Chuck Pagano talk

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Mikefive
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Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 9:48 am

Another offseason dead zone discussion...

The following is pasted from Wikipedia's Chuck Pagano entry pre-Indy head coaching job...
In 2001, Pagano joined Davis in the NFL as secondary coach for the Cleveland Browns. In 2003, he helped the Browns tie a franchise record for the fewest passing touchdowns allowed with 13. In 2001, the secondary accounted for 28 of the Browns' NFL-high 33 interceptions, and, in the same season, rookie cornerback Anthony Henry led the league with ten interceptions.
After leaving Cleveland in 2004, Pagano spent two seasons as the defensive backs coach of the Oakland Raiders. In 2006, the Raiders allowed just 151 passing yards per game and 285 total yards per game. This ranked them first and third in the league, respectively.
Pagano was named to John Harbaugh's initial coaching staff with the Baltimore Ravens on February 12, 2008.[3] He served as defensive secondary coach for three seasons. He was promoted to Defensive Coordinator on January 18, 2011, succeeding Greg Mattison who accepted a similar position at the University of Michigan.[4] That year, Pagano's defense finished 3rd in both points allowed and in yards allowed. They finished 13 in takeaways and 2nd Rush yards allowed, but Baltimore's defense has always been known for its ability to stop the run. Pagano drastically improved the pass defense going from 21st in passing yards allowed to 4th. They improved from 9th in passing touchdowns allowed to 1st in the league. The defense also came away with 17 interceptions. Pagano is known for his ability in secondary and ability to stop opposing teams pass attack.
I know there was some discussion of this when he was hired, but does anybody feel like having a guy with only one year of DC experience could be a problem? It is a curious factor that he has so little DC experience, yet replaces maybe the most tenured DC in the league. Along the same line, last year's coordinator was renowned for his creativity in getting to the passer and this year's has arguably almost no experience working in that area.

Obviously, it appears that he should be a boon for the DBs, particularly our rather experienced group. But at the same time, he's really going to be leaning on his front 7 coaches, since that's not his area. That those front 7 guys have a reasonably amount of experience should help.

Discuss.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 10:08 am

Didn't Nagy only have a hand full of games that he called plays in KC? He had less experience calling plays than Pagano and he's done a great job so far and only will get better with more experience. Pagano was a HC candidate because of his coaching just like Nagy so I wouldn't be too worried...

His style as I've read since we hired him is more aggressive than Fangio and will bring different positions in on the blitz. With him being a great DB coach he should be able to make our DBs even better so they can handle a little extra one on one pressure with more people blitzing.

I think on paper he is a perfect fit because there's one thing I didn't like about Fangio and that was that he didn't blitz enough IMO and could have been more creative when doing so. With this roster, I find it really hard to believe we take a step backward like a lot of NFL pundits are saying. They are stacked in every position with excellent depth. So long as Pagano doesn't try rewriting the book (which he said he isn't) it should be a relatively seamless transition.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 10:09 am

I think Pagano will be a quality replacement for Fangio, and seems to fit much better into Nagy's umbrella of coaches. Fangio is on a different level and would've likely been the better short-term coach to lead our defense toward a championship, but Pagano is no slouch.

His destiny as a Bears coach falls more in the realm of how he plays chess against opposing offenses in perhaps the most offense-centric era in NFL history.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 10:49 am

What I think will be interesting (and maybe really fun) to see is how he orchestrates his more aggressive blitz schemes in concert with his superior DB coaching of a group of experienced and capable guys. The "when we call this blitz, adjust your coverage to attack this coverage area because the ball is coming out quicker and under duress" kind of combination calls will be potentially super exciting, leading to big plays.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 12:05 pm

I don't doubt that Pagano can be a leader and get players to buy in. He's probably a more natural fit in the culture Nagy is creating, butt in game coaching and game planning was the area that I thought Pagano might be a step back from Fangio. Fangio might be old school, but he also studied statistics and tendencies. Fangio was a very disciplined and rigorous thinker, which you don't always get especially with defensive coaches. I hope there is a thinker behind Pagano's slogans.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 12:48 pm

Pagano is a good coach and has been pretty successful at every stop. He had a brutal defensive roster his last 3 years in Indy littered with aging vets and fringe players.

