How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

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At what price, do you trade Jordan Howard?

I wouldn't trade him
9
24%
2nd round pick
12
32%
3rd round pick
14
37%
3rd round comp pick
0
No votes
4th round pick
2
5%
4th round comp pick
0
No votes
5th rounder
0
No votes
5th round comp pick
0
No votes
6th rounder
1
3%
7th rounder
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 38
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The Marshall Plan
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:19 am

Howard's performance improved when we switched to a zone blocking scheme later in the season. He only got 10 carries in the one playoff game we had so its hard to evaluate that.

That being said, we need to keep that defense together as long as possible. Nagy's offense is also one where we don't need an $8 million RB. We do need more of a dual threat and we can get that through the draft.

If Howard gets dealt it wouldn't surprise me at all if he's successful at the new team.
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cblaz11
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:37 am

I’d take a high 3rd rd pick for him. If someone offers a 2, done.

I love Howard, but he’s just not elite. His numbers are going to get him more money then I feel he’s worth...Because of that, if we can move him, do it.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:18 am

Umbali wrote:
VA_Mountain_Bear wrote:I love me some Howard. If Nagy goes more to the blocking schemes of the last 1/4 of the season over the first 3/4 he can do better. But, don't flame me for this, if Kareem Hunt can be cleared to join a team again I'd take him over Howard with no second thoughts. He would literally be the perfect back for this offense. Can you imagine him and Cohen together?
Hunt can be our kicker too! No more Parkey! 2 birds one stone!
Oohhh. Damn that was a bad/good one. I don't know if I should laugh or facepalm. :rofl: :-o
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Bears Whiskey Nut
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:43 am

I wouldn't trade him, and here's why. The chances of going out and drafting a RB, with Howard's vision and zone running ability, somewhere in the 5th round again are about slim and none. The best teams in the league are well balanced and keep the defense on their toes. I love Cohen, but he is a gadget. He is best utilized out of the backfield on wheel routes and screens. He can run, but not in order to soften up a defensive line. Howard is a zone running back, that runs downhill, and over defenders. In the right scheme, he eats up 4-7 yards a play without breaking a sweat. He may not be able to take one to the house, but let me ask you this;

If he breaks off a 25 yard run, and gets caught. How is that any different than Robinson catching a 25 yard pass and getting run out of bounds or tackled? Both are big chunk plays, that make the defense have to account for someone.

I don't care that when he breaks free and gets into the open field that he can't take it to the house. I care that he CAN break free, and balances out the offense. Much more so than Cohen ever could. I also believe that Nagy can rework the offense to make zone blocking the primary running scheme. Additionally he is still on his rookie deal next year, and we need the cap space.
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wab
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:48 am

Even if the Bears do keep him for one more season, I just don't see any way the extend him. So if someone come calling with a 2nd round pick in a draft where the Bears don't pick until the low 80's...why shouldn't they take it? Especially if he's just going to walk later.

It's not a great FA class...but there are guys out there that fit this offense. Mike Davis, Tevin Coleman, Corey Grant. It's clear this offense is going to feature Cohen.

I guess I just really like Howard and feel he deserves to be on a team that won't waste him.
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Mikefive
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:37 am

I really agree with this...
Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:... The best teams in the league are well balanced and keep the defense on their toes. I love Cohen, but he is a gadget. He is best utilized out of the backfield on wheel routes and screens. He can run, but not in order to soften up a defensive line. Howard is a zone running back, that runs downhill, and over defenders. In the right scheme, he eats up 4-7 yards a play without breaking a sweat. He may not be able to take one to the house, but let me ask you this;

If he breaks off a 25 yard run, and gets caught. How is that any different than Robinson catching a 25 yard pass and getting run out of bounds or tackled? Both are big chunk plays, that make the defense have to account for someone.

I don't care that when he breaks free and gets into the open field that he can't take it to the house. I care that he CAN break free, and balances out the offense. Much more so than Cohen ever could. I also believe that Nagy can rework the offense to make zone blocking the primary running scheme. Additionally he is still on his rookie deal next year, and we need the cap space.
But I'm also on board here...
wab wrote:Even if the Bears do keep him for one more season, I just don't see any way the extend him. So if someone come calling with a 2nd round pick in a draft where the Bears don't pick until the low 80's...why shouldn't they take it? Especially if he's just going to walk later......

I guess I just really like Howard and feel he deserves to be on a team that won't waste him.
But I think the Bears would be more OK with drafting his replacement in 2020 when they have more draft capital.
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BR0D1E86
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How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:48 pm

I don’t know the Comp pick rules, but aren’t we probably going to get one when he leaves anyway? If so it lessens the reasoning to trade him.
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wab
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:01 pm

BR0D1E86 wrote:I don’t know the Comp pick rules, but aren’t we probably going to get one when he leaves anyway? If so it lessens the reasoning to trade him.
Yes, the bears would likely get one. But it depends on a variety of factors. Essentially if the players you lose play more snaps than the players you gain, the higher your compensatory picks become. The highest pick you can gain in the system is a third-rounder, and it comes at the end of the round (after the 96th pick).

