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Well that's the conundrum. If he ends up w/GB or Minny and for the next 2-3 years helps prevent the Bears from going to the playoffs was it worth taking the moral high ground when your job(talking about the teams) is to get to the playoffs?

If the team you cheer for HAS a moral highground, then yes. It's worth the risk. Let's face it, there are some teams that value high character guys, and some that don't make it a priority. You make decisions that would make YOUR team better, not decisions that are grounded in preventing your rivals success.

It would be stupid not to consider it, but I hope they don't. And i hope he doesn't end up on the NFCN.

seems oxymoronic. Basically you hope the Bears are stupid in their decision not to consider?

At any rate, seems like a moot point since we both agree that he should not/will not become a Bear, so all good there.

G08 wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

Pagan wrote:

G08 wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

Pagan wrote:

G08 wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

I just don't see Jordan Howard being a back that fits Nagy's system. I want to be 100% wrong about that because prior to this year I loved Jordan Howard. This could easily be a transition year for him and the o-line to learn this system. I don't think Jordan Howard is a guy who can run a 10-15 yard route and catch the ball. This system doesn't do zone blocking and Howard is a zone blocking runner.

The reason to trade Howard is because we NEED that dimension of the offense to wake up. Can you imagine how impossible we'd be to defend with an above average running game and a back that can catch? My preference still is that Howard evolves his game to match this offense because the guy can definitely play.

G08 wrote:

Pagan wrote:

G08 wrote:

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:Look. You don't get rid of a RB, under a rookie contract, with that much talent. This offseason will be ALL ABOUT learning how to incorporate Howard into Nagy's offense. A lot of this year is Nagy evaluating what he has, and how the pieces work together.

That's the thing though, man. Howard's skill-set limits what Nagy can do from a play-design standpoint. This offense needs a back who is an equal threat in the run and pass game so you don't tip your hand when he's in the backfield. Howard isn't that guy, as much as I love the guy.

I'm not totally sure though G08.
Howard CAN still be an extremely productive back in Nagys system I believe= Otherwise I think that the Bears would've brought in more RB Competition before & after the trade deadline.
Also... there's still a bit of time left for this Oline & Howard to get this scheme right & click.

I also doubt that Nagy will change his offense philosophy drastically to fit Howard. Like.. something closer to what the offense used to be.

That being said... either way, the there's zero motivation to jettison a sure handed, hard running back.

The only thing Howard's game is missing is explosiveness/top speed.
On a rookie contract, I see him as a roster lock next season (barring unusual circumstances)

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

We are very clearly not running the Andy Reid offense.
I don't see how we're going anywhere before next year's trade deadline.
I'm also not going to have them on my fantasy team. Because I could honestly see how this the number 3 back next year.

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

Howard only has 19 because Tarik is there. he's got 59 catches. Were the charles/davis and ware/west pretty evenly split?

My question is, if you get your 'perfect fit' running back for Nagy's system, what happens to Tarik's role?

mohner1 wrote:

If that was the case I'd see him targeted a lot more in the passing game. Nagy grew up around Andy Reid, right? His RBs are always highly targeted in the passing game in various seasons:

Charles: 104
Charles/Davis: 84
Ware/West: 76
Hunt: 63

Howard: 19

Howard only has 19 because Tarik is there. he's got 59 catches. Were the charles/davis and ware/west pretty evenly split?

My question is, if you get your 'perfect fit' running back for Nagy's system, what happens to Tarik's role?

It get skewed a bit due to missed games/injuries. The long and short is that the vast majority of the time in this offense your RB is a threat in the passing game/a versatile threat.

The Olinemen are who should be on the hot seat, keep/don't keep discussion, not Howard. They're the ones who cant run block worth a shit.

KOP_Snake wrote:The Olinemen are who should be on the hot seat, keep/don't keep discussion, not Howard. They're the ones who cant run block worth a shit.

Add to this that Howard is the superior pass protector among the RBs who are playing, so pretty easy to see why Howard wouldn't be going out for many passes.

Via Jonathan Wood:

Been a few weeks since I did anything like this, so here's a quick look at a few RB-related things I've been complaining about with the Bears this year (thread)

Howard and Cohen have played 73 snaps together, just over 8% of offensive snaps. In those snaps, Bears averaging 7.2 yards per dropback and 5.0 yards per run.

Better than season averages of 6.9 and 4.2.

More of this, please.

on the flip side, Mizzell has now played 41 snaps. In those snaps, Bears averaging 5.8 yards per dropback and 3.8 yards per run, worse than season averages of 6.9 and 4.2.

Less Mizzell, please. Now that he's been replaced on kickoffs, he serves no purpose on this roster.

And it gets even worse if you look at lineups that aren't buoyed by Howard and/or Cohen, who Mizzell has shared the field with for 27 of his 41 snaps. In the 14 where he's the only RB, they pretty much always pass (13/14 plays) and average only 5.0 yards per dropback.

The Bears, for some reason, keep trying to make Taquan Mizzell a thing. He's not going to be a thing.

I was livid when they gave it to him on 3rd and 3 at midfield. It might have been Trubisky's decision at the line, but to even have Mizell on the field in that situation, made me feel Nagy wasn't doing his best to win this game. And then it got compounded by the failed fake punt... I was having Bears PTSD. All is well now though, apart from Jackson.

He got 1 carry, no real loss there. I do agree that's not the playcall on 3rd and short imo.
Either run up the gut w/Howard or playaction.

He got 1 carry, no real loss there. I do agree that's not the playcall on 3rd and short imo.
Either run up the gut w/Howard or playaction.

I would literally be OK with about ANYTHING besides Mizzel in that instance. wanna chuck it deep? fine. screen? fine. Howard up the gut? fine. Biscuit designed QB draw? fine. really about anything sans statue of liberty or fumbelrooskie.