Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:11 pm
by Boris13c
G08 wrote:
wab wrote:The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?
as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:47 pm
by mohner1
G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?
as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
yup. I put more onus on the defense making 1 stop, than Nagy playing the odds and trying to make something positive happen.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:53 pm
by MoFugger
mohner1 wrote:
G08 wrote:
wab wrote:
The timeout bullshit is, well... bullshit. So can we just lay that one to rest?
Wanna talk about Barkley? Cool
Wanna talk about the pick 6? Fine
Wanna talk about Chase fumbling the ball like 8 times? Go right ahead
Wanna talk about the lack of pass rush against a shitty OL? Be my guest.
Wanna talk about the batted balls and poor accuracy? Feel free.
The timeout before the half isn't the reason the Bear lost.
FWIW Akiem Hicks said that was a huge play in the game, I'm inclined to agree. Wasn't the reason we lost, but we gave them momentum on a stupid coaching decision.
the point I think was for the Bears to get the ball back with time to kick a half ending FG, which I could see but if that was his point, then why not call the timeout earlier?
as for it not working, I don't recall Nagy being 1 of the 5 Bears defenders that could have stopped Barkley after a gain of 3 yards but instead let him run for 20 ... go watch that replay ... looks like the Bears just said screw it and thought time would run out as he ran around
yup. I put more onus on the defense making 1 stop, than Nagy playing the odds and trying to make something positive happen.
And that is actually One stop on two tries. Remember, they had to convert, and get out of bounds on 4th down in order to line up and kick the longest field goal in Giants history.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:17 am
by Pagan
Bringing this topic back on track...
What are your guys opinions on moving Kush bac in there... or even Calling Coward (big assed mauler) up from the PS?
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:46 am
by Z Bear
Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:50 am
by G08
Z Bear wrote:Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
Feels like Coward is Hiestand's pet project... I'm not sure they want to move him around and just want to see if he can progress enough to be an RT for us in the future.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:51 am
by Bears Whiskey Nut
I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:52 am
by Bears Whiskey Nut
G08 wrote:
Z Bear wrote:Cowart has been on the 53 all season, he has not been active on a single game day though
Feels like Coward is Hiestand's pet project... I'm not sure they want to move him around and just want to see if he can progress enough to be an RT for us in the future.
Agreed. Barring injury, Coward isn't seeing the field this year. They keep him on the 53, because he showed enough on tape to warrant being poached. But he's not ready for prime time yet.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:57 am
by Boris13c
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum
the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:01 am
by Bears Whiskey Nut
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum
the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:07 am
by Boris13c
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum
the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...
hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off
I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:42 pm
by Bears Whiskey Nut
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum
the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...
hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off
I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
I was being facetious. I think the two big gains that he had against the Giants were semi-counter plays, where the OL pushed the pile one way, and Howard snuck out the back door. I think they were counter plays. Maybe I'm wrong.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:19 am
by Adipost
Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:40 am
by Bears Whiskey Nut
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...
Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:25 am
by Adipost
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...
Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
I don’t have PFF, nor do I put that much value in their grades.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:20 am
by Boris13c
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.
you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum
the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...
hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off
I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
I was being facetious. I think the two big gains that he had against the Giants were semi-counter plays, where the OL pushed the pile one way, and Howard snuck out the back door. I think they were counter plays. Maybe I'm wrong.
I'm pretty sure they weren't designed counter plays ... I think it was Howard simply choosing to cut back
if they were designed counters, they were not blocked properly
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:22 am
by Boris13c
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...
forget Witzmann ... watch and admire that awesome pass and reception by Robinson
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:10 pm
by Pagan
Yeah.. I'm not going to totally hang the dude out to dry on 1 bad game either.
He MUST either be an upgrade over Kush, either production or in health.
I don't remember anyone talking about it here, but I head (Nagy I believe) is say something about Kush dealing with a recurring neck injury~> which has got to mean bad neck disc's.
