So what's wrong and how do we fix the running game?

[The Marshall Plan]

Nothing of what I'm about to type is an attempt to shit on Jordan Howard. Far from it. This guy has proven that he can play at a high level in this league.

The offense is putting up roughly 30 points per game playing effectively 2.5 quarters of football before the overly conservative run out the clock playcalling kicks in. This is happening with kind of an average running game.

Bears Whiskey Nut has mentioned that Howard is a zone runner, but that's not our scheme. I'm certain that's part of it. But does that fit in with what Nagy wants? IDK.

This offense does not need an $8M+ running back to be effective. We need a slightly above average or even an average running game to convert 3rd and short. I would rather achieve that through improving the offensive line; especially the right side where Long is always injured and Massie doesn't impress.

Howard has a cap hit of $782k next year. Even if he doesn't improve at all this year it is a no brainer to keep him. Also consider that we don't have many draft picks in 2019 so drafting a replacement will not be easy. An FA signing will cost us multiples more than what it would take to just keep Howard at the $782k.

I would rather keep Howard through 2019 and evaluate what a tagging / resigning would cost. If we can rebuild the right side of the line through the draft and improve the quality that way we can use the Long or Massie money to keep Howard provided his performance improves. The only way I trade him prior to the 2019 season is for a second round pick which would just wind up being his replacement.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/chicago-bears/cap/2019/

I don't see why it's a no brainer to keep a guy who can only gets 3.3 per rush as your primary RB. It's a no brainer to do something different and improve. This is an 11-5 kinda team who is now in their Super Bowl window, certainly starting next year. If things don't dramatically improve, I would expect Pace to trade Howard in the offseason as a win-win-win and get a RB who can be more successful in our scheme. And I LOVE Jordan Howard.

Because of the cost. His cap hit is virtually nothing. Find somebody without a bigger cap hit that has the same performance potential then I'll change my mind. We know from previous years that Howard can play. Its just the scheme. Give him another year in Nagy's scheme and maybe this gets better. His performance could also be a function of the offensive line. I still think the better solution is improving the offense line and finding a solution elsewhere at RB to prevent tying up cap money at a position with declining importance.

To your point, it will be interesting to see what happens at the RT position this offseason as Massie is a FA. I don't see him as problematic as some do. I could see us re-signing him at a raise. But if you want to improve upon him, that's going to cost even more. Of course, there's always the promote Rashaad Coward experiment, which would certainly buy you significant cap space, if they want to take that risk.

To free up cap space to keep guys like Jackson and maybe Howard, we should try and solve Long's guard position in the draft. Massie could be one of those situations where he hits FA and he gets a crazy offer and has to take it. We could use his salary spot to sign a replacement or promote Coward.

[malk]

About the only good thing with Long's misfortune is that we've been ok without him so there's a potential cap saving.

Similar could be said for Howard, I love me some Howard but being able to move on from him will be massive. I'm pretty confident that the combination of Pace's great drafting and Nagy's system working with unconventional (read not needing a high pick) backs will work in our favour. We should also be looking at free agents who haven't had an opportunity that look like they could fit the bill. They're out there.

[wab]

You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.

[KhalilSackDaddy]

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.

Basic breakdown. Used less, quirky playcalling that doesn't always help a the run game, and most importantly, no stacked boxes.

He points out that Howard's biggest plays last year came from stacked boxes that meant he only had to find his hole and then beat 1 Safety down field for a big play. Said if you take away those big plays his average last year was 3.5 ypc. This year he rarely sees a stacked box and it's not allowing him to get that 1x1 w/a safety. He points out he's not really fast or ellusive so he cannot get to that 2nd level.

[Mikefive]

Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.

Basic breakdown. Used less, quirky playcalling that doesn't always help a the run game, and most importantly, no stacked boxes.

He points out that Howard's biggest plays last year came from stacked boxes that meant he only had to find his hole and then beat 1 Safety down field for a big play. Said if you take away those big plays his average last year was 3.5 ypc. This year he rarely sees a stacked box and it's not allowing him to get that 1x1 w/a safety. He points out he's not really fast or ellusive so he cannot get to that 2nd level.

I'm not quite buying that explanation. Sure, fewer stacked boxes mean less 20+ yard runs. OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.

[KhalilSackDaddy]

Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.
OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.

not necessarily. If ILB's are able to get to where he is attacking as quick as he is then he's not going to get those 5-10 yard bursts. Problem is he's not fast or elusive enough to take on a LB that is similar in size to him.

Now he could also be nursing an injury Matt Forte played through a hamstring his entire 2nd year and it definitely caused him to have a down year, and it wasn't revealed until after the season. But I think Howard limitations as a RB are starting to come to light and teams are taking advantage of it.

