So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

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So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:24 pm

First, what's wrong?

I've heard it suggested that Howard just doesn't have the same burst that he had before. Considering his age and that we haven't seen him limping around, I don't buy that for a second. Howard is what he is and he's no different.

So what IS different? Well... we have a new offensive staff from the head coach down and a new offense. We know that Nagy, the chief architect has had very productive run games in the past. Drilling down into details, we find that the Bears blocking scheme is a different power blocking style than the zone blocking the Bears did in the Fox era, when Howard was a bell cow back who went to one Pro Bowl and rushed for 1100+ both years. If my math is correct, his 3.3 yards per carry (compared to 5.2 and 4.1 the last 2 years) has him on pace for under 800 yards by season's end.

Now we're getting somewhere. That the blocking scheme could be a significant contributor to the problem is supported by this study of Howard in 2016. Part of his actual description includes this sentence... "Howard is a zone runner through and through".

So what can be done to rectify this problem? It seems pretty unlikely and counterproductive to completely switch blocking schemes mid-season, even if Harry Hiestand knew how to coach a zone style. Can zone concepts be blended into the scheme to play to Howard's strengths? How do you fix this, and our running game?

P.S. It sure looks to me like the big loser in the Matt Nagy takeover was/is Jordan Howard by a very large margin. If I'm him, I'm begging the team to trade me to another team who can utilize my skills the way I was used under John Fox. The amount of dough he may lose by the time he hits FA could be staggering.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:54 pm

Mikefive wrote:First, what's wrong?

I've heard it suggested that Howard just doesn't have the same burst that he had before. Considering his age and that we haven't seen him limping around, I don't buy that for a second. Howard is what he is and he's no different.

So what IS different? Well... we have a new offensive staff from the head coach down and a new offense. We know that Nagy, the chief architect has had very productive run games in the past. Drilling down into details, we find that the Bears blocking scheme is a different power blocking style than the zone blocking the Bears did in the Fox era, when Howard was a bell cow back who went to one Pro Bowl and rushed for 1100+ both years. If my math is correct, his 3.3 yards per carry (compared to 5.2 and 4.1 the last 2 years) has him on pace for under 800 yards by season's end.

Now we're getting somewhere. That the blocking scheme could be a significant contributor to the problem is supported by this study of Howard in 2016. Part of his actual description includes this sentence... "Howard is a zone runner through and through".

So what can be done to rectify this problem? It seems pretty unlikely and counterproductive to completely switch blocking schemes mid-season, even if Harry Hiestand knew how to coach a zone style. Can zone concepts be blended into the scheme to play to Howard's strengths? How do you fix this, and our running game?

P.S. It sure looks to me like the big loser in the Matt Nagy takeover was/is Jordan Howard by a very large margin. If I'm him, I'm begging the team to trade me to another team who can utilize my skills the way I was used under John Fox. The amount of dough he may lose by the time he hits FA could be staggering.
When the Bears switched to a zone scheme during the Vikings game, Howard was eating up 5-6 yards a carry. I don't think he's going to lose a lot of money. I think that if he does get traded at year-end, he will go to a team that will be willing to use his particular strengths.

If Nagy actually wants to fix it for Howard, he just needs to switch to a zone blocking scheme on run plays. The problem becomes, I don't think (and somebody correct me on this) that you can run a heavy RPO game with zone blocking. So Nagy would have to change his offense to fit Howard, and I don't see that happening.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:07 pm

Nothing of what I'm about to type is an attempt to shit on Jordan Howard. Far from it. This guy has proven that he can play at a high level in this league.

The offense is putting up roughly 30 points per game playing effectively 2.5 quarters of football before the overly conservative run out the clock playcalling kicks in. This is happening with kind of an average running game.

Bears Whiskey Nut has mentioned that Howard is a zone runner, but that's not our scheme. I'm certain that's part of it. But does that fit in with what Nagy wants? IDK.

This offense does not need an $8M+ running back to be effective. We need a slightly above average or even an average running game to convert 3rd and short. I would rather achieve that through improving the offensive line; especially the right side where Long is always injured and Massie doesn't impress.

Howard has a cap hit of $782k next year. Even if he doesn't improve at all this year it is a no brainer to keep him. Also consider that we don't have many draft picks in 2019 so drafting a replacement will not be easy. An FA signing will cost us multiples more than what it would take to just keep Howard at the $782k.

