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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Well that's the conundrum. If he ends up w/GB or Minny and for the next 2-3 years helps prevent the Bears from going to the playoffs was it worth taking the moral high ground when your job(talking about the teams) is to get to the playoffs?


If the team you cheer for HAS a moral highground, then yes. It's worth the risk. Let's face it, there are some teams that value high character guys, and some that don't make it a priority. You make decisions that would make YOUR team better, not decisions that are grounded in preventing your rivals success.

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It would be stupid not to consider it, but I hope they don't. And i hope he doesn't end up on the NFCN.


seems oxymoronic. Basically you hope the Bears are stupid in their decision not to consider?

At any rate, seems like a moot point since we both agree that he should not/will not become a Bear, so all good there.
:toast:

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:11 pm 
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G08 wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.


That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.


I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Pagan wrote:
G08 wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.


That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.


I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)


If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:50 pm 
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Pagan wrote:
G08 wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.


That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.


I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)


I just don't see Jordan Howard being a back that fits Nagy's system. I want to be 100% wrong about that because prior to this year I loved Jordan Howard. This could easily be a transition year for him and the o-line to learn this system. I don't think Jordan Howard is a guy who can run a 10-15 yard route and catch the ball. This system doesn't do zone blocking and Howard is a zone blocking runner.

The reason to trade Howard is because we NEED that dimension of the offense to wake up. Can you imagine how impossible we'd be to defend with an above average running game and a back that can catch? My preference still is that Howard evolves his game to match this offense because the guy can definitely play.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:29 pm 
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G08 wrote:
Pagan wrote:
G08 wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.


That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.


I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)


If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

We are very clearly not running the Andy Reid offense.
I don't see how we're going anywhere before next year's trade deadline.
I'm also not going to have them on my fantasy team. Because I could honestly see how this the number 3 back next year.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:42 am 
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Quote:
If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19


Howard only has 19 because Tarik is there. he's got 59 catches. Were the charles/davis and ware/west pretty evenly split?

My question is, if you get your 'perfect fit' running back for Nagy's system, what happens to Tarik's role?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:53 pm 
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mohner1 wrote:
Quote:
If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19


Howard only has 19 because Tarik is there. he's got 59 catches. Were the charles/davis and ware/west pretty evenly split?

My question is, if you get your 'perfect fit' running back for Nagy's system, what happens to Tarik's role?


It get skewed a bit due to missed games/injuries. The long and short is that the vast majority of the time in this offense your RB is a threat in the passing game/a versatile threat.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:33 pm 
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The Olinemen are who should be on the hot seat, keep/don't keep discussion, not Howard. They're the ones who cant run block worth a shit.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:42 am 
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KOP_Snake wrote:
The Olinemen are who should be on the hot seat, keep/don't keep discussion, not Howard. They're the ones who cant run block worth a shit.
Add to this that Howard is the superior pass protector among the RBs who are playing, so pretty easy to see why Howard wouldn't be going out for many passes.

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