Amos or Callahan?

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DaSuperfan
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:41 pm

I'd like to bring back Amos, if possible - but his price tag will obviously be the key factor. Callahan can't ever seem to stay healthy and Amos is the epitome of durability. I love Callahan and what he's grown into, but his health has been an issue every season. I don't think you can fully rely on him to start week in and week out.

This is going to come down to dollars though - I don't think the Bears can afford to bring back Amos at the money he's going to command.
Last edited by DaSuperfan on Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wab
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:01 pm

Bryce is a nice player and a feel-good story...but lets not go crazy for a guy that has 4 INTs, one forced fumble, and has never played a full season in 4 years....as a sub player.
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Bearfacts
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:53 pm

Some great posts here.

Keep 'em coming because both of these guys should now be "on deck" as far as contract negotiations and you know how it works around Halas Hall. We won't hear much until a deal is done like it was with Massie or until we're on the brink of FA in March.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:20 pm

More food for thought.


Chicago Bears Keep or Pass: Bryce Callahan

by Parker Hurley 6 hours ago Follow @parkerhurley

https://beargoggleson.com/2019/01/29/de ... -callahan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Should the Chicago Bears keep Bryce Callahan or let him walk via free agency?

With Bobby Massie signed the only debate Chicago Bears have for the time being is Adrian Amos vs. Bryce Callahan. The Chicago Bears are likely to bring one back at most at this point, and there are fair points on both sides.

After recently breaking down the decision on Adrian Amos as well as free agent names we focus on Bryce Callahan today. Should the Chicago Bears keep him or let him walk?


Keep

Bryce Callahan broke out in 2017, but had the best year of his career in 2018. He was strong in coverage, as a blitzed and against the run.

He allowed 8.2 yards per target in coverage beating his 10.1 career high. He had eight hurries this year and nine in his career which led to two sacks, a career high as well.

On top of that, the question is who is going to replace Callahan? With Adrian Amos even if they do not add a free agent they could bump up Deon Bush and pay a depth safety.

For the Bears they have Sherick McManis, a career special teamer. That is no slight to McManis who was fantastic in the NFC Wild Card loss. However, he did allow the game winning interception. Kevin Toliver is an option but outside and slot are different beasts and Toliver is typically an outside corner.

The Bears would have to upgrade from Callahan if they lost out on him.


Pass

Ryan Pace has never seemed to show faith in him. The two seasons before 2018 Callahan had to fight and claw for playing time and beat out Cre’Von LeBlanc in camp on 2017 to solidify his job.

After a surprisingly strong 2017 many thought it was time for Pace to pay his due and sign Callahan before a breakout year came. Ryan Pace gave Callahan the lowest tender and wound up being right in his opinion that Callahan would not have a market.

Still, Callahan showed up motivated in camp and put together a performance that may have you thinking the team should extend him before the big year. Still, they were confident in heading into 2018 with him as a free agent.

Yes, he played the best year of his career. He also finished the year on the IR. Ryan Pace saw him as a UDFA and got two or three years of quality play. Does he think he squeezed all of the juice out of the orange?

On top of that, while Amos has a clear backup, the Bears did fare fine without Callahan as well. They allowed a 39.5% run success rate with him and a 40.7% success rate without him. They allow a 47.6% pass success rate with I’m and 46.5% without him. That sample is 468 snaps without him and 658 snaps with him.

Would the Bears want to offer him another one-year deal? Is the market going to be what he thinks it will be?
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 4:28 pm

I don't know how the Bears can get to an agreement with these guys without letting them hit the market. Yes, by PFF grades these two perform well. And it obvious watching them play that these guys both do their jobs well when they are on the field. Neither is also a game changer. Maybe there is a team that loves one of team? Nobody was willing to test what the Bears would pay Callahan last season even though there were Bears fans upset Pace didn't place a higher tender on him thinking teams would come after him. Callahan is still what he was last year an effective player, but also a tiny and injury prone one. Teams also don't usually get excited about paying strong safeties with average size, average range, and three career interceptions.

