Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Line?
Moderator: wab
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
Jesus. The pick 6 was way more relevant to why the Bears lost than the timeout.
- southdakbearfan
- Head Coach
- Posts: 4600
- Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:23 pm
- Location: South Dakota
- Has thanked: 763 times
- Been thanked: 328 times
they lost for a lot of reasons, poor decisions by the QB, poor decisions by the coach, defense being gassed and not stopping them, fumbles, take your pick. All of them added up to a loss.
- KhalilSackDaddy
- Practice Squad
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm
wab wrote:Jesus. The pick 6 was way more relevant to why the Bears lost than the timeout.
It was, but the TO seemed to have changed the momentum of the game. Giants all of a sudden felt like they had a legit shot again after they got the 1st down and a fg.
Both were big parts of the loss.
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 2730
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:55 am
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 7 times
Because down 7 at the half they would have thought they had no shot?KhalilSackDaddy wrote:wab wrote:Jesus. The pick 6 was way more relevant to why the Bears lost than the timeout.
It was, but the TO seemed to have changed the momentum of the game. Giants all of a sudden felt like they had a legit shot again after they got the 1st down and a fg.
Both were big parts of the loss.
- VA_Mountain_Bear
- Crafty Veteran
- Posts: 798
- Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:19 am
- Has thanked: 17 times
- Been thanked: 44 times
Lots of things contributed. Gabriel not catching anything except for when he fumbles and lets them score. Miller dropping that pass at the 1 making us kick FG (if we get td there and still get the online kick and a td we win), coach choices, Chase being pretty bad early on not leading Robinson so dbs can swat the ball, locking onto only Robinson, never throwing the ball away to aviod sacks, never except once just going down for his sack instead of running backwards, the early Int, the Time out, ect....
Thank god we get Trubisky back next week.
But while I felt shitty during the game I am fine now guys. Wanna know why? Our whole division lost so we maintain the same lead for the playoff race! I mean it still sucks losing to a crap team, but we were down our starting QB. Look across the league upsets every where, Saints losing to Boys, Panthers losing to Bucs, Pack losing to Cardinals, Colts getting shut out.....it was one out of whack weekend.
Thank god we get Trubisky back next week.
But while I felt shitty during the game I am fine now guys. Wanna know why? Our whole division lost so we maintain the same lead for the playoff race! I mean it still sucks losing to a crap team, but we were down our starting QB. Look across the league upsets every where, Saints losing to Boys, Panthers losing to Bucs, Pack losing to Cardinals, Colts getting shut out.....it was one out of whack weekend.
- KhalilSackDaddy
- Practice Squad
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm
Down 10 at half if they don't get the 1st and a fg, which they don't if Nagy doesn't call the TO. That O had done nothing all half, the 7 points they had was from a def pick 6. That NY O was defeated and Nagy gave them an ounce of life.MoFugger wrote:Because down 7 at the half they would have thought they had no shot?KhalilSackDaddy wrote:wab wrote:Jesus. The pick 6 was way more relevant to why the Bears lost than the timeout.
It was, but the TO seemed to have changed the momentum of the game. Giants all of a sudden felt like they had a legit shot again after they got the 1st down and a fg.
Both were big parts of the loss.
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 2730
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:55 am
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 7 times
Halftime score was 14-10. Without the FG they're down 7.KhalilSackDaddy wrote:Down 10 at half if they don't get the 1st and a fg, which they don't if Nagy doesn't call the TO. That O had done nothing all half, the 7 points they had was from a def pick 6. That NY O was defeated and Nagy gave them an ounce of life.MoFugger wrote:Because down 7 at the half they would have thought they had no shot?KhalilSackDaddy wrote:wab wrote:Jesus. The pick 6 was way more relevant to why the Bears lost than the timeout.
It was, but the TO seemed to have changed the momentum of the game. Giants all of a sudden felt like they had a legit shot again after they got the 1st down and a fg.
Both were big parts of the loss.
- KhalilSackDaddy
- Practice Squad
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm
yep, but the NY O has scored 0 and done nothing that entire half, that 7 points was the Oglegtree pick 6. The NY team was ready to just run out the clock, w/the TO they decided to take a shot and it worked out in their favor; that TO gave them all the momentum going into half; and it carried over w/a TD on the first drive of the 3rd qtr.MoFugger wrote:Halftime score was 14-10. Without the FG they're down 7.KhalilSackDaddy wrote:Down 10 at half if they don't get the 1st and a fg, which they don't if Nagy doesn't call the TO. That O had done nothing all half, the 7 points they had was from a def pick 6. That NY O was defeated and Nagy gave them an ounce of life.MoFugger wrote:Because down 7 at the half they would have thought they had no shot?KhalilSackDaddy wrote:wab wrote:Jesus. The pick 6 was way more relevant to why the Bears lost than the timeout.
It was, but the TO seemed to have changed the momentum of the game. Giants all of a sudden felt like they had a legit shot again after they got the 1st down and a fg.
Both were big parts of the loss.
And really, what was Nagy thinking was going to happen if they got the ball back? Chase was going to drive the ball and get a score? Not w/the way he was playing he wasn't. Just a bad decision that killed his teams momentum.
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11017
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 516 times
The fact of the matter is, the poor play by the back-up QB cost us the game. He was horrible. It's why he's had four starts in his career. He's not good. He was late delivering the ball, the game was too fast for him, and he held the ball too long. Not to mention, he couldn't seem to hold on to it. Fumbles, fumbled snaps, etc. He's bad. Like really bad. That's why we lost. Not the time out, not the defense. It was the play of the QB.