I would rather keep Howard through 2019 and evaluate what a tagging / resigning would cost. If we can rebuild the right side of the line through the draft and improve the quality that way we can use the Long or Massie money to keep Howard provided his performance improves. The only way I trade him prior to the 2019 season is for a second round pick which would just wind up being his replacement.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/cap/2019/
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:56 pm

Olin Kruetz said it best on one of the post game shows, the Bears don't want to run. They are putting up points and winning doing what they are doing. He said right now they do not have the incentive or attitude of a team that wants to run.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:19 pm

The Marshall Plan wrote:Nothing of what I'm about to type is an attempt to shit on Jordan Howard. Far from it. This guy has proven that he can play at a high level in this league.

The offense is putting up roughly 30 points per game playing effectively 2.5 quarters of football before the overly conservative run out the clock playcalling kicks in. This is happening with kind of an average running game.

Bears Whiskey Nut has mentioned that Howard is a zone runner, but that's not our scheme. I'm certain that's part of it. But does that fit in with what Nagy wants? IDK.

This offense does not need an $8M+ running back to be effective. We need a slightly above average or even an average running game to convert 3rd and short. I would rather achieve that through improving the offensive line; especially the right side where Long is always injured and Massie doesn't impress.

Howard has a cap hit of $782k next year. Even if he doesn't improve at all this year it is a no brainer to keep him. Also consider that we don't have many draft picks in 2019 so drafting a replacement will not be easy. An FA signing will cost us multiples more than what it would take to just keep Howard at the $782k.

I would rather keep Howard through 2019 and evaluate what a tagging / resigning would cost. If we can rebuild the right side of the line through the draft and improve the quality that way we can use the Long or Massie money to keep Howard provided his performance improves. The only way I trade him prior to the 2019 season is for a second round pick which would just wind up being his replacement.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/cap/2019/
I don't see why it's a no brainer to keep a guy who can only gets 3.3 per rush as your primary RB. It's a no brainer to do something different and improve. This is an 11-5 kinda team who is now in their Super Bowl window, certainly starting next year. If things don't dramatically improve, I would expect Pace to trade Howard in the offseason as a win-win-win and get a RB who can be more successful in our scheme. And I LOVE Jordan Howard.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:21 pm

I did tweet Brett Kollmann to ask him to do a "what's wrong with Jordan Howard" film review.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:42 pm

Mikefive wrote:
The Marshall Plan wrote:Nothing of what I'm about to type is an attempt to shit on Jordan Howard. Far from it. This guy has proven that he can play at a high level in this league.

The offense is putting up roughly 30 points per game playing effectively 2.5 quarters of football before the overly conservative run out the clock playcalling kicks in. This is happening with kind of an average running game.

Bears Whiskey Nut has mentioned that Howard is a zone runner, but that's not our scheme. I'm certain that's part of it. But does that fit in with what Nagy wants? IDK.

This offense does not need an $8M+ running back to be effective. We need a slightly above average or even an average running game to convert 3rd and short. I would rather achieve that through improving the offensive line; especially the right side where Long is always injured and Massie doesn't impress.

Howard has a cap hit of $782k next year. Even if he doesn't improve at all this year it is a no brainer to keep him. Also consider that we don't have many draft picks in 2019 so drafting a replacement will not be easy. An FA signing will cost us multiples more than what it would take to just keep Howard at the $782k.

I would rather keep Howard through 2019 and evaluate what a tagging / resigning would cost. If we can rebuild the right side of the line through the draft and improve the quality that way we can use the Long or Massie money to keep Howard provided his performance improves. The only way I trade him prior to the 2019 season is for a second round pick which would just wind up being his replacement.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/cap/2019/
I don't see why it's a no brainer to keep a guy who can only gets 3.3 per rush as your primary RB. It's a no brainer to do something different and improve. This is an 11-5 kinda team who is now in their Super Bowl window, certainly starting next year. If things don't dramatically improve, I would expect Pace to trade Howard in the offseason as a win-win-win and get a RB who can be more successful in our scheme. And I LOVE Jordan Howard.
Because of the cost. His cap hit is virtually nothing. Find somebody without a bigger cap hit that has the same performance potential then I'll change my mind. We know from previous years that Howard can play. Its just the scheme. Give him another year in Nagy's scheme and maybe this gets better. His performance could also be a function of the offensive line. I still think the better solution is improving the offense line and finding a solution elsewhere at RB to prevent tying up cap money at a position with declining importance.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:12 pm

I don't think it's just Howard. The loss of long has hurt some, kush is not a dominant road grader, weintzman is a backup and Daniels is just learning but has potential.