He inherits one of the 3 or 4 most talented defensive rosters in the NFL. His aggressive style and personality suits the Bears roster very well. He's great at designing mismatches and bringing the blitz from unconventional angles/places. Fangio wasn't super creative, and I think that was one of the things people wished he was. His defenses were always extremely fundamentally sound. Everyone generally did their job perfectly and were in the right position more often than not. That was Fangio's hallmark, OC's couldn't get one over on him because of the preparedness. I think where Pagano will succeed is similar to the way Nagy succeeds. Creativity and mismatches. I don't see the fundamental discipline going away - at least not to a level that's detrimental.

I loved Fangio and didn't want to see him leave, but I don't know if the Bears could have gotten a better replacement.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 4:46 pm

I think I could coach that unit to a top 10 defense with a playbook of finger paintings.

Chuck should be a good option.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 5:11 pm

I appreciate Fangio in the role he took reshaping the defensive roster.
we now have a much better game day coach, and I am very excited for the upcoming season.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 6:47 pm

wab wrote:Pagano is a good coach and has been pretty successful at every stop. He had a brutal defensive roster his last 3 years in Indy littered with aging vets and fringe players.

He inherits one of the 3 or 4 most talented defensive rosters in the NFL. His aggressive style and personality suits the Bears roster very well. He's great at designing mismatches and bringing the blitz from unconventional angles/places. Fangio wasn't super creative, and I think that was one of the things people wished he was. His defenses were always extremely fundamentally sound. Everyone generally did their job perfectly and were in the right position more often than not. That was Fangio's hallmark, OC's couldn't get one over on him because of the preparedness. I think where Pagano will succeed is similar to the way Nagy succeeds. Creativity and mismatches. I don't see the fundamental discipline going away - at least not to a level that's detrimental.

I loved Fangio and didn't want to see him leave, but I don't know if the Bears could have gotten a better replacement.
^ This.

To add my two pennies, I think that Pagano's defense will give up some more big plays but I believe the hope is that it will be off-set with a much better offensive showing. More often than not, his blitzes (hopefully) will get home and we won't be slamming our heads into the wall after another third and long conversion (think: Playoff game).
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed May 22, 2019 8:39 pm

G08 wrote:
wab wrote:Pagano is a good coach and has been pretty successful at every stop. He had a brutal defensive roster his last 3 years in Indy littered with aging vets and fringe players.

He inherits one of the 3 or 4 most talented defensive rosters in the NFL. His aggressive style and personality suits the Bears roster very well. He's great at designing mismatches and bringing the blitz from unconventional angles/places. Fangio wasn't super creative, and I think that was one of the things people wished he was. His defenses were always extremely fundamentally sound. Everyone generally did their job perfectly and were in the right position more often than not. That was Fangio's hallmark, OC's couldn't get one over on him because of the preparedness. I think where Pagano will succeed is similar to the way Nagy succeeds. Creativity and mismatches. I don't see the fundamental discipline going away - at least not to a level that's detrimental.

I loved Fangio and didn't want to see him leave, but I don't know if the Bears could have gotten a better replacement.
^ This.

To add my two pennies, I think that Pagano's defense will give up some more big plays but I believe the hope is that it will be off-set with a much better offensive showing. More often than not, his blitzes (hopefully) will get home and we won't be slamming our heads into the wall after another third and long conversion (think: Playoff game).
Yep. I think there is a chance that there are more big plays, but I also see there being a chance of them being even more dominant being a bit more aggressive vs last season.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu May 23, 2019 8:07 am

What you didn't want to have happen was the Bears to hire a young ambitious LB coach as DC. Someone who wanted to make a name for himself, and set themselves up for a HC position down the line. Someone who was going to make changes, or tinker, in order to prove their own genius to the league.

Pagano has nothing to prove. He is a successful HC and DC. He is a known commodity, with a solid defensive mind. I think it was an excellent choice.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu May 23, 2019 8:16 am

Knuckles wrote: ... His style as I've read since we hired him is more aggressive than Fangio and will bring different positions in on the blitz. With him being a great DB coach he should be able to make our DBs even better so they can handle a little extra one on one pressure with more people blitzing.