This is the first real chance for these guys to get paid. This isn't Massie signing his third contract. So the agents aren't going to be looking to take a discount. Hopefully it turns out to be a soft market and the Bears can bring back one or both at a reasonable cost. If not then so be it.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:29 pm

You guys are persuading me on Amos, who I love on the field, but don't know if we can afford him. If Callahan comes notably cheaper, that makes a difference when we're low on cap space. But maybe the bottom line is... What does Pagano want for those spots? Is Callahan too small for his liking? Or does his blitz savvy appeal to him? Have we ever seen Amos blitz?
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 7:20 pm

wab wrote:
VA_Mountain_Bear wrote:If forced to choose, I think I'd take Callahan assuming he is recovering well. It's easier to find a consistent SS than a nickle.
Not for the Bears though. It's the opposite. Demontre Hurst, Jacoby Glenn, Bryce Callahan, Crevon LeBlanc, and Sherrick McManis have all had success in the nickle.

But how long has this team been looking for a consistent pair of safeties?

Mike Brown, Kevin Payne, Adam Archuletta, Danieal Manning, Al Afalava, Chris Harris, Major Wright, Ryan Mundy, Chris Conte, Antrel Rolle.

In the last 18 years the Bears have had the same starting safeties for back to back seasons twice. TWO times. Mike Brown and Tony Parrish in 2000/2001 and Chris Conte/Major Wright from 2011-2013.

Do you really want to go back to the revolving door back there? Jackson and Amos have the chance to be special together.


I'd rather find a nickle.

This is a great post
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:46 pm

When it comes to the back end of the defense I trust Jackson, Fuller and Prince.

Amos has proven a solid tackle, solid safety. Ok with a moderate offer but feel he is probably replaceable with Bush as he didn't look lost out there when he played.

Callahan has proven he can cover when the bears have an excellent pass rush. I am hesitant for them to throw even moderate money at a player that had a "breakout" year on the back end of the defense when they had the most consistent pass rush in the nfl and probably best overall talent around him top to bottom. Plus he is oft injured. I didn't see a drop off in the defense and the metrics say the same when a career special teams player was on the field in his place.

How many past safeties and 3rd corners would have looked really good behind the rest of this defense that looked like complete crap in a defense with limited pass rush and talent around them.

I trust in pace though, if he decides they are important enough to throw some money at, I am all good.

If they do get deals I am hoping it is deals they can get out of with minimal impact in the not too distant future when some of the other studs like Jackson, Whitehair and others come due or there will be some real hard choices then.
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Bearfacts
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:15 am

sturf wrote:I don't know how the Bears can get to an agreement with these guys without letting them hit the market. Yes, by PFF grades these two perform well. And it obvious watching them play that these guys both do their jobs well when they are on the field. Neither is also a game changer. Maybe there is a team that loves one of team? Nobody was willing to test what the Bears would pay Callahan last season even though there were Bears fans upset Pace didn't place a higher tender on him thinking teams would come after him. Callahan is still what he was last year an effective player, but also a tiny and injury prone one. Teams also don't usually get excited about paying strong safeties with average size, average range, and three career interceptions.

This is the first real chance for these guys to get paid. This isn't Massie signing his third contract. So the agents aren't going to be looking to take a discount. Hopefully it turns out to be a soft market and the Bears can bring back one or both at a reasonable cost. If not then so be it.
I think you've made a good point here and we should know soon enough what Pace's intentions are.

IMHO Massie was a go or no go decision that had to be made one way or the other. We draft far too late to be assured of a starting caliber OT and few if any available UFA would be any better or cheaper than Massie so if HH felt Coward wasn't ready to take over yet Massie was the only logical solution.

DBs are easier to find as evidenced by where we found Amos and Callahan. They won't be easy to replace but also not impossible. My guess is Pace will speak with their agents if he hasn't already to get a sense for what they're looking for in the way of a deal or at least that's how I would approach it.

Then I'm guessing he may want to look at some of the draftees at the Combine and also review some of the vet UFAs they feel may be available before deciding where to go from there. Unless one or both are willing to sign a very cap friendly deal now allowing the market to set their value may be the wisest move.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:47 am

wab wrote:
VA_Mountain_Bear wrote:If forced to choose, I think I'd take Callahan assuming he is recovering well. It's easier to find a consistent SS than a nickle.
Not for the Bears though. It's the opposite. Demontre Hurst, Jacoby Glenn, Bryce Callahan, Crevon LeBlanc, and Sherrick McManis have all had success in the nickle.

But how long has this team been looking for a consistent pair of safeties?

Mike Brown, Kevin Payne, Adam Archuletta, Danieal Manning, Al Afalava, Chris Harris, Major Wright, Ryan Mundy, Chris Conte, Antrel Rolle.

In the last 18 years the Bears have had the same starting safeties for back to back seasons twice. TWO times. Mike Brown and Tony Parrish in 2000/2001 and Chris Conte/Major Wright from 2011-2013.