[Mikefive]

Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.
OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.

not necessarily. If ILB's are able to get to where he is attacking as quick as he is then he's not going to get those 5-10 yard bursts. Problem is he's not fast or elusive enough to take on a LB that is similar in size to him.

Now he could also be nursing an injury Matt Forte played through a hamstring his entire 2nd year and it definitely caused him to have a down year, and it wasn't revealed until after the season. But I think Howard limitations as a RB are starting to come to light and teams are taking advantage of it.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Welcome to the board though!

[KhalilSackDaddy]

Here is a really good breakdown from someone talking about Howard.
OK, I can accept that. But less stacked boxes should also mean more 5-10 yard gains. And we're not seeing that. The eyes don't lie.

not necessarily. If ILB's are able to get to where he is attacking as quick as he is then he's not going to get those 5-10 yard bursts. Problem is he's not fast or elusive enough to take on a LB that is similar in size to him.

Now he could also be nursing an injury Matt Forte played through a hamstring his entire 2nd year and it definitely caused him to have a down year, and it wasn't revealed until after the season. But I think Howard limitations as a RB are starting to come to light and teams are taking advantage of it.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Welcome to the board though!

No problem, sadly I don't think we'll get to disagree to long, He's gone from 18 apg, to 16 as of that youtube video, he's now down to 14. I don't think he's longed for the Bears after this season. Worse yet b/c it's been such a down year I'm not sure they can get much if anything for him.

Thanks.

[The Marshall Plan]

You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.

Nice one. He was a beast in college.

Imagine a RB in this offense who can run a 10 to 15 yard route with glue hands. Damn.

These kinds of videos are biased, but they're fun to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff2Nah3rfyU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b28giB9m7Cs

[DaSuperfan]

Forgive my ignorance, but why can't we switch to zone blocking on running plays in Nagy's scheme? Why does that inhibit Nagy's scheme - again, not asking in a condescending way, truly don't know. Even if we run RPO's, it seems like the run blocking scheme should be independent of that.

[Mikefive]

You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.

Johnson was drafted in 2015. Thus, he's a FA this offseason. Super interesting looking guy if he can do the short yardage thing.

[G08]

Forgive my ignorance, but why can't we switch to zone blocking on running plays in Nagy's scheme? Why does that inhibit Nagy's scheme - again, not asking in a condescending way, truly don't know. Even if we run RPO's, it seems like the run blocking scheme should be independent of that.

This has been bugging me for a while as well and I'm not quite sure what the answer is. It could be the offensive linemen splits, and I actually read that last year different players were using different techniques. In theory, if these linemen are bunched in closer together you're closing off gaps that otherwise could be easily exploited (think 3-techniques in 4-3 defenses, etc). The downside is that if you do attempt to run outside zone, your cutback lanes aren't going to develop as neatly as they would otherwise.

The LA Rams have been making me extremely jealous... outside zone left, outside zone right, play action. Simple shit and they're setting the world on fire.

[TheSting]

You know who would be a crazy good fit in this offense... Duke Johnson. Why Cleveland doesn't use him more just baffles me. I know Chubb is kind of starting to break out, but damn. Johnson could be really good if they'd give him touches.

Johnson was drafted in 2015. Thus, he's a FA this offseason. Super interesting looking guy if he can do the short yardage thing.

I'm a big DJ fan but wiki suggests he hasn't got the best contract anymore as far as trade choices go.. Browns extensions FTL

[HurricaneBear]

Is it possible part of the problem is we are still in the beginning stages of the offense? They've repeatedly said we are currently just scratching the surface of what this offense could be. I believe someone here said the oline started using some different blocking schemes when Howard broke a few longer runs recently. Perhaps thats the beginning of new concepts in the offense that will help improve the run game?

I personally don't think Howard is going anywhere until at least the end of his rookie contract. If by some chance we did replace him with Duke though, I wouldn't be upset. One of my alltime favorite Canes

[Bears Whiskey Nut]

Is it possible part of the problem is we are still in the beginning stages of the offense? They've repeatedly said we are currently just scratching the surface of what this offense could be. I believe someone here said the oline started using some different blocking schemes when Howard broke a few longer runs recently. Perhaps thats the beginning of new concepts in the offense that will help improve the run game?

I personally don't think Howard is going anywhere until at least the end of his rookie contract. If by some chance we did replace him with Duke though, I wouldn't be upset. One of my alltime favorite Canes

Yeah. I said that they were using zone concepts at the beginning of the Lions game, and Howard was eating up 4-6 yards per carry. They they stuck another guy in the box, nagy went to the passing game, and never came back to the zone concepts (that I am aware of).