I think on paper he is a perfect fit because there's one thing I didn't like about Fangio and that was that he didn't blitz enough IMO and could have been more creative when doing so ...
This is a real key for me. And one that will endear Pagano to the fan base.

We all love to reminisce about the '85 team's defense but what sometimes gets lost is that Tobin's '86 unit was actually statistically better. The difference is that they weren't seen as the same "blitzing bada$$es" as the year before. Tobin advocated much more of a "bend but don't break" style of play.

Chicago fans LIKE to see blitzing -- coming from all over the place. Pagano's philosophy is exactly that. That, paired with the talent level on this team is going to lead to some fun times this year. I think Pagano is going to be beloved in this town before its all over.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu May 23, 2019 11:08 am

If Pagano works out like I'm hoping he does, he can be in Chicago for a nice long time. I love that he's been-there-done-that with head coaching and now just wants to coach some defense and mold some champs. In my perfect world, we get Nagy/Pagano for the next decade and win a bunch of titles.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu May 23, 2019 3:04 pm

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:What you didn't want to have happen was the Bears to hire a young ambitious LB coach as DC. Someone who wanted to make a name for himself, and set themselves up for a HC position down the line. Someone who was going to make changes, or tinker, in order to prove their own genius to the league.

Pagano has nothing to prove. He is a successful HC and DC. He is a known commodity, with a solid defensive mind. I think it was an excellent choice.

This is probably the most important aspect of Pagano if he indeed pans out like we all hope... It's sort of like what we went through with OCs for the past decade at least but more from incompetence (on theirs and the owners/HCs part). Pagano seems content with being a DC and most likely won't leave unless he's fired or retires. That's the same consistency we will have with Nagy and why we all wanted a HC that calls offensive plays just so we know the OC won't take off if he has success and then they have to start from scratch again. That was the most infuriating thing watching the Bears fumble around like amateurs when we had Cutler here and wasting any talent he or the rest of the team had.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu May 23, 2019 5:05 pm

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:What you didn't want to have happen was the Bears to hire a young ambitious LB coach as DC. Someone who wanted to make a name for himself, and set themselves up for a HC position down the line. Someone who was going to make changes, or tinker, in order to prove their own genius to the league.

Pagano has nothing to prove. He is a successful HC and DC. He is a known commodity, with a solid defensive mind. I think it was an excellent choice.
This.

We needed a proven name and we got one. Let Nagy focus on the offense and Pagano on the defense. Between Nagy's specialty and the quality of the defense we have an up-and-comer most likely would've been a disaster.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu May 23, 2019 10:33 pm

AZ_Bearfan wrote:If Pagano works out like I'm hoping he does, he can be in Chicago for a nice long time. I love that he's been-there-done-that with head coaching and now just wants to coach some defense and mold some champs. In my perfect world, we get Nagy/Pagano for the next decade and win a bunch of titles.
Wouldn't that be something?

Pagano admitted when he was a head coach he didn't like all the bullshit that came long with the gig. He said he flat-out missed coaching defense. Well... he's got that here.

If we're lights out for the next few seasons and some team throws $$$ at him to be their head coach... does he scratch that itch again?

I know, I'm getting too far ahead of myself but still...
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:08 am

Sounds like the defense is still in the learning stages of Pagano's scheme, I also read some comments where the said the verbiage is a bit different -- that's fine.

I do think, though, we have to expect that we are not running last year's defense with last year's verbiage as was discussed by the team earlier in the offseason.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:03 pm

More man-to-man coverage's, more dime, more exotic stunts by linemen and more blitzing. I think Pagano leans more towards the 3-4 than Fangio did with his 4-3/3-4 hybrid scheme. I think it's going to be amazing. Slaughterhouse Sundays.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:29 pm

G08 wrote:Sounds like the defense is still in the learning stages of Pagano's scheme, I also read some comments where the said the verbiage is a bit different -- that's fine.

I do think, though, we have to expect that we are not running last year's defense with last year's verbiage as was discussed by the team earlier in the offseason.
I want Pagano to put in whatever defense and terminology he feels is appropriate. The Bears have a grown ass defense full of professionals and players in/entering their prime. Adjusting concepts and learning new terminology should't be a problem.