- KhalilSackDaddy
- Practice Squad
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:11 pm
Chase is the #1 reason no doubt; unless you consider that Nagy decided to give Mitch an extra week of rest(I say that b/c last week they said Mitch could have played on Sunday but wasn't playing Det b/c of the short week). If you add that w/the bad time out then Nagy enters the conversation.Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:The fact of the matter is, the poor play by the back-up QB cost us the game. He was horrible. It's why he's had four starts in his career. He's not good. He was late delivering the ball, the game was too fast for him, and he held the ball too long. Not to mention, he couldn't seem to hold on to it. Fumbles, fumbled snaps, etc. He's bad. Like really bad. That's why we lost. Not the time out, not the defense. It was the play of the QB.
Still top 10 reasons for the Loss
10) Def couldn't stop a worn out past his prime qb
9) Rookie RB w/no pass support ran for a buck twentyfive on them
8) Odell threw as many TD's as the Bears QB
7) Chase threw as many TD's to the other team as he did to the Bears
6) Whitehair snaps were all over the place
5) Chase Daniels baby hands couldn't handle wet balls
4) Nagy stoppred running Howard; and this time Howard earned more touches in the 2nd 1/2
3) Nagy's timeout gave NY life
2) Chase is a garden gnome in the pocket
1) Chase's knowledge in the system doesn't change that he's weak armed and immobile, and slow in his progressiosn/throws
- wab
- Mod
- Posts: 29805
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:49 pm
- Has thanked: 127 times
- Been thanked: 1956 times
The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- Pagan
- MVP
- Posts: 1408
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 11:19 am
- Location: South Bend, Indiana
- Has thanked: 40 times
- Been thanked: 3 times
Yeah I heard the interview too. That still doesnt add up to the timeout... on what, 3rd down 22,23 yards to go?G08 wrote:FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
The ONLY problem with that timeout is that it didn't come soon enough.
I believe the clock wound all the way down to like 17 seconds (from 50 sec).
3rd & 23 means you're getting the ball back, and just about every time.
Is everyone seriously so starving for a personal win, to bask in the glory of finally being right, that you're constantly willing to abandon all common sense & latch on to every click bait inducing 'hot take", pretend like it's your genius original thought & regurgitate it (with wreck less abandon)?
Not even pausing to think it out..
Also...
momentum?
We're struggling so hard to find fault we're now trying to quantify momentum as a stat?
Have we all gotten so used to bitching about our team losing that we can't even be happy with anything this team does?
It almost feels like there's more handwringing & bitching about this team now that they're, you know, actually good~ then when we were constantly scraping to reach 6 wins.
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 2730
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:55 am
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 7 times
Well said.Pagan wrote:Yeah I heard the interview too. That still doesnt add up to the timeout... on what, 3rd down 22,23 yards to go?G08 wrote:FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
The ONLY problem with that timeout is that it didn't come soon enough.
I believe the clock wound all the way down to like 17 seconds (from 50 sec).
3rd & 23 means you're getting the ball back, and just about every time.
Is everyone seriously so starving for a personal win, to bask in the glory of finally being right, that you're constantly willing to abandon all common sense & latch on to every click bait inducing 'hot take", pretend like it's your genius original thought & regurgitate it (with wreck less abandon)?
Not even pausing to think it out..
Also...
momentum?
We're struggling so hard to find fault we're now trying to quantify momentum as a stat?
Have we all gotten so used to bitching about our team losing that we can't even be happy with anything this team does?
It almost feels like there's more handwringing & bitching about this team now that they're, you know, actually good~ then when we were constantly scraping to reach 6 wins.
- Boris13c
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 15958
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
- Location: The Bear Nebula
- Has thanked: 38 times
- Been thanked: 103 times
G08 wrote:FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?
as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
George Carlin
yup. I put more onus on the defense making 1 stop, than Nagy playing the odds and trying to make something positive happen.G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?
as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
“Taylor, we've run out of timeouts. Go in there and get hurt.”
-
- Head Coach
- Posts: 2730
- Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:55 am
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 7 times
And that is actually One stop on two tries. Remember, they had to convert, and get out of bounds on 4th down in order to line up and kick the longest field goal in Giants history.mohner1 wrote:yup. I put more onus on the defense making 1 stop, than Nagy playing the odds and trying to make something positive happen.G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?
as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
- G08
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 20560
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 12:34 pm
- Location: Football Hell
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 758 times
Feels like Coward is Hiestand's pet project... I'm not sure they want to move him around and just want to see if he can progress enough to be an RT for us in the future.Z Bear wrote:Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
9 PLAYOFF APPEARANCES IN THE PAST 35 SEASONS
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11017
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 516 times
I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11017
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 516 times
Agreed. Barring injury, Coward isn't seeing the field this year. They keep him on the 53, because he showed enough on tape to warrant being poached. But he's not ready for prime time yet.G08 wrote:Feels like Coward is Hiestand's pet project... I'm not sure they want to move him around and just want to see if he can progress enough to be an RT for us in the future.Z Bear wrote:Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
- Boris13c
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 15958
- Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:30 am
- Location: The Bear Nebula
- Has thanked: 38 times
- Been thanked: 103 times
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum
the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
"Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things."
George Carlin
George Carlin
- Bears Whiskey Nut
- Hall of Famer
- Posts: 11017
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:06 am
- Location: Oak Park, IL
- Has thanked: 77 times
- Been thanked: 516 times
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...Boris13c wrote:Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum
the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too