They are all fairly good pass blocking but either due to scheme or players not opening a lot of holes in the run game they are struggling in that aspect.

But, I don't think Howard is a great fit in this type of offense and you can get what they are getting out of him out of a UDFA, so if they could trade for a 3rd or 4th I think they would in a heartbeat to get someone who fits a little more.

Howard has caught the ball ok, but he is not a natural/fluid receiver.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:15 pm

Otis Day wrote:Olin Kruetz said it best on one of the post game shows, the Bears don't want to run. They are putting up points and winning doing what they are doing. He said right now they do not have the incentive or attitude of a team that wants to run.
Yeah. In the WCO/Nagy offense. The screens passes are the running game. It's all about finding the mismatch in the defense, and exploiting the hell out of it. At least until the defense adjusts, and then you find the next mismatch.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:20 pm

The Marshall Plan wrote:
Mikefive wrote:
The Marshall Plan wrote:Nothing of what I'm about to type is an attempt to shit on Jordan Howard. Far from it. This guy has proven that he can play at a high level in this league.

The offense is putting up roughly 30 points per game playing effectively 2.5 quarters of football before the overly conservative run out the clock playcalling kicks in. This is happening with kind of an average running game.

Bears Whiskey Nut has mentioned that Howard is a zone runner, but that's not our scheme. I'm certain that's part of it. But does that fit in with what Nagy wants? IDK.

This offense does not need an $8M+ running back to be effective. We need a slightly above average or even an average running game to convert 3rd and short. I would rather achieve that through improving the offensive line; especially the right side where Long is always injured and Massie doesn't impress.

Howard has a cap hit of $782k next year. Even if he doesn't improve at all this year it is a no brainer to keep him. Also consider that we don't have many draft picks in 2019 so drafting a replacement will not be easy. An FA signing will cost us multiples more than what it would take to just keep Howard at the $782k.

I would rather keep Howard through 2019 and evaluate what a tagging / resigning would cost. If we can rebuild the right side of the line through the draft and improve the quality that way we can use the Long or Massie money to keep Howard provided his performance improves. The only way I trade him prior to the 2019 season is for a second round pick which would just wind up being his replacement.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/cap/2019/
I don't see why it's a no brainer to keep a guy who can only gets 3.3 per rush as your primary RB. It's a no brainer to do something different and improve. This is an 11-5 kinda team who is now in their Super Bowl window, certainly starting next year. If things don't dramatically improve, I would expect Pace to trade Howard in the offseason as a win-win-win and get a RB who can be more successful in our scheme. And I LOVE Jordan Howard.
Because of the cost. His cap hit is virtually nothing. Find somebody without a bigger cap hit that has the same performance potential then I'll change my mind. We know from previous years that Howard can play. Its just the scheme. Give him another year in Nagy's scheme and maybe this gets better. His performance could also be a function of the offensive line. I still think the better solution is improving the offense line and finding a solution elsewhere at RB to prevent tying up cap money at a position with declining importance.
To your point, it will be interesting to see what happens at the RT position this offseason as Massie is a FA. I don't see him as problematic as some do. I could see us re-signing him at a raise. But if you want to improve upon him, that's going to cost even more. Of course, there's always the promote Rashaad Coward experiment, which would certainly buy you significant cap space, if they want to take that risk.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:25 am

Mikefive wrote:
The Marshall Plan wrote:
Mikefive wrote:
The Marshall Plan wrote:Nothing of what I'm about to type is an attempt to shit on Jordan Howard. Far from it. This guy has proven that he can play at a high level in this league.

The offense is putting up roughly 30 points per game playing effectively 2.5 quarters of football before the overly conservative run out the clock playcalling kicks in. This is happening with kind of an average running game.