Do you really want to go back to the revolving door back there? Jackson and Amos have the chance to be special together.

I'd rather find a nickle.
Decent points on the history of the position for us. McManis did step up his game when needed, but uncertain if we can count on him going forwards. Hopefully we can sign both dbs.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:13 am

Callahan was arguably our best cover guy, Fuller included. This is a no brainer for me, keep Callahan. SS is an easy replacement, and we already have Bush ready to go.

To whoever thinks NB is an easy replace, just listing guys who ran the nickle before doesn't mean they were any good at it. Callahan was one of the best in the league.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:45 am

I would rather have Callahan than Kyle Long. Not saying Callahan should be paid $8M / year or so, but my point is that solidifying the defensive side of the ball should be the priority. We can draft an OG. We're also gonna need to figure out how to pay Eddie Jackson coming up in a couple years. That's the Dion Sims money right there. Eddie Jackson should not even be allowed to go near free agency. Our defense is such a team effort which says a lot given that we have individual stars like Mack and Hicks, but Jackson is the key to that whole secondary.

If I can only keep one I keep Callahan. Playing alongside Eddie Jackson will make the other safety better.

I'm not too concerned about Amos. We can move Bush up and draft a guy.
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wab
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:53 am

dplank wrote:Callahan was arguably our best cover guy, Fuller included. This is a no brainer for me, keep Callahan. SS is an easy replacement, and we already have Bush ready to go.

To whoever thinks NB is an easy replace, just listing guys who ran the nickle before doesn't mean they were any good at it. Callahan was one of the best in the league.
4 picks in 4 years and injured every year. Callahan is a nice player, but those other guys were successful.

Hardly ANY of those safeties were back there for more than a year.
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Bearfacts
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:22 pm

Another indication Callahan's bargaining position may be strengthened. PFF ranks him as the 2nd best UFA CB.

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/ ... all-focus/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for McManis I would consider him as a potential fallback solution for 2019 if Callahan can't be re-signed or replaced by a younger player but McManis is 31 years old, not quite as good, and surely not a long term solution.

So without Callahan we're either gonna be drafting for a Slot CB or looking for a cheaper vet UFA. I'm gonna rule Tolliver out because I see him strictly as an edge guy without the physical tools or savvy to play Slot CB. JMHO
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dplank
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 1:59 pm

I like McManis, he's a good guy to have on your team. He's kinda like Bellamy to me, good ST player, can plug in if needed and do a decent job, and has a high motor/excellent work ethic.

That said, McManis is a backup calibre player. We should not settle for him in a starting role (NB is a starting role in the modern NFL).
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wab
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:06 pm

Except he proved he could hold down the nickle job just fine...

Granted, he's not a long term solution at 31 years old. But if he can hold down the job for a year while John Franklin or Micheal Joseph or Jonathan Mincy or Marcus Williams or a rookie develops... then I'd rather pay him the 1.6 million he's due next year to do it over paying him that plus the 3-4 million for Callahan to do it for maybe 9 games before getting hurt.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 3:08 pm

wab wrote:
dplank wrote:Callahan was arguably our best cover guy, Fuller included. This is a no brainer for me, keep Callahan. SS is an easy replacement, and we already have Bush ready to go.

To whoever thinks NB is an easy replace, just listing guys who ran the nickle before doesn't mean they were any good at it. Callahan was one of the best in the league.
4 picks in 4 years and injured every year. Callahan is a nice player, but those other guys were successful.

Hardly ANY of those safeties were back there for more than a year.

Interceptions are not a tell all for DB’s. Callahan can simple lock down slot receivers. This is huge for how much the bears were in the nickel. You do have a point about how frequent he is injured. I see that as a bargaining point for Pace. If you watch film on McManis he is the weakest link (without a doubt) when he’s on the field, his hips are stiff and he is beat more times than not. He did fill in nicely but I don’t think he is a week in and week out starter.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Wed Jan 30, 2019 8:20 pm

Funkster wrote:
wab wrote:
dplank wrote:Callahan was arguably our best cover guy, Fuller included. This is a no brainer for me, keep Callahan. SS is an easy replacement, and we already have Bush ready to go.

To whoever thinks NB is an easy replace, just listing guys who ran the nickle before doesn't mean they were any good at it. Callahan was one of the best in the league.
4 picks in 4 years and injured every year. Callahan is a nice player, but those other guys were successful.

Hardly ANY of those safeties were back there for more than a year.

