Can We Talk About Witzman and the Right Side of the O Line?

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Boris13c
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...


hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off

I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
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Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...


hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off

I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
I was being facetious. I think the two big gains that he had against the Giants were semi-counter plays, where the OL pushed the pile one way, and Howard snuck out the back door. I think they were counter plays. Maybe I'm wrong.
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Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
I don’t have PFF, nor do I put that much value in their grades.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Boris13c wrote:
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:I think that they need to stay the course with the personnel. Witzmann had a bad game. Every player does. I think that Nagy needs to be scheming against the Rams biggest defensive strength, their pass rush. Call screen passes, quick slants, and draw plays. Allow the DL into the backfield, and then burn them for it. Wear them out.


you know what else helps slow down hard rushing defensive linemen? counter plays in the running game ... motion and blocking 1 way with the RB going the other by design ... generally 1 defender is allowed to be free to take himself out of the play with his own momentum

the old Redskins counter trey was effective and a similar type play with Howard could/would be too
Hmmm...Boris. And I wonder which plays Howard broke for huge gains last week...hmmmm...let me think. I'll get. Hold on a minute...


hard to have a big gain when you're getting hit almost at the same time as you get the hand-off

I don't understand the current Bears running game at all ... Howard is not Barkley ... he isn't going to simply bounce from where the hole was supposed to be and rip off 8-11 yards ... Howard needs a hole or a reasonable facsimile of one ... and when he gets one, he DOES get nice gains
I was being facetious. I think the two big gains that he had against the Giants were semi-counter plays, where the OL pushed the pile one way, and Howard snuck out the back door. I think they were counter plays. Maybe I'm wrong.


I'm pretty sure they weren't designed counter plays ... I think it was Howard simply choosing to cut back

if they were designed counters, they were not blocked properly
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Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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forget Witzmann ... watch and admire that awesome pass and reception by Robinson
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Yeah.. I'm not going to totally hang the dude out to dry on 1 bad game either.
He MUST either be an upgrade over Kush, either production or in health.

I don't remember anyone talking about it here, but I head (Nagy I believe) is say something about Kush dealing with a recurring neck injury~> which has got to mean bad neck disc's.

Wouldn't be surprised to hear Kush either getting offseason kneck surgery or being released after the season.

As for any talk about the potential Witzman/Donald nightmare... I we should all keep in mind that most of Donald's biggest inside sacks/pressures are coming from the LEFT side of tge Oline.

So... Daniels/Donald is the buried lead story here.
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Boris13c wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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forget Witzmann ... watch and admire that awesome pass and reception by Robinson
No kidding. Chase knows he's going to get smashed and puts it out there about as good as can be there. And a downright incredible catch.

I think that our offense spreads stuff around so much clouds how good ARob is right now. He is really REALLY good. We could target him 15x/per game and be effective.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Adipost wrote:Witzmann is awful, probably the worst starting offensive lineman in the league currently...

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Is that what PFF says, or are you basing it off of that one play, in which you have no idea who actually missed their assignment?
He's really bad, Whiskey. If I'm LA I put Donald over him all night and just beat his ass.
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KOP_Snake wrote:
Yikes that was rough to watch. Familiar or not he needs to get out of the line up
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That was an indictment on the entire OL but especially Witzmann. It seems , like the guy said, the OL is not sure of their responsibilities at times. Another training camp and OTAs, next year should be much better. I agree what he says about Howard, WTF is he supposed to do, where is he supposed to run?

Great video, thanks for posting.
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Ya, at a certain point we have to look at the run scheme. Maybe Nagy needs to dumb it down a little because these guys are struggling more with assignment vs blocking.
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Otis Day wrote:That was an indictment on the entire OL but especially Witzmann. It seems , like the guy said, the OL is not sure of their responsibilities at times. Another training camp and OTAs, next year should be much better. I agree what he says about Howard, WTF is he supposed to do, where is he supposed to run?

Great video, thanks for posting.
This. All day long. Although by midway in the season, they should have this stuff down.
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Here is the problem I have with this video. He doesn't give you anything meaningful. He is playing a tape back and forth, and in his crappy NY accent, is saying "this can't happen", "He gets beat", "Needs lower pad level". Well no fucking shit. Thanks for telling me what I can see with my own eyes. What you don't know is WHO is actually missing their assignment. My guess it is Witzmann, but that jackass doesn't tell you ANYTHING about the scheme. This goes back to what G08 has been saying, and what I learned from this video (which is much, much better technically and educationally);

Jordan Howard

The Bears have the OL and the RB for zone blocking, and they are trying to play power block between the tackles with Howard.