Bears Whiskey Nut has mentioned that Howard is a zone runner, but that's not our scheme. I'm certain that's part of it. But does that fit in with what Nagy wants? IDK.

This offense does not need an $8M+ running back to be effective. We need a slightly above average or even an average running game to convert 3rd and short. I would rather achieve that through improving the offensive line; especially the right side where Long is always injured and Massie doesn't impress.

Howard has a cap hit of $782k next year. Even if he doesn't improve at all this year it is a no brainer to keep him. Also consider that we don't have many draft picks in 2019 so drafting a replacement will not be easy. An FA signing will cost us multiples more than what it would take to just keep Howard at the $782k.

I would rather keep Howard through 2019 and evaluate what a tagging / resigning would cost. If we can rebuild the right side of the line through the draft and improve the quality that way we can use the Long or Massie money to keep Howard provided his performance improves. The only way I trade him prior to the 2019 season is for a second round pick which would just wind up being his replacement.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/cap/2019/
I don't see why it's a no brainer to keep a guy who can only gets 3.3 per rush as your primary RB. It's a no brainer to do something different and improve. This is an 11-5 kinda team who is now in their Super Bowl window, certainly starting next year. If things don't dramatically improve, I would expect Pace to trade Howard in the offseason as a win-win-win and get a RB who can be more successful in our scheme. And I LOVE Jordan Howard.
Because of the cost. His cap hit is virtually nothing. Find somebody without a bigger cap hit that has the same performance potential then I'll change my mind. We know from previous years that Howard can play. Its just the scheme. Give him another year in Nagy's scheme and maybe this gets better. His performance could also be a function of the offensive line. I still think the better solution is improving the offense line and finding a solution elsewhere at RB to prevent tying up cap money at a position with declining importance.
To your point, it will be interesting to see what happens at the RT position this offseason as Massie is a FA. I don't see him as problematic as some do. I could see us re-signing him at a raise. But if you want to improve upon him, that's going to cost even more. Of course, there's always the promote Rashaad Coward experiment, which would certainly buy you significant cap space, if they want to take that risk.
To free up cap space to keep guys like Jackson and maybe Howard, we should try and solve Long's guard position in the draft. Massie could be one of those situations where he hits FA and he gets a crazy offer and has to take it. We could use his salary spot to sign a replacement or promote Coward.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:53 am

About the only good thing with Long's misfortune is that we've been ok without him so there's a potential cap saving.

Similar could be said for Howard, I love me some Howard but being able to move on from him will be massive. I'm pretty confident that the combination of Pace's great drafting and Nagy's system working with unconventional (read not needing a high pick) backs will work in our favour. We should also be looking at free agents who haven't had an opportunity that look like they could fit the bill. They're out there.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:06 am

You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:51 pm

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.

Basic breakdown. Used less, quirky playcalling that doesn't always help a the run game, and most importantly, no stacked boxes.

He points out that Howard's biggest plays last year came from stacked boxes that meant he only had to find his hole and then beat 1 Safety down field for a big play. Said if you take away those big plays his average last year was 3.5 ypc. This year he rarely sees a stacked box and it's not allowing him to get that 1x1 w/a safety. He points out he's not really fast or ellusive so he cannot get to that 2nd level.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:26 pm

KhalilSackDaddy wrote: Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.

Basic breakdown. Used less, quirky playcalling that doesn't always help a the run game, and most importantly, no stacked boxes.

He points out that Howard's biggest plays last year came from stacked boxes that meant he only had to find his hole and then beat 1 Safety down field for a big play. Said if you take away those big plays his average last year was 3.5 ypc. This year he rarely sees a stacked box and it's not allowing him to get that 1x1 w/a safety. He points out he's not really fast or ellusive so he cannot get to that 2nd level.
I'm not quite buying that explanation. Sure, fewer stacked boxes mean less 20+ yard runs. OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:28 pm

Mikefive wrote:
KhalilSackDaddy wrote: Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.
OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.
not necessarily. If ILB's are able to get to where he is attacking as quick as he is then he's not going to get those 5-10 yard bursts. Problem is he's not fast or elusive enough to take on a LB that is similar in size to him.