Interceptions are not a tell all for DB’s. Callahan can simple lock down slot receivers. This is huge for how much the bears were in the nickel. You do have a point about how frequent he is injured. I see that as a bargaining point for Pace. If you watch film on McManis he is the weakest link (without a doubt) when he’s on the field, his hips are stiff and he is beat more times than not. He did fill in nicely but I don’t think he is a week in and week out starter.
But they actually allowed a lower success rate on passes with Callahan out vs him being in?
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Bearfacts
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Thu Jan 31, 2019 1:42 am

Just a little more data as food for thought.

FWIW Spotrac pegs the overall value of a Callahan deal @ $28 mil over 4 years/$7 mil apy.

Despite his injuries he's highly rated as an effective playmaker and this isn't far off what I estimated either.

I've looked over some of the vet UFA CBs and to be honest I don't see anyone even near Callahan's skill level as a Slot CB who'll be getting any less so Pace may have a tough decision to make here. $7 mil may well be his market value just as $14 mil was Fullers.

In this case what I'd offer is a smaller signing bonus with a significant amount of guaranteed money based on per game roster bonuses and incentive bonuses like a Pro Bowl. The per game bonuses help two ways. The first is a hedge against Callahan's lost starts and the second is a portion will need to be earned and not charged to his 2019 cap lowering that.

On top of all of this we're probably looking at Amos looking for similar kind of money.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:59 am

we gota keep Smash... He makes plays. He breaks people. And he's never missed a game right?
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Sat Feb 02, 2019 11:09 am

Probably neither.

The Bears are pretty much out of wiggle room, unless they start whacking 1-2 expensive guys (unexpected ones, not "cut Sims, that frees up enough for every move we want to make") or a slew of modest priced guys to replace with minimum salary fodder.

Maybe Callhan, if his injuries drive the price down.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Sun Feb 03, 2019 7:22 pm

How does everyone feel about the Longneck the Red smokescreen now?
"I wouldn't take him for a conditional 7th. His next contract will pay him more than he could possibly contribute.".

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wab
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:50 am

C'mon guys... you are waaaaaay too hung up on the cap. The Bears aren't in a bad position and if they want to keep players, they will find a way. Every team does.
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Z Bear
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:19 am

The Bears now have the highest paid defensive player in the league and other not so cheap guys in Hicks, Goldman, Trevathan, Fuller, Amukamara, Roquan, and Floyd. Even the bottom of the roster UDFAs now cost close to $500k a year, you have to mind the cap now if you want to retain Trubisky, Cohen and Jackson long term. It's the price of success.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:04 am

FWIW; Super Bowl 53 shows importance of Bryce Callahan to Bears defense

https://bearswire.usatoday.com/2019/02/ ... -callahan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Los Angeles needed someone they could stick on Edelman who could keep up with him one-on-one in man coverage, like Bryce Callahan.

Image
(GIF via NFL Game Pass).

Callahan led all slot cornerbacks with only 0.69 yards allowed per snap in coverage, according to PFF, and he’s slated to be an unrestricted free agent when the new league year starts in March.


In the Super Bowl, Edelman picked up 93 of his yards from the slot, while Jared Goff completed nine passes for 114 yards to slot.

The slot cornerback position has become one of the most valuable positions on defense in the modern NFL, and Callahan was one of the league’s best in 2018.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:42 pm

I would say on the list of reasons why the rams lost the defense came in about last.
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Fri Feb 08, 2019 3:43 pm

wab wrote:C'mon guys... you are waaaaaay too hung up on the cap. The Bears aren't in a bad position and if they want to keep players, they will find a way. Every team does.
Except for the ones that don't, like the Saints, who have wasted most of Brees' career with poor cap management...
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 10:15 am

How about neither and use the money to sign Hunt and pick up two comp picks in 2020?
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:32 pm

SC Bear wrote:How about neither and use the money to sign Hunt and pick up two comp picks in 2020?
Hunt just got signed to Cleveland.
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wab
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Re: Amos or Callahan?

Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:56 pm

The Panthers have re-signed safety Eric Reid through the 2021 campaign, the club announced today. Reid’s new three-year deal is worth more than $22MM, and contains incentives that could raise the total value of $24MM, according to Mike Silver of NFL.com.
I don't know what this does to negotiations with Amos, but it's a starting point.

I'd imagine he's going to want to be in the top 10 highest paid at his position...which will be at least 35mil over 5 years (7-ish mil per on average) with about 15 guaranteed.

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