Don't be Vic Fangio's defense coached by Chuck Pagano. Be Chuck Pagano's defense coached by Chuck Pagano.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:33 pm

wab wrote:
G08 wrote:Sounds like the defense is still in the learning stages of Pagano's scheme, I also read some comments where the said the verbiage is a bit different -- that's fine.

I do think, though, we have to expect that we are not running last year's defense with last year's verbiage as was discussed by the team earlier in the offseason.
I want Pagano to put in whatever defense and terminology he feels is appropriate. The Bears have a grown ass defense full of professionals and players in/entering their prime. Adjusting concepts and learning new terminology should't be a problem.

Don't be Vic Fangio's defense coached by Chuck Pagano. Be Chuck Pagano's defense coached by Chuck Pagano.
In other words...

Be you, Chuck.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:50 pm

wab wrote:
G08 wrote:Sounds like the defense is still in the learning stages of Pagano's scheme, I also read some comments where the said the verbiage is a bit different -- that's fine.

I do think, though, we have to expect that we are not running last year's defense with last year's verbiage as was discussed by the team earlier in the offseason.
I want Pagano to put in whatever defense and terminology he feels is appropriate. The Bears have a grown ass defense full of professionals and players in/entering their prime. Adjusting concepts and learning new terminology should't be a problem.

Don't be Vic Fangio's defense coached by Chuck Pagano. Be Chuck Pagano's defense coached by Chuck Pagano.
This exactly.

Pagano got hired for a reason. Let him coach.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:11 pm

wab wrote:I loved Fangio and didn't want to see him leave, but I don't know if the Bears could have gotten a better replacement.
This is absolutely my sentiment.

It doesn't matter how long you've been a coordinator. Either you're a good coach with an ability to connect with players and get the very best out of them, or you're not. I believe that Pagano is a great football coach, and by mid-season Bears' fans will have forgotten that Fangio left.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:40 pm

The Marshall Plan wrote:
wab wrote:
G08 wrote:Sounds like the defense is still in the learning stages of Pagano's scheme, I also read some comments where the said the verbiage is a bit different -- that's fine.

I do think, though, we have to expect that we are not running last year's defense with last year's verbiage as was discussed by the team earlier in the offseason.
I want Pagano to put in whatever defense and terminology he feels is appropriate. The Bears have a grown ass defense full of professionals and players in/entering their prime. Adjusting concepts and learning new terminology should't be a problem.

Don't be Vic Fangio's defense coached by Chuck Pagano. Be Chuck Pagano's defense coached by Chuck Pagano.
This exactly.

Pagano got hired for a reason. Let him coach.
There is only so many things that can happen in coverage and blitzing. Pagano isn't reinventing the wheel or anything. The things that carry over from last year, He already said he's learning what the team called it last year because one guy learning is easier than 20. The things he's doing different will be new to learn and new guys all have to learn the new 'to them' terminology. This isn't stunting any coaching on pagaon, he's just making it as easy as possible to carry over to his overall scheme. Other than more blitz opportunities from ILB's and DB's, and possibly a few more big plays given up due to us being more agressive, I don't think the causal observer will notice a big difference between 2018 and 2019.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:30 am

Bears Whiskey Nut wrote:
wab wrote:I loved Fangio and didn't want to see him leave, but I don't know if the Bears could have gotten a better replacement.
This is absolutely my sentiment.

It doesn't matter how long you've been a coordinator. Either you're a good coach with an ability to connect with players and get the very best out of them, or you're not. I believe that Pagano is a great football coach, and by mid-season Bears' fans will have forgotten that Fangio left.
And that's the real thing with Pagano. Its not like his system requires us to gut and retool the defense with different types of personnel on the line and with the linebackers. Its gonna be more about whether or not he can lead this defense and if they'll listen to him. I highly doubt either one of those are going to be problems. Pagano has been around serious talent before. He's got credibility. My impression of the locker room is that people like Mack and Hicks are not a negative presence in the slightest. This team also has to be hungry as hell after last season. They'll buy in and there might even be parts of the defense that are better. I'm thinking we're going to see a lot more different types of blitzes and get to the QB from multiple directions with the linebackers and even the secondary. That's going to be a serious upgrade when added onto the pressure our line already creates. We're going to give offenses serious headaches.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:01 am

G08 wrote:Sounds like the defense is still in the learning stages of Pagano's scheme, I also read some comments where the said the verbiage is a bit different -- that's fine.