Now he could also be nursing an injury Matt Forte played through a hamstring his entire 2nd year and it definitely caused him to have a down year, and it wasn't revealed until after the season. But I think Howard limitations as a RB are starting to come to light and teams are taking advantage of it.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:42 pm

KhalilSackDaddy wrote:
Mikefive wrote:
KhalilSackDaddy wrote: Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.
OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.
not necessarily. If ILB's are able to get to where he is attacking as quick as he is then he's not going to get those 5-10 yard bursts. Problem is he's not fast or elusive enough to take on a LB that is similar in size to him.

Now he could also be nursing an injury Matt Forte played through a hamstring his entire 2nd year and it definitely caused him to have a down year, and it wasn't revealed until after the season. But I think Howard limitations as a RB are starting to come to light and teams are taking advantage of it.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Welcome to the board though! :-)
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:56 pm

Mikefive wrote:
KhalilSackDaddy wrote:
Mikefive wrote:
KhalilSackDaddy wrote: Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.
OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.
not necessarily. If ILB's are able to get to where he is attacking as quick as he is then he's not going to get those 5-10 yard bursts. Problem is he's not fast or elusive enough to take on a LB that is similar in size to him.

Now he could also be nursing an injury Matt Forte played through a hamstring his entire 2nd year and it definitely caused him to have a down year, and it wasn't revealed until after the season. But I think Howard limitations as a RB are starting to come to light and teams are taking advantage of it.
We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Welcome to the board though! :-)
No problem, sadly I don't think we'll get to disagree to long, He's gone from 18 apg, to 16 as of that youtube video, he's now down to 14. I don't think he's longed for the Bears after this season. Worse yet b/c it's been such a down year I'm not sure they can get much if anything for him.

Thanks.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:43 pm

wab wrote:You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.
Nice one. He was a beast in college.

Imagine a RB in this offense who can run a 10 to 15 yard route with glue hands. Damn.

These kinds of videos are biased, but they're fun to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff2Nah3rfyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b28giB9m7Cs
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:23 pm

Forgive my ignorance, but why can't we switch to zone blocking on running plays in Nagy's scheme? Why does that inhibit Nagy's scheme - again, not asking in a condescending way, truly don't know. Even if we run RPO's, it seems like the run blocking scheme should be independent of that.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:16 pm

wab wrote:You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.
Johnson was drafted in 2015. Thus, he's a FA this offseason. Super interesting looking guy if he can do the short yardage thing.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:33 pm

DaSuperfan wrote:Forgive my ignorance, but why can't we switch to zone blocking on running plays in Nagy's scheme? Why does that inhibit Nagy's scheme - again, not asking in a condescending way, truly don't know. Even if we run RPO's, it seems like the run blocking scheme should be independent of that.
This has been bugging me for a while as well and I'm not quite sure what the answer is. It could be the offensive linemen splits, and I actually read that last year different players were using different techniques. In theory, if these linemen are bunched in closer together you're closing off gaps that otherwise could be easily exploited (think 3-techniques in 4-3 defenses, etc). The downside is that if you do attempt to run outside zone, your cutback lanes aren't going to develop as neatly as they would otherwise.

The LA Rams have been making me extremely jealous... outside zone left, outside zone right, play action. Simple shit and they're setting the world on fire.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:53 pm

Mikefive wrote:
wab wrote:You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.
Johnson was drafted in 2015. Thus, he's a FA this offseason. Super interesting looking guy if he can do the short yardage thing.
I'm a big DJ fan but wiki suggests he hasn't got the best contract anymore as far as trade choices go.. Browns extensions FTL :(
HurricaneBear
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:22 pm

Is it possible part of the problem is we are still in the beginning stages of the offense? They've repeatedly said we are currently just scratching the surface of what this offense could be. I believe someone here said the oline started using some different blocking schemes when Howard broke a few longer runs recently. Perhaps thats the beginning of new concepts in the offense that will help improve the run game?

I personally don't think Howard is going anywhere until at least the end of his rookie contract. If by some chance we did replace him with Duke though, I wouldn't be upset. One of my alltime favorite Canes
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:07 am

HurricaneBear wrote:Is it possible part of the problem is we are still in the beginning stages of the offense? They've repeatedly said we are currently just scratching the surface of what this offense could be. I believe someone here said the oline started using some different blocking schemes when Howard broke a few longer runs recently. Perhaps thats the beginning of new concepts in the offense that will help improve the run game?