Wouldn't be surprised to hear Kush either getting offseason kneck surgery or being released after the season.
As for any talk about the potential Witzman/Donald nightmare... I we should all keep in mind that most of Donald's biggest inside sacks/pressures are coming from the LEFT side of tge Oline.
So... Daniels/Donald is the buried lead story here.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:28 pm
by Mikefive
Boris13c wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...
forget Witzmann ... watch and admire that awesome pass and reception by Robinson
No kidding. Chase knows he's going to get smashed and puts it out there about as good as can be there. And a downright incredible catch.
I think that our offense spreads stuff around so much clouds how good ARob is right now. He is really REALLY good. We could target him 15x/per game and be effective.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:51 pm
by G08
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...
Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
He's really bad, Whiskey. If I'm LA I put Donald over him all night and just beat his ass.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:32 pm
by KOP_Snake
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Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:54 pm
by bearsfaninaz
KOP_Snake wrote:
Yikes that was rough to watch. Familiar or not he needs to get out of the line up
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:11 am
by Otis Day
That was an indictment on the entire OL but especially Witzmann. It seems , like the guy said, the OL is not sure of their responsibilities at times. Another training camp and OTAs, next year should be much better. I agree what he says about Howard, WTF is he supposed to do, where is he supposed to run?
Great video, thanks for posting.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:35 am
by cblaz11
Ya, at a certain point we have to look at the run scheme. Maybe Nagy needs to dumb it down a little because these guys are struggling more with assignment vs blocking.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:55 am
by Mikefive
Otis Day wrote:That was an indictment on the entire OL but especially Witzmann. It seems , like the guy said, the OL is not sure of their responsibilities at times. Another training camp and OTAs, next year should be much better. I agree what he says about Howard, WTF is he supposed to do, where is he supposed to run?
Great video, thanks for posting.
This. All day long. Although by midway in the season, they should have this stuff down.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:41 pm
by Bears Whiskey Nut
Here is the problem I have with this video. He doesn't give you anything meaningful. He is playing a tape back and forth, and in his crappy NY accent, is saying "this can't happen", "He gets beat", "Needs lower pad level". Well no fucking shit. Thanks for telling me what I can see with my own eyes. What you don't know is WHO is actually missing their assignment. My guess it is Witzmann, but that jackass doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the scheme. This goes back to what G08 has been saying, and what I learned from this video (which is much, much better technically and educationally);
The Bears have the OL and the RB for zone blocking, and they are trying to play power block between the tackles with Howard.
Here is a questions. Did Notre Dame run a power or a zone scheme under Heistand?
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:50 pm
by Mikefive
I think you're being pretty harsh, BWN. The guy's point is to look at the tape and point out good and bad. Is he in the Bears locker room? No. And he doesn't claim to be. The reality is that 99+% of fans never review tape. So to be able to look at tape after the fact has SOME value, even if it's not perfect/fully informative. You have to be able to see that.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:47 pm
by Otis Day
With these lapses in execution, I see Donald and Suh licking their chops to get at this line. Seems to me that the Rams blitz one LB up the middle and that will cause confusion for Witzmann and or Daniels.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:59 pm
by Bears Whiskey Nut
Mikefive wrote:I think you're being pretty harsh, BWN. The guy's point is to look at the tape and point out good and bad. Is he in the Bears locker room? No. And he doesn't claim to be. The reality is that 99+% of fans never review tape. So to be able to look at tape after the fact has SOME value, even if it's not perfect/fully informative. You have to be able to see that.
OK. My comments were a little over the top. I just really dislike crappy analysis. If you're going to analyze something, give me insight I wouldn't otherwise be able to glean myself. Don't tell me what my eyes can already see. That's all.
Re: Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Li
Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:48 am
by Otis Day
I would say they made us eat our words. Helluva game by the entire line and the interior line especially.