Here is a questions. Did Notre Dame run a power or a zone scheme under Heistand?
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I think you're being pretty harsh, BWN. The guy's point is to look at the tape and point out good and bad. Is he in the Bears locker room? No. And he doesn't claim to be. The reality is that 99+% of fans never review tape. So to be able to look at tape after the fact has SOME value, even if it's not perfect/fully informative. You have to be able to see that.
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With these lapses in execution, I see Donald and Suh licking their chops to get at this line. Seems to me that the Rams blitz one LB up the middle and that will cause confusion for Witzmann and or Daniels.
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Mikefive wrote:I think you're being pretty harsh, BWN. The guy's point is to look at the tape and point out good and bad. Is he in the Bears locker room? No. And he doesn't claim to be. The reality is that 99+% of fans never review tape. So to be able to look at tape after the fact has SOME value, even if it's not perfect/fully informative. You have to be able to see that.
OK. My comments were a little over the top. I just really dislike crappy analysis. If you're going to analyze something, give me insight I wouldn't otherwise be able to glean myself. Don't tell me what my eyes can already see. That's all.
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I would say they made us eat our words. Helluva game by the entire line and the interior line especially.
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Very good game by our O\line and nice scheme set up by the coaches.
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Otis Day wrote:I would say they made us eat our words. Helluva game by the entire line and the interior line especially.
They highlighted several solid blocks that Witzmann threw last night, to spring RB's. He was pretty solid last night.
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Otis Day wrote:I would say they made us eat our words. Helluva game by the entire line and the interior line especially.
They highlighted several solid blocks that Witzmann threw last night, to spring RB's. He was pretty solid last night.

yes he was, along with the rest of the O-Line

didn't see Donald or Suh running amok like they do on a regular basis
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Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
Mikefive wrote:I think you're being pretty harsh, BWN. The guy's point is to look at the tape and point out good and bad. Is he in the Bears locker room? No. And he doesn't claim to be. The reality is that 99+% of fans never review tape. So to be able to look at tape after the fact has SOME value, even if it's not perfect/fully informative. You have to be able to see that.
OK. My comments were a little over the top. I just really dislike crappy analysis. If you're going to analyze something, give me insight I wouldn't otherwise be able to glean myself. Don't tell me what my eyes can already see. That's all.
You're not wrong, that dude talks out of his ass. I forget which video it was but he was bagging on the OL for blocking the wrong guy and Nagy actually had addressed it and said the mistake was on another player.
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Otis Day wrote:I would say they made us eat our words. Helluva game by the entire line and the interior line especially.
Not me.

I believe I saw him having a bounce back game. :)

Really glad for it too. I This team NEEDS to continue gelling.
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Apparently Long just got the boot off. It’s possible but certainly not a guarantee he’ll play again his season.

https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/10 ... 09856?s=20
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BR0D1E86 wrote:Apparently Long just got the boot off. It’s possible but certainly not a guarantee he’ll play again his season.

https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/10 ... 09856?s=20
I don't see any need.
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wab wrote:
BR0D1E86 wrote:Apparently Long just got the boot off. It’s possible but certainly not a guarantee he’ll play again his season.

https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/10 ... 09856?s=20
I don't see any need.

blocking FB on goal line?
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wab wrote:
BR0D1E86 wrote:Apparently Long just got the boot off. It’s possible but certainly not a guarantee he’ll play again his season.

https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/10 ... 09856?s=20
I don't see any need.
Nothing would make me happier than to see him starting at RG in our first playoff game since 2010 (God-willing). I'm a nostalgic MFer though!
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wab wrote:
BR0D1E86 wrote:Apparently Long just got the boot off. It’s possible but certainly not a guarantee he’ll play again his season.

https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/10 ... 09856?s=20
I don't see any need.
Sad to say, there's no real point for him or the team to not give it a bash. If he's staring down the barrel of cuts he might as well see if he can put together some playoff tape and scrape back onto the team.

He's a prime candidate for the pay cuts that never happen. I can't imagine he gets much on the open market, so a $4-5m pay cut in 2019 saves us as much as cutting him and he gets a chance to prove his health on a team and scheme he knows. Crazy it never seems to happen.
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