I personally don't think Howard is going anywhere until at least the end of his rookie contract. If by some chance we did replace him with Duke though, I wouldn't be upset. One of my alltime favorite Canes
Yeah. I said that they were using zone concepts at the beginning of the Lions game, and Howard was eating up 4-6 yards per carry. They they stuck another guy in the box, nagy went to the passing game, and never came back to the zone concepts (that I am aware of).

You bring up a valid point. We are not in the middle of the Nagy regime. This is the VERY beginning. It's possible that Nagy is going to take the offseason to try and figure out how to incorporate Howard better. Because you're right. You're not going to trade a talent like Howard on a rookie deal.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:16 am

Question: What’s wrong with the running game? Answer: Jordan Howard isn’t rushing for 100 yards per game.

That doesn’t mean the teams isn’t getting the job done, it’s now by committee. The bears are averaging 115 yards per game and have 10 rushing TD’s. As long as the team is moving the changes, controlling the TOP and scoring 29 PPG. Is there really a problem?

I’m a huge Howard fan, he’s my favorite offensive player but unfortunately I don’t see Nagy valuing his skill set. I don’t see him as a long term bear and that makes me sad.
“Protect this fucking house, go all out, leave that shit out on the field, let’s have some fun, makes some plays baby ” Mitch Trubisky #believethesleeve
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:20 am

Funkster wrote:Question: What’s wrong with the running game? Answer: Jordan Howard isn’t rushing for 100 yards per game.

That doesn’t mean the teams isn’t getting the job done, it’s now by committee. The bears are averaging 115 yards per game and have 10 rushing TD’s. As long as the team is moving the changes, controlling the TOP and scoring 29 PPG. Is there really a problem?

I’m a huge Howard fan, he’s my favorite offensive player but unfortunately I don’t see Nagy valuing his skill set. I don’t see him as a long term bear and that makes me sad.
What you've typed is absolutely correct.

I think the concern is that we had this superstar RB these past two seasons and for some reason the production isn't there from him this year. We know that Howard can play. We know that Nagy's offense is awesome. Why aren't the two clicking? I thought that we'd have at least one "Jordan Howard Game" this year where he just goes off because defenses would be so freaked out over the passing game.

I'm pretty sure Howard isn't the problem. I'm thinking the offensive line has issues with run blocking, but I don't know enough about that to be sure.

Another part of it could be that we really only run this offense for 2.5 quarters because as soon as we get a big lead, we start trying to manage the clock. The defense knows this and adjusts to the run. Maybe that's part of the problem? IDK.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:27 am

Lets not forget, of those 115 yds per game rushing, nearly 40 are coming from Trubisky. Not sure if you want that from your QB. So taking his stats away, your RBs are averaging between 75-80 yds per game.
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KhalilSackDaddy
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:06 am

Otis Day wrote:Lets not forget, of those 115 yds per game rushing, nearly 40 are coming from Trubisky. Not sure if you want that from your QB. So taking his stats away, your RBs are averaging between 75-80 yds per game.
I think it's part of what they expect for certain. But this is a pass first O now, not sure they are really worried about 100+ yards or x amount of runs per game.

Ried, since his days in Philly, used the short pass to supliment the run game, and you are seeing that here now. NE/GB haven't had consistently great run game for a long while, Nagy seems to be following these molds.

As long as Trubs is willing to look to pass first, 2nd and however long it takes before the OL breaks down I'm 100% okay w/him running.
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Re: So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:33 am

Otis Day wrote:Lets not forget, of those 115 yds per game rushing, nearly 40 are coming from Trubisky. Not sure if you want that from your QB. So taking his stats away, your RBs are averaging between 75-80 yds per game.
yes and no

he is running smartly and generally gets down or out of bounds without contact

every now and then he pushes it, and those results can be negative, as shown by the results of the cheap shot from the Viking dipshit

if/when Nagy wants to address all of this, he will ... he may have an entire offensive scheme they practice and just haven't used in game yet because it hasn't been needed

I think the main problem is perception ... we are not used to seeing a Bears team utilizing a multi-faceted offense so the fact we aren't seeing them pound it on the ground tells us visually there is a problem ... the reality is it is simply a change in offensive philosophy that is successful and we simply need to get accustomed to
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