I do think, though, we have to expect that we are not running last year's defense with last year's verbiage as was discussed by the team earlier in the offseason.
Adding to this... Akiem Hicks said he's at about a 'C' grade in terms of knowing this defense. So let's not get it twisted, this is not the same shit we ran with Vic last year (for better or worse) and there will most definitely be a step back. I hope our offense can pull its weight, especially earlier on in the season, because I'm expecting growing pains.

Plus, even IF our defense come out playing well, I don't expect us to match last season's performance. PFF said it was the best defense in the NFL since 2012.

(oh, and in 2012 it was the Bears also :D)
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:32 am

G08 wrote:
G08 wrote:Sounds like the defense is still in the learning stages of Pagano's scheme, I also read some comments where the said the verbiage is a bit different -- that's fine.

I do think, though, we have to expect that we are not running last year's defense with last year's verbiage as was discussed by the team earlier in the offseason.
Adding to this... Akiem Hicks said he's at about a 'C' grade in terms of knowing this defense. So let's not get it twisted, this is not the same shit we ran with Vic last year (for better or worse) and there will most definitely be a step back. I hope our offense can pull its weight, especially earlier on in the season, because I'm expecting growing pains.

Plus, even IF our defense come out playing well, I don't expect us to match last season's performance. PFF said it was the best defense in the NFL since 2012.

(oh, and in 2012 it was the Bears also :D)
Knowing Hicks, he's playing it conservative. I'll bet he's got the defense pretty well down pat.

As far as year to year. I fully expect the Bears D to be every bit as good this year, as last year. If not better. You've added quality pieces. Mack gets a full TC. Smith isn't holding out, and gets a full TC. It's Nichols second year. Jackson and Dix are previous team mates at Alabama, and will be on the same page. Floyd gets a second year with Mack on the other side.

I read an article that said Floyd learned SO much from Mack in OTA's regarding technique and how to attack the OL. I was roundly criticized when I said that Mack would have a huge impact on Floyd from a technical standpoint. But I think it's happening, and I expect Floyd to have a monster year in 2019.

So many things trending in the right direction.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:04 pm

I love your optimism Whiskey... but last year's defense was fucking good. It's going to be almost impossible to match or top that, IMO.

3rd in total yards allowed

1st in rushing yards allowed

1st in points allowed

1st in interceptions

1st in forced fumbles

1st in PFF's defensive efficiency rankings, best in the past 7 years

etc
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Chuck Pagano talk

Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:39 pm

Almost?

So you’re saying there’s a chance...


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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:16 am

G08 wrote:I love your optimism Whiskey... but last year's defense was fucking good. It's going to be almost impossible to match or top that, IMO.

3rd in total yards allowed

1st in rushing yards allowed

1st in points allowed

1st in interceptions

1st in forced fumbles

1st in PFF's defensive efficiency rankings, best in the past 7 years

etc
I think the strength of schedule will play a bigger role in those ranking declines than switching from Fangio to Pagano. No doubt losing Fangio sucks. However Pagano is no slouch and every now and then you want to switch up schemes so things aren't as predictable. I think what we'll see during the year are articles saying the Bears defense is in decline or some crap, they'll try and blame Pagano and hype up the Fangio angle but the real reason will be strength of schedule. That being said, I still expect our defense to be elite this year and it could still easily be ranked #1. Any issues there are going to be offset with improvements in the offense (Biscuit year 2, etc.) and then like others have already said with Mack and Roquan having full training camps. I also think other teams are going to shit their pants over trying to figure out who to block. You can't double team them all and Pagano is going to use blitzes on top of that. Mack, Hicks, Roquan, and hopefully Floyd. If Floyd gets 10 sacks this year and we avoid injuries, this defense will actually be better than last year's.
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Re: Chuck Pagano talk

Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:01 pm

You'd expect the defence to fall off a little just because of variance but, despite losing Amos and Callahan there are some reasons for optimism, mainly Mack getting a full camp plus Smith and Nichols going into year 2.

The main thing is how much overall talent there is and, most importantly, how many difference makers. Between Mack, Hicks, Jackson we've got someone at each level and the lack of weak links around them means you can't gameplan away from everything.

I love it when our defence is banging!
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