You bring up a valid point. We are not in the middle of the Nagy regime. This is the VERY beginning. It's possible that Nagy is going to take the offseason to try and figure out how to incorporate Howard better. Because you're right. You're not going to trade a talent like Howard on a rookie deal.

[Funkster]

Question: What’s wrong with the running game? Answer: Jordan Howard isn’t rushing for 100 yards per game.

That doesn’t mean the teams isn’t getting the job done, it’s now by committee. The bears are averaging 115 yards per game and have 10 rushing TD’s. As long as the team is moving the changes, controlling the TOP and scoring 29 PPG. Is there really a problem?

I’m a huge Howard fan, he’s my favorite offensive player but unfortunately I don’t see Nagy valuing his skill set. I don’t see him as a long term bear and that makes me sad.

[The Marshall Plan]

Question: What’s wrong with the running game? Answer: Jordan Howard isn’t rushing for 100 yards per game.

That doesn’t mean the teams isn’t getting the job done, it’s now by committee. The bears are averaging 115 yards per game and have 10 rushing TD’s. As long as the team is moving the changes, controlling the TOP and scoring 29 PPG. Is there really a problem?

I’m a huge Howard fan, he’s my favorite offensive player but unfortunately I don’t see Nagy valuing his skill set. I don’t see him as a long term bear and that makes me sad.

What you've typed is absolutely correct.

I think the concern is that we had this superstar RB these past two seasons and for some reason the production isn't there from him this year. We know that Howard can play. We know that Nagy's offense is awesome. Why aren't the two clicking? I thought that we'd have at least one "Jordan Howard Game" this year where he just goes off because defenses would be so freaked out over the passing game.

I'm pretty sure Howard isn't the problem. I'm thinking the offensive line has issues with run blocking, but I don't know enough about that to be sure.

Another part of it could be that we really only run this offense for 2.5 quarters because as soon as we get a big lead, we start trying to manage the clock. The defense knows this and adjusts to the run. Maybe that's part of the problem? IDK.

[Otis Day]

Lets not forget, of those 115 yds per game rushing, nearly 40 are coming from Trubisky. Not sure if you want that from your QB. So taking his stats away, your RBs are averaging between 75-80 yds per game.

[KhalilSackDaddy]

Lets not forget, of those 115 yds per game rushing, nearly 40 are coming from Trubisky. Not sure if you want that from your QB. So taking his stats away, your RBs are averaging between 75-80 yds per game.

I think it's part of what they expect for certain. But this is a pass first O now, not sure they are really worried about 100+ yards or x amount of runs per game.

Ried, since his days in Philly, used the short pass to supliment the run game, and you are seeing that here now. NE/GB haven't had consistently great run game for a long while, Nagy seems to be following these molds.

As long as Trubs is willing to look to pass first, 2nd and however long it takes before the OL breaks down I'm 100% okay w/him running.

[Boris13c]

Lets not forget, of those 115 yds per game rushing, nearly 40 are coming from Trubisky. Not sure if you want that from your QB. So taking his stats away, your RBs are averaging between 75-80 yds per game.

yes and no

he is running smartly and generally gets down or out of bounds without contact

every now and then he pushes it, and those results can be negative, as shown by the results of the cheap shot from the Viking dipshit

if/when Nagy wants to address all of this, he will ... he may have an entire offensive scheme they practice and just haven't used in game yet because it hasn't been needed

I think the main problem is perception ... we are not used to seeing a Bears team utilizing a multi-faceted offense so the fact we aren't seeing them pound it on the ground tells us visually there is a problem ... the reality is it is simply a change in offensive philosophy that is successful and we simply need to get accustomed to

[wab]

Before Nagy, Jordan Howard WAS the offense. Now the Bears actually have more than just Jordan Howard.

We can't have our cake and have Howard run for 115 yards a game too.

[southdakbearfan]

Before Nagy, Jordan Howard WAS the offense. Now the Bears actually have more than just Jordan Howard.

We can't have our cake and have Howard run for 115 yards a game too.

Definitely. But it would be nice to see a little more consistent running game to burn clock with big leads.

[KhalilSackDaddy]

Before Nagy, Jordan Howard WAS the offense. Now the Bears actually have more than just Jordan Howard.

We can't have our cake and have Howard run for 115 yards a game too.

1000% agree with this. But really he went from 18 apg last year to 16 earlier this year to around 14-15 as of now. So it's not like he shouldn't have better rushing yards then he actually does.

All the same, I'll take the the 10ppg increase over the last few years where they struggled to score 20.

[Mikefive]

Before Nagy, Jordan Howard WAS the offense. Now the Bears actually have more than just Jordan Howard.