So for reference, the highest comp pick last year was the 97th overall pick that the Cardinals got for losing Calais Cambell, D.J. Swearinger and Tony Jefferson.

I'd rather not leave it up to that.
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How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:30 pm

wab wrote:
BR0D1E86 wrote:I don’t know the Comp pick rules, but aren’t we probably going to get one when he leaves anyway? If so it lessens the reasoning to trade him.
Yes, the bears would likely get one. But it depends on a variety of factors. Essentially if the players you lose play more snaps than the players you gain, the higher your compensatory picks become. The highest pick you can gain in the system is a third-rounder, and it comes at the end of the round (after the 96th pick).

So for reference, the highest comp pick last year was the 97th overall pick that the Cardinals got for losing Calais Cambell, D.J. Swearinger and Tony Jefferson.

I'd rather not leave it up to that.
So I guess with that my bargain basement price would be a third. But even then, it depends on what Nagy is going to do. If he’s going to run zone blocking, I’m keeping Howard and letting him run for 1000 yards, then waiting on the comp pick.

If that was a flash in the pan and he’s not going to do it consistently, go ahead and trade him if there’s at least a third out there.
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Z Bear
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:25 pm

wab wrote:Yes, the bears would likely get one. But it depends on a variety of factors. Essentially if the players you lose play more snaps than the players you gain, the higher your compensatory picks become. The highest pick you can gain in the system is a third-rounder, and it comes at the end of the round (after the 96th pick).

So for reference, the highest comp pick last year was the 97th overall pick that the Cardinals got for losing Calais Cambell, D.J. Swearinger and Tony Jefferson.
I'd rather not leave it up to that.
The new average per year of the contract is the main determining factor in comp picks. Then you apply a factor to the money based off playing time, and then another factor for post season awards. Once you get an adjusted number per year for all free agents, they are ranked into tiers (3rd round, 4th round, etc.) If the Bears lose a 3rd round tier player to another team and we do not sign a 3rd round tier player we would get a 3rd round comp. We will not sign any tier 3 players this offseason and could possible lose Massie, Amos, Lynch, or Callahan to someone else. Any of those 4 would probably get us a 3rd rounder (was about $5M per year last year before the factors were applied). Below is a good explanation of it.

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/
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bearsfaninaz
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:26 pm

If Howard just had one more gear to him he'd be great in this offense. He's just a few steps to slow. Love him, but if we could find a more forte type back in draft you get him. I'd keep Howard on team though unless get a 4th or higher. As long as Mizzell is off the dam team that all I care about.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:34 pm

I have mixed feelings, but if you could get an early third, then trade down to later in the round while picking up some other late picks I think you almost have too.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:35 pm

bearsfaninaz wrote:If Howard just had one more gear to him he'd be great in this offense. He's just a few steps to slow. Love him, but if we could find a more forte type back in draft you get him. I'd keep Howard on team though unless get a 4th or higher. As long as Mizzell is off the dam team that all I care about.
Why does it matter if he has another gear? A 25 yard gain is a 25 yard gain, through the air or on the ground. They are both great chunk plays.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:51 pm

I think we should keep him and probably let him walk after next year. Good running backs that you can control for up to 5 years are often drafted in rounds 4-5. With the salary for drafted players being what it is why should a team invest 7-8 mil on Jordan and give up a high draft choice-thus I voted round 6. Secondly the salary scale for running backs has been historically low. Bell will somewhat determine what the market rate is for this position. Most clubs I think would rather wait to see how the market plays out before trading draft capital this year.
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G08
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:17 am

I like him, a lot, but I still want a more dynamic back as our bell-cow.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:21 am

Z Bear wrote:
wab wrote:Yes, the bears would likely get one. But it depends on a variety of factors. Essentially if the players you lose play more snaps than the players you gain, the higher your compensatory picks become. The highest pick you can gain in the system is a third-rounder, and it comes at the end of the round (after the 96th pick).

So for reference, the highest comp pick last year was the 97th overall pick that the Cardinals got for losing Calais Cambell, D.J. Swearinger and Tony Jefferson.
I'd rather not leave it up to that.
The new average per year of the contract is the main determining factor in comp picks. Then you apply a factor to the money based off playing time, and then another factor for post season awards. Once you get an adjusted number per year for all free agents, they are ranked into tiers (3rd round, 4th round, etc.) If the Bears lose a 3rd round tier player to another team and we do not sign a 3rd round tier player we would get a 3rd round comp. We will not sign any tier 3 players this offseason and could possible lose Massie, Amos, Lynch, or Callahan to someone else. Any of those 4 would probably get us a 3rd rounder (was about $5M per year last year before the factors were applied). Below is a good explanation of it.

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/
Very interesting. Thanks for posting that.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:26 am

Well to fully answer this question I would have to know do they scheme for him the way they did late in the season? He is a valuable resource when used properly. The argument that its easy to trade him for a 3rd and then grab a kid in the draft doesnt make sense to me. If its so easy to find a Howard in the draft why wouldnt the other team find him in the draft and control his contract for 4 to 5 years?

