not/will not become a Bear, so all good there.

[Pagan]

Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

[G08]

Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

[The Marshall Plan]

Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

I just don't see Jordan Howard being a back that fits Nagy's system. I want to be 100% wrong about that because prior to this year I loved Jordan Howard. This could easily be a transition year for him and the o-line to learn this system. I don't think Jordan Howard is a guy who can run a 10-15 yard route and catch the ball. This system doesn't do zone blocking and Howard is a zone blocking runner.

The reason to trade Howard is because we NEED that dimension of the offense to wake up. Can you imagine how impossible we'd be to defend with an above average running game and a back that can catch? My preference still is that Howard evolves his game to match this offense because the guy can definitely play.

[MoFugger]

Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

We are very clearly not running the Andy Reid offense.
I don't see how we're going anywhere before next year's trade deadline.
I'm also not going to have them on my fantasy team. Because I could honestly see how this the number 3 back next year.

[mohner1]

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

Howard only has 19 because Tarik is there. he's got 59 catches. Were the charles/davis and ware/west pretty evenly split?

My question is, if you get your 'perfect fit' running back for Nagy's system, what happens to Tarik's role?

[G08]

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

Howard only has 19 because Tarik is there. he's got 59 catches. Were the charles/davis and ware/west pretty evenly split?

My question is, if you get your 'perfect fit' running back for Nagy's system, what happens to Tarik's role?

It get skewed a bit due to missed games/injuries. The long and short is that the vast majority of the time in this offense your RB is a threat in the passing game/a versatile threat.

[KOP_Snake]

The Olinemen are who should be on the hot seat, keep/don't keep discussion, not Howard. They're the ones who cant run block worth a shit.

[Mikefive]

The Olinemen are who should be on the hot seat, keep/don't keep discussion, not Howard. They're the ones who cant run block worth a shit.

Add to this that Howard is the superior pass protector among the RBs who are playing, so pretty easy to see why Howard wouldn't be going out for many passes.

[UOK]

Via Jonathan Wood:

Been a few weeks since I did anything like this, so here's a quick look at a few RB-related things I've been complaining about with the Bears this year (thread)

Howard and Cohen have played 73 snaps together, just over 8% of offensive snaps. In those snaps, Bears averaging 7.2 yards per dropback and 5.0 yards per run.

Better than season averages of 6.9 and 4.2.

More of this, please.

on the flip side, Mizzell has now played 41 snaps. In those snaps, Bears averaging 5.8 yards per dropback and 3.8 yards per run, worse than season averages of 6.9 and 4.2.

Less Mizzell, please. Now that he's been replaced on kickoffs, he serves no purpose on this roster.

And it gets even worse if you look at lineups that aren't buoyed by Howard and/or Cohen, who Mizzell has shared the field with for 27 of his 41 snaps. In the 14 where he's the only RB, they pretty much always pass (13/14 plays) and average only 5.0 yards per dropback.

The Bears, for some reason, keep trying to make Taquan Mizzell a thing. He's not going to be a thing.