We can't have our cake and have Howard run for 115 yards a game too.

OK. But I don't think it's too much to ask to have our cake and have Howard run for 4+ per carry for 15 touches a game.

[Otis Day]

What are you supposed to do when you have cake? Look at it? No offense to anyone, but always hated that saying.

I use, you can't have cake and ice cream too. Makes more sense to me.

[Boris13c]

What are you supposed to do when you have cake? Look at it?

if you go by the saying, yes .... when you have it, you are looking at it

when you eat it, then there is no more cake unless you're counting stomach contents ... once eaten, you no longer have it

No offense to anyone, but always hated that saying.

agreed ... my guess is it originated somewhere in England at a time long ago when they still thought wearing powdered wigs was a key fashion accessory ... and probably was uttered by a member of their inbred royalty

I use, you can't have cake and ice cream too. Makes more sense to me.

oh yeah? well what about ice cream cake?

[G08]

Question: What’s wrong with the running game? Answer: Jordan Howard isn’t rushing for 100 yards per game.

That doesn’t mean the teams isn’t getting the job done, it’s now by committee. The bears are averaging 115 yards per game and have 10 rushing TD’s. As long as the team is moving the changes, controlling the TOP and scoring 29 PPG. Is there really a problem?

I’m a huge Howard fan, he’s my favorite offensive player but unfortunately I don’t see Nagy valuing his skill set. I don’t see him as a long term bear and that makes me sad.

To me, I greatly value the ability to run the ball when you want to (i.e. bleed clock, etc). Our RBs are averaging 3.6 yards per carry... that's terrible. Jordan Howard himself is at 3.3. It's a huge concern in my book.

It's more than possible to be an elite scoring offense and have your feature back average 4.0 YPC.

In this same offense, Kareem Hunt is averaging 4.6 yards per carry.

Here's the rest of the top 5 scoring offenses in the NFL:

Alvin Kamara is at 4.7

Mark Ingram is at 4.9

Todd Gurley is at 5.0.

Marlon Mack is at 5.1

Jordan Howard is at 3.3


One of these things is not like the others, bros

[Boris13c]

Question: What’s wrong with the running game? Answer: Jordan Howard isn’t rushing for 100 yards per game.

That doesn’t mean the teams isn’t getting the job done, it’s now by committee. The bears are averaging 115 yards per game and have 10 rushing TD’s. As long as the team is moving the changes, controlling the TOP and scoring 29 PPG. Is there really a problem?

I’m a huge Howard fan, he’s my favorite offensive player but unfortunately I don’t see Nagy valuing his skill set. I don’t see him as a long term bear and that makes me sad.

To me, I greatly value the ability to run the ball when you want to (i.e. bleed clock, etc). Our RBs are averaging 3.6 yards per carry... that's terrible. Jordan Howard himself is at 3.3. It's a huge concern in my book.

It's more than possible to be an elite scoring offense and have your feature back average 4.0 YPC.

In this same offense, Kareem Hunt is averaging 4.6 yards per carry.

Here's the rest of the top 5 scoring offenses in the NFL:

Alvin Kamara is at 4.7

Mark Ingram is at 4.9

Todd Gurley is at 5.0.

Marlon Mack is at 5.1

Jordan Howard is at 3.3


One of these things is not like the others, bros

valid observations and taken by themselves paint a potentially troubling picture

but

perhaps this is simply by design? maybe the offense is geared so that it can be successful with the running game as an afterthought?

that sucks for Howard, because I think in a more conventional scheme he would likely be one of the top RB's in the league

Nagy is not big on being conventional ... but he does seem to be big on success ... and it is obvious the entire team is buying into what he is selling them ... and success is the result

all that said, I am guessing Nagy is also smart enough to have his cold weather package at the ready ... something with perhaps a bit more of a brute force in your face style rather than the finesse currently in vogue

bottom line is, I'm not worried ... I am happy to simply sit back and enjoy a level of comfortable success I have rarely known as a Bears fan, confident that the details required to continue it will get their due attention

[G08]

I think regardless of offensive scheme or however many points are being put up, you need to be able to run the ball, so I don't think this is by design. Truthfully, any time Nagy is asked about the run game in his pressers you can hear the sigh and frustration in his voice.

I'll say this... if we can figure out how to get Jordan Howard going, our offense is going to become THAT much more explosive. We are doing all this without the threat of the play action... imagine what Cohen/Gabriel etc can do with 8 men in the box trying to stop our run game.

[Pagan]

Save for the Bears last game... The Bears have been toward the tops in the league in time of possession.

It's not tradional or what we're used to, but but Nagy has taken the teams current weakness & made it all work out nicely.