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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:47 pm

Green Bay has needed a solid RB for years now. Don't let him walk. I'd hate to see him twice a year in a green and piss-yellow jersey.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:46 pm

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
bearsfaninaz wrote:If Howard just had one more gear to him he'd be great in this offense. He's just a few steps to slow. Love him, but if we could find a more forte type back in draft you get him. I'd keep Howard on team though unless get a 4th or higher. As long as Mizzell is off the dam team that all I care about.
Why does it matter if he has another gear? A 25 yard gain is a 25 yard gain, through the air or on the ground. They are both great chunk plays.
Because that other gear turns a 25 yard run into a TD. He's not a threat at all in the passing game and we need that added dimension.
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The Marshall Plan
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:47 pm

AZ_Bearfan wrote:Green Bay has needed a solid RB for years now. Don't let him walk. I'd hate to see him twice a year in a green and piss-yellow jersey.
I'm not trying to be negative on Jordan Howard because I do like him, but if he went to GB their offense would be easier to predict. If he's in the game, its a run and odds are he's not getting targeted on a pass.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 6:56 pm

All of this almost makes me want to see a trade, just to show how terrible an idea it was. The core problem will remain Nagy's pass-happy A.D.D. You can put the second coming of Tony Dorsett back there, but if your coach can't find a clue to use his talents, they don't matter. Say what you want about speed (and #34 was never the fastest guys in the world), Howard is a grinder and there's something to be said about that when the flash and dash gets figured out. Philly proved that they had the Cohen matrix figured for most of the game and absent the late discovery of the double-move by Robinson, Nagy was without a strong alternative route. Also, the way Nagy likes to pass, you better have a back who can put a hat on a linebacker, when one breaks through the way Howard does consistently. Despite all the talk of physical attributes, the guy is a top-six running back in this league who beat out Jeremy Langford and Kadeem Carey, that Nagy routinely chucked aside to put Mizzell and Cunningham on the field. If that makes any kind of sense to anyone, I say trade the guy to some team that recognizes his value and abilities.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:59 pm

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southdakbearfan
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:31 pm

Dardango wrote:All of this almost makes me want to see a trade, just to show how terrible an idea it was. The core problem will remain Nagy's pass-happy A.D.D. You can put the second coming of Tony Dorsett back there, but if your coach can't find a clue to use his talents, they don't matter. Say what you want about speed (and #34 was never the fastest guys in the world), Howard is a grinder and there's something to be said about that when the flash and dash gets figured out. Philly proved that they had the Cohen matrix figured for most of the game and absent the late discovery of the double-move by Robinson, Nagy was without a strong alternative route. Also, the way Nagy likes to pass, you better have a back who can put a hat on a linebacker, when one breaks through the way Howard does consistently. Despite all the talk of physical attributes, the guy is a top-six running back in this league who beat out Jeremy Langford and Kadeem Carey, that Nagy routinely chucked aside to put Mizzell and Cunningham on the field. If that makes any kind of sense to anyone, I say trade the guy to some team that recognizes his value and abilities.
But, if that's the way they are going to use a back, why wouldn't you trade him if you needed picks? Just saying.

I love howard and I think he is vital. I just don't know if Nagy thinks that way and I also believe he would like a main back that is a little more fluid catching out of the backfield and explosive.
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Atkins&Rebel
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:15 pm

If Nagy committed to the run, I'd want to not only keep Howard, but also extend him now for 3-4 more years.

Nagy's use of RB's show his philosophy towards running in general. We know that Mizzell shouldn't touch the ball but he's in there when Howard or Cohen would be much better suited to the various plays that Mizzel sees action in. If Nagy truly wants a committee, then Howard is being wasted and will leave when he has the chance so I'd jump at the chance to get a pick in the 2-3 range for him this year.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:51 am

The Marshall Plan wrote:I'm not trying to be negative on Jordan Howard because I do like him, but if he went to GB their offense would be easier to predict. If he's in the game, its a run and odds are he's not getting targeted on a pass.
Yeah, that's probably more realistic. I just feel like a pounder would open up the play action game for Erin and I really don't want to see that.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:13 pm

Keep him since there is no need to trade to him. Nagy just needs to learn how to be more committed to the running the ball with Howard. In other quit getting cute by bringing Mizzell in to try and confuse peeps. Let Howard run to the outside so peeps don't crash the box everytime he gets the damn ball.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:00 am

Jason La Confora is reporting that Pace is actively shopping Howard at the combine
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:36 am

I trust pace. If he trades him and gets a replacement via draft pick like a 3rd or 4th I am fine with it.
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wab
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:00 am

Jason La Confora is literally the worst source for Bears related news.
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Re: How much is Jordan Howard worth to you?

Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:04 am

I think Howard can still be an effective functioning piece of this offense even if his role changes from the traditional one he is used to ... and for that reason, I voted not to trade him

but if Nagy and Pace think otherwise, I of course would not argue that, and would expect them to get the most for him they could in a trade ... out of respect for Howard, it would be nice if he does leave to get sent to where he can flourish rather than